In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by News Editor Joel Stocksdale, and they cover a wide range of topics. They discuss refreshed models from GM and VW including the new Blackwing Cadillacs, the Chevy Equinox, and the GTI. They also talk about the upcoming Jeep Wagoneer S electric SUV and the possibility of a cheap Tesla (codenamed Redwood) and even a car from Apple. Then there's a quick talk about the cars they've driven followed by our "Spend My Money" segment.
Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.
TranscriptGREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to The Autoblog Podcast. I'm Greg Migliore. We've got a great show for you this week. Lots of stuff to talk about in the car world, including perhaps the Apple car. Wow. That's something we haven't talked about in a while.
There's also something called the Tesla Redwood. It's a wild show here. Now some things you may have heard of, the Jeep Wagoneer's going electric. We'll tell you what that means. There's a new Chevy Equinox. It looks really good.
And then for some of the more enthusiastic folks out there, CT5 Blackwing and the GTI are new for the new model year. They've got some updates, some things you're going to like. We'll tell you what we think about them.
Driving some interesting things like the Buick Envista Avenir. And I got to talk to you about our Subaru WRX long-termer, which I've spent about a week in now and I'm really enjoying. News editor, Joel Stocksdale, he's been driving the Volvo XC90 Recharge. Plus, will spend your money. And with that, Joel, how are you?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Doing all right.
GREG MIGLIORE: Got a packed show here. Lots of stuff to talk about. Lots of even more stuff we could talk about.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, almost seems like some of this could have almost been at an Auto Show in January.
GREG MIGLIORE: I don't know-- I can't imagine a venue that maybe would be like, I don't know, 20 miles from where we're both sitting that they could do such a thing. I just don't know. So we'll see. Next year, mark your calendars. Detroit Auto Show moves back to January.
So a car that I think would have likely been at the Detroit Auto Show had it happen to January would be the CT5. This is I think kind of a-- I think this looks pretty good. They did some subtle updates. It's the V and the V Blackwing. So Zac Palmer, our road test editor, reported this story out.
The big news here is that the supercharged V8, that 6.2 liters, that's still going over. That's not changing. Don't worry, there's no hybrid. There's no twin turbo six or anything. Don't worry. That part of the car, totally unchanged, which I think we can all agree is a good thing, as V8 continue their glide path likely into the sunset in the coming years here.
New infotainment inside. The screens are pretty big. The grill is a bit different. I think you got to look pretty closely just in the press pictures. I assume once we get to drive this thing probably at like VIR, or who knows, Laguna Seca, you'll see it in person and you'll be like, oh yeah, this is different.
But I'm always a big fan of these Cadillac sedans. I think the most recent generation, they've really gotten it right, as far as having classy looks, but still sporty and getting that kind of V-ethos going for it. And I think it's a really good look for Cadillac. So what's your take on this, Joel?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. I mean, it's not, like, a crazy change.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: It's pretty mild. But I don't know that any of us really felt like it needed much. I mean, the main appeal is the powertrain and the suspension and stuff. And all of that is, I mean, still basically the same. And that's good because we loved it. Didn't want that to change.
And if anything we did want to change, it was probably the interior. And the new screen and infotainment, it's really nice. It does a lot to spruce up the cabin.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. And if on the outside, the lights are different, Cadillac I think is very creative for really the last almost 20 years at this point with the light pipes up front. That's a log-type cue of Cadillacs, going back to like even Old El Dorado's and things like that. So I think it's a good look. They tweaked that.
They apparently tweaked the fenders. But again, that's something we'll probably need to see in real life to get a more of a handle on. Good looking cars. Like I said, I've really appreciated this era of Cadillac design. I appreciate how they're really still hanging in there with those rear wheel drive sports sedans with the big V-8s.
I mean, even dodge is going away with a lot of this stuff, although as you can see by the Charger prototype, it's not all totally gone. But it's electric and it may be hurricane inline six. This is still a V8 powered Detroit muscle sedan. And I think that's a great thing. I think this is-- I can't wait to drive one of these. They really strike a chord with a lot of people, like us.
And you associate editor Byron Heard owns a CT4 Blackwing. So again, I think when you're getting Autoblog editors saying, hey, we really like these cars, you're doing something right, from an enthusiast perspective.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, and when you get one that actually spends his money on it.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's true. That's true. That's a good call out there. That's podcast@autoblog.com, if you'd like to send your Spend My Moneys. But something that is expected, but I think a bit of a disappointment is the GTI. So basically what happened is for this new golf that's coming here, it's only the GTI, which, hey OK, I could get on board with that. But it's also only automatic, as a dual clutch.
And to me, the true-- one of the key elements of the GTI was that transmission. Just the clutch engagement was so good. The throws were spot on. It was something, whether you were a hardcore enthusiast or somebody who was just learning to drive a stick, you could drive it and feel confident and understand just how good manual transmissions could be.
So that, I mean, you know, I almost hate to dunk on them for that. But yeah, that sucks. Overall, the Golf looks OK though. I mean, it's a small car that has a very niche market here in the United States. So I mean, on the other side of the coin, at least they're still selling it here.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And this is just a kind of mid cycle refresh for Golf. And they haven't said anything about Golf R yet, like even globally. I would expect that we're still going to get Golf R. But yeah, this refresh is definitely kind of a mixed bag for enthusiasts. Because like you said, no manual transmission anymore, which is a bummer. Because obviously, the GTI is not a super fast car. So while the dual clutch transmission is very good and we like it, this is also definitely one of those cars that can benefit from the extra engagement of being manual.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yes.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: On the plus side though, it gets rid of some of the really horrible touch buttons that Volkswagen implemented.
GREG MIGLIORE: Those were so bad.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. Yeah. And it's not just Volkswagen that is guilty of this either. There's a lot of automakers that have been doing this. Mercedes is one that jumps to mind. But the other upside is that the new GTI is more powerful. They've bumped power up from 241 horsepower to 262, which that's a solid-- that's a solid jump.
They didn't announce torque, but we're guessing it'll be basically the same as the 273 pounds feet of the current one, just because it's still basically the same engine. It's just making more power. So yeah, it's kind of a-- it feels like a step sideways more than anything.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: It's got some ergonomic and performance upgrades, but you lose the manual transmission. And that's a bummer. I do-- I do like the wheels on it though.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, yeah. They're Alfa-like almost when you look at them.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Very much so.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think for some people who perhaps may want this edition, this version of what a GTI is, there were some people who really did like the automatic transmission. Some people did. There's a reason for it. If you want to-- maybe you're using it as like a city car.
I mean, driving a stick shift in a congested urban area is not fun. So I mean, it had its fans. And of course, Volkswagen Group has outstanding dual clutch transmission.
So there's definitely some enthusiast creds still going on there. And it's a good execution. It's again, they cleaned up the interior. They snazzed up the outside.
