Cool. I don't share your strident belief that we need to pay more taxes to deter us from using oil, but if you really feel that way I give you credit for standing up for what you believe.

But I don't share your feelings. So how about this: since you're so dedicated to regulating the price of fuel and creating an artificial economy that benefits the government and further deters us from using oil, you can pay your share AND mine. Since you feel that's so important and all, you can demonstrate it by paying double.

OK?

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Well said.

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See i don't think its fair for me to pay for the harm that you cause.

But let me ask you this question, which would you take a $1 tax on gasoline or war in Iraq? Cause if you think about it, if we had that tax in 2000, by 2003 we would have used million of barrels less. Less money for Sadam, for Iran, for hezbolla, for hamas.

That tax would avoid a 40 billion dollars a month disaster called Iraq, that tax would have made it tougher for Iran to make money, Iran finances both hezbolla and hamas. So that $1 tax would have avoided at least 3 different wars. Not bad at all if you ask me.

So let's see, which is better, avoid deaths of hundreds of thousands of people or allow Johny Doublechin to continue to think that he is a construction worker because he spends half of his paycheck in Home Depot?

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I don't know why people always try to focus the blame game on evil Americans and how they just love to pollute. It is a part of our society the automobile. We have vast expanses of land that aren't easily managed by public transportation. There is a reason we are the largest car market other than 'Evil Americans buy lots of vehicles because they love to pollute.' It is a tired argument and is just old and silly. We need to focus on advancements with clean coal, we are sitting on a sh*t load of it.

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Well i am an American myself, and i do not think we are evil. I just think that some people in this country should start driving vehicles that get better MPGs. Look at the end of the day its our money that fights against terrorism.

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Jake B, sorry to say this but it is "Evil Americans" as you put it. Without even counting the fact that the US is based on a very wasteful idealogy (4% ofthe world's population making approximately 25% of the world's pollution), the fact is that in the US, the thirst for big, powerful and well... thirsty cars is disproportionate to the resources available and the rest of the world.

A gas tax would do you good I think. It didn't make the other side of the world implode on itself, so what would change in the US except far more efficient public transportation and road systems?

Nothing comes for free in life.

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jrhmobile:
Your argument is as dumb as last time it was brought up on here.

If the point of the tax is to discourage excessive gas consumption, it only works if it is mandatory, not if just a few people pay it voluntarily.

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I agree that we need to tax in order to spend, however I believe that if we are going to spend we need to spend a little more and buy the quality roads such as those in Europe that are 2-3 times thicker and last 3-5 times longer. Its always cheaper to do something better today than poorly 2 more times later.

I also believe that we as a country needs to put stiffer tarriffs on ALL imported goods including a tax on oil. This will get us off the addiction of any every thing that Americans are addicted to.

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Wide open spaces? Poor public transit. Give me a break. Canada is bigger than the US and VIA rail train service is horrible and at least twice the price of Amtrack. On average we drive smaller vehicles than Americans but that's not hard to do. The whole world makes do with smaller vehicles than we do. We all need to downsize.

Personally I have absolutely no problem with paying gas taxes to fix roads. Roads have to be paid for somehow. For those of you who don't believe in gas taxes how do you propose paying for road repairs?

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I don't normally bite, but in this case I'll rise to the occasion.

For the record, I don't want to pay more for driving OR fight a war in Iraq. Thanks for putting up that straw man; I'm happy to knock that down for you.

I also don't think I personally caused the war in Iraq, nor do I think my millions of contemporaries did by exercising their God-given, All-American right to free transit. Any more than I think letting the government pick our pockets by boosting the gas tax will do much of anything to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.

You're rationalizing that building an artificial environment to justify government action will actually fix exaggerated and unrelated problems, instead of considering how it will create new ones.

If you want to find that in your playbook, look under "War, Iraq."

And before you start lobbing right-wing reactionary firebombs at me to hide your faulty logic, let me tell you that I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU and most of my friends get their jollies calling me on my liberal politics.

Since you have no problems putting words in my mouth, I suspect I'm a different kind of liberal than you. I'm the type that believes everybody is entitled to enjoy the same freedoms I do. Even Johnny Doublechin, whether I like him or not. That's different than the type that believes that only they are enlightened and that by lobbing a half-dozen verbal jabs, they can determine how stupid the lesser people are around them.

But hey, thanks for playing. If you can play nice like the rest of us, you're certainly welcome to join us. Not to speak for others, but you're certainly welcome to take a copy of the home game if that doesn't appeal to you.

See ya over at the Kos.

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jrhmobile:
I don't get how you say the war in Iraq is unrelated. If it was for any understandable reason, it was to ensure a supply of oil. Oil we wouldn't need if we reduced or eliminated our reliance on foreign oil.

Then again, the war in Iraq might just have been for completely nonsensical reasons.

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@Sea Urchin. To add to that, we've got a crumbling infrastructure that we can't pay for. The gas tax is the same dollar amount this summer when gas was $4.50 / gallon as when it was $1.20 back when I was in high school. Everybody (including me) on here wants nice smooth roads to go fast on, but some people don't think that they should have to pay for them. Nothing's free in life, including good roads.

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@why not the LS2LS7?

Tragically, I think the reason we may never find out why we went into Iraq IS because nobody really knows. I'm truly afraid couple of well-placed somebodies will never confess they just decided to do it, then find a reason to explain it. That's why, I truly believe, the Bush administration put out so many discounted explanations.

