In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Road Test Editor Zac Palmer. They kick things off with a roundup of the week's news, and of course the first photos of a pre-production electric Dodge Charger Daytona are the first topic. After that, the pair chat about the possible demise of the Jeep Wrangler 392 via a Final Edition meant for 2025 and ruminate on if they'd be up for buying one of the many Teslas that Hertz is offing from its rental fleet for cheap. Once the news is wrapped, the two move along to what they've been driving, starting with the first drive of the 2024 Acura TLX Type S. Then, they welcome our new Subaru WRX long-term test car and review both the Nissan Altima SL AWD and Nissan Pathfinder Platinum.
Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.
Transcript[AUDIO LOGO]
GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to the "Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. We have a great show for you this week. We finally have a look at the new Dodge Charger. Stay tuned, this is going to be good. We'll talk about the Jeep Wrangler, the 392 perhaps being donezo. And would you buy a secondhand Tesla from Hertz? We're going to talk about that. We've been driving some pretty cool things, like the TLX Type S. The Subaru WRX joins the Autoblog long-term fleet. And I have spent some time in Nissan's Altima and Pathfinder. We will spend your money.
With that, we'll bring in road test editor Zac Palmer. How are you doing, man?
ZAC PALMER: I am doing great. There isn't a tree on my roof anymore after this winter storm we just had, so that's cool. How's it going over on your side of the world?
GREG MIGLIORE: That's a great reminder. I need to call the city. A huge branch fell down across the sidewalk. And I've been told they will come and drag it away and chainsaw it. I do have a new electric chainsaw that I probably should charge up and review. And we could do a commerce play or something for it, put it in a gift guide. That being said, it's like 8 degrees. So I think I'm going to call the city. Let's see. It's a really big branch too.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, no, this is crazy. Everybody's having massive tree problems here. I guess, welcome to Michigan winner, finally. [LAUGHS]
GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome to the 2025 Dodge Charger. This is the Daytona Coupe, preproduction form. You wrote the story, which I've got to believe was pretty fun. Cars like this are why I got excited about automotive journalism, is you would see the next-gen Charger or Camaro on the cover of, say, "Autoweek," where we both worked in our early days. And you would really dig into it. So I'm pretty excited about this car.
We finally are getting a sense of what it might be. It looks like it's a coupe. I don't see a B-pillar in there, which is kind of neat. Frankly, it looks like the concept. But we don't really know anything else. So no powertrains, nothing else. We think it's likely going to be gasoline and electric. Initially, they mentioned they were going to go all-EV with this application. And they showed the electric concept car. But since then, we've heard you fairly substantial rumors that that Hurricane I6 might make its way into the new Charger, which I think we all would like.
So you see something on the back fender, whether that's a charge port or a gas tank, who's to say? But it's pretty clear, they could have photoshopped that out. It's pretty clear that's in there for a reason. So what do you think?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, man, this was a really neat one. It was just dropped on socials late last Friday out of nowhere. Dodge didn't really preview it or anything. They were just like, hey, here it is. And to your point there about being electric or gasoline-powered, I was doing some sleuthing, looking around and whatnot. So it does have the Fratzog logo up front, which is the same logo that was on the electric concept. So that was one indication that this one is probably the electric one. But then the other one was, looking out back, this one does not have exhaust pipes on it.
So I was really thinking that this is indeed the electric version of it. It also says Charger Daytona. You can see the latter part of that imprinted in the lower rear bumper of it. So I guess they're going to stick with that name that they had on on the concept.
This is also some pretty good confirmation that the Charger, I guess, is going two-door now. Obviously, Dodge split it between Challenger and Charger here as of late. The Charger was four-door. The Challenger was the two-door. Now the Charger is apparently a two-door coupe. So that's pretty cool. It's obviously nothing new there. If you look back in the history of time, the Charger has been a two-door coupe in the past. There's nothing super-ununtoward or weird about that. But it is indeed notable.
And like you said, we don't have any performance specs. We don't even know what version of Charger this is beyond, I think, it being electric. There will obviously be various trims and whatnot. But right now, we're kind of just left guessing. I suspect that it's a fairly high-performance version, as I just look at the size of the rear rubber back there. Those are some pretty meaty tires. And it's just-- and it is a good, good-looking car, I think.
And man, we don't have many two-door electric coupes out there these days too. So this is going to be pretty cool when it launches later this year. We'll actually have a two-door electric car that you can go buy. And it should be pretty fun. So yeah, this was a fun, fun little news drop with a lot of hidden tidbits, I think. [LAUGHS]
GREG MIGLIORE: So a lot of things to unpack here. One, you mentioned about electric coupes. I've been saying, hey, Camaro, this is your opportunity. Well, it looks like Dodge perhaps beat you to it right here with the two-door Charger. In some ways, moving the Charger to full electric is-- it's very significant. But the fact that it's going two doors is, to me, just as significant. It really gets into the redefining what it is as a muscle coupe.
That obviously begs the question, what's up with the Challenger? We don't know. They haven't said anything either way. They sort of implied-- Dodge implied that both would continue. I mean, for what it's worth, we kind of were reading the tea leaves in between the lines there. We don't know. They did serve different missions. Historically, they were both muscle coupes. The Challenger slotted more as a pony car, whereas the Charger was truly this muscly beast that was competing against GTOs and Chevelles, things like that.