Those wheels look good. I would like if Zac Palmer was like, hey man, you're on for the GTI next week, I would still be quite excited. You know? I wouldn't be like, yeah nah, pass, hard pass. I'd be like, that's great. How long do I get to keep it for?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And that's the thing. I mean, it's kind of the same deal with the Toyota Supra. Like, it launched with an 8 speed automatic and everybody wanted a manual because manual is fun.
But the Toyotas, the supers 8 speed automatic is a really, really good automatic transmission. And it's kind of the same deal with GTI. It's like, we really like the manual. That being said, the dual clutch transmission is really, really good. And it's still a great car with it. So it's a give and take on this one.
GREG MIGLIORE: Did you see that the Black Wings had a-- I think it was the CT5-V and the Black Wings collectively had a 50% manual take rate. I almost can't believe that.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. It's great to hear.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's pretty crazy.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, and these kinds of enthusiast cars really get a high take rate. The Subaru WRX has an incredibly high one. I forget, I think it's more than 50% of WRX buyers buy it with a manual transmission. Like, by a significant margin. So there are certain enthusiast cars that absolutely, people prefer that. And I think probably justifies developing the transmission for it.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I think at that point, you're doing what you think the market is going to bear out. So we'll get to this in a bit.
But in our long-term, I almost can't imagine not having the 6 speed manual in it. Because it would change the whole character of the car. So I mean, six speeds are standard on the WRX. And you have to literally change to the Subaru performance transmission, which I don't think we'd really want to do.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And just to clarify, the Subaru performance transmission, it's a CVT by a fancy name.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yes. Yeah. That's a good point. Say the quiet part out loud. There you go.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, and I think probably one of the reasons that we're not seeing the manual in the GTI this time around is, well, for one thing, I think demand has dropped in Europe, I think. And also Volkswagen is going to be looking at emission standards that it might be difficult to meet with the manual transmission.
And the fact that this is probably the last-- I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing this is going to be the last generation of the Golf before-- before we get an all electric one. So Volkswagen is not looking to spend more money on this vehicle, this platform because they're like, we're sinking our money into the next generation that's going to be basically all electric, maybe plug-in hybrids.
So there's no-- and there's not much else that they're going to put-- there's not much else that they're going to put this manual transmission into. The GTI is kind of a last thing. So I think that's what we're seeing here, is that they're winding down this Golf generation. It's kind of like the last bits and pieces. And that's why it's going away.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting too when you look at how much I think Europe colors Volkswagens overall strategy. Take rates of electric vehicles in Europe are far outpacing the United States. Were at like maybe 8% this month if everybody gets their tax credits it goes to the dealership. That's what S&P is estimating.
They were like-- last year, actually as in 2022, they were over 12%. So they're already over I think 15% at least. So I think Volkswagen, for a lot of reasons, is frankly, trying to push more electric vehicles. They've invested in them, which is a long-winded way of saying things like the Golf and the GTI are exiting stage left.
And again, sort of like the Blackwings and the Cadillac-- the Cadillac rear wheel drive cars. If you want one of these kind of outgoing soon to be dinosaurs, it's a good time to get one. They're new. They still have a lot of nice technology on them. And perhaps they have the powertrain that you'd rather have right now. So they're there at your local dealer.
All right. You saw the new Equinox, 2025. This is a little bit like a placeholder, if you will because it's the gas powered car. But it's very significantly updated. A new platform, which kind of caught me by surprise. The only thing that really isn't changed is the powertrain, which again, is gasoline and it's just the four cylinder, a very small displacement four cylinder.
But looking at the pictures, I thought, wow, they really gave it some of that really good Chevy DNA, like what we've seen in the Blazer, the Trax, things like that. And for a while, the Equinox almost seemed to me kind of like the less attractive, grocery-getter crossover that you just maybe bought out of habit. Because I looked at the Blazer and I'm like, well, the Blazer is way better looking.
And then of course, the Trax, the Trail Blazer, again, vehicles that have more of an identity. But I would say the Equinox finally has an identity, and a lot of other enhancements. So you saw this thing in person. There's some nice pictures on the site. What was your take?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I absolutely agree. The old one had strong generic crossover vibes about it. And this one looks much chunkier and more rugged and has a little bit of personality to it. So the exterior is a big improvement. I'm actually quite fond of the new active trim that they've launched, which is the sort of rugged. I mean, it boils down to styling and some all terrain tires on 17 inch wheels.
So I mean, it's not like that rugged, but for a lot of people, that's all that they really want or need. I like that it's-- I like the two-tone paint schemes. The Active has a white roof, the RS has a black roof. And what I was really impressed by was the interiors on the Active and the RS.
They're a huge improvement. It kind of feels like a higher end, much larger version of the Trax interior. It's very sculpted. It's got big flat panel screens ahead of you. It's got lots of nice upholstered finishes on the dashboard and the door panels. I really like, on the kind of turbine style air vents, there are plastic trim pieces that go around them. And they're like a translucent plastic, kind of like old Macintosh computers from like the 2000s.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, wow. That's really neat.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. I really dig it. And the Active and the RS, they each have nice faux leather seats with perforated inserts. And each one has a different perforated pattern. The Active has this nice kind of saddle brown color with some bits of microsuede. The RS that I saw was black leather and it had red and blue contrast stitching, which sounds like a lot, but it actually, nice and subtle, looks really good. I was really impressed.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, those vents, that's a great point. I saw those in the pictures and I thought it reminds me a little bit of like the Camaro, what they were doing there for a while. And props to Chevy. I think we've been pretty hard on a lot of GM interiors with good reason, but especially with things like the Equinox, where it totally seemed like this farm of hard plastics and other weird plastic-like materials.
Really turned it around for this generation, I guess we could call it. The new platform was something I wasn't quite expecting. So I imagine it'll ride a little bit better.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. That was something I was surprised at too. Because like we were just talking about with Volkswagen, it seems interesting to have invested that kind of money in that, but I suppose this is probably also going to underpin unannounced products from like GMC and maybe Buick and stuff. So it could just be that this is just the first of a number of vehicles that we'll be using this platform.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. That's sometimes I think a way they can-- as much as we're like these enthusiast media and industry watchers obsessed with platforms, sometimes it's really-- we tend to overcook it. It's not that big a deal. Like the new Mustang carries over on an existing platform. Technically, it's not a new generation. I don't think technically anybody cares.
But at the same time, huge companies like GM, Volkswagen, that thread of the podcast that have massive scale, when they're building a new generation of things, a lot of times, they just have a new platform that is going to be used by like five or six or seven vehicles. And it seems like that's the case here. And that makes sense. This is a very adaptable size. The Equinox is right in the middle of really everything they make.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, and also this is, I'm guessing they've had this timed out where it's like this is almost assuredly the last gas powered Equinox. So they're probably like, OK, we know that they're still going to be this gap between when EVs go fully mainstream and our current gas Equinox is pretty old. It'll make sense for us to go ahead and launch a new one. But we'll only have to maintain it for the life of that generation, and it's over.
