2015 BMW M3We aren't sure whether to file this one under "good news" or "bad news." BMW confirmed to Top Gear that there "are no plans" for lightweight versions of the new M3 and M4, in the same vein as the E46 M3 CSL (despite rumors to the contrary). The reason?

"There wasn't a CSL on the previous generation, and the way we look at it is like this: the CSL was great because it had this real focus on lightweight engineering. But we've already done that with these new cars. We've made them as light as possible - they come in under 1500 kilograms (3,306 pounds), which for a car like this is incredible," said Matt Collins, BMW's product manager for small to medium cars.

Now, as much as we love the idea of a hardcore version of any car, we appreciate BMW's point of view that the newest Ms are already as light and tough as they need to be. Collins elaborated, saying, "Rather than doing a halfway house to begin with and then rolling out a CSL, we thought we'd make the 'real' car as light as we possibly could. So we've no plans whatsoever to make a lighter, harder version just yet."

What are your thoughts here? Is BMW making a mistake, particularly considering Mercedes-Benz's penchant for launching hardcore Black Editions? Have your say in Comments.


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    • 1 Second Ago
  • 40 Comments
      Nicholas Selman
      • 10 Months Ago
      Key word "yet"
      flc
      • 10 Months Ago
      3300 curb weight? Sign me up.....
      KingTito
      • 10 Months Ago
      I think what they are trying to do is to get people to buy the car as is and not wait for the CSL, Competition Package, Lime Rock package, etc. Which makes sense. However, I have no doubt they won\'t come out with these things. Maybe not drastic weight reductions but suspension tuning, aero modifications, and engine tuning. It keeps things fresh and enables re-promotion of the product and a new magazine spread. I have never bought a model from the first one or two years not only to allow Engineering to work out the bugs but things always improve based on product planning, Engineering to do lists that don\'t make the cut for the launch version, and customer feedback.
      thedriveatfive
      • 10 Months Ago
      I wish the M235i was 3300lbs.
      Bernard
      • 10 Months Ago
      The ATS-V is going to eat these things alive. It's already close to that weight in base form.
      J
      • 10 Months Ago
      "We've made them as light as possible" Uhhh.. no you haven't.
      Mike McDonald
      • 10 Months Ago
      Whenever BMW has promised something in the past, they always have failed at their promise. For example, they said there would be no turbo m cars, no suv m's, and no awd m's. all of these promises were lies. I hope that this new statement about the CSL is a lie as well.
        infra
        • 10 Months Ago
        @Mike McDonald
        A lie is an intentional misrepresentation of the truth. Forward looking statements are always just that - the fact that they turn out to be wrong does not make them a "lie". When someone, years ago, made a statement that BMW would never have turbo "M" cars, that statement was based on current technology around turbocharged engines. Since humans are pretty terrible at predicting the impact of technology, as well as the irrational legislation that will be constructed, it's within reason how such a statement could be made.
        Peter_G
        • 10 Months Ago
        @Mike McDonald
        Telling your kid Santa is real is a lie. In 1990 (or whenever), having a rep say there will be no turbo M cars was accurate at that time given current market technologies - And regulations. You can't keep pushing the limits of a naturally aspirated engine and beat out your competition while being under the foot of federal regulators in regards to fuel economy and C02 emissions. By your logic, Dodge lied when they said the Viper would never come with DSC... And to be clear, they said no //M "Cars". The X5 and X6 are not "cars" by any stretch of the definition.
          FJM
          • 10 Months Ago
          @Peter_G
          Those kind of statements were made as late as 2007.
          PatrickH
          • 10 Months Ago
          @Peter_G
          1990? How about less than 10 years ago. And using Dodge is a horrible example. Stability/traction control is now federally mandated, Dodge has no choice. Last time I checked there's no federal mandate for cars to be overweight (though the continually stricter crash standards kinda of do).
      rsxvue
      • 10 Months Ago
      Why is there always speculation on a more hardcore version of a car that hasn't been released yet? Do you think automakers are going to reveal that kind of information and risk losing sales of the current car? Even if BMW doesn't produce a CSL-esque car, you can bet there will be many "special edition" cars.
        Rr778
        • 10 Months Ago
        @rsxvue
        In this case is have to say the lack of progress in power of the m certainly made it a target. Without the power to be competitive in the price point the fanbase will be very disappointed and will certainly pull for a better handling lighter weight version with more power.
          infra
          • 10 Months Ago
          @Rr778
          Only if you think a single number tells you everything about an engine. Which means you've probably never driven many high performance cars.
      sodamninsane
      • 10 Months Ago
      No. The 500 different editions of a car just prove that you couldn't get it right the first time, and for each subsequent time after that, you kind of didn't get it right EITHER. BMW is doing the perfrect thing by making pushing the vehicle to the limit from day 1. Or, at least advertising it that way. The reality is it's not as hardcore as a csl... but since all the carbon roof, and other stuff that the CSL had is already on the car, the only way you could make the new M3 / M4 more hardcore is to strip out the interior panels and weld in a cage.
        Chris
        • 10 Months Ago
        @sodamninsane
        Which they did in the last car but it was only sold in europe
      Rr778
      • 10 Months Ago
      With all of the success of the Mercedes Benz black series line of cars, it's surprising to see BMW not want to compete Mercedes. Can't wait to see the m4, c63, z28, gt500 head to head.
        Eraun Petry
        • 10 Months Ago
        @Rr778
        what type of success are the black series cars having? they barely sell even in the niche market they are in
      Armon
      • 10 Months Ago
      Even if BMW thinks they have the perfect performance street car, with the perfect balance of handling, comfort, noise isolation, etc., that is no reason to avoid making a hardcore version that is more balanced toward track use with things like stiffer suspension, less sound deadening, etc. It doesn't mean that one is "better" than the other. I mean, look at the 911 turbo versus the 911 GT3. One is balanced more toward the street, one more toward the track. Different people want different things.
        Sean
        • 10 Months Ago
        @Armon
        They made more track-oriented GTS and CRT editions for the E92 and E90, respectively. This article seems to be exclusively focusing on a CSL nameplate. Which, to be honest, the upcoming F8X M3 and M4 have blown out of the water when we're talking about relative chassis modifications and weight reduction. I wouldn't rule out the idea of a RS-type model in the pipeline.
      GalaxyDental
      • 10 Months Ago
      I agree with previous poster- different harcore models only highlight how poor the original is.
        davido
        • 10 Months Ago
        @GalaxyDental
        What hardcore usually means is that the car is quicker (good if you're actually going to use it), noisier and stiffer. Stiffer usually comes with poorer ride quality. Don't know why that's an "improvement" unless it's a week-end toy driven fast and only on good roads. If the original has the balance of ride, handling and NVH that makes for a good daily driver then the original wasn't poor, it was "right" from the start. Anything after that is about making a road car feel more like a race car.
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