So it's definitely a redefining of its mission. I think you're also taking away whatever business it would find as a sedan. I don't think you necessarily want to make your Halo EV muscle car and design it for taxis and police fleets. But it is a fair amount of sales. And a lot of people do buy Chargers for daily drivers. If you make it a coupe, you're likely shrinking your audience. So I think it's going to be interesting to see how they play that from a sales volume perspective. Perhaps they think they can make that up with a different Dodge product.
And then what does that mean for the Challenger? We don't know. Perhaps the Challenger even could be-- maybe that's the highest-performance version. That's a way they could use the name in the Challenger. But again, that doesn't really track with the styling because when you look at this prepro, model it's definitely a Charger, which I think is a great thing.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, no, it is really weird that we haven't heard or seen anything about a four-door, because, yeah, the Charger absolutely did outsell the Challenger. People like four doors because they're big and super-utilitarian. That was one of the coolest things about-- you could get a Charger Hellcat Redeye, this four-door family full-size sedan with 797 horsepower, if you wanted it. They are really, really giving up on a massive portion of their customer base if they don't make a four-door.
That leads me to believe that the four-door is coming. I mean, I don't know that for a fact at all. But it just feels like it makes no sense to launch and to only have a two-door version. I don't know. Maybe they can do something like Mercedes and call it the the Charger four-door coupe, go fancy German-style that way. It seems to be a bit of a trend to go four-door coupes these days and to keep the same styling, because it honestly really seems like this this thing could just be stretched out and make it into a four-door. And the styling and design language would still totally work when you have two cars, one that's a coupe, one that's a four-door.
And that would make a lot of sense to me. But launching with the two-door, it makes a muscle car splash. You can still say, hey, we got our-- we have our two-door muscle car, Mustang, Camaro, et cetera. So I don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see because Dodge is not saying a lot so far. Just have to wait for later this year for more news.
GREG MIGLIORE: We're going to hear more this year. This is going to be one of the most anticipated reveals of the year. It's pretty far along. Even the concepts that we've seen were pretty close to being at least production-intent. While they were clearly concepts, they were not totally vaporware things. They were definitely things that could be put into production. And that's what Tim Kuniskis, who heads the Dodge brand, even said. He made it pretty clear they could build something like that.
I've driven prepro cars. I'm sure you probably have too. A lot of times there, we used to call them 99% cars or something where maybe the car was 95% done or something. And the thing that wasn't quite there was the dashboard, still the materials weren't as good, or you'd get in there, and there would be tape over the the screen or something. So I mean, as you can see from these pictures-- and we'll include a link to this, in case you missed the story. This is the 2025 Charger. It's ready to go, basically. So definitely excited to hear some more about this.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, it's right there. I mean, you just have some unpainted body panels, probably just, like you said, an unfinished interior in there. But hey, check out the photos. [LAUGHS] This is it. And they've kept most of the elements from the concept, honestly. It's a pretty faithful reproduction, as far as I'm concerned.
GREG MIGLIORE: Frankly, this is the way I would equip a Charger. I like the the black car with the dark wheels, the dark interior. It reminds me of "Bullitt" a little bit. So hey, it's a good-looking car.
All right, now on its way out, we now have the 392 Jeep Wrangler. This is something that, I guess naturally, we thought would happen. Dodge, and frankly the industry, is moving away from EVs-- or excuse me, from V-8s. And we kind of knew this would happen. The 392 Wrangler is going to be a collectible item, I would guess. It'll be a collector's vehicle pretty soon. Some leaked documents say this. Jeep hasn't said officially what's going to happen.
This is also the most expensive Jeep currently as it stands. This slots in-- the Rubicon 392 is $92,140. That's how it would spec out. So you're kind of slicing off the halo. So yeah, what do you think there, Zac?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, man. This car quickly turned into my favorite version of the Wrangler as soon as I got into one a little while back. It just the most-- one of the craziest builds, I think, that Mopar SRT has has ever put together, honestly. The Wrangler is not-- it's not meant to be a a fast performance car in any way. But the Wrangler 392 is is fast. And my god, it is so much fun. It is genuinely one of the most fun cars I think I've driven in the last year, just based on how ridiculous it is, the way the whole thing basically just rears up on its haunches and launches you forward when you slam the throttle.
The noise-- Mopar and Dodge, Jeep, et cetera, they don't do valved exhaust. This thing has a valved exhaust. The quiet mode is like, OK, it's stupid loud. And then the loud mode is like, oh, my god, you're going to wake the dead. It is just Bob and Joe built this in their garage sort of thing that is like, hey, we can do it. Let's stick a V8 in the Wrangler. Let's send it out on a crazy high note.
And it's genuinely good. It's genuinely a ton of fun to pop around in. I didn't take it off-road or anything. But this car is just tons and tons of fun. And I can see-- it looks like they're going to be doing a 392 final edition that will send it out. I could definitely see that becoming a collector's item amongst Wrangler owners and fans of the 392 and big, old Mopar V8s for years and years to come, just because this was such a unique car that was only built for a few years. And I think that anybody that has had the privilege of driving or being in one is really going to appreciate it and love it for a long time to come.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's a factory built hot rod. It's a factory built collector's item, like I said. We didn't think this would last forever because really, we talked about the mission of the Charger. The mission of the Wrangler was never to be a V8-powered hot rod. So it makes sense that this is going to be one of the first cuts as far as Jeep transitions to its electric future. But yeah, man, this is a cool rig. I will miss it. I think, for Jeep fans, this is going to be one of those rare birds that you see, probably not on a Concor lawn, but somewhere special like that in the future.