But yeah, I was a little bit surprised. I'm a little bit disappointed that they didn't announce any kind of hybrid option. It's still just the 1.5 liter turbo four cylinder, which is a fine powertrain. The power is on par, it's competitive enough with the segment. But Chevy has had good hybrids in the past. And so it would have been kind of nice to see that on offer.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I think especially if it was perhaps a conventional hybrid, not a plug-in hybrid and they kept the price competitive. I bet they would have had a significant take rate. I think people would have been interested in that because it probably would have been a little more interesting to drive and a little more efficient than this. You know, again, tiny turbo, turbo 4.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And I think that there will be people that like this more rugged looking version of the Equinox compared to the electric Equinox, which for the record, I really like the electric Equinox. I actually saw an all blackout version on the street the other day because I live right near the GM tech center, I see this kind of stuff. So it would have been interesting to see a greener version of this gas-powered version.
Although I'm also guessing that Chevy's thinking was, we're going to have plenty of Equinox EVs. And if you want the greener version, we're not going to sell it for a whole-- I mean, because the Equinox EV is supposed to start like mid $30,000, which isn't-- that's not a big upcharge compared to like regular gas powered Equinox's. So maybe offering the hybrid would have been tricky when you've also got the full EV for not much more. Then again, I don't know. I mean, there's going to be buyers that are like, I can't do an EV yet for whatever reason.
GREG MIGLIORE: Right. We're at that like, I don't know if tipping point is the right way to put it, but we're at this transition phase where a lot of these vehicles are competing with each other in some ways because consumers are really not sure. I've talked to a lot of people about EVs lately. It feels like if-- just for a lot of people, if they're looking to buy a car, they're like, OK, I've been hearing a ton about EVs. And then they'll, you probably get this too, they'll be like, well, what do you think and where can I charge this thing?
And you try to give them both the good and the bad sides of it. And I think for many people, an easy recommendation is a hybrid or a plug-in hybrid because you don't have to think about it. And perhaps that's where there would have been some space for the Equinox, but neither here nor there at this point.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, and also I'm guessing GM was also thinking, we're going to have more equinox EVs actually available at the time that this gas one is coming out.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's true.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Because that's another thing that they're working on that they're having a little trouble with.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's true. Yeah, I mean, the other side of EVs with GM specifically is, almost everything they said at the end of 22 that would be there or would be around in 23 has really taken a very long time to get here, and it's 24, early, end of January. And some of those things are just finally achieving any sort of scale. So we'll see.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I'm finally seeing Cadillac Lyrics on--
GREG MIGLIORE: I was just thinking that. Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: But obviously, that's only a piece of the pie because-- is Blazer off of it stop sale yet, or is that still?
GREG MIGLIORE: Don't think so. So they're again, they're in a bit of a bit of a tough spot, I think, it seems like.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And I'm sure that this was-- I'm sure this was not planned. I'm sure this was-- just things in the background that we have not heard about have probably stacked up a little bit. And
GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, even Mary Barra, their CEO, said in her end of year interview she does in Detroit, yeah, we were disappointed. This is not what we thought how things would go. We want to sell more of them, obviously.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, because I'm sure that-- I don't think their strategy was bad, but clearly, some things have gone wrong that were not anticipated.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I mean, to go back to the Blazer, we did that story on the-- we sort of aggregated, for lack of a better way to put it, the disaster Edmonds had with their Blazer. And it just-- sometimes when things go sideways with new technology, they really go sideways.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And I mean, it can happen-- it can happen to anybody.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, yeah. Yeah, it definitely can go-- yeah, I mean it's not exclusive to General Motors. We've seen it with many different automakers. I have not seen a start sale for the Blazer. I've done some furious googling here. I have not seen one. They issued it late December. And they're saying it-- you know, it impacts a limited number, but yeah, I don't know.
It came out right after that Edmunds report that a lot of people, including us, wrote up on. And then MotorTrend gave it their Vehicle of the Year. And they have a story talking about how, yeah, we didn't really know this was going to happen. So I mean, it's tricky. I guess we'll hope for better luck for the Wagoneer S-EV. We've got kind of a good looking teaser shot of it.
It looks like a Jeep. Looks kind of like a Wagoneer. We don't know much else. We knew this was going to happen though, that they were going to have an all wheel drive electric Jeep wearing the Wagoneer badge. It's going to have, of course, four wheel drive and 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds with 600 horsepower, reading right from our story. So that's kind of cool.
Jeep is allegedly, I think 2025 is the time they've said they're going to really have most of their lineup electrified in some form. This one is a 2025 model year. So we think we'll hear something soon. Beyond that, if you actually do some googling, it looked like there's some leaked images out there that seemed a little just too sketchy for us to pick up. But they're out there.
And of course, we have this story on our site. Honestly, this seems more like the Wagoneer I would be interested in. The sort of battle cruiser refrigerator-on-wheels that they rolled out a few years ago, while very nice and it's definitely a formidable competitor to things like the Escalade, the Navigator, the Tahoe, et cetera, I don't know. I kind of thought-- I would have liked to have seen a different approach for the Wagoneer name.
Although the business case, I'm sure, would prove me wrong. I'm sure Jeep did it that way for a reason. But this is a little more different, kind of special. And I think it could get a lot of customers for Jeep. So
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. So from the teaser, I mean, it looks like it's going to look pretty much just like the concept that was shown-- oh, wow-- just over a year ago, at this point, which looking at it, kind of reminds me of like a sleeker, kind of rounded version of the Grand Cherokee, to be honest. And I'm guessing it will actually probably be closer to Grand Cherokee in size and proportions. But probably more luxurious and also, of course, much quicker and sportier. Kind of like Range Rover-- kind of like Land Rover, Range Rover Sport, or even the [INAUDIBLE].
GREG MIGLIORE: That's a good way to put it.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And it'll be interesting to see how it goes because I know that the styling of the Wagoneer's is kind of divisive, and I get it. But at the same time, I think they did go the right way with that being very blocky and boxy and kind of truck-like. Because I think that segment likes that. I mean, it's going up against Tahoe and Sequoia and Expedition.
And they're all very truck-y. I mean, they're all based on Full size trucks. So is Wagoneer, it's based on the RAM platform. So I think that was the right move. Plus a box is very practical.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, that's true. To me, when I think box, I think Jeep Commander. Remember that thing? So yeah, the Wagoneer's a better name.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And like, I wasn't in this business when Commander came out. I know that there were many complaints about it, and probably a lot of them legitimate. I always thought it looked cool, at least though.
