Filed under: Car Buying, Volkswagen
Volkswagen diesel sales rising with gas prices
Volkswagen of America is counting its lucky stars that it has a portfolio of diesel-powered models on the showroom floor as increasingly fuel-economy-conscious consumers look for relief from rising gas prices. In the first four months of the year, Volkswagen's TDI diesels accounted for more than 22 percent of total sales. In April, diesel sales accounted for more than 40-percent of New Beetles sold and 38-percent of Jettas.VW sales are probably getting a helping hand from the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Energy - the agencies' 2006 Fuel Economy Guide rates the diesel version of the New Beetle and Golf as the highest fuel economy models in their respective classes.
VW is also set to see a windfall of TDI sales later in the year when the U.S. switches to Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel fuel as a national standard. We expect VW and DaimlerChrysler to be on the ready with a marketing blitz to inform the public of how clean diesel fuel has become.
[Source: Volkswagen of America]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Ben 4:43PM (5/10/2006)
hmmm...ULSD will have little effect on helping VW pass new emissions standards. Apparently autoblog doesn't that there will be NO MY 2007 TDI cars in the US. It's also looking like there will be none for MY 2008 either. Diesel is great, IF it can pass new EPA standards.
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Gale 4:57PM (5/10/2006)
Until diesel prices return to at or below that of regular the math doesn't work. The vehicle costs a little more, the fuel is hard to find and costs a little more... so the slight fuel economy nebefit is washed away very quickly.
High priced diesel fuel makes no sense... the stuff looks and smells like it just came out of the ground.
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bhtooefr 5:13PM (5/10/2006)
Umm... what?
"It's also looking like there will be none for MY 2008 either."
That one's new to me - and I'm a very active member on TDIClub. (The 2007 one I knew about, though.)
"Until diesel prices return to at or below that of regular the math doesn't work. The vehicle costs a little more, the fuel is hard to find and costs a little more... so the slight fuel economy nebefit is washed away very quickly."
Wait until you see the fact that not staying on top of maintenance means bad things. These cars are not ultimate economy cars, they were never meant to be. There's other advantages to driving a diesel - the best one begins with a "T", ends with an "E", and has an "ORQU" in the middle.
Also, while diesel fuel DOES cost more than gas in some areas, the fuel economy advantage outweighs that. At a filling station that I often fuel at, diesel fuel is $2.879 per gallon. Regular unleaded gasoline is $2.619. Premium is $2.789. The Jetta TDI 5M is rated for (and with efficient driving, often beats) 41 MPG highway. The Jetta 2.5 5M is rated for (and usually matches) 30 MPG highway. The Jetta 2.0T 5M is rated for (and usually matches) 32 MPG highway.
Per highway mile, on fuel costs, using EPA estimates (which are low on the TDI) the TDI costs 6.9 cents per mile on fuel. The 2.5 costs 8.7 cents per mile to fuel. The 2.0T also costs 8.7 cents per mile to fuel.
By the way, diesel fuel is available at 40% of fueling stations around the country. If you live near an interstate, you live near a station offering diesel.
Yes, the fuel does have a distinct smell to it. Then again, so does gasoline.
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Bob_Ericson 5:23PM (5/10/2006)
bhtooefr, why no TDi models in 07?!
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pavster 5:31PM (5/10/2006)
According to reports, the new low-sulfur fuel has no smell at all.
Here is the difference between driving a gas turbo-4 and diesel turbo-4 from a stop.
Gas: floor it, wait, wait, wait, here is the power, yes, damn, have to shift; again wait, wait, wait, here it is.. shift. this is from my recent MY '06 WRX test-drive experience.
Diesel: floor it, wow, so much power. shift; wow, so much power! this is from my recent european alfa 147 diesel experience.
Diesel cars feel like they have a V8 with the economy of a 3-cylinder. I for one can't wait.
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bgdc 5:43PM (5/10/2006)
I get 22-23 mpg from my current 03 3.0 inline 6.
The european version of the 3.0 diesel gets 30 mpg combined.
Looking at the math:
15000 miles / 23 mpg * 3.50 a gallon = $2282
15000 miles /30 mpg * 3.50 a gallon of diesel = 1750
Nice savings in my eyes.
Then again a hybrid averaging 35 mpg and using regular fuel would be:
15000 miles / 40 mpg * 3.30 a gallon = 1237 (40 mpg is really low as a civic can get 49/51).
Somebody needs to make a hybrid diesel! diesel idle or run at low rpms far more efficiently than gas engines. The net result would be outstanding mileage.