So I think it was cool while it lasted. I'll remember a lot of V8 Wranglers from covering SEMA for many years than you would. But that was aftermarket. Now it's, hey, they they finally did it. They built a factory one. You've got to give Stellantis credit, just on a high level here. As V-8s are on their way out, their philosophy was, we're going to put a V8 in basically everything. And everything gets a final edition. It was really a heck of a closing time for the V8 Stellantis-powered muscle vehicles. Let's put it that way.
ZAC PALMER: It definitely has been. I mean, I think it was just a couple of weeks ago that Dodge announced last call versions for the Durango Hellcat and the Durango 392, just another example of them like, all right, here we go, V-8s for all. We're throwing everything at the wall here while we still can.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's a V-8 party. Would you buy a used Tesla from Hertz, the rental car group that almost went bankrupt a few years ago right at the start of the pandemic? It's a little crazy to see that they're obviously still hanging around. Clearly, there's still a need for rental cars. In some ways, it was the reverse of a meme stock, if you will. Instead of it getting a ton of value, a somewhat solid business almost went under. But that's neither here nor there.
Do you think you'd buy one of these things? Or would you find another way to get a Tesla or perhaps a different electric vehicle, which we'll talk about later in the show?
ZAC PALMER: Man, as somebody who probably spends way too long researching and looking at and trying to find the most perfect car out there if I'm buying a used car, that's a definite no for me on buying a Hertz Tesla. I understand that they are cheap. It looks like they are-- they're pricing them all way under market value. But there are reasons for that, of course. These are cars with super, super high mileage.
I mean, it goes to say, with any rental car, they were not taken care of. They were not driven nicely. You can pretty much trust that they were super-charged like 100% of the charges. So battery degradation should be high. And just in general, you're getting a very rough and beat-up car. And for me, it's always worth paying a little extra to go get a car that has been really nicely taken care of by someone. At least that's that's where I would land here.
If you're buying it as an Uber vehicle or a taxi-type thing, all right, well, maybe. If it's going to continue to live a hard life, just let it continue. But you would not find one of these in my driveway, that is for sure. [LAUGHS]
GREG MIGLIORE: Same. It would be tempting, I will admit, especially if I needed a car for, say, like two years, something like that, where I knew I would be offloading it. And I wanted to maybe use it as a gateway into the electric vehicle space. A $21,000 Tesla is intriguing. That being said, with tax credits and with-- just, Tesla's gotten pretty competitive with its pricing, especially for the lower-end models. You could still be in the, I guess, upper 30s to 40s. And that's a pretty big delta. It's a big difference between a $21,000 car versus a $40,000 car. But still, it's probably not a good play.
Would I buy a car from Hertz in general? Probably not. So just the fact that it's a Tesla, it's almost like a Black Friday sale or something, where it seems a little too good to be true. And just, it probably wouldn't be a smart play, again, unless you could find one for $21,000. If you knew you were going to buy something else in 18 months to two years, maybe even less, I think you would buy this, enjoy it, and already be looking at that exit strategy. Keep all your bookmarks and things on your home screen on your phone. Keep those of the cars you're considering, because you will need another car fairly soon.
So I would say 80% no. But there's 20% of me that would consider doing this if there was a good deal, perhaps on the Hertz rental thing a few miles away. But just looking, there's none in Michigan. There's four in Ohio, and that's in Cincinnati. And none of them are all that cheap. I wouldn't pay-- here's one-- 34, we'll call it, for a Model Y with 74,000 miles on it. No, thank you. So yeah, a little too good to be true. But it definitely got a lot of people's attentions this week. Let's put it that way. Let's talk--
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, just go for it. [LAUGHS] I was going to say, the idea of Hertz dropping so many EVs, I think, is automatically going to get attention just because they made such a big deal when they bought them. And now they're not replacing them with other EVs. That's the craziness there. And I think that that'll also give give people pause. But yeah, end of story, wouldn't end up driving home with one of them. [LAUGHS]
GREG MIGLIORE: Let's talk about some cars we have been driving and might consider owning. We'll see. You had a pretty interesting first drive of the TLX. This is the Type S. It's the new refreshed model for 2024. I imagine you having a bit of a long history with Acura. You held this to a pretty, you had some thoughts going into it. How did it measure up?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, man, I've been somewhat conflicted about the TLX type S. I liked it a lot when it came out initially. I think I still like it a lot. The biggest problem for me here has always been the weight of the thing. Like it's 4,200 pounds, which for a sports sedan with, you know, 355 horsepower. It's a respectable amount of horsepower, but not a crazy amount. And it's just, it's heavy. Heavy, heavy, heavy.
Especially when you look at what else you can get for like similar pricing. You look at like the Acura Integra type S. That's like $52,000 and only weighs about 31, 3,200 pounds. This is quite clearly the sports sedan for someone who you wants a little more luxury, wants a little more comfort. And overall, just isn't as serious of a vehicle as maybe the other four door type S in Acura's lineup. This was the mid-cycle refresh. And Acura did a few things I liked, maybe one or two things that I didn't like as much.
The really cool gauges that it had before have been replaced by digital gauges. So they had these really neat white gauges in the pre-refresh model. I understand obviously, you know, everybody's switching to the fully digital instrument cluster. But I think that it did lose some character there, just staring at the dash. The bigger infotainment system, slightly different designs, like all the things that you do when you do a mid-cycle refresh.
They didn't really change the way the thing drives at all though. I was definitely hoping for a little more horsepower out of the type S. And it's, I mean, it's a great engine, three liter turbocharged V6, makes all the right noises. But it just, it's starting to feel a little flat versus some other more powerful competition out there. And that's not to say that the price is helping either because it also got more expensive this time around.