GREG MIGLIORE: I did too. I agree, actually. I did too.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I think I even liked the way it looked better than Grand Cherokee.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh. That's a hot take. I think the Grand Cherokees from that time, actually, I like a little better. They were Jeep-y. And frankly, that would be a decent winter beater, you know? Like a 07 Grand Cherokee with those kind of fender flares, get it in green. I'd drive that car. I'd drive that car all summer too.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. Actually I even think Commander is a pretty decent name.
GREG MIGLIORE: I agree. I agree. For me, it's not so much, it's the way they used Wagoneer, I guess, that's what I'm saying. I would have-- when I think Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer, I think of those things from the 80s, the 70s and 80s. Retro is probably not the right way to go. So luxurious and expensive is if you want to make money. Nostalgia doesn't necessarily hit the bottom line.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And truthfully, I mean, the old Wagoneers were, toward the end of their life, quite plush SUVs. So it fits the bill. Yeah, Wagoneer S, it'll be interesting. I imagine it kind of like a very luxurious, refined take on the Grand Cherokee SRT.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. That's true. Well, speaking of electrics, I think it's a good transition over to Tesla. We're recording this on Wednesday morning. Tesla is actually going to report its earnings later today. So come check that out on our site. We'll have that by the time you're listening to this. It'll be the weekend.
Hopefully, you are, I don't know, I always say in the summer, grilling. Maybe you're on your way to go do some skating on a frozen lake, you're on your way to a hockey game, it's sledding season. That's good. You're going for a nice snowy walk in the woods. I don't know, wherever you get the Autoblog Podcast and consume it. Don't forget, you missed Tesla earnings, we'll have it. Check those out.
But something we expect to hear something about is this new electric, a more mass market vehicle. They've called it Codenamed, Redwood. That's according to Reuters. We expect to see it in the middle of next year. And this would be perhaps a compact crossover. So I can only assume it would slot in below the Model Y, if I'm doing my Tesla math correctly.
It seems like they need some new products, to be honest. I think something like that could add some scale, which would be good. Tesla's, I think they're doing-- and it'll be interesting to hear how these numbers bear out, but I think they're doing a good job of doing better than treading water, which means I don't think they're blowing the doors off of anything, but they're making money usually.
They're usually hitting analysts expectation. They're capitalizing on a market that for the moment is EV friendly. There could be a lot of headwinds. And I think the one thing that we've seen lacking is new vehicles, outside of, of course, the Cybertruck, which is either going to be a home run or a DeLorean. We just really don't quite know which is going to land there. But how are you feeling about Tesla?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: So this is interesting. Because I'm pulled in two different directions on this one. On the one hand, I would imagine that, especially if this is a very budget vehicle, Tesla has definitely refined their motors and battery setup a lot for Model 3 and Model Y. And they clearly have figured out how to make those fairly affordably, considering all of the price drops that they have been rolling out on those vehicles.
So I'm assuming that they would probably use most of those components. And they've got the costs and stuff figured out on that. It's all fairly affordable. They don't necessarily need to do anything new to it. So that would be a way to both keep costs down, and to jumpstart development.
On the other hand, the company hasn't said anything even kind of concrete about this thing. We haven't seen any kind of like concept. I mean, we saw Cybertruck now, what, 4 and 1/2 years ago? And even before that, we thought we were going to see a Tesla Roadster come out.
That sure hasn't happened, despite that concept being shown very prominently. Granted, both of those are high end halo vehicles that are image builders and are something that kind of a crazed CEO can get excited about, as opposed to a budget economy car.
So and also, I don't know, considering how long it's taken to get Cybertruck out and how many resources I'm sure have been dedicated to getting that thing done, it's just hard for me to imagine that Tesla could have this whole new model out next year.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's true. When do you think of product development plans, that doesn't really track.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And nobody's-- we haven't even seen spy photos of this thing. I don't know. I mean, is it possible? Sure. But I just feel like I haven't seen much elsewhere that would really make me think that it's actually happening and coming.
It'll also be interesting to see what everybody thinks of it. Because I know that-- because for so long, Tesla has been viewed as a luxury brand and has been compared as such.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's changed a little bit though with the Y and the 3.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, a bit. And I think the continuing discounts and the fact that the vehicles are aging is starting to eat at that a little bit. It'll be interesting to see what that does with the image. And also it'll be interesting to see what Tesla does with a vehicle that is normally low margin and very price conscious segment.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, I think one thing to your point, even though they have been luxurious, they do have the sheen of getting a Tesla. So I think if you're somebody who's like, I want an EV. OK, Hyundai has this, Chevy has this, I still want to go with the Tesla.
It's literally, and I've said this on a couple podcasts, it's the same reason I went out and got an iPhone SE, just because I wanted an iPhone. I had a Google Pixel, which frankly, is a better phone in most measurable ways. But I was like, nah, I want to go ahead and get back in the iOS system. It's more what I like
And I think that's what some people may default to if they're going to get an EV. If you're going to get an EV, you get a Tesla, perhaps. It's pretty-- they still have hegemony over EV sector in the United States and the world, frankly. So I get it. And it makes sense to try to meet the customer where they are. But it's also, I think the Detroit 3 especially will tell you, and a little bit Volkswagen here, it's very hard to sell a small vehicle profitably, especially if they're going to make it here.
And to do it in a way that makes it seem anything less than a compromised vehicle. Because especially with Americans, we think of a smaller car as something as less than. We just do. We want the biggest thing you can get. Now that's obviously a bit of a trope even. But it's tough. It's really tough to make that argument.
Tesla might be the one that could cut through it and say, no, no, this is this good Redwood code name, which is a spectacular code name. I love that. I think they should call it that. Man, I don't know. It's the top voted question for Tesla investors. So it'll be interesting to see if Elon actually tackles that.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And it'll also be interesting to see because I think this is also a segment where people have much less tolerance for when things go wrong. There's a reason that people buy endless Toyota Corollas. Because they buy them and they just work. They don't do weird things. They don't have weird problems.
And that's not necessarily something you can say about a Tesla. And I think luxury buyers in general are willing to put up with odd things going wrong here and there because they're getting latest, greatest kind of thing. But I think for a lot of people, at lower price points, it's like, I'm getting this because I need a car and I need it to work and I need it to not cause me problems and be a headache. I don't need another headache on top of other things in my life.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's a great point. Because if you're really thinking logically, the answer to that is more Honda Civic, not Tesla.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: So it'll be interesting. I'm viewing this with a lot of skepticism, which is probably how a lot of things related to Tesla should be looked at.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, how about a car from Apple? They actually have never built any sort of car. And very kind of curious report this morning that they're still looking to do it, apparently. Bloomberg was the one that originally had some reporting on this.
