In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Consumer Editor Jeremy Korzeniewski and News Editor Joel Stocksdale. It's a truck-heavy podcast as it starts with Korzeniewski and Stocksdale talking about the '90s GMC Suburbans they both bought this year. After that, the editors shift to discussing the compact trucks of the moment, the 2022 Ford Maverick and Hyundai Santa Cruz. Then there's a detour to the Lexus UX 200.
They wrap up the show with a discussion of highlights from this year's SEMA show from electric conversions to massive crate engines. And of course, they spend someone else's money, this time with very interesting criteria.
Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.
Transcript[THEME SONG]
GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to The Autoblog Podcast. I'm Greg Migliore. It's a bright, cold, chilly Thursday afternoon. We are recording episode 703 the first week of November. Hope you're enjoying this weekend, maybe in between football games. You might be doing some grilling or whatever it is you're doing, enjoy the Autoblog Podcast. We've got a great show for you today. We're going to talk about small pickup trucks-- the Ford Maverick, the Hyundai Santa Cruz, and my kind of like almost below-the-radar favorite small crossovers, that's the Lexus UX.
We also have a great show as far as SEMA this year. We didn't actually send anybody, but we've been looking at all of the very cool concept cars and trucks and things the tuners the automakers did. The Ford Aluminator, I think that's probably going to come up. Plenty of other good stuff. Jeremy and Joel, the two editors joining me today, have each purchased Suburbans, old ones. And I think I'm just super excited. We will spend your money finally. But with that, let's bring in Joel and Jeremy. What's up guys?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Not much. It's also-- it's also chilly down here in Columbus, Ohio.
GREG MIGLIORE: There you go. There you go. It's football weather, right? Big Ten weather, as we say. You guys feeling good about your Suburbans? Are they ready for winter?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, tires are good. four wheel drive is active and all good. So you know, obviously, that doesn't help you stop, but you know, yeah, set for winter.
GREG MIGLIORE: How are you doing there, Joel?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I got a new set of wheels and tires for it. Got some-- let's see, general grabber tires. They're all-terrains that are snow-rated with raised white letters on the side to go along with the kind of '90s theme.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Those are the exact same tires that I have on mine.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Nice.
GREG MIGLIORE: Should we-- should we do this right now. Jeremy and Joel bought Suburbans. Why don't we just do this right off the top, totally spontaneous. Let's do it. So Jeremy, what year did you buy your-- or what year Suburban did you get? Just tell us what we got here.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, mine is a 1993. So it's the second year of that GMT 400 kind of boxy style. Not the super boxy old '80s ones, but the ones that if you were a child of the '80s growing up, you were kind of surrounded by them. So 1993, the one that I have is a K2500 4 by 4. The 2500 meaning it's built on the heavy duty chassis. And it has the optional 454 big block Chevy V8.
GREG MIGLIORE: Very cool, very cool. When you speak of that generation, you and I are very close in age-- I think actually within months, if I'm remembering here-- that to me-- like, I remember this SUV. I remember like, going to like scout camp in trucks like this. Like-- it's like it seemed like a lot of the parents had at the time. So I hear you.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Totally. Yeah, I'm sure Joel will-- will echo me on. This, like growing up, I've always thought that the GMT 400 trucks were just really, really well-designed. Just, I mean, exterior styling. There's plenty of-- there's plenty of problems with you know, ergonomics and build quality and stuff like that. But the actual visual design of it, I think it's going to stand the test of time.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Cool.
GREG MIGLIORE: Joel, what-- what did you buy?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: So I got a slightly later GMT 400, and it's a K-1500. So it's on the lighter duty version of the frame. That also means it's got a 5.7 liter small block Vortec.
GREG MIGLIORE: Nice.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: So Joel's is a Vortec. Mine is the previous one with the still throttle body, I believe.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, and mine's got the like, spider injection type of engine.
GREG MIGLIORE: What kind of shape is the interior in, Joel?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Mine is in impressively clean condition.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And it was a fairly well optioned one with leather and power seats. Actually, a surprisingly nice stereo. And it was in pretty good shape overall. And that goes for most of the truck. What really got me was that it's really rust-free. And when I've been driving it, the engine seems to be in good shape. I've got a slightly wonky reading oil pressure gauge that has me slightly concerned, but other than that, it's just been like little things.
I've had to replace the climate control knobs for the rear seats and the reflector, I had to replace. I'm going to change out the power mirrors. And the power driver's seat isn't working quite right. That one may not get fixed. But it's not like I'm changing that all that much, so. Basically clean, but with like little-- little bumps and scrapes and things here and there.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: To hear Joel talk about that, that's actually the one thing that is a little iffy with-- with mine also, is the power driver's seat. When-- when no one's sitting on it, it moves forward and back really well. When it's got my 200-something pounds sitting on it, it goes real slow. So you know, first thing I'm going to do is just go down there and grease things up and see if that kind of takes a little bit of resistance away.
Besides that, though, everything works in mine. You know, the super surprising thing is it's got 100-- 103,000 miles on it, something like that. And like, just looking at the interior, you'd guess that it had 100 miles on it. The interior is-- is literally spotless. Well, I guess that's not entirely true. GM kind of silkscreened their-- the dash with like the control information, and some of that silkscreening has worn away. You know, so there's a little bit of guesswork in figuring out what all the buttons are, for sure. But besides that, it is absolutely spotless.
I am going to replace the very top dash pad. I went-- I found a website, LMC Trucks. They basically sell every single piece of these things. It's almost like, if you've got a bare shell, you could build a Suburban out of their parts catalog. So I'm going to-- I'm going to get-- it's got like, some sun cracks and stuff in the very top portion of the dash. But like, seriously, everybody who gets in it is like, what year is this, how many miles are on it? It's absolutely spotless inside.
GREG MIGLIORE: What-- I'm curious, what attracted you guys to the Suburban of this era?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: So part of it for me was like what Jeremy touched on earlier, is that I think this generation of GM truck just looks really nice. It's-- it's aged extremely well. It's-- it's very clean. It's got a lot of that kind of boxy shape that's coming back into Vogue right now. But done so fairly modestly. It was kind of like just before trucks really started going, sort of ultra macho kind of after the-- I guess it would be second generation Dodge Ram came out in the mid-'90s, that-- kind of there was the race to make them more like, big-rig-inspired trucks. So I just-- I think it's a really sharp looking thing.