So I mean, yes, I do really like this car, and I think that it does drive so, so well. But I just don't think that it is as lustrous to me as when it initially came out a few years ago. I think that Acura could have done a few things to improve it better than it did perhaps. But, and I mean I'm, this is good, this is bad. And you look at my headline, give it some more credit.
Like I still do really like this thing because as I read through internet comment sections, I feel like the TLX gets a lot of hate for some things that it doesn't necessarily deserve, like the back seat. Yeah, it's small, but Acura wasn't necessarily making this thing for like a whole family. If you do want a ton of space, go buy the MDX type S. And just chatting with Acura on first drive events and whatnot, this was made as a personal luxury sports car. It wasn't necessarily made to be that, you know, all family everything hauler.
So you kind of got to look at it within the context of where Acura is trying to place it. And you know, if I were in the market for something that, I have this nice cushy job. I can afford a $60,000 luxury sedan. I want something that's fun, but doesn't have, I don't want to work with a manual transmission and have a super hard suspension.
Like this is really, really good. Really, really good, and I would really consider it over something like, I mean, I would definitely buy it over like an Infinity Q50 red sport. Would probably have it over the Mercedes C43 AMG. And it would be really tough between this and a BMW m340i, but there are some things that I like about the Acura more. I think it would just depend on your priorities. So tough, really, really tough car to go through I think. Just because like you said at the start, I do have a lot of strong opinions about Acura and how they're doing.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's interesting you talk about the C40 and then saying you're a little undecided over, you know, the BMW. To me, that means Acura is doing a lot of things right. Because the C40, I think is a great car. So the fact that this sedan can hang in there with it is I think definitely telling and a tip of the hat for Acura.
The refresh for 24 isn't crazy significant. Reading through your report and some other things, it's sport+ is tuned differently, the screen is a little bit bigger inside, bumps up to about 12 inches. Just some very light tweaks to the like the grill, the radar thing, and some other things. I generally like the TLX. I have driven, we had a long termer. It was the A Spec, which I thought was a very nice sedan to drive.
I didn't think you had to bump all the way up to the type S. If I were going to spend my money, I would probably just spend a little bit more and get the bigger engine with the type S. It's a good handling car. I know in your report, you mentioned the seating position, which is familiar, which is something I really liked.
You sit, you have a good view of the road, but you're also low. And to me, that gives you a great setting for how you can connect with the car and try to drive with a little bit of daily driving sportiness. And then you feel that in the steering and the suspension, which is why you would get the TLX. I don't think you buy this car for raw horsepower figures or anything like that. You buy it for its chassis tuning, and then the design, which I happen to like. It's very competitive.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. No, I mean, the chassis really is the reason why you buy this car because it is so good. It is so very feelsome. And it is, it feels like it's designed for people like us who really, really appreciate a good handling car that feels great on the road. Has a lot of great feedback, and it's just genuinely fun to drive overall.
GREG MIGLIORE: It would be a good daily driver for an enthusiast who's looking for something that is more interesting than pick your sedan, or your whatever luxury sedan, premium sedan. Like I would find this more interesting to drive and worth the extra money in it's something that would have some practical applications.
It's a little tight in there for sure. It's just based on dimensions and then the styling. It's not a huge cabin. You could certainly get a bigger sedan if that's what you're looking for. But it's a nice setup, especially if you do need something larger for like family use. You can buy your three row SUV, but this is perhaps the quote, unquote, commuter car. It's a very fun thing to have. So I'm looking forward to driving the 24 version as well. I like the TLX. I think it definitely, it's what Acura should be doing. Let me put it that way.
ZAC PALMER: I'm with you. I'm totally with you.
GREG MIGLIORE: So we have a new one. Speaking of long termers, this is the Subaru WRX. You've spent a month in it. It's got manual transmission. It has Blizzacksacks, I believe, for the tires, which is important, considering we got four inches of snow last weekend. Tell me about it. You took, you were the fittingly as road test editor. You took delivery and you're kind of breaking it in. Let's tell everybody what we have and why we got it.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. We'll just go right along with our sports sedan theme here with Subaru sports sedan. The WRX. Welcome to the Autoblog long term fleet. So we have a, an orange one, which is especially exciting. We are specifically looking at the soaring solar orange pearl paint, which is really cool.
It was a really close vote amongst the staff between that and the WR blue pearl, the classic rally blue pearl for the WRX. And like you already mentioned, we have the six speed manual. This is not the GT, nor is it the TR. The TR isn't actually out yet, which is the new, slightly higher performance version of the WRX that is coming for 2024.
But no, we have the limited trim, which is the highest trim that you can get for this car, which means you have all of the goodies. And we have even more than that. We added some accessories such as the CD player. Just in case you guys were wondering, yes, you can still get a CD player as an optional accessory in Subaru's configurator. So that's super cool. We got some auto dimming mirrors, both sides and rear view. We even got the light up Subaru badge up front. So that's a neat little fun add on.
GREG MIGLIORE: I'm so excited about that one too. That's, and the CD player, to be honest.
ZAC PALMER: Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But like you mentioned, yeah, I've been driving it around for the last month or so. Subaru has 1,000 mile break in period on it. So I ended up taking a road trip to Buffalo and back over the holidays. And that got us far and beyond the break in period, which is great. So I'm finally getting able to enjoy the 2.4 liter flat four.