And it made the rounds. I think this is a blast from the past. I feel like this is something we have not talked about in quite some time. It's definitely something that they seem to be really looking at, this as almost this total like rethinking the car business, especially in the mid teens when this really was more talked about. It was autonomous. It was going to be electric. It was going to look different.
Apple, Google Alphabet, it seemed like all the tech companies were trying to do it. I'm surprised Yahoo didn't try to do one. And it was like, that was the thing. And the only one that really survived was the Sony partnership. Because really, it's with Honda. And I think that one really seems like it's going to happen.
Now we're at a point where this Apple thing has appeared back out of the mist. Allegedly, it's coming in 2028, which actually seems like a more realistic frame than the Tesla Redwood products. So I don't know. My thought is, is a lot of people if there was an Apple car, would probably buy it. And I think it also could be a disaster.
Not that Apple can't do this because I think they could, but I also think building a car is extremely hard. In some ways, it's miraculous all the things that go into it. Just think of everything that's in say the new Chevy Blazer. From the touch screens, that's like doing an iPhone. Then you got to make sure the whole thing can operate safely, be fuel efficient, look good, which is what everybody thinks they're an expert in. And you meet the different needs of people.
And oh, by the way, your competitors, most of whom have been around a minimum of 70 or 80 years, some of them 120. If you're going to be good at it, you got to have billions of dollars. Apple has one of those things, billions of dollars. So for what it's worth, I think they could do it. I think consumers would be interested in a car wearing a badge that says Sony or Apple, for that matter.
I think they need a partner, which it doesn't sound like they have. And I think the autonomous vehicle stuff, you got to throw that out. That's not going to allow you to get your vehicle safely and on the market quickly.
That may be a turnoff for them too. Obviously, I have some strong feelings about it. They could probably buy the electric components. You had some hot takes this morning when I-- not hot takes, but you had thoughts when I drop this into Slack.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, first off, I agree. I guess I was also partly surprised at hearing this Apple News in part because I kind of thought we had gotten-- I kind of thought that it was over also. Back when there were the rumors of Apple and Hyundai partnering up, and then that imploded, I was like, OK, that's got to be like-- that's got to be the nail in the coffin for this whole thing.
And also the fact that Apple's autonomous development wasn't moving along the way they were anticipating. But the thing is, cars are hard. They're also really expensive to build them, to get the materials, to do the engineering, to do all of the safety stuff, all of the compliance stuff. And they're also really small margins, really small. And a very established and effective competition out there.
And all of that-- yes, Apple does have a history of blowing up a market, like iPod and iPhone, especially iPhone. But all of those were also still closely related to computers. It was still computing and electronics. And that's a big part of cars now also, increasingly so as they go electric.
But it's still a lot of dynamics and safety. And because I mean, Apple is going to need an entire crew of people to work on crash structures and suspension and brakes. And yeah, the electronics are a significant, significant component, but it's far from the only thing. And the factories, like the size, it's just it's all so expensive and it's so low margin.
And none of that is something that I think a lot of these companies actually want to do. Apple is a crazy profitable company. They make so much money on their electronics. A lot of these electronics companies do. That's not the car business.
And frankly, with Tesla, a lot of it is getting by-- I mean, yes, their cars are profitable and more so than a lot of vehicles. But I think they've gotten away a lot on they make a lot of money off of carbon credits from other automakers that other automakers have to buy to make up for their gas cars. Also they're running very old vehicles at this point that they've gotten a lot of all that sorted out.
And they've had huge amounts of investor money. And their stock is super valuable. I think it's probably very much overvalued. Because at the core, they are a car company. And that's the main thing. I mean, I think a lot of people think that there's more in there than just that there a car-- I mean, the charging network, that's something I have no idea how profitable that is, if it is at all.
I mean, I think it's very good for them as a selling point. But anyway, I'm kind of digressing a little bit. This just doesn't seem like it-- this just doesn't seem like an industry that Apple would really want to get involved in. I mean, a company that like is so profitable at what they do and has freaky huge cash reserves, like actual cash on hand, it's not even just assets. They have money, just there.
I don't know. They could do it. I think they could. I just don't know that they actually would want to.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, sometimes I think you see this, especially when CEOs have been around a little while. And Tim Cook has been at the helm of Apple for a minute. They almost want to do these like-- it's almost like legacy building. You want to do something that's different that you made your mark. You didn't just build the next iPhone and steer the ship. You did this other thing. You were Magellan, or somebody.
You know, you discovered this new thing. So I wonder if some of that. And frankly, I think the origins of this even predate him. So there's a lot of reasons companies do things. Ford completely revitalized the 110-year-old train station in Detroit. It was one of the biggest eyesores for decades.
And I think it's awesome. I'm thrilled they did it, as a metro-Detroiter. It's a great piece of architecture. And it's a stunning piece of the city's landscape. If you've been watching the Lions, every home game, the network's cut in and out of the skyline. And you see what used to be the number one like ruin porn is now this amazing piece of architecture that was designed. And at the time, was considered to be better than New York's Grand Central Station, believe it or not.
And now this thing's revitalized. Long story short, when they did that, I was like, guys, you got to build small cars and trucks. Do you really have time to do this? They pulled it off. So I mean, all that's to say is if you pull it off, winning cures all, I guess. I don't know.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: For sure.
GREG MIGLIORE: If they pull it off, who knows.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And honestly, I think you may have something there with-- I'm sure that being the CEO of Apple not long after-- trying to follow up Steve Jobs, that's always going to be like, how can I make a name for myself, as opposed to just keeping Steve Jobs company going? And it happens at other automakers too.
Ferdinand Pieck at Volkswagen had all kinds of ego-stroking projects, like VW Phaethon and Bugatti Veyron and things like that. Granted, I would also reference back to the fact that those are still cars and they were car companies.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's true.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And of the two that I mentioned, one of them was a gigantic flop.
[CHUCKLE]
GREG MIGLIORE: That's true. Yeah. Ford made boats. GM I think has been in the refrigerator business.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: That's
GREG MIGLIORE: True. This stuff happens. But it's tougher to go the other way, I think. It's tougher to get into the car business when that's not your jam. When you can do something else and then expand into it, you can, it doesn't always work.
Remember when GM bought Ross Perot's company? What was that called, EDS in the 80s, you probably don't remember that. That long ago. But that was a little bit of probably board overreach.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. It's going to be interesting. And actually, one last comment, I think Apple could do it. I think what would make more sense for Apple is to do more work collaboratively with automakers on the systems and infotainment's in them.
I think that is an area where Apple does have a lot of expertise and could really-- and I think it's something that could bolster their business by having other players that are working closely with you and can kind of help sell that Apple ecosystem. And this car from this manufacturer also works great with all of your Apple things.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right. I think we've hit the news section pretty hard. We're running a little long here. So we should probably run through some car reviews, get to some spending your money. Thankfully, these are fairly short reviews. We've talked about the wrecks already. But hey, we're talking cars. It's fun, right?