And there are a couple of other factors. One, so when I'm looking at getting a car, if I'm not necessarily just straight replacing a car and maybe like, adding to what vehicles I have, I don't-- I don't like to have too much overlap. Like, if I'm going to have a car, I want it to provide something different than what I've already got. And that was one of the issues that I had at the time, was I had picked up a turbo VW Beetle last year. And it was kind of fulfilling the same duties that my old Civic SI had. Kind of fun daily-ish sort of vehicle.
And I was like, I just-- I don't need both of them. I mean, the Civic was going to kind of become my winter car, but I was kind of tired of it and I wanted something different. And I didn't want to just kind of, I don't know, have another car that's kind of the same as something else I already have. And I've never had-- I've never had something with a V8 before. And I've never had a four wheel drive vehicle before.
And so those were a couple of things that this filled in the gaps. And I was also looking for something that I could use for hauling, like, yard waste or furniture and just things like that. And neither the Beatles nor Miata were particularly great for those things. So this just kind of ticked off a whole bunch of boxes. Actually, come to think of it, this is the first American car that I've ever owned. So it just checked off a lot of boxes for things that like I had not-- I had not had the chance to try out an own. And it also offers some practical things that my other cars couldn't.
Now admittedly, I was at first looking at pickup trucks, but in this crazy pandemic market, pickup trucks are crazy, crazy expensive. Big SUVs on the other hand, I have noticed, have not been as expensive as pickup trucks. And I came across this one for kind of in my budget. I ended up spending about $6,000 on it. And yeah, and now it's sitting in my driveway.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, for-- for me-- I mean, echoing some of the things that Joel said-- you know, a big SUV like Suburban is-- it's kind of like-- either that or a pickup truck is kind of like the ultimate in utilitarian vehicles. The nice thing about a full-size SUV like the Suburban is that it's fully enclosed. So similar to Joel, I was going back and forth between pickup trucks and in SUVs.
A pickup truck has a lot of benefits to it that are obvious with big open bed. But one-- one problem with pickup trucks is that when you go on long extended vacations and trips, camping, hiking, whatever-- anything that you leave in the back of the truck is ripe to be stolen or kind of disappear on you. So that's-- that's a problem with trucks that you don't have with an SUV like the Suburban. You can lock the back and keep everything in there. And some of the stuff-- stuff that we camp and hike with is pretty expensive-- backpacks, tents. All the gear that-- that you accumulate to make life easier when outdoors. So that was a benefit to getting the SUV.
We also occasionally tow, and the 2500 has a 10,000-pound tow rating. So that was important to me to have also. And then past that, I was looking for something older for a couple of reasons. One, I just like them. I like old kind of pre-modern-- modernity-- how did you say that? Pre--
GREG MIGLIORE: I think it's one of the vaccines, right?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.
[CHUCKLES]
You know, it's got all the stuff that you really care about like air conditioning, a decent stereo, power seats, power windows, power locks, that kind of stuff. But you know-- it's got cruise. But there's-- there's no wonky lane keeping assist, there's no automatic emergency braking, there's no-- and other things that I want-- I'll add a backup camera. I've already got the radio and the screen to put that in and the camera. I just have to install them and wire it up, and that'll be a winter project.
And also, kind of being on the bell curve of things that are starting to appreciate was-- was intriguing to me. The two vehicles that I narrowed my final search down to was the-- excuse me-- the Suburban that I bought. And then a-- I think it was a 1989 Ford Bronco and the Bronco was very intriguing to me. It was a little bit more expensive, had some more miles on it. But it was in very, very good condition outside and inside. It had one spot of rust bubbling around the-- the rear Fender that I would have had to have dealt with, but besides that, it was spotless and solid. My Suburban also is spotless and solid. Whoever had it, I think they-- they didn't really use it in the winter, even though I'm going to.
But the cool thing about that Bronco, it was actually a five-speed manual transmission with the 5.0 liter V8, so I was super intrigued by it. I might have actually ended up with that, but I took my wife to go try both of them. She loves driving stick shifts, and she would have had a lot of fun with the Bronco, the V8 manual transmission. But she pointed out some practical issues-- you know, we want to use this vehicle for a lot of hauling, and we've got a massive tent, a big old kayak. You know, all kinds of accouterments for outdoor living. And I'm not sure all of them would have fit inside the Bronco like I'm sure they're going to fit inside the Suburban.
And then the other thing about the Suburban is you can remove that third row and there's just an absolutely cavernous space back there. So we'll still have potentially a backseat for friends, guests, the dogs, and whatnot. So you know, it just ticked all the boxes. I really would have liked to have bought the Bronco too, actually-- not Bronco 2 as in Ranger-based Bronco 2, but the Bronco also. Would have been cool to have both of them parked in my driveway, but that had been overkill.
And I also-- you know, this-- this sounds super hypocritical to say, but I lean green when it comes to automobile purchases. The Suburban is extremely not green. But having that vehicle parked in my driveway will allow my next car to be fully electric, which it will be. My next vehicle will be probably a couple of years old. I'm leaning towards BMW i3, but I'm-- I'm open on that front.
But having this, you know, unfortunately gas guzzler-- but having this super utilitarian, do everything car parked in the driveway, takes any pressure off range anxiety, and having an EV be the only vehicle. I paid a little bit more than Joel did for mine. I think just it has 103,000 miles on it, which is really low, the 454 engine, and the fact that it's 2500 HD just meant it costs a little bit more. It was just into double-- double digit thousand. I don't remember exactly what-- the 10-- 10,000-something is what the final price was.
So you know, all in all, I feel like I did pretty good on it. It's-- I think everything is inflation-- in inflated a little bit higher due to-- just due to the lack of availability right now. But I don't think I'm going to lose a ton of money on it. I think-- you know, I don't know that it's going to appreciate to like, Grand Wagoneer status or anything like that. But you know, I think there's always going to be an interest level in these things. And if keep it in really good shape, you know, I don't think I'm going to-- I don't think it's going to depreciate like, to a crazy degree.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think we're actually at a point where you're going to see some of these like, '90s SUVs, whether they're like the Bronco or some of the Jeeps-- they've probably hit the bottom. And you're going to start seeing them to go back up. And we are seeing that with like, Grand Wagoneers. I'm wondering if maybe Suburbans, maybe even some of the later Tahoes and whatnot-- Blazers-- like, I don't know if they'll ever quite get collectible status. But I feel like good conditioned ones, ones that maybe-- like, some of the interesting like trims or models-- Blazers of course, too, might start to fit into that like, we would almost call it like, the cars and bids territory.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Exactly.