It's really nice engine. I think that you're going to like it a lot more than the previous WRX's engine. I won't sully the waters too much. I know that we'll have a lot of time to talk about this car over the next year. But loving that. Man, the chassis, stiff, definitely very sporty, handles quite well. I think that everybody's going to have opinions about the suspension after this is over. And I find it especially interesting how aggressive they went with the tuning knowing that an even more aggressive version exists with the WRX TR.
But that said, it's right up enthusiast's alley. So you're going to really, really love the handling. And in the snow. Man, it has been such a blast so far. I took it out in that snowstorm that we had last week with their Blizzacks WX 90s. So it's sort of right in the center of the range, as far as like snow versus like on road drive performance for Bridgestone Blizzacks products. Really, really great in the snow.
And the WRX, basically just as you'd expect, as soon as you really, really step into the throttle, it just digs into the snow and goes. The smallest little wiggle from the rear end. If you try to throw it around some corners, no need for the emergency brake. It will drift about. You can find an open parking lot, have some fun doing donuts. It is the quintessential Michigan winter car, as far as I'm concerned. You see WRX's all the time driving around in Michigan winter.
There's good reason for it because they're just, they're simply a blast. They don't get stuck anywhere. They got plenty of ground clearance. You put, and you throw the right tires on them, and they just go. And boy, is it fun. So yeah, man, I am super, super excited to spend a year with this one. As tested, we're looking just under $40,000. $39,923.
So reasonable price for a fully loaded WRX, I feel. These start right around 32, 33. Right in the sweet spot, I feel, for performance sport compacts. So yeah, there it is. Our long term WRX. I know that I'm about to hand it off to you here soon. So be excited to hear what you think about it once you get some drive time in.
GREG MIGLIORE: I feel like I'm getting it for a good time of the year. Mid January to probably about early to mid February. I could enjoy the like, you know, its prowess in the snow. I like how it looks. Not everybody does. In fact, that's kind of maybe an understatement. A lot of people don't like the looks. Where do you land on it?
ZAC PALMER: I have been liking it the more I'm looking at it. The only, I guess, area where I'm not a fan of what it looks like is the rear bumper. I think they just have a little bit too much black plastic cladding back there. If they ended it like right around like the rear diffuser area and didn't carry it so high up into the actual rear bumper and toward the trunk, I think I would prefer that. I do like the plastic cladding on the side. I think that's cool. It speaks to the rally heritage.
It really gives it that sort of rough and tumble feel that, you know, you can take this down a gravel road, or you know actually do some like light overlanding or whatever with it. And it'll do it. And there's nothing offensive about the front design, I don't think. It still has that, the quintessential hood scoop, and really, really great Subaru styling. Yeah, I like it.
I might be one of the only people along with you that really like the design. Though that said, I know that Joel likes it. So you might get some positive comments out of him after he gets some time in it too. But man, all I've heard from friends and whatnot so far is that they do not like the way that this looks. And I think that people just need to give it more of a chance, and just really, really look it back. Hey, look at the rally heritage.
It's this way for a reason, and you know, appreciate it. Because every, I feel like that's the way with every WRX comes out. Like everybody's like, oh, it doesn't look good. Like the previous one, I remember got a lot of hate for it. Oh, it just looks like a Camry. Like OK, fine. Looks like a four door sedan. I think people really liked it by the end of that generation. And I think that the same is going to be true for this generation of WRX.
GREG MIGLIORE: I would agree with that. I think you need to give it a chance, see how it looks in real life. Because the photos, you could be like me and like it in the photos. But I mean, to be fair, the cladding does not do it any favors, especially when you look at the tail end of it there. But I mean, it's what you expect from the WRX.
If you want a cleaner design or something that's more of a classic clean aesthetic, then I don't know why you're shopping for WRX in the first place. It's always kind of had this sort of rally inspired attitude. And I'm looking forward to having this plastic stuff when I'm flying over snow that's melted and refrozen, and frozen again, and has salt on it. You don't have to worry as much because it's just plastic. If you crack it, well, I mean, I'm not trying to do that, but it happens, right? It's a lot, it's practical. So we'll see.
ZAC PALMER: Scuffed plastic, you know, is a lot better to have than paint missing off of a panel. And then rust and oh no.
GREG MIGLIORE: Exactly.
ZAC PALMER: So I think long, long term, I think the owners will appreciate the plastic.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Well, let's stay with the sedan theme here. We're going to talk about the Nissan Altima. I drove this, this is about a couple of weeks ago now. I've been actually meaning to get to it on the podcast. I drove the, this is the 2.5 SL all wheel drive sedan. So a sedan with all wheel drive. So some through lines here with the WRX.
And it came in at $37,000, almost on the nose. Not too many options here. I did get the, I got some floor mats, some illuminated kick plates. And it also had the exterior lighting ground kit, which added a bit of a vibe to it. People notice that when they were getting in and out of it. A little unexpected if you will, for the Nissan Altima. You know, for a while, it was I think Lincoln was among the first to bring back, or use lighted ground kits like that.
And now it seems like everybody, you know, you mentioned the WRX has a light up badge. It seems like everybody's using light up tools to make their vehicles seem a little more prestigious. I digress. I liked it. 19 inch wheels. A bunch of safety stuff. This one has the 182 horsepower. This is a 2.5 liter inline four, of course, with CVT.
And again, the all wheel drive was nice. I thought it was, we didn't have snow when I had this car, but it still was pretty messy out. Pretty rainy, that sort of thing. All wheel drive doesn't really help you in the rain, but hey, it's not a bad thing to have all wheel drive in December in Michigan. Early January.