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John 5:53PM (5/10/2006)
#5 pavster, replace all your uses of the word "power" with "torque" please. That is what you are talking about, a _force_ that you feel.
"Power" is work done per second,
P = Force x distance / time.
You can't feel "power". But you can see "power" by how much scenery goes by you in a set period of time.
Driving at a steady 70 mph on the highway takes about 50 horsepowers. Power determines your maximum speed.
Diesels give you more torque, but they rev slow, and can't accelerate as fast as a gasoline engine.
Here's some entertainment to reinforce that thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEzWkv8KBL8&search=top%20gear%20jaguar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4lrpZtZzZg&search=top%20gear%20jaguar
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John 5:55PM (5/10/2006)
#5 pavster, replace all your uses of the word "power" with "torque" please. That is what you are talking about, a _force_ that you feel.
"Power" is work done per second,
P = Force x distance / time.
You can't feel "power". But you can see "power" by how much scenery goes by you in a set period of time.
Driving at a steady 70 mph on the highway takes about 50 horsepowers. Power determines your maximum speed.
Diesels give you more torque, but they rev slow, and can't accelerate as fast as a gasoline engine.
Here's some entertainment to reinforce that thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEzWkv8KBL8&search=top%20gear%20jaguar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4lrpZtZzZg&search=top%20gear%20jaguar
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John 5:56PM (5/10/2006)
5. pavster, replace all your uses of the word "power" with "torque" please. That is what you are talking about, a _force_ that you feel.
"Power" is work done per second,
P = Force x distance / time.
You can't feel "power". But you can see "power" by how much scenery goes by you in a set period of time.
Driving at a steady 70 mph on the highway takes about 50 horsepowers. Power determines your maximum speed.
Diesels give you more torque, but they rev slow, and can't accelerate as fast as a gasoline engine.
Here's some entertainment to reinforce that thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEzWkv8KBL8&search=top%20gear%20jaguar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4lrpZtZzZg&search=top%20gear%20jaguar
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Pennypacker 6:19PM (5/10/2006)
Bought a new TDI Jetta in 2000 and the economic advantage quickly disappeared after: all 4 windows eventually fell into door after closure, power door locks didn't work right ever after 13 visits to dealership, fuel pump failure at 68,000 miles, ball joint replacement, $90+ oil changes because of "unique oil filter element", dash lights burining out after 20,000 miles, and a turbo that would decide not to boost when it felt like it. Buy a Japanese car that gets good gas mileage AND works the way it was supposed to (it's what I did). Just my .02
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n2carz 6:33PM (5/10/2006)
I just bought a 2006 Jetta TDI with a 5-speed manual instead of a Prius. My 50 mile commute each way is so much fun. The power at highway speed is incredible. I drive fast - 75-85 mph and don't even have to think about "trying" to get good fuel economy, instead I have fun actually DRIVING the car. My tanks average out to be 43 - 44 mpg (pen and paper method)...and yes I can use the AC all the time too. My two coworkers each have a Prius - you constantly have to monitor your speed and gently accelerate etc. to only get about the same mpg, best part is my Jetta TDI was $1400 less than the Prius.
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DKB_SATX 6:47PM (5/10/2006)
Pavster: Were you driving an '06 WRX or an '05? the 2.0 had huge lag and needed to be up on the boil before it really made power, but the 2.5 in my partner's '06 is very similar to my Legacy GT, decent torque even from low RPM that just keeps building until the computer cuts off the fun at redline. Now, it's not the right-off-idle torque you can get from a diesel, but in reality is spools up pretty quickly and there aren't many diesels that can beat the '06 WRX to 60 mph or a quarter mile.
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tcc3 7:01PM (5/10/2006)
Wheres my TDI hybrid? Cmon VW, dont let me down now...
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Cervus 7:08PM (5/10/2006)
Still can't buy one in California.
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Bogey 7:25PM (5/10/2006)
$2.879 for diesel? I wish. California, Bay Area... averaging over $3.30+ at the stations where I fill up. Saw $3.55 this morning at one station.
Having said that I love my truck. I have a F250 with the 6 liter V-8 diesel engine and I regularly get 17-19mpg. Compare that to the 12-15 that the smaller 1/2 pickups with their V-8 gas engines are getting.
Plus, my engine/drivetrain warranty is for 100,000 miles too. AFAIKR the warranty on a gas engine is less (at least from Ford).
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Jim 7:30PM (5/10/2006)
Totally incorrect that there will be no 2007MY diesels. As an example, the Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD will go into production in the first quarter of 2007. It will be powered by the Mercedes engineered blutec diesel motor.