I drove the Buick. This is the Envista, the Avenir trim. So it's the very nice trim. Have you driven this by chance? Have you driven the new Buick yet?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I haven't driven the Envista yet, but I have driven the Trax, which it's-- which is the same platform and stuff.
GREG MIGLIORE: So I mean, my big takeaway was, wow. For a small domestic vehicle, this is a compact crossover, wow. It's tough to do this. GM, in particular, has struggled with this for years. But this is great. I was really impressed. They nailed the styling. I think it's very attractive.
The Envista and Avenir are like riffs on previous concepts they've used for Buick. Great looking crossover, I thought. I drove it in basically a blizzard multiple times, and it handled pretty well. So there's that. I think it's a great value for about, mine came in at $30,490.
Only compromise again, and this is where we mentioned this earlier in the show, you got to want to buy a small vehicle. And some people do. And once you recalibrate your brain that way, OK, you want one that's very nice. Some of these things you have to pay for.
Heated seats cost money, whether you're in a Tahoe or an Avenir or an Envista. So Envista. Envista or Envista? I'm not sure if I'm saying it right. I don't hear the ads enough. All I hear is that's a Buick.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. I say Envista. I don't think either is necessarily-- I think either way is probably fine.
GREG MIGLIORE: You know what it is, is there was a Buick Avista concept about seven or eight years ago. And I think just, I've made that correlation in my head and I haven't been able to unhook it. So this is the 1.2 liter turbo, six speed automatic transmission. General Motors, they've succeeded in an area that Ford really hasn't as far as making quality, very small displacement turbo fours.
This is a decent engine. So they're pretty solid. Fuel economy was 28 in the city and 32 on the highway, which that was the one thing I would ding them for. It seems like for a car this size, a crossover this size, it should get a little bit better. I was expecting more like both of them in the 30s. Then maybe more like a mid 30s combined figure. But it was efficient in real world driving. So there's that.
Interior, I thought was pretty good. Again, I think we'll see more of this with the Equinox that you mentioned. And we also saw this with the Trax. It doesn't feel like a compromised domestic interior. It's a nice place to spend time. Grayish, kind of tan material, stitching. It was very attractive, I thought.
I mean, think 11 inch color touchscreen was pretty easy to use. I, generally, was impressed with it. I really was. I think there weren't even that many options on it that made me think, oh hey, this is loaded and made it feel nicer than it was. So I would expect I would have a similar vibe-- vibe, there's a Pontiac reference-- with the Chevy version, which you've driven.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. I was really very impressed with the Trax. Not super fast, but I mean, it's got good torque. So I mean, it feels plenty peppy around town. The six speed automatic is smooth. And because it's only six speeds, it's not hunting for gears all the time. And it's not a CVT. So it's not droning. And steering is a little numb, but the chassis feels really good. It feels pretty eager and very composed.
And I assume that it's the same for Envista. And I think the Envista looks really good, and the Trax. They both have very good proportions. They look lower longer and wider than a lot of things in their segment. And something else that I also appreciate is that they got the wheel track very nice on it. It fills out the fenders well. They get out to the very edge. And I think that also contributes to the visual width and stance of the vehicle.
I think that's something that a lot of automakers miss. But they got right on that. And the interiors are good. They're just very good vehicles. And they're cheap.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yes.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Because like this is-- because the Avenir that you had, that is the top rung most luxurious version of Envista. And you said, what, $30,000, or so?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yep, $30,490-ish. So it's a steal, man.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And so all the other trims are under $30,000.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Think this is where too, GM really needs to get this vehicle in front of a lot of-- get it in front of a lot of people. Because I think they would buy it. This is the kind of thing that I think if a non-GM domestic buyer saw it, and maybe you didn't have the Buick badge on it, they see it, they're like, that looks great. Then they're like, it costs how much? OK.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Are you saying that those people would be like, that's a Buick?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I hate to say it. Yeah. Yeah. But I also have found, it's interesting maybe because I've slightly gotten a little bit older as a geriatric millennial, as they call my group, I don't feel like I would not drive a Buick, or a Lincoln.
They're nice vehicles. And the styling is better than anything in their segment. I think I would drive one. I really would. It definitely takes some mental recalibration to think, oh, I own a Buick. But I don't know, in some ways, who even cares?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, that's the thing. It's like, if it's a neat vehicle, I mean, yeah, I can get past the badge. I thought the-- the Buick Regal, the Tour X Wagon was very cool. And the GS sporty version was pretty neat too. The Envista, it looks really good.
It's actually one of the rare crossover, quote, unquote, coupes that I think actually looks quite good. It actually it looks very fast back and sleek, as opposed to just an SUV where we cut the back off a little bit.
GREG MIGLIORE: Or even worse, a hatchback that's lifted an inch and a half off the ground. And you're like, well, that would have been a cool car, but for some reason, they squished the wheels and lifted it. Now it just looks awkward. So I agree. They really got the stance right.
That's actually a good segue to our long-term update. The Subaru WRX just joined the fleet. Road test editor, Zac Palmer, put a couple thousand miles on it. So we're through the break in period. One of the things that people have had some issues with is all the plastic from the back, around the wheel wells, it's very plasticky, let's put it that way. As far as the design element, I haven't quite landed on how exactly I feel about that part of the equation.
I like it. I really do. I think it's-- I think it looks how you would expect a WRX to drive. But the plastic is a little divisive, if you will. And I think it goes to that rally sort of heritage. And it's there for a reason, but it also-- no one's saying this has a nice clean look, like we've just lauded the small crossovers for having. So again, Zac put the initial miles on it.
I've had this for a week. I've enjoyed it a lot. We have not had a WRX in our long-term fleet in quite some time. We did have an STI in 2008, I want to say, ballpark somewhere in there. It was long enough ago that there was such a thing as an STI. And this does have some of those same ethos, only it doesn't have the same kind of power.
I think it's obviously a hardcore enthusiast play. Ours is bright orange. It's got the hood vent. You're going to see it. You're going to notice it. Black wheels, which is cool. We have the winter rubber on it, which is good. We try to see if the gold wheels from I think that STI would fit, but they didn't quite, I guess, is the report I got. Frankly, I don't think gold would work with the orange look. I might have tried it for a few months, I don't know.
But I've liked it. It's a lot of fun. When you think of manual transmissions that stick with you, like the GTI, Subarus and the WRX is one of them. This is something that it's got that heavy clutch. The throws are I hate to say medium length, that's a terrible way to describe them. But they're not long, they're not short.