Nice sedan, but to bring this all together, they did update this a little bit, but it's still, I wouldn't say it's the best in class. Far from it. I think you've got, Honda and Toyota are just doing a better job in this segment. They seem to still, I would say, care more about the Camry and the Accord respectively than Nissan does with the Altima. It's a nice car. I don't think I'd pay $37,000 for it. Do you happen to remember what the type S came at, the Acura did off the top of your head?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. That one was 59.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, 59. OK. So that's a fair amount of money. But it just seems like. So OK, so here's what I'm looking for. You could get a lower spec TLX for about 45. To me, that's 80, or excuse me, eight grand difference. You're talking about different cars, especially if you have an enthusiast vibe. Some enthusiast bones in your body. Altima is a nice sedan.
I frankly, I do give Nissan credit for keeping, sticking with sedans. That's more than you can say for really any of the Detroit three who don't seem to ever care about sedans too much. So it's, they have a placeholder there. It's still sells probably as well as it needs for them. I don't think they need this car to be the top of the heap to do what it needs to do. Its mission is to add some volume, and it still does that. I liked it. It was a very nice car.
But again, I still grade out the Camry and the Accord ahead of it. And when you think about what's in this segment, I don't think this is like saying 1975, where you're cross shopping sedan versus sedan, pickup truck versus pickup truck. You probably look at the Altima, you'd also think of the Rogue. You'd also think of maybe one of the sportier cars we've already road tested in this show. You could go in a lot of different directions.
I'm not really sure why you necessarily land on an Altima beyond the fact that maybe you've had an Altima, and you just want a very nice sedan, and that's it. It could be sort of why when my Pixel 3A broke. Its now broken twice. And the final drop is what essentially put it over the edge. It wasn't until the second drop when I realized, oh, yeah. The first drop wasn't that bad. The second drop really got it. So I had to buy a phone.
And what did I do? I was like, well, I think I'm ready to go back to an iPhone. I don't want to drop like whatever, $1,500 for the latest iPhone something pro. I just don't care. I also am pretty hard on my phones. I walk the dog. I'm getting in and out of cars. I just, I usually break my phone once a year.
So with the iPhone SE, which is like the like the Camry or the Corolla really of iPhones. It's an iPhone, which is what I wanted. But it's also the cheapest thing you can get. Doesn't have the, like the good inside guts. Like the operating system, and some of the memory. And like iPhone things that we would compare it to engine, and engines and transmissions, and suspensions that I can't fully articulate from a phone side of things. Yes.
But is it still kind of like a smaller, cheaper looking phone? Yes. To me, that's perhaps how you might land on an Altima. Is you've had Nissan's for a long time, you've had Altimas. You like it. You're not really trying to change things up with, say, like an Accord or like maybe drop down to a Civic. You just want something that's good. You know it's going to be good. You know you're going to like it, and that's how you land on this. It's still a very solid sedan, but there's just so many really interesting options out there. I struggle to think why I would necessarily land on this one.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. I'm with you. I mean, I do things like the Accord, the Camry, the Sonata, the Kia K5. All of those would kind of land above it for me. The one interesting bit about the Altima for me has been that vc-turbo engine. Obviously, the one that you did not have the vc turbo engine. So meh.
And the one weird thing there is that they don't offer the vc turbo with all wheel drive, which feels like a huge miss. And it is one thing that could actually make that vehicle interesting, I think for me, is like if you did have like the 300 horsepower turbocharged four cylinder with all wheel drive. It's like, oh, OK. Now we're talking about something perhaps a little interesting.
But Nissan doesn't do that. So they're kind of left to wallow behind some of the other vehicles that arguably do drive better than it. Like the Accord is genuinely fun to drive. The same can be said for some Camry trims, and you even when you look at like the Kia K5 GT, or like the Sonata n-line. Those are super, super cool little sedans that offer like a little punch performance, but also all of the practicality that you get with the big sedan like those. So yeah. It's around the same area for me. Just not quite cutting it. There are some things that they could do to really raise it up in my mind, but I haven't seen Nissan do it yet.
GREG MIGLIORE: One reason may be that they, we have reported that this may be it. They may kill it in 2024 or 2025. We'll see. I tend to think as long as it's selling, there's no real reason to give up that kind of sales volume. But we also said that about things like the Ford Fusion.
At the same time, Nissan doesn't have as large of a lineup as say, Ford did at that time. I don't think they want to just give up market share. So we'll see on that front. But that could be one reason why they haven't truly invested in the car the way, say Honda has done with the Accord, which the Accord just keeps getting better. And it's clearly a tentpole, you know, it's emblematic of who they are. I could never imagine a world where Honda just gave up on the Accord, whereas the Altima might go away, and we'd be like, OK. Yeah, sure. Tracks. We'll speak--
ZAC PALMER: And then, hey, I was also going to say like as as, just because we've been talking about rental cars a lot. The Altima has been a bit of a King of rental lots. I say this anecdotally because I was recently helping a friend pick out a rental car for a trip that they were going to take. And they were just going down the line at the local Hertz, and it was Altima after Altima after Altima. So hey, that's where they're getting a lot of that sales volume, and maybe one of the reasons why it's still sticking around.
GREG MIGLIORE: Perhaps. Yeah, there you go. I wonder how much of that sales volume is rental cars. Boy, it's, we've gotten to the point where we're really throwing some shade here on the podcast. But it doesn't get much better here for the Pathfinder. I had that, and I'm writing a piece, a number of thoughts I have on it. I think it's pretty good, first of all. I think it's better, and well, you know, honestly the Altima is pretty good.