GREG MIGLIORE: Where It's Maybe not like, bring a trailer, look at this expensive thing, but it's more like, hey, here's something you could buy. It's cool, it's not cheap, but you can probably get it, and you can drive it. So I'm starting to think that that's where some of these '90s SUVs are going to start to land. And that's where the market's going.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, yeah. No, I agree with you. I don't think it's ever-- I think that your description is perfectly-- cars and bids, yes. Bring a trailer, no. And it's also-- you know, we haven't mentioned RADwood at all-- but, like, there was the emergence of that RADwood generation, and interest in-- in '90s vehicles is high. Mine happened to be two-tone gold and teal, so it very much fits that '90s aesthetic.
So yeah, it's-- I talked to some people who are just absolutely not into cars like my-- my wife's mother. We drove it to her house, and she went out and she's like, why did you buy something so old? And you know, I get that sentiment. You know, the benefit to buying something old is that it's cheap and easy to work on. But other people, like people who probably listen to this podcast, say like, a '93 Suburban, that's cool. You know, so it's just you've got to know your market. And there's-- I think there's enough people who find that kind of thing interesting and cool, that there will always be a certain interest level in them on the market.
GREG MIGLIORE: Guys, I think we spent-- go ahead. Go ahead, Joel.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I was just going to say, like-- because I took my Suburban up to a crown rust prevention treatment place.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, good move.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And the guy that-- that runs the shop, he-- he was really excited about my Suburban when I rolled up. He-- he really liked it. He apparently had a '97 Tahoe that he was very fond of and was impressed with how clean this was. And it's-- mine's also definitely kind of a rad color combo. It's kind of a reddish pink with very '90s like, side graphics on it with silver lower section. And it's got the factory fender flares. And it's also got some paint-matched tail light covers-- little like, slotted ones that were so popular.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Very era-- era-appropriate-- appropriate. Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool. Well we, should probably flash forward. Leave the '90s real quick and come back to 2021, which this is, for about 50 something more days. Talk about the-- we'll talk small trucks right now, which I could see these two vehicles being in 30 years from now, talked about the same way we're talking about these Suburbans. You know, is like maybe in their time, they weren't like, the most sought-after collectible thing-- although they're both actually flying off dealer lots. And then, you know, who knows, maybe these are future collectibles, I don't know. Ones that they make a lot of and then they're not as common out there.
So why don't we flip it over to you, Joel, as far as the Santa Cruz. You had it for a week. I've driven this as well. Then we'll talk about the Maverick 2. But I mean, this seems like-- I know you've also been very interested in the Maverick. So yeah, what's your take on this segment? To me, it's very practical and appeals to a lot of different people.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I agree. And I've been very excited to try out these new little trucks, because to be completely honest, they might actually fill my needs for kind of a practical-ish vehicle better than the Suburban that I got. It's just that they're significantly more money than I'm ready to spend on something like that right now.
But the Santa Cruz that I had was a totally loaded limited trim. So it came with the turbocharged 2.5 liter engine, all wheel drive, all leather interior, sunroof, heated and ventilated seats. 10-inch screens for the instruments and for the infotainment. It had the fancy built-in, hard sliding Tonneau cover for the bed. It was completely loaded. And it came with a pretty steep price. The-- Monroney for it was about $41,000. And this-- this is a small truck for that kind of money, but it was really loaded. And it does actually have a pretty nice interior. The interior is mainly shared with the Hyundai Tucson, but it's still-- it's still a stylish inside.
And what I was really impressed with is that it drives really quite well. The engine is really peppy. It handles quite nice. It's fairly responsive when you turn into corners. And it feels very stable and planted. And it actually doesn't feel very-- it doesn't feel like it understeer is too much. I mean, it's a front wheel drive-based platform, but it doesn't feel like it understeers too much. It's actually-- it's actually kind of fun to drive.
Engine's a little bit more nasally when you're kind of getting on it. It's not the most pleasant thing. And the transmission could be a little bit quicker. It's pretty-- it's smooth. So I mean, just normal driving around, it's really quite refined. It feels nice. But when you're getting on it, you start to see a little bit of the fact that it's-- well, it's not-- it's not necessarily meant to be a sporty car, but it happens to be-- it happens to be pretty nice to drive what you are driving at sporty. Oh, it rides really well too. It's-- it's pretty smooth. It soaks up bumps too, well. It's-- it's obviously not as isolating as like, a luxury, but it's really nice to drive.
GREG MIGLIORE: What [INAUDIBLE] did you have again? Did you say that?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I had the limited with the turbo engine.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, the turbo. Nice. Nice.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I'll be honest, I'm not even sure if Hyundai is giving out the lower trim ones with the naturally aspirated engine.
GREG MIGLIORE: I suspect that that engine might actually be better almost than maybe Hyundai thinks it might be. Like, I don't necessarily think that would be a penalty engine. Would the turbo be more fun and make the Santa Cruz almost like more of a-- little of that sport truck vibe? Definitely. But-- and that's kind of an advantage I think it has over the Maverick, is that turbo power plant, which is very nice. But you know, sometimes, the base engine is fine and cars and trucks and SUVs. So you know, I don't know-- I'd be very intrigued to try it just to see what the vibe is.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, and I'm curious too. And I'm also curious because the naturally aspirated engine also has a more conventional automatic transmission, whereas the turbo engine has a dual clutch one. And I'm-- I'm actually kind of curious if the automatic might even be a little bit smoother on shifting. But yeah, I'm very curious to drive the naturally aspirated one, in part because it's also priced pretty well. It's not as-- it doesn't have as cheap a base price as the base Maverick, but it's very comparable when you can pair it with the XLT Maverick, which is honestly, probably the one most people are going to walk away with, because you have to get at minimum the Maverick XLT to get cruise control on that truck, But yeah, I was impressed with Santa Cruz.
One thing I will note. The bed-- the bed has some interesting things. It's-- it's got a trunk, kind of like a Honda Ridgeline, but it's really shallow. I put my groceries in there and I had to tilt a gallon of milk over onto its side to get it to fit in there, because it's just-- there's just not the height or depth. Also, because the Santa Cruz just has a normal tailgate, it doesn't-- it only flips down, it doesn't swing out to the side like on a Ridgeline, it's quite a reach to get down into the trunk over the tailgate, which is kind of annoying. Whereas with the Ridgeline, you can swing out the tailgate and you can get right up to the bumper, and it's easy to get into the trunk.
Also, the sliding Tonneau cover is nice, but it's also really bulky. And the Santa Cruz bed is not very big to begin with. So when you add this big kind of chunk of metal to the back of the bed, that can really impinge on your actual like, carrying space. Like, if you're going to try to carry something kind of long and bulky, that's going to get in the way. So I would actually probably try and skip the built-in Tonneau cover, especially because it is a four-door truck, so you do have the back seat.
