NHTSA probes Toyota Scion moonroof failures
When it rains, it pours... Tuesday was not a good day for Toyota. On top of the recall investigation we reported earlier, The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safey Administration announced that it is investigating problems with the glass moonroof in the Toyota Scion tC model. The NHTSA has received nine reports of the moonroof shattering, with one person slightly injured by falling glass.The Scion tC moonroof has already been the subject of a "special service campaign" for its wind deflector, which can shatter if hit by debris at highway speeds.
[Source: Reuters]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dirk Dundenburg 10:09AM (7/12/2006)
My friends VW Golf did this. It was harmonics caused by driving with the sunroof closed and the windows open just enough to set up the right frequency from the buffeting inside.
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Colby S 10:24AM (7/12/2006)
Then I wonder why the design engineers did not pick up on this during wind tunnel testing and/or material frequency analysis. From an engineering standpoint that type of study should be routine.
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Will 10:26AM (7/12/2006)
I know someone with a tC who always has a problem with the moonroof not closing properly. When attempting to close, the wind deflector in the front does not retract like it is supposed to and the window will bump against it and open back up. You have to put your hand up through the moon roof and pull the wind guard down and then quickly hit the close button.
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Rob Lowe 10:27AM (7/12/2006)
I think it's the thickness of the glass also....the thinner the glass used on the vehicle the lower the cost for Toyota. It's classic American de-contenting
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Will 10:27AM (7/12/2006)
Oh, by the way. It is The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Not Safey.
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judd 10:32AM (7/12/2006)
The Audi A3 open sky may have the same issues too. A thread in www.vwvortex.com was started about the same issue. I didn't want it anyway, but had no choice but to get it.
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Will 10:38AM (7/12/2006)
Rob Lowe - The Scion is made in Japan. Saving on costs is a global thing. Appearently cutting corners is as well.
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TheOne442 11:06AM (7/12/2006)
Another Toyota recall, nobody's perfect.
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Joe 11:23AM (7/12/2006)
I have the tC and it wasn't so much a secret service campaign, the scion boards have been full of us needing to get the laminate that keeps it from shattering... And to the effect, ok 9 have shattered, BFD, if it were 19,000 I would start complaining about quality (maybe 1900.) It still takes a 'Magic Rock' to catch the sunroof deflector while your moving, not exactly a large target...
As for the person that has to physically put down the deflector to close the SR, Is it the mid-close stop that toyota has pre-programmed into the closing of the roof? otherwise maybe they should use their 3yr/ 36k mi bumper to bumper to have that fixed
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Jason Wallace 11:31AM (7/12/2006)
The rear roof panel on my tC failed last year, and Scion said it was definitely from road debris. Oddly, the way the roof broke, it looked like a volcano and there was nobody else on the highway when I was driving. Regardless, Scion said it was "absolutely" an intrusion break. One dealership was basically unwilling to work on it, and the second one sent the car to a bodyshop for the work. SIX weeks later, I had my car back and the roof panel and rear hatch glass had been replaced, and my trunk had been repainted due to debris. My roof now rattles with shards of glass.
It is insulting that Scion's idea of a "fix" is to apply a piece of black tape to the underside of the wind deflector in an effort to keep it from falling on your face when it breaks. This fix wouldn't have done any good in my instance, and I hope Scion gets slapped for this one. They basically refused to help me in any way when I contacted them, and while they were very nice (and apologetic) I'm not a fan of being brushed off.
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Jason Wallace 11:34AM (7/12/2006)
@Joe - nine have been REPORTED shattered to the NHTSA. There have been many more, at least six at the dealership I go to.
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JackOfShadows 12:15PM (7/12/2006)
My, my, my---------most of the time in these blogs I hear the younger generations blasting American quality.
Now it seems as if the Imports have problems too. Wonder if this is just a "human" problem.
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Will 12:18PM (7/12/2006)
No Joe, it was not the mid close stop. I know because I have been in it and had to hold the damn thing down. I also know that it would be fixed under warranty. Stop drinking the Toyota Kool Aid and realize that these are problematic.
Also forgot to mention, I work with a guy who owns a Sienna and he had a recall for the bottom of the door panels being prone to rust. The recall solution: laminate the bottom of the door panel. I wonder if Toyota owns stock in a laminate company.
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KT 12:29PM (7/12/2006)
The deflector thing came up a few months ago and they brushed it off saying it wasn't a design flaw. I didn't realize the fix was a piece of tape. S
Sounds like the way they fixed the problem of not building the Taco to fed regulations..just deactivate the airbag vs. making it the way the regulations say it should be.
If there's a problem with the moonroof I guess they'll just weld sheetmetal over it or disconnect it.
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Ajay 12:36PM (7/12/2006)
Doesnt need a rock to make it shatter. On all of the shattered glasses, there was no point of impact...normally a rock hits something and it cracks that area of the glass and maybe a lil more. This is more like the entire thing shattered into a million pieces.
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Richard Warren 1:50PM (7/12/2006)
Shattered glass, small pieces = Tempered glass
Cracked glass typically windshields = laminate
Keep in mind most moonroof capsules are made by 2 main suppliers worldwide ASC being the largest, they also do many conversions for the manufacturers, like the Toyota Solara Convertible. So in the end it may not be a true "Toyota" problem.
Yep, sunroofs, targa tops, t-tops are problematical.
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verdegrrl 2:17PM (7/12/2006)
I've seen a number of Passats with shattered backlights, and knowing how anal some of the owners were, they didn't do anything to damage the car. However, shatter they did. The same now with some Audi A3s. I think Porsche has reported some issues with the Targa as well. Basically cars with large stressed sunroofs.
I'm guessing a length of chain rested on the glass during shipping at some point (cars stacked), and the motion of transport caused it to bounce on the glass, setting in motion a failure mode that requires temp differential or pressure differential, or perhaps even just a light tap to finally make it shatter. Because the events can be months or more apart, it's hard to put them all together.
BTW, heavier/thicker glass is not always associated with better glass, since creates a higher center of gravity and thick glass may be manufactured as cheaply if not potentially even cheaper than thinner more "fragile" glass which needs extra special handling.
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Ryan 2:55PM (7/12/2006)
@1 - I understand where you are coming from, but it boggles my mind why someone wouldn't atleast tilt up the roof... it improves the airflow thru the car immensely and reduces the wind noise.
@3 - Tell your friend to spray some lubricant on the tracks near the wind deflector rails. A lot of times this'll happen to me when it's hot, and only if the car has been sitting in the sun for a period of time. Once it starts doing this, I just apply a little grease to the rails and all works great.
@12 - I agree it's a human problem, but any company is bound to have it's share of problems with an increased stake in the market place. I'd still love to see the % of vehicles effected vs. total units sold and compare Toyota/Honda and the Big 3...
I do believe it's an isolated problem though... have any 06 or 07 cars been effected by this? I believed it was an 05.
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bernie 4:58PM (7/12/2006)
Another black eye for Toyota quality in addition to the arrests of three executives for negligence on a 90s steering issue. The automotive press is going to have to work extra hard to maintain the media darling status they've awarded Toyota for the past 15 years (complete with unlimited free passes).
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g 5:38PM (7/12/2006)
Seems as though toyotas false image of superior quality is constantly getting tarnished. Face it toyota is no better when it comes to quality than any other automaker!
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