I kind of have a very similar diagnosis here. This is a solid SUV. It's way better than that ancient thing they were rolling out until about 21 or 22, I think it was 21. It's solid. It, it's very capable. We got four inches of snow last weekend, and this thing was a great sled. With the ground clearance, the all wheel drive, I was plowing through everything. There's actually a little snow mode that you can queue up via the knob in the center console. Definitely had that going.
It changes the way the power is sort of sent out. So you're going to go slower, but you feel more sure footed. At times though, I just would put it back in normal and maybe try to slide around a little bit. I was pretty confident in my snow driving abilities, especially after a couple of days. So it was good in the snow. It's big. The inside is pretty nice. Mine had the captain's seats, which was a pretty nice setup, I think.
With a three row SUV, I've heard two schools of thought. One is if you're going to get three rows, why do you do captain's chairs? Don't you need all those seats? If not, get a two row. But just from having, that's a little bit of a straw man argument too. Just from needing that size of a vehicle, and you want people to move around the cabin. My family loved having the captain's chairs set up. I believe you can actually remove the second row, the second row console, which I didn't try.
But I was going through some of the docs, and it looked like that was something you could do. Was a handsome vehicle. Blue, big wheels, 20 inch alloys, had LED lights. It's, in this segment, I think everything has a tendency to look like a Ford Explorer. Nissan, Hyundai, Kia have done a good job of differentiating themselves and creating identities in the segment. Of course, Chevy's don't look like Fords. Let's be obvious there. But this one had a little bit of character. So I liked it in that sense.
Let's see, what else do I have here? Interior was pretty nice. Digital dashboard, nine inch touch screen was pretty good. The thing, like the driver, the IP in front of the driver was very useful. I thought that was helpful. And another random thing. The Bose sound system with 13 speakers sounded great. It really did. All that being said, I would go with the Rock Creek edition if I were going to get the Pathfinder.
I just thought it was, that one had a little more character. That's sort of like the off roady one. It actually slots in the middle of the lineup. This is the platinum four wheel drive. It's not four wheel drive. I don't know why they call it that way. And this one came in at like 54. So give up some creature comforts and like interior, you know, niceties. And I kind of like the Rock Creek a little bit more. I thought that was cooler.
Either way, it's your money. You figure out what trim of the Pathfinder you want. But the better move for me at the end of the day is you would probably rather spend your money on something like a Honda Pilot, a Mazda CX-90, which is going to join our long term fleet. The Explorer is very solid too, especially if you lean domestic. Or even take a look at something, step up, and see what kind of a base Tahoe.
I always think if you're cross-shopping large vehicles like this, you might want to look at what's available in the body on frame segment. Or a Grand Cherokee, or a Grand Cherokee L. So you know, another Nissan that's pretty good that I would say there's two or three other things that I would recommend ahead of it. So.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. Nissan, I mean, I think that they've done a really good job of revamping their lineup here. And I mean, if you look at this Pathfinder versus the Pathfinder that we had before it, like this is like. It's like pure gold. It's like beautiful, amazing. Like OK, cool. It's like, it's finally competitive.
But at the same token, just like you were saying there. There are others that, you know, are also better and getting better. And now Nissan still has to play some catch up to be just as good as them. That Rock Creek, I think is one way for them to stand out. But at the same time, I mean, you look around this segment. You got the Pilot TrailSport, you have Kia with their off road versions. Obviously, you have like the Subaru Ascent that is basically a rugged off road version of it from the factory.
So it's not a unique thing, but it is something that makes the Pathfinder more interesting. And I think, I mean, just even aesthetically, like the Rock Creek is kind of sweet to look at. So yeah. I mean, it's a cool car. I've heard a lot of good things from others on staff about driving the Pathfinder.
People are, you know, it's a three row SUV from Nissan that people can really get behind. But may, I mean, still not a still not a class leader. Still not one that we would instantly gravitate to, were you to ask us, hey, what three row SUV would you buy for your family? Well, might be like the third or fourth option that we would suggest for you.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well said, well said. I agree. So let's spend some money. Shawn in Fort Collins, Colorado writes, so I'm currently looking at purchasing a Lexus lc500, and I'm having difficulty deciding between a 23 coupe and a 24 coupe. New examples of both are available at various Lexus dealerships. The big improvement for 2024 is obviously the touchscreen infotainment and 360 degree camera.
The downside is that the interior aesthetics are compromised by the placement of the screen and the ugly standard wheels. Is the touchpad as horrible as everyone says? New coupes are pretty rare. And do you think the dynamic handling package is a must, or the LSD is enough? I've found a 24 coupe with a sport package. 24 convertibles outnumber the coupes by at least a five to one ratio. That's an interesting statistic. Not a single coupe for sale in Colorado. Great podcast. Thanks for your opinions.
Hey Sean, thank you for writing in. This is a great question. The LC 500, I think is one of the most beautiful cars I have had the privilege of driving, really ever. It's just really stunningly. I remember the concept they showed. The Detroit Auto Show when it was truly the North American International Auto Show probably 10 years or so ago.
It's just a gorgeous car. I don't think you're going to really go wrong here, but these are some really good tactical questions. So let's unpack it. You and I, I believe, both drove the 23 LC 500 last summer. So my memory of the car is fairly fresh. The infotainment, I noticed a little bit. But obviously, we haven't driven the 2024 yet. So then there of course, there's the sport component of this. So I'll kick it over to you. How do you feel about this, Zac?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. I think we really just need to start by applauding you, sir, for going to buy a Lexus lc500.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: I don't think that enough people do. I genuinely, it is genuinely a car that if I had $100,000 plus to drop on a car, I would seriously consider doing so. Because it is so much fun to drive. So good to look at. It is genuinely one of the best new cars I think you can buy today. As for the question. As good as the car is, I think that the infotainment in the 23 and before is almost as bad.