They're just like medium length throws. It's a six speed. You do have that heavy clutch. You can plow through snow. I have just been mushing better than if I had a team of Huskies pulling me through the woods. It's really something. Downside is you do get that super tight suspension. So once the snow clears and you've got all the frost and snow damaged roads, it's just like, kachunk.
You know, you just hammer over everything. I hit a pothole, and literally I thought the front end of the car was going to sink. Because it was so low to the ground. I think it was a little bit of an optical illusion. But for a minute, it looked like when a ship is going down by the bow. Thankfully, everything was fine.
But you're low to the ground is what I'm trying to say. Steering is super dialed in. This has, in case you're curious, it's a 2.4 liter turbocharged. It's a flat four. 272 horsepower, so a little bit more. Six speed manual, of course, it's all wheel drive. And then the curb weight is just under 3,400 pounds, which is-- that's a light car, that's a light sedan.
And fuel economy, I've been observing about in the 20s. It's rated 19 the city, 26 on the highway, which is not terrible for what this is. I've enjoyed it. Have you have you driven-- you have not driven this one, but have you driven the Rex yet?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I've driven the regular WRX. And I also drove the TR version.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's intense.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Over in Italy. Yeah. Well, it's a little intense. It's like 5% stiffer suspension and way bigger brakes.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, wow. OK.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And it also comes with-- it's got the Recaro seats from the GT version. No sunroof. I mean, I've liked all of them. They're all lots and lots of fun. And even though they have made them much more easy to drive, I don't know that that's the perfect way to put it, but the bigger displacement, four cylinder, and upgraded turbos and stuff, they're less-- the boost comes on a lot smoother and more progressively.
And it's not as dead when it's out of boost. So it's just a lot easier to work with. Despite that, it still has that kind of hooligan vibe to-- driving it, it feels like you want to drive like an idiot. It's got all of this grip and this eager engine. And it just-- it kind of eggs you on a little bit, like yeah, be a little bit silly. And I like the way the WRX looks.
I absolutely approve of the orange paint color that we got. And I get why some people are turned off by the body cladding. I kind of like it. And the thing is, this is maybe a kind of a hot take, Subarus just don't look that great. They never have. And they're always going to look a little weird. And I think that's a lot of the charm of them.
Probably my favorite Impreza was those bug eye ones from, what was it, 2001 to 2003. Lots of people hate those.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Didn't John Snyder have one of those?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I think he did. Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I love them. Yeah, they look a little weird, but I kind of dig them.
GREG MIGLIORE: I had a neighbor who had one. I never saw it until he moved. I was like, oh, that was a nice car. I wish I knew that was in there.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: But also I feel like Subaru's aged surprisingly well too.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Because oftentimes, I look back, and the thing they're often referred to as the Hawkeye Impreza's, which were the last version of that generation that came out in 2001. So it had the very angry, scowling headlights. And it also had that really poorly thought out Subaru corporate grille that was supposed to evoke airplanes.
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, man.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: The one that was in its worst form, on the B9 Tribeca.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yes, I was just thinking of the Tribeca. That thing looked like a battleship. Don't know what was going on there.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, and they adapted a version of that for the Impreza. I thought it looked awful when it came out.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: But as time went on, I came around to it. And I like the Hawkeye Imprezas too. So I think this is probably another case of there's going to be a bunch of people that are really annoyed with the way this looks, and like 5 to 10 years down the road, they're like, oh yeah, that was a pretty cool Impreza, or WRX, sorry, because they're technically different vehicles now even though they're still related, but whatever.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting, Ralph Gill the VP of design for Stellantis, he has a quote that I've heard him say at least a couple times. Good design is timeless and bad design is timeless. And in this case, I don't know if you would say this is bad design. But I agree with you. I think it'll hold up. I think it's a Subaru WRX. And if you don't like it, you're either not going to get it or you're such a WRX fan person that you're going to get it still and then complain about it.
So going through the back pages the library, if you will, of Autoblog, we did have a WRX, let's see, what year was this? This was 14 and 15. It wasn't an STI. It was a WRX. It was blue. It looks somewhat similar to this thing. I remember I took it to Chicago.
Very much of a throughline here to what we have. It definitely was a memorable thing, let's put it that way. That one, I believe, had the upgraded seats with the heavy bolsters. So I remember it was a bit challenging to drive comfortably. I remember eating a Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich and trying to shift the gears somewhere in West Michigan on the way to Chicago.
And then the STI was thinking of was actually in 2011, 12 when I worked for Autoweek. So an entirely different car magazine. And that was an actual real deal STI. It was limited. It had a crazy wing. And frankly, when you're thinking of designs, I think that's a better just WRX design. You know, you do get the wing, which came with the STI model at the time.
But the Fender flares are a little more bulgy. You even can see them, especially on the back on this new car. But it just seemed like it was a little bit less cartoonish. I think the new one's a touch cartoonish. So I'm not sure who's up for it next, maybe you, but I think we're going to really enjoy this here.
I feel like whenever I've worked for an enthusiast magazine, as you can see, I've been through three of these long-termers at least, there's always a lot for people to pick at, like, dislike, complain. And I think a good way to maybe bring it together is it's sort of like obviously, it's an enthusiast car. But the dynamics, when I drive this car, I can picture those other two cars, other two long-term Subarus that I've experienced, been lucky to experience.
And it's like an old world feel. It's not old fashioned because this is a modern car. But it's still like-- it's enthusiastic and it's simple. It's bare bones. And it is old fashioned. It's like-- the comparison that I use is, I golf a lot. And I do bring that up on the podcast.
And I have a lot of mostly modern clubs. But I do keep an old golf club in there. It's a 4 wood, which I'll hit like for an in-between shot. And it's from the 60s or 70s. It was from my dad's set. I don't use his whole set just because you can't use a set of 60-year-old clubs. And sometimes you got to hit your titanium club, the modern club.
But once in a while, it's fun to pull that out for like a mid-range shot. It's harder than if I use the titanium club because there's less room for error. But I can still hit the ball pretty well with it. I think that's obviously what I think gets in your head when you put down your money to buy a car like this. It's more work to drive, but it's rewarding, it's fun. I'm sure you're going to be psyched.
It'll be interesting to hear-- why don't you tell everybody what the TR is real quick, just in case you've missed that. Because that's a good way to frame up the Subaru WRX lineup.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I said a little bit earlier. It's got 5% stiffer suspension. It's got big brakes. It gets rid of the sunroof. It gets Recaro seats. So it's just a little bit hardcore.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. In a way, it's like the STI without the additional power.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Kind of. It doesn't go as far though. Because the STI has got limited slip differentials and a center differential that you can adjust front and rear bias. The STIs went farther, but the TR is sort of an in-between.