And you can even flip up the back seat, cushions for some interior storage. And so when you've got that, you do have some covered like, weatherproof secure storage area. So-- and you will also have the trunk too. So I would be-- I would not be that worried about getting the Tonneau cover to have covered storage.
GREG MIGLIORE: Interesting. See, I'm a big fan of Tonneau covers. I would almost always go for that, I think. And I think that's sort of an advantage that the Santa Cruz has over the Maverick, is that the sliding cover is so like, integrated into it as a feature. And it's to me, one of the big selling points, even. So you know, I would definitely chalk that up as far as the Santa Cruz's favor.
Yeah, I mean-- it's interesting to me to think about these-- you mentioned the Ridgeline too. I think right now is a great time to buy like, a small to midsize truck, because there's so many new products out there like the Maverick. And I mean, a lot of-- they sort of reflect what each automaker is. Hyundai-- Hyundai has like, really cool design right now. I mean, I think it's cool. You know, they're going with a turbo engine and some kind of interesting features like the Tonneau cover.
Ford to me with the Maverick-- this is a Ford truck, you know, quotation marks, "Built Ford Tough." You know, is it as capable as the Ranger or the F-150? Of course not. But like, just after driving one for a week-- and I had the hybrid-- it really like, felt like a Ford truck. You know, and I feel like we're turning to a drinking game every time I say the words, Ford truck, let's do a shot or something. But it's like, that's the vibe they're going for here, you know?
Like, it's not like well, it's-- it's this entry level thing or it's like a crossover replacement. They're like, no, this is a truck. OK, and that's fine. And I think for some people, you might prefer actually, like, more like the flexible crossover replacement, which is if you remember, that's actually what the Ridgeline was like, 15 years ago when it came out. They were like, hey, we actually saw this kind of space where we could maybe get a truck buyer, maybe we could get a crossover buyer, maybe get it kind of in between.
So to me, it's just interesting the different customers that they're trying to appeal to. But obviously, there's going to be a ton of Overlap Maverick Hybrid is, I think, a really good value. It's a good hybrid, it's a good truck. It's a good-- you know, either one of those things it's good at, fulfilling the mission. You know, you're looking at 42 miles per gallon in the city-- that's awesome, you know?
On short drives, you know, I would do like-- like dropping my son off at preschool, that's like, a quick like four-mile round trip. And the onboard readout would be like, you just drove two miles on electricity. Well, that's cool, you know? I mean stuff like that, I think, is really-- really helpful. And I think it also shows off a little bit like, hey, this is what Ford was thinking when they're like, we're not going to do cars. We're going to do other things.
And you're like, OK, well, now the Maverick is really the replacement for the Ford Focus, if you look at it as far as like-- like the type of customer and the type of price that they're going after. That's really what this is. And it takes a little bit of mental recalibration to kind of go there. But that's really what this is-- you're appealing to like, almost like an entry level customer. You're just doing it in a different way. And frankly, what's cooler-- a pickup truck or a Ford Focus?
So I think now that I've driven it, it's crystallizing for me what they were doing a few years ago. But you know, the interior is not as good as the-- the Santa Cruz. You know, you can compare different trims. And to your point there, Joel, like, to get really anything out of Maverick, you kind of got to step up a little Bit I'm very curious what their take rate of the one that-- the MSRP is like 19,995. Like, how many of those are they going to sell? Maybe a lot-- I don't know. But I'd be very curious to see.
I know in their sales statement, they put out some interesting data that's something like-- let's see, where is it-- like, something like a quarter of the sales-- I have it right here-- are to people 18 to 35 years old, and they sold 4,140 Mavericks in October, which doubled up the Santa Cruz. Now I don't know if there's any supply stuff going on there, but the Maverick is definitely putting some points on the board for Ford.
Interior is, I think, interesting too, because it's got like, a lot of cubby holes and like, shapes. Like, mine had this kind of orange like, trim on some of the like different pieces in there. And it's very basic. Didn't have satellite radio. Like, it's a pretty small infotainment screen by today's standards. It handles like a truck though. Like, it reminds me a little bit of like a small Ranger, the way the steering is kind of like weighty and not rubbery, but you know what I mean-- that kind of Ranger-like feel. I mean, it's got that sort of feel to it.
The bed's pretty small. I guess we tailgated on Halloween with it. That was fun. We used the power outlet to put some Halloween lights up, put some pumpkins on it. The one thing I would say is I don't know if-- they really are marketing this at the do it yourself crowd. Like, I don't know-- do you think that many people are going to like build a wooden bike rack and put it in their truck? Or like, do some of this like DIY wiring that they suggest you can do? Maybe they will, I don't know. But I don't necessarily know how many people are going to do that. So I don't know. That's my mini review of the Ford Maverick. Definitely like it for sure.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I think more people will do it than-- than I think you might realize, because I'm sure there are a lot of people that are looking at this and are on a bit of a budget that like, they-- they might have been like, you know, I need a new car. I'd like a truck, but I can't stretch to a Ranger or a Colorado or something that-- and certainly not one that would be like, nice. Because the like sub-30,000 like, Rangers and Colorados and things are really, really bare bones, and not particularly pleasant to be in.
Whereas for that similar amount of money, you can get a Maverick that's actually decently equipped. And so I'm betting there are probably a lot of like, kind of more budget-conscious people. Out there that's like hey, if I can like, set up my cargo dividers and stuff using some 2 by 4's, yeah, I'm going to do that.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I think there's probably-- I think there's probably truth to that component of it, Joel. I think the part that I wonder about is, are people actually going to like, take out that-- that DIY wiring splice thing and use it to wire up a lot. I mean, maybe a few people who are really into tailgating, but that one seemed pretty far fetched to me, honestly.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, wiring is probably a bridge too far. But there's probably some people that like, maybe hadn't thought of it before and like, maybe I'll give it a shot. But that is probably going to be a small-- small group of people. Yeah, so Greg, you-- I think you have driven both the Maverick and the Santa Cruz, right?
GREG MIGLIORE: I have, I have. Somewhat recently.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: So how would you kind of like, describe sort of how they differentiate as far as like, the driving experience? Because that's-- that's what I'm really curious about with the Maverick. Because with Santa Cruz, I was like, this feels kind of car-like in-- in kind of the best ways possible.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's a really good, good point. I would compare the Santa Cruz almost like a Tucson with a bed in some ways, which is what you might expect. It's-- even the interior vibe is in that same vein. I would say the Maverick reminds me a bit-- a bit almost like a small Ranger in that sense. You know, from the steering field to just the feel you get behind the steering wheel in that driver's seat. There's definitely a truck-like demeanor.