I mean, it is just trying to turn on like the heated or cooled seats. It is so annoying. It is like a 10 to 15 second process just to get these things on. Like you can use the Lexus concierge, which automatically turns them on or off. It ain't always right though. Sometimes, you want to throw the top down or something and have the heated seats on. And you want to put the windows down while it's a little chilly. And anyways, you know, that original infotainment system is problematic in a lot of ways.
The new one I think is definitely going to fix those problems. Like Greg said, we haven't driven it yet. I cannot speak to the actual use case scenario and how the new infotainment looks in person. I, though I have a feeling, like just like you say, it not being integrated into the IP and the dash is going to be a downgrade in aesthetics for the interior.
That said, like as the user of the vehicle, as a driver, I have a feeling that I would prefer having a much more usable system, especially if I'm going to keep the car long term, than something that is just aesthetically flattering. And I think that that's really the decision that you have to make there.
And like, you should try both of them if you can. Like hop in a 23, hop in a 24, navigate through using that touchpad. It is as bad as everybody says. Like it really, really is. And the new one will be good, it won't be perfect. Just because it is Toyota's and Lexus's new software that I amongst others on staff have not loved. We definitely like it. So that's, it's such a tough question, honestly.
But I would probably gravitate just toward the 24 because I prefer usability over aesthetics probably in most circumstances. As far as like the sport package versus the dynamic handling package, it's a big money difference there. Like the sport package is 1900 versus the dynamic handling package is 6,400.
The real big thing that you get there with the dynamic is the active rear steering, and that's going to be big. However, I think it's going to depend on how you're going to use this car. Like is it going to be a daily driver? Is it going to be your like single use Canyon Carver? If it is going to be like this car that you just take out on the weekends, you only like you're buying it to enjoy driving it on back roads and whatnot.
I might have to go through that $6,400 package, and get the active rear steering, and some of the other things that come with it. If you're not, I think the sport package is fine. You know, you get that LSD. You get the performance brake pads, you get, you know, some of the base level performance things that you need. And you don't have to go searching for what is probably a needle in a haystack with that handling package.
So yeah, those are my answers. I mean, I think an ideal setup for me would probably be the 24 with the handling package on it just to have everything with it. That car, especially if you're looking to long term. That car, the 24 coupe with everything is going to be like worth so much money down the line.
And they will really, really retain their value. And you'll just be happy that you got everything. That's sort of the way that I look at 911s and all these super high dollar cars. It's like well, buy the S. Don't buy the base one because you might want the performance later on. So long answer, but that's my answer.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's a good answer. I think just to unpack this a little bit, I would go with the 24 for starters. There's a slight price difference here. It looks like the 24 starts at 998. I'm seeing the 23 for a few thousand dollars less. Again, and this is kind of underpinning my thought process here.
This seems like a car you're going to potentially keep. It's really a potential collector's item. So I don't think, especially at this price point. What's an extra couple thousand dollars? So I would definitely go with the 24 for starters there. And again, the touch screen, I think aesthetically, yes. I can picture the 23 that we drove.
But I mean, I don't think I like the screen's layout that much of that either, that I would trade that for the functionality. The potential functionality of the 24. So I would agree with you there, Zac. I would go for the new one. The trackpad sucks. It's not great. I don't know why Lexus does it. It's not as bad as some Acuras that I've driven and been annoyed by. But it's, and I will say this. You can get the hang of it.
I found this over the years of driving Lexus vehicles, where it does kind of come around after some time. But it's not great. Especially too if you're like wearing gloves, or it's, you're like me and you're eating in cars. Not that you're probably eating chicken nuggets in your lc500, but I don't know. Maybe you get hungry on the way to Laguna Seca? Who knows. It's just not the greatest experience.
So to answer your question, I don't like that part either. So it goes. But I do think getting the new screen, paying a little bit more it appears for the 24, I would do that. And then I would do the dynamic package. I don't think it's a must by any means. I think you're spot on, Zac. So essentially, I'm kind of agreeing with you on all three points here. It's not a must, but if you're already going to get the car, maybe you don't go for it. And then you have everything.
There's no little doubt in the back of your mind. Like I wish I had done this. It's definitely not a must have. But on some other sports cars, we've driven with that type of setup. I think it can be worth it. Like that Porsche is a great example. You're not going to necessarily, you're not going to regret having it down the road. So it's a great car. I think to your point there, Zac, it's a little underappreciated.
I think, frankly, more enthusiasts should look at this car. It has more character than I don't know, shots fired. I think it has more character than the SL. I haven't driven the new one yet, but it definitely gives you a very distinctive look. The BMW eight series. I would take this over that what you're thinking of just coupes.
To me, this is, we've spent a lot of time on this podcast talking about cars that don't break into that like top two or three. This one would for me.
ZAC PALMER: Same. I would have this over pretty much all of them. Like look at an M8 and SL 6355. Pretty much all of the big coupes and/or convertibles give me the LC because of that one word you said there. It's really high character. It is so much fun and yeah, you're not going to regret buying one at all.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's all the time we have this week. If you enjoyed the Autoblog Podcast, please give us five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get the show. Send us your Spend My Monies. That's podcast@autoblog.com. Be safe out there. Thanks for listening. Shout out to our producer, Eric Meyer, for making us sound good, and we'll see you next week.
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