GREG MIGLIORE: Kind of like a performance pack, perhaps, on the Mustang GT. there we go. All right. So why don't you tell me a little bit about the XC90 and then we'll spend some money.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. So I'd spend a little bit of time in the XC90 recharge. And that's probably the one that if you have the means, that's the one to get. It makes more than 400 horsepower with the combined supercharged and turbocharged four cylinder and a big rear motor. The rear motor makes 140 horsepower.
It's got about 30 miles of electric range. And honestly, basically, the entire time I had it, I drove it in full electric mode. Granted, I work from home. So I don't have to go that many places. But I mean, if you're charging from home every night, you're going to use electric for a lot of the time. And it's getting old. And it shows in some places. But in other places, it's still quite-- it still looks very good.
The interior is very elegant modern Swedish vibes all the way through. Nice materials, comfy seats. It drives smaller than it is. It's not an enormous three row, but it feels lighter and more nimble than some other things. I wouldn't call it sporty. It's still a fairly soft, relaxed vehicle. But it does feel a bit more maneuverable and enjoyable than some stuff in the segment.
It's kind of like that nice in-between. Where the age really shows though is the infotainment system. This has been around-- because it was-- this infotainment came out and was new basically around when I started at Autoblog, around 2016 or so. And back then, it was like one of the leading infotainment systems. Back then, there were a lot of really, really awful infotainment systems.
This one-- well, actually in some ways, it's backtracked a little bit. Because there's actually fewer physical buttons than back in 2016, or so. 2016, 2017. There's a lot of features that if they're not in the four shortcut blocks on the main screen, end up as very small icons on the side menus. And it's just kind of a mess of icons. And it's really hard-- if you're looking for something that is not in one of those little shortcuts, it's kind of a mess.
And you almost want to like pull over, stop and actually look through all of these little icons and words to try and find what you're looking for. It's not the greatest for actually-- you need to think about what you're going to use the most. And anytime that it's not one of those, it's a hassle. And also the competition is getting better and just more of it.
When this launched, you didn't have things like the shockingly fancy and luxurious Grand Cherokee. And the Mazda CX90 is coming out. The Lincoln Aviator hadn't come out yet. And a lot of these are available with plug-in hybrid powertrains as well. So it's definitely in need of replacement. And technically, it is getting a replacement. The EX90, the full electric SUV is kind of the successor. And I think the XC90 is probably just going to linger until Volvo feels like they don't really need the gas option anymore.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, we mentioned earlier the transitional phase we're all in. This is one of those vehicles that they're keeping just nice enough for the people who want this type of vehicle to keep it credible. And at some point, they will probably move on from it.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And for Volvo, it's probably not as big a deal because they have been very clear that they're pushing forward with EV. That is what they're doing. They're not going to stray from it. They're pushing hard for that.
And being a luxury automaker, they can afford to do that because their clientele probably has another vehicle that they could rely on if like EV doesn't work entirely for them all the time. They can cover the costs of their battery and motor technology and stuff. It's just a lot easier to do electric on higher end vehicles because you can justify the costs easier.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Speaking of costs, let's spend some money. This is a good one from up in Montreal, Bruno writes, hello, everyone. Love the show. I've been owning a 2017 Audi SQ5 for a year and a half.
Although it's a great vehicle, I'm looking to downsize since I'm not utilizing the cargo space that I thought I would need and I miss the nimbleness of a small car. Looking for a coop or sedan, drives approximately 20,000 miles a year with some spirited backroad driving and occasional quarter mile racing. Live in Montreal, a great city. One of my favorites. So all wheel drive is not a requirement.
Budget is 40,000 Canadian for a CPO. And that's about a current exchange rates, that's about $30 grand in the US. So I have some thoughts. I think one thing I would just do right off the top is just consider-- stay with Audi. Look for a used A4 or A5. You already know you're in the family, you like it. They're sold in Canada. I had to cross reference some things here to make sure what's sold here and what's sold over there.
You can find some of those. And also a BMW 3 Series. I think that could be pretty nice. I think because he's willing to go used, that means you could go from like 17 to like maybe 21 and still get something that feels fairly new and also you're willing to put down a bit of money. Like $30,000 for a used car is nothing. So you could get a lot of car. So if I'm doing my exchange rates math correctly, those look like things you can find out there. What do you think there, Joel?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so what I'm thinking is, I'm also thinking Audi. And in addition to the A4, A5 line, I would say, look at an S3 or possibly even an Audi TTS. Because, basically, those are--
GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, that's fun. Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Because those are basically a VW Golf R, But in either a sedan or a coupe body shape. And it's hard to go wrong with one of those. And I was kind of poking around on a classified site for Canada. Depending on condition miles and things like that, you might be able to squeak into an RS3, which is awesome. It might be a little more hardcore than what you're really looking for.
The suspension on those is pretty stiff. But that five cylinder, that 400 horse five cylinder is kind of amazing. But probably a safer bet, S3 or TTS, like the S version of the TT, specifically. Again, they're Golf R's, but they're fancier.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's got the five cylinder engine, which is really, really--
JOEL STOCKSDALE: No, those are--
GREG MIGLIORE: That's the RS.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Right. RS has the five cylinder. S is the Golf R4 cylinder. So just shy of 300 horsepower and all wheel drive.
GREG MIGLIORE: Overselling it here. OK. Continue. Sorry.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Right. And that's why I was like, you might be able to get the RS3 with the five cylinder. But the S is probably-- it's easier to find. It's also not going to be as stiff and hardcore as the RS3. So it'd probably be a lot easier to live with. And it's like, I mean, that Golf R-- I would also even suggest a Golf R.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's not a bad call.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Just straight up. But if you're looking for like the sedan or coupe, that's your Golf R as a sedan or coupe.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Checking my math here. You can, in fact, get a very nice BMW 3 Series, 2021, for just under 43 Canadian. It has xDrive and it's available at the BMW Montreal Center. So again, sometimes you get a little tricky. Certain things are sold here that aren't sold there. But yeah, I mean, honestly, I think I would land on something like a 3 series. That would be different, kind of fun too. Have you ever been to Montreal?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: No, I never have. I'd like to go sometime.
GREG MIGLIORE: I have gone in the winter a couple times and it's fun. A great place to hang out. Fun town. Great food. Good place to have some drinks. I went to the, it was then called the Molson Center, I think, which is where the Canadians play hockey.
I'm a big hockey fan. So it was fun to see a game there. Yeah, it's just a great town to hang out in. I think especially in winter, because we're-- I mean, hell, we live in Michigan. Going somewhere cold for winter is not a problem.
But I think also seeing the F1 race there in the summer would be kind of cool. Check out the circuit and yeah, I think that would be a lot of fun. All right. That's all the time we have this week. Please give us five stars if you are so inclined on the ratings.
That helps us get the word out so people you know, hey, like our show and want to subscribe. If you have to Spend My Money, that's podcast@autoblog.com. Be safe out there and we'll see you next week.
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