You've got like, a long-- not long-- but kind of a squat wide hood. Reminded me a little bit of the feeling of Bronco, where you've just got this like, slab, this flat hood out in front of you. Suspension is-- I would say the Maverick's a little stiffer, a little harder than the-- like, the Santa Cruz is. I think it's-- I felt a little more beat up on some of the roads around here, especially as it's getting cold and things are getting a little messy out here.
Yeah, and then the power trains, to me, that's more like, what flavor do you like. Do you want the hybrid. You want like the base Ford engine. Do you want the turbo you know, in the Santa Cruz. Or their base naturally aspirated engine as well.
So I'm going to like-- to psychoanalyze, I feel like you might be more of a Maverick person, Joel. That-- that would be where I would guess if you-- after you drove him back to back. What I've kind of come down on is that the Maverick is going to be a little bit more of a mainstream play. I feel like there's going to be like-- a lot of truck buyers are going to look at this thing in a relatively serious way, because you can fit it in your garage. Like, it's really a nice sized little truck, and it still feels like a truck.
And I feel like the Santa Cruz-- I always thought the Santa Cruz was more of a higher risk play. Like, it's either going to be just this awesome game changing thing or it's going to be a little bit more of like a trivia question. And I'm feeling that I think they're still going to sell a bunch of them, I think it's going to be a hot vehicle for a few years. But I don't necessarily think it's like, a paradigm shift for like Hyundai or the industry.
Like, I don't necessarily think we're going to go to like almost like crossover-based, car-like pickup trucks. I mean, what's the Ridgeline done, you know, in it's like, 15 years or so in existence. It's a nice truck, but-- I like it, but it never sold like maybe Honda hoped it would. And I think the Santa Cruz will probably sell OK, and it'll be a crossover style play, and that'll be it. I don't think-- like my guess is a year from now, we're going to be like yeah, that October sales tally of 2021 was-- was you know, like, foreshadowing of things to come. And the Maverick will outsell it maybe like, by a third or something. So yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I mean, I could certainly-- well after driving the Santa Cruz, I could almost see myself in either of them. I know that the hybrid is very appealing to me in the Maverick for the fuel economy, because like Jeremy, I would like to have efficient vehicles. The Suburban is a bit of a shift in that decision making.
That being said, especially if it was a vehicle that I wasn't driving a whole lot, the turbo-- well, I wouldn't really be able to afford a turbo Santa Cruz. However, you can get a turbo Maverick for a fairly low price. And that has very similar-- it's not as powerful as the turbo Santa Cruz, but 250 horsepower and 277 pound feet of torque is no slouch in the turbo Maverick.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's a good point. That engine's not nothing. That's a decent engine in the Ford. That's a really good point, Joel.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And I think-- I think both vehicles do have enough-- differentiate themselves enough to find their customers. And each of them do have little advantages like the Santa Cruz has slightly higher towing numbers. And the Santa Cruz, you can have it with the base engine and get it with all wheel drive. Whereas on the Maverick, the hybrid is front wheel drive only.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely another good point of differentiation. It's-- I think in some ways, it reflects again, each strategy of Ford versus Hyundai, how they do their product planning. I know when-- I did a Santa Cruz drive in late August, and one of the things their product guys said was something-- something to the effect of yeah, Maverick's got a hybrid. Yeah, we got to do something about that.
Like, because they have-- I believe it's the Tucson hybrid, is like right there. So like, similar-- the same technology in a very similar package could easily work here. So I mean, I kind of think in a year-- if I were a betting man-- you might see something like that on the Hyundai front.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I'd even like to see both of them have plug-in hybrid versions, because there is a plug-in hybrid Tucson, there is a plug-in hybrid Escape.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yes. Plus, you can fit the-- like, the Escape will obviously fit in your garage, but so will the Maverick. You know, and I mean, suddenly you're like-- it's not like you're trying to plug-in your F-150 and your like, Suburban Colonial. You know, you can get a Maverick in a garage and that's not that big a deal.
So-- so we should probably transition over to the Lexus UX that Jeremy spent some time in. I always-- I've always had a soft spot for this little crossover. I think it's kind of fun, I especially like the hybrid, but what did you drive, Joel?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I had the non-hybrid the UX 200. For those who-- who don't-- don't follow the hierarchy closely, the-- the standard non-hybrid is a 2.0 liter naturally aspirated four cylinder with a CVT transmission powering the front wheels. That is the UX 200. Then there's the UX 250H, which is a similar 2.0 liter, naturally aspirated engine, but an added hybrid component, a couple of electric motors if you get all wheel drive.
And you know, a little bit more powerful. Neither one of them is particularly spunky-- under 200 horsepower, if I'm recalling correctly. And none of that kind of turbo whoosh that you expect to get in small displacement engines these days.
You know, driving enjoyment is not really the reason to buy one. It's-- I would say-- it's-- it's a really good option for people who want are attracted to the Lexus badge, both for its kind of luxury status, established luxury status, and its well-deserved reputation for reliability. I fully expect that the UX will be just as reliable over a decade as any other high-end Toyota/Lexus product.
It drives fine. It's kind of more European in flavor. It's not stiff, but firm suspension. Steering is you know, pretty much what you'd expect-- not full of feel or anything like that. But nicely weighted and direct. It's got plenty of room for two passengers and a weekend getaway's worth of stuff. Back seat is very small, and I would say there's no way you're going to fit four people's worth of luggage in it for a trip.
So, you know, a younger couple who can afford you know, $40,000 for a nice car, doesn't need a lot of space, just like an urban runabout it's really good. And I would say one of the best things about is it definitely stands out. You know, a lot of cars, you know, the-- the basic lozenge shape is very common. Whereas the UX very clearly stands out.
It's got the Predator-esque Lexus grille on the front of it. And it's a little bit pointier and more angular than most anything from the German manufacturer. So yeah, I mean it's a unique style. And standing out sometimes is important to people. So good car, fairly efficient, reasonable to drive, not terribly expensive.
The downsides are that it's very small. And just a kind of offshoot from that, when I did a buying guide on this vehicle, I found that some readers tend to complain when we call a small car small. But what they're not realizing is even small cars are competing against one another. You know, like, yeah, we know it's small, but it's even small compared to its competitors.
And that can matter. You might want the small-- you might want the small footprint-- easy to park, easy to put in your driveway, plenty of room in your garage. But you still may be interested in how much luggage space it can carry, how much leg room it's got in the back for back passengers. If you're over six feet tall, how much headroom does it have.