I don't believe that gas taxes shouldn't be raised to fix our roads. To do that, some extra cash will probably have to line some pockets to get things done. After all, if infrastructure projects were just for the benefit of the public, there wouldn't be so many rich businessmen chasing for them. And I'm all for allocating R&D money to develop alternative energy sources, even though it's currently driving up the price of food. It'd really suck if the agri-business lobby squelched cellulosic ethanol to prop up corn prices. At least in these cases, taxes levied are designated to actually do something.

But to think this will create perfect order, using taxes to artificially raise the price of commodities to a choke point that discourages their use, seems un-American to me. These aren't unintended consequences that'll be suffered by the American public; they're being dismissed by narrow interests because the burden of many is inconsequential in the face of their so-called enlightened, but wholly unrelated and often unexplained, vision of doing public good.

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@ JHR

This is not about politics or liberal or conservative


This is about USA being addicted to oil. By cutting that addiction (which i believe you called exaggerated and unrelated) we can end wars clean environment and more.


I was reading news, as we speak Israel and hamas are at war, hamas gets ALL its money from Iran, which gets its money from oil. Saudi arabia, which is the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world gets all its money from oil.

Also, my man think globally, yeah here in USA we had Sept 11, a one time terror act. But other countries suffer from terrorism all the time, one way or another oil money plays a part in it.

So i will ask you to do something so radical, so obscene, so revolutionary.......you will hate me for this, your wife and your family will want me dead...................................JHR I right here right now ask you to trade in your Honda Accord and get a Honda Civic....is that too much to pay for freedom?

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Seaurchin,
Get your facts straight. Dollar cost of the Iraq war is $12B per month.
And the last time I checked this is still a free country and not you or any other tree hugging liberal is going to tell me what I can drive, where I can live and how big of a house me and my wife are going to own.
Taxes are a necessary evil, of which I'm more than willing to pay my share. But this gas tax in way over the line. What part of "they won't spend it on the roads" is it that you don't understand. Taxing gas at this time will do nothing more than prolong this recession. People are hurting and lower gas prices have given them at least some relief. But no, that's not good enough for liberals, tax em more and then tax them again.
You want alternatives? Fine. Let's get them done. Then, when the infrastructure is in place to support them, tax the gas. We all know their going to tax the hell out of the alternatives.
Your liberal mesiah, Obama, promised big tax breaks for the middle class. Do your homework. Every tax break he promised is negated by all the tax increases he and your liberal morons have contrived for February surprise.
My real estate taxes went from $6450 to $7140 this year, sales tax here in Cook county are now the highest in the nation, gas tax here in Illinois are the third highest in the nation, My business tax went up 11% though my business is down more than 30%, Registration fees for my trucks went up 10%, and what do I get in return? A promise of more and more taxes. You tree hugging liberals are pathetic.
I propose a new tax. A tax on idiot liberals. If you register and vote for liberals you should automaticaly pay a tax on issues. If you believe in the great lie that autos are responsible for global warming, $1000.00 tax. If you believe the Prius is enviromentaly friendly, $5000.00 tax and mandatory therapy. If you believe Nancy Putsloser and Harry Dweeb know more about the Auto industry, economy and enviroment than a kangaroo, $10,000.00 tax, mandatory therapy and deportation.

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@jrhmobile
"But I don't share your feelings. So how about this: since you're so dedicated to regulating the price of fuel and creating an artificial economy that benefits the government and further deters us from using oil, you can pay your share AND mine. Since you feel that's so important and all, you can demonstrate it by paying double."

C'mon.... it sounds like you advocate that people just be able to decide when and where their taxes are spent. Taxes have NEVER, EVER worked that way. If that were so, I could deduct all the money that was spent invading and rebuilding Iraq since I didn't support that war from the very beginning. Right? Does that even begin to make sense? In short...No.

Unlike Iraq, in the long run, a tax on gasoline will benefit us all. Some of that money will be used to improve the roads. Some will be used to improve public transportation which will benefit people in cars since it could reduce traffic and over the long run, will probably make gasoline cheaper since we will be using less of it. For the money the US government has spent so far in Iraq, we could have improved the US immensely. Instead, we have just barely moved Iraq sideways if not made it worse.

The only problem we have to be vigilant of is corruption or misappropriation of those tax dollars.

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Caddy V, again i do not want to bring politics into this, but i am a Republican, and i'd like to think a very conservative one.

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Sea Urchin, It must be tough living your life being so jealous of what everyone else has. And believing that what they got was NOT thru their own hard work and efforts. But you are more than willing to let the Soft Drink (Obama) tax away and give some of that to you, who did nothing to earn it. Oh wait you say, I don't want any of that tax money, I just want the taxes for the "children". You will be the first to line up for all the "free" goodies that the Soft Drink will offer to buy future votes. "Free Healthcare", "free drugs", "free school lunches", "free housing", "free lawyers" to sue evil big corporations (except those corps that give payola to the Soft Drink and his minions).

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@ Frank

What are you smocking. I do not want anyones money. I am just saying that we need tax tax to kill our addiction to oil. Also as i said i am a Republican, now maybe in your world to be a Republican you must hate environment, love war in Iraq and think that saudi arabia is a democracy but i guess i am somewhat different than you.

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