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bhtooefr 7:34PM (5/10/2006)
#4 Bob_Ericson: Well... simple. The TDIs cannot meet the misguided EPA emissions standards as is. The emissions controls that they need to meet them can be damaged by the "low" sulfur fuel we have, and require ultra-low sulfur fuel. The theory is that VW wants ULSD to be widespread before selling TDIs that require it, so that people don't kill their emissions controls early.
#7 John: Keep in mind, Jeremy Clarkson is well known to be anti-diesel. I'm not familiar with the PSA HDi/Ford Duratorq diesel used in the X-Type, but the VW TDIs are known for having lots of power at 2000 RPMs all the way to 4500, thanks to their VNT turbochargers. With proper gearing, it can be nearly as quick as a gasser. And, while people buy horsepower, they drive torque. Sure, 0-60 isn't great on a diesel. Look at 30-50, 50-70, measures like that. The measures where you actually NEED bursts of acceleration in daily driving. Also, look at the fact that a TDI can zoom up steep hills at 75 in 5th all day, whereas many gassers have to slow down and/or drop down a gear.
#8 Pennypacker: Note what I said in my comment. Anyway, these cars aren't for everybody. If you don't feel like doing some of your own maintenance, forget about it, because the stealership *WILL* screw you over.
By the way...
"all 4 windows eventually fell into door after closure"
Window clips were recalled.
"power door locks didn't work right ever after 13 visits to dealership"
13 visits? Wow. Did you try complaining to Volkswagen of America?
"fuel pump failure at 68,000 miles"
What was your fuel quality? (think "did I fill up where a bunch of semi trucks fill up? If so, then it was definitely good.") If it was bad, I'd hardly blame it on Volkswagen.
"$90+ oil changes because of "unique oil filter element""
Bull. Shit. Try more like because of "the stealership trying to rip you off." TDIParts has the element for $6. I'm sure that World Impex... or heck, the parts department at your stealer... would've had them for the same ballpark price.
"and a turbo that would decide not to boost when it felt like it"
What was your driving style, by the way? If you babied the car, it soots things up thanks to the emissions controls that VW had to put on. Drive it hard, put it away wet. As they say on TDIClub, "drive it like you stole it." BTW, you might look on TDIClub for "boost deviation" and "limp mode". ;)
#11 Cervus: Yeah, it sucks... there's four other states, too - and more states are joining up. However, studies are showing that the rationale behind the emissions requirements used for diesels in CARB states is misguided, and it might be getting to CARB. Hold tight.
#12 Bogey: You bring up a very good point. Longevity. Take care of the thing, and it'll last you a lot longer than any gasser. Or, sell it, and it'll sell for a lot more than an equivalent gasser. Look at 96 and 97 Passat TDI wagons. I've seen $10,000. Crazy. Try selling a gasser for a quarter of that. Ain't gonna happen.
#13 Jim: This relates to VW, I know that DCX will have 2007 diesels. ;)
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Howard Kerr 7:51PM (5/10/2006)
My $0.02:
people buying VW diesels want a fuel efficient car RIGHT NOW and are turned-off by the waiting lists at Toyota and Honda dealers. Aside from the lack of safety equipment, I would buy an Insight if any dealers near me had any in stock (they stopped carrying any Insights when the 2nd gen. Prius hit the showroom).
The VW dealer in my area sells a few Jettas to young women, who REALLY want to be different, but these ladies aren't buying the diesel. Having driven a non-turbo (mid '70s) diesel Rabbit I can't even begin to imagine how much better the newer ones are. But I've read enough "stories" about VW reliability (or lack thereof) to steer clear of them. That may also explain why the VW dealer in my area is having a very hard time trying to move any diesels, be it Jetta, Beetle or Golf.
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bhtooefr 8:22PM (5/10/2006)
VWs require work, it's that simple. You gotta be able to put some time into them, or they'll be money pits.
Anyway...
"Having driven a non-turbo (mid '70s) diesel Rabbit I can't even begin to imagine how much better the newer ones are."
Egads... that's the 1.5NA... worst... VW... diesel... engine... ever. (Not that it was BAD, just it was horsepowerless (despite high RPMs), torqueless, and blew headgaskets like crazy.)
My 85 Jetta has the slightly bigger brother to that engine, the 1.6NA. It's slow, but economical, and as long as you don't overheat it, it'll run a good long time.
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Cervus 8:46PM (5/10/2006)
bhtooefr: However, studies are showing that the rationale behind the emissions requirements used for diesels in CARB states is misguided, and it might be getting to CARB.
Which studies where? This would have come in handy when I was arguing about CARB and TDIs over at Green Car Congress. Do you have cites?
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