So we're not calling small cars out for being small. They're supposed to be. But when they're significantly smaller than their competitors or when their small size might rule out certain buyer's due to their size or requirements, it's good to call those things out. And the UX is one of those vehicles that is a small car that's even smaller than those vehicles that it competes with. So that's something to note. It's definitely not going to work for everybody. But it's a very nice little car.
GREG MIGLIORE: Very cool. I-- the last time I drove one, a UX, I took it to the Secretary of State, which is like the DMV in Michigan. And I just remember zipping around and enjoying it very much. And thinking that this visit to like, renew my tabs or whatever was not such a bad thing, because I had a fun drive to and from. So it's been a little while, but yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I do think the hybrid is the one to buy, for what it's worth.
GREG MIGLIORE: I agree. I agree.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. It's a few thousand dollars more, but it is more efficient, it is slightly peppier, and it does offer all wheel drive. Besides the slight increase in cost, there's no downsides to it. So that's-- that's the direction I'd go.
GREG MIGLIORE: So we've already talked Suburbans. We were going to have that right in here in this tweener spot. We'll definitely include the links to these like Wikipedia entries. And if you guys have any pictures or something, we should get those on the show notes. But let's talk SEMA. Just the general chatter around the show, and reading our coverage and other sites, is like, wow, CEMA was good this year.
You know, like, last year, for obvious reasons, it wasn't as much. But I mean, there was some cool stuff there. And you know, what stood out to you guys? I mean, to me there was just like, almost too much to get into. But I mean, give me a-- doesn't have to be the Best in Show, but what would you-- what really just resonated with you, Jeremy?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Well, I mean, I think we're all going to call out this three-row Jeep Wrangler that-- that Jeep put together. You know, as soon as I saw it, I thought, uh-oh, Land Rover has got to be quaking in their boots when they see that, because you know, they've got this new Defender. And what is it, the 1-- 130, the new one that-- that everyone's expecting shortly.
And you know, like, the funny thing about Jeep is they can build-- or excuse me, they can easily sell every Wrangler that they build. And yes, they've got some-- some new competition from Ford, but there's so much demand for Wranglers and Broncos that, you know, I don't know-- I'm not entirely certain what Jeep's strong motivation would be to turn around and extend a Wrangler Unlimited, and make a third row.
But they wouldn't have produced this concept if they weren't thinking about it and weren't aware that there'd be a demand for it. And in the pictures, it just looks so cool with the kind of bumped up bubble top on it for stadium seating for the third-- third row-- second third row of passengers. So that definitely-- and I love the color combination. Check-- check out Autoblog.com and you'll see photos of that-- that Wrangler if you check out our SEMA coverage or our Jeep coverage. It's a great color combination, and I really love to see that.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, very cool. Shockingly, that JK goes with the Jeep. But, I mean--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: [CHUCKLES]
GREG MIGLIORE: That's a really cool one too. I really liked what they did with it. They really just gave the whole vehicle a kind of a different retro look, which was just really nice. How about you, Joel? I know you kind of like going to the show-- or at least you have in the past. What stood out to you?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: There was a lot of really good stuff.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: The thing that I want to highlight that I think actually got a little bit buried by some other stuff this week, because it came out a little early, was Chevy announced this new crate engine, the ZZ 632. And it is just the most outrageous ridiculous crate engine I may have ever seen-- even over the 1,000 horsepower Mopar Hellelephant engine that came out a couple of years ago.
So the 632 in the name is for the is for the displacement in cubic inches, which for people that are more familiar with metric, that's a 10.3 liter V8 engine. That's even more displacement than the old Viper V10. And it's-- it's all packaged into-- it's a big block Chevy engine. And it's a push rod. And it's built heavy. It's got-- it's got a forged steel crank and forged steel rods, and it's a cast iron block.
But the thing still revs to 7,000 RPM and it makes 1,004 horsepower. And it does all that on 93 octane pump gas. And it's just-- it's just such an outrageous engine. I-- I would love to try it out in something someday somewhere. They-- I don't think they've announced pricing yet. I think I did see a couple of places saying that they had leaked information that said about $30,000 for one of the engines, which I'm not entirely surprised at. But yeah, it's just-- it's just a completely outrageous thing. And it's-- it's the kind of thing that I love about CEMA.
GREG MIGLIORE: Chevy has done a really good job, I think, in the last five, six years of using-- whether they're crate engines or even the E-ROD technology that they use, where they're like electric crate motors, and just showcasing them in different things. And I loved what they did with that '57 Chevy. That was part of I think with Hot Rod Magazine.
But just I like the way you-- like, it's like they bring you in, they get the attention. You're like, oh, what's that old cool thing, and it's got like, an electric motor or a crate motor under the hood. I think that's great. Jeremy, I'll bore you with the stories of this like '73 Chevelle Laguna they did a few years ago and I always bring up every year. It was 2018 they did that.
But Ford did something very similar, and you got to check out our list-- it's called The Aluminator with their electric crate engine, which is essentially-- it's like a Mach E crate put in under the hood of much, most, some of the 1978 Ford F-100. If you actually look at it, it looks like it's more-- like, they bolted the panels of a '78 F-100 around some other stuff, and that's-- that's cool. I'm all for that kind of resto mod approach.
And it's-- man, I mean, just that story went so viral. I was just on Twitter here in the background. And you guys might know Mike Whalen, he's an auto reporter for CNBC. He was tweeting out that The Aluminator is like, on day two or three of its like top five for their website. And you know, you're talking about like, a financial website, right? I just-- I've seen the story everywhere. I think it goes to show you the pictures and like-- the right kind of like, you know, old vintage thing can really like just capture the field at the moment, and this truck certainly did. So that-- that was really cool too.
And I guess the one thing I missed this year-- I didn't-- I didn't go obviously-- is I really love how Mopar and Jeep just at the end of their press conference, they serve beer and offer like, food, snacks. I don't know if they did that this year, but I hope that's a tradition they continued. Whenever anybody would be like, oh, who's going to cover Jeep, it's at like, 5 o'clock, which is like 8 o'clock Eastern time, especially like day one of press days, you're probably still a little jet lagged. Be like, oh, I don't care, I'll cover it. You know, and get the press kit. Have a I was going to say Molson, but probably not a Molson-- Budweiser or something. And check out all the cool-- cool vehicles.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, and I want to add to the electric conversion stuff, because I'm excited that it's getting a lot more attention. Part of me feels a little bit bad for Chevy, because this is actually the third year that they've done electric converted resto mods with the Project X Hot Rod '57 Chevy. It's got-- while they didn't confirm it-- basically, the motor from the Cadillac LYRIQ. But in years past, they did a Chevy C10 pickup with a couple of modular electric motors. And then another year they, did a Chevy K5 Blazer that they added a Chevy Bolt motor to and battery pack, which was kind of previewing their E-CRATE motor electric system.
For some reason, the Ford F-100 custom that Ford did seemed to really get the media traction. Not that it's undeserved, because it's a very cool truck. And it's worth noting that it actually has two electric Motors in it. They basically took the Mach E Mustang power train and put both motors at either end, and it's got 480 horsepower. I-- I'm really curious to see what kind of battery was in it and how they packaged it. The-- the photos very clearly did not show how that was all packaged. Granted, Chevy didn't really show how this Project X was really packaged either. But--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I think-- I think it's a whole lot of Duracells, Joel.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: They went on Amazon, and just put them in the trunk, wired them up like a radio.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Cleaned out every single Walmart in town. Just went to that little battery stand and just shoved them all in the cart. But yeah, I'm really excited about that stuff, because I think it's really cool. And I think it's an exciting way to be able to drive around in a classic and not really have any-- any guilt.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, I'm with Joel on this one. I'm not saying that I feel bad for-- for GM or Chevrolet at all. It's not that at all. But the thing that-- that is kind of surprising to me that I don't see a lot of chatter about-- except maybe hardcore Twitter-- car Twitter and our own-- our own commentary channels that we talk amongst ourselves-- Ford's system is set up for transverse mounting in-- in vehicles. Whereas General Motors has put out some kits that'll-- that'll bolt in more easily to what you'd think of as a-- more of a resto mod kind of platform with a front engine rear wheel drive set up.
So something just to be aware of is that if you're brainstorming and figuring out how you're going to put this Mach E motor inside your classic vehicle, just be aware that-- that it's set up for a transverse arrangement. So think front engine front wheel drive. You lift up the hood and the engine sitting sideways and they're powering the two-- the two front wheels. It doesn't obviously have to be front wheel drive-- it could be rear wheel drive or whatever. But that's just something to be aware of.
The-- the actual logistics of-- of setting that up inside a converted vehicle might be not exactly what you're thinking of. Whereas the GM E-CRATE system is more set up for that front engine rear wheel drive style platform. That's-- that's correct, isn't it, Joel?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yes. And I think some of that is the fact that the-- the Ford crate motor, the Aluminator, is available to order right now. It's on sale. The GM E-CRATE stuff is still kind of in development. They're still kind of finalizing some things, so you can't get that yet. I'm guessing that some of that was that GM is working on making it so that you can get the motor, and then a little bolt up to very common old transmissions.
I'm guessing that Ford wanted to get their motor out first. I can't blame them for that. And if you're creative with fabricating and stuff, it shouldn't be that much of a problem to find a way. I mean, it won't be easy. You'll have to do some serious work to get it to fit. But there are people that can do that.
Also worth noting is that Ford doesn't sell batteries and battery management systems and inverters and stuff yet to go along with its motors. So you'll still have to at the moment come up with a custom battery system. GM is working on including like, battery stuff with like, a complete E-CRATE set. And Ford is also said that they are working on offering all of those ancillary parts-- the batteries and battery management systems and things like that.
So you can't exactly go out to either of these companies and buy a turn-- and buy a turnkey power train. But they're coming, and they're coming soon. And what Ford and GM have been showing the last couple of years show that they are working on it and it's moving along.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool. I-- you know, I think it's interesting when we're looking at not only the custom tuning hot rodding hobby, but like, when you start to talk about electrifying your old-- you know, old wreck or maybe it's a status above that, there's a lot that goes into it, you know, too. And frankly too, just trying to build something out, sort of like what Ford did around like an E-CRATE type of motor-- I mean, that's interesting. You know, I mean, essentially what they have is almost like a like a soapbox derby you know, shell that they built out around this electric motor, which I think is cool.
So we should probably spend some money. We got a good one here. So let's see, this is-- all right, here we go. So I'm in an interesting spot. I'm just about to buy an SUV for my wife as a result of selling his Wrangler and his Triumph Bobber. OK. Means I'm going to have zero car payments, so that means it'll be time to go into debt next year by buying a sports car. All righty, sounds good. It's 2021, it's what people are doing the. Tricky part is finding a performance car that doesn't have a leather in it. He's a vegan and won't buy leather seats.
So here's some of the criteria. I'm looking at the New Z with a manual. Had a 370 before and loved it. The bummer is that the performance model has all the good stuff on it, but it comes with leather seats, so I'd have to get an entry level one, and that's frustrating. I was looking at the C8 LT1 package with a bunch of extras to make it really sweet, but I found out that even the LT1 might have leather door inserts, though it's not leather seating. I honestly don't know that-- maybe you guys do. That one's probably out.
Recently added to the list is an AMG C63. It's bloody expensive-- yes, it is. But the specs are amazing and they do offer in faux leather. That's true-- Mercedes does do-- they have their own, like, you know, formula for that.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: MB Tex, I think.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, yeah, I was to say MBUX, but I think that's also their infotainment. But yeah, you're right. I remember there was some controversy with that too. Like, remember, it was like, melting or something, like four or five years ago?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Did a story on it way back in the day. But they probably have figured out now. The M4 is mandatory leather. I didn't know that. That's unfortunate. Cayman sounds like it is, but for the money, he'd rather get a Z, to be honest. That's an interesting approach.
Challenger Hellcat widebody. Interior is ancient history-- ah, that's not so bad. Would not feel good about spending 70 grand and getting that interior though or that build quality. Uh, like I said, it's not so bad. What am I missing here. Help me buy a sports car, non-leather, probably a stick, but not mandatory. Looking at like, maybe $1,000 a month for the financing payment.
Newer, generally used, want to track it. Not mechanically inclined, so I don't want something that's unreliable or takes a lot of tinkering. Thank you, says Alex. Thank you for writing. This is a great one. Over to you, Jeremy.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Well, this is hard. You know, I fully support someone who's taking a stand if they don't believe-- if they're vegan and don't believe in using animal products. That's-- it's just going to be really, really difficult to get what you want, as you are actually seeing, as you write out your-- your email and send it to us. So here's-- here's where I settled, and you know, I-- I'm with Greg on this. I think you are undercutting the-- the Challenger.
You're writing it off before you probably should. The interior is-- is not bad. It's actually very usable. And-- and, you know, Chrysler's UConnect system is honestly one of the best in the business. You don't have to go all the way up to a Hellcat. You actually can get a challenge or Scat Pack, which is a super fun vehicle to drive. You can get the wide body, which is going to be a little bit grippier if you do want to track it, and you can get it with a six speed manual, and a big naturally aspirated Hemi V8 engine.
I wouldn't discount that. I mean, I would take it for a drive, take a closer look at it. But if it were me, and I were spending my own money on this, I would look hard for a-- Mustang Shelby GT350R. Those had full Alcantara interiors, which is a manmade kind of suede-ish material. A lot of car companies use it, because it's lightweight, but in this case, it is not produced from animal products as far as I know. I'm not a vegan, so I'm not like, super expert level at that.
But that's-- that's Alcantara, I believe the door panels and the seats and everything. Whether it's fully vegan-- I don't know. I did an internet search on vegan cars and I found that some are-- like the Polestars are actual vegan interiors. But those are electric, obviously not a manual transmission, and obviously not something you want to take to a track. So yeah, I'd settle down, look for a gently used Shelby Mustang GT350R with the Alcantara interior.
GREG MIGLIORE: Interesting choice. Over to you, Joel.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so I'm not speaking either, and this is not something that I think a whole lot about when I've been looking at vehicles. But Jeremy mentioning stuff with Alcantara definitely helps. I would definitely look for vehicles that offer that. And that would also be potentially a way for you to get a higher trim level without having to get leather, because Alcantara is often a kind of plush fancy option.
I think with the Corvette, if you get it without like, the leather seats, I highly doubt that the door panels would have actual leather, because that would cost money. And that's not something that Chevy is going to spend extra on kind of a lower trim level vehicle. It's very likely leatherette. Even with leather seats, there's a good chance it's also leatherette. Which I mean-- which, when I say that, just-- just to be clear, is kind of a vinyl. It's an imitation leather.
I think actually, what I'm kind of thinking, and part of it was inspired by Jeremy mentioning Alcantara, is I'd say maybe look for a Chevy Camaro SS 1LE, because it had faux suede steering wheel and a shifter. And I don't think the standard Recaro seats were leather. I can't remember for sure. But that's a fantastic driving car. And the 1LE is actually-- like, Chevy will warranty the 1LE even on track. So if you take it to a track and something goes wrong, you're still going to be covered by warranty, which is really nice.
And it's just a really, really good car drive. Sure, it's got a couple of drawbacks-- the visibility is one of them. And I mean, the back seat is kind of useless. But then the back seat is kind of useless and a Challenger or a Mustang. And some of the cars that you've looked at don't have back seats at all. And the SS 1LE has a manual transmission too, and it's a good manual transmission. I think it would actually be a really strong one.
I guess the-- the other thing I would mention is be aware that a lot of the cars that you're going to be looking at, they might not have leather upholstery or anything, but they might have a leather steering wheel and leather shift knob, because that is a very common thing to make the car feel a little bit nicer. I mean, like, a Miata or a Toyota 86 will come with a leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob to-- because it's like, they'll-- they'll go cheaper on like the cloth upholstery and like, the plastics and things. But they want something that to a lot of people, feels nicer in their hands than like, a rubber, plastic steering wheel or something. So they'll actually use leather on steering wheel and shifter. But yeah. So I'd say Camaro SS 1LE if you can find one of those, even like a year or two old used would be really, really great.
GREG MIGLIORE: Good. choices. The 1LE is what did come to mind when I was kind of thinking about this, because I remember just how Spartan those interiors were, especially like when they first came out. Like, those were some really basic cars. And I feel like they actually had to go back and put some things in, and make you like-- like, actively going and delete like the back seat or the speaker. Just because you know, it was such a like, rough, basic car that in some ways, I think they wanted to make sure people knew what they were getting into before they went ahead and bought it.
So that would be one. I would say a Scat Pack is another great option. The great thing about Chevy and Dodge is I don't think they put a whole lot like, leather into their cars. Like, that's one of the things we ding them for-- is their interiors are kind of you know, a little filled with acres of hard plastics. So I think those are a couple of places to look.
And I would also say-- and like, I've been trying to-- the new Z car is very intriguing to me. I would take a look at that. I was trying to spec one out, but it doesn't look like you could really get that into it right now. So I don't really know. Maybe they don't even yet, what like, the basic Z car is going to look like as far as the interior. I mean, I'm sure they know, but they're not really saying per se.
And also, Nissan interiors tend to be pretty basic. So you might be able to get one of those without leather. So that might be an option. But honestly, I can't say for sure if they will or won't have leather in that car. Being a newer thing, that's one to your point, Joel. They might say yeah, we're going to give you a leather-wrapped steering wheel, a leather-wrapped shift knob, that sort of thing, just to like, sort of say they did it. Sometimes, I feel like car companies do that. Like, there's like not a lot of leather in the car, but they'll do the steering wheel and the shift knob just to like, literally put it on the site and in the press kit, so.
But that car to me just in general is very appealing. I really feel like that could be-- its new, it's going to be different. It's-- again, like, if you're looking for like, sort of a very traditional sports car, and this is the last go of how we think the Z is going to be-- again, I don't have the greatest like, intel on like, the leather content. But I do think that one is worth the time there, Alex. Just doing a little more research and seeing what you could get.
And also, it's a new car. So I'm kind of wondering if maybe you'll be able to order some of this stuff specially. Like if you-- granted, cars are flying off the lots, demand is so crazy. Like, car companies aren't going to necessarily let you write your own ticket too much. But I also think there might be some room to say, hey, look, I don't want this. Can you do this for me? And they might be able to, you know? You might even have to pay-- they'll say, well, it's the same price with or without the leather. But I'm wondering if that could be an option, and that might help you get the car you want if you're willing to sort of like, literally reach out to customer service or reach out to a dealer.
Just reading, doing some quick googling, it looks like Tesla and Fisker actually are going to offer vegan options for some of their cars. I believe Tesla said that a while ago. But again, that's not really what you're looking for. You want like a real sports car, so a Model S isn't necessarily going to do that for you. So I mean, I guess I would kind of say do a little more-- a little more research on the Nissan Z car and see what you can come up with. Because I think like, again, getting that new car like that might be worth your time if you can do a little bit of you know, like, dealing or something to make that happen to the criteria you're looking for.
And thank you for writing. This was a challenging one, but we certainly appreciate it. Thanks for listening too. Everybody, else thank you for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this week's show. We really went all over the place with our topics. Have a great weekend. Send us your Spend My Money's. That's podcast.autoblog.com. We'll see you next week.
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