In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by News Editor Joel Stocksdale. They've been driving the 2022 GMC Sierra 1500 AT4 (no, not the updated version) and Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro, as well as Autoblog's long-term Hyundai Palisade. In the news, they say farewell to BMW's V12, discuss Bollinger Motors' shift to commercial vehicles and a teaser of the 2023 Toyota Sequoia.
Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.
TranscriptGREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to The Autoblog Podcast. I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me today is news editor Joel Stockdale. We've got a great show for you today. We're going to talk about the Toyota 4Runner. Joel drove one that was quite colorful from what I've seen on socials. I drove the 2022 GMC Sierra AT4 with the ecodiesel. So it is actually a lot of fun. Kind of like a little bit of a monster truck. That one is like a kind of Christmasy holiday red. So staying with the color stuff. And let's see, what else do we have here? The Hyundai Palisade long term update. That is more of a drab shade of kind of blue.
Break down some news for you this week. BMW's final V12 rolls out this year. Bollinger shifts to commercial strategies. And we're going to talk about the upcoming Toyota Sequoia. So with that, let's bring in Joel. Mr. News Editor, how are you?
JOEL STOCKDALE: Doing all right.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool man. So yeah, let's just jump right in here. 4Runner, break it down for me. What did you do? Which trim was this?
JOEL STOCKDALE: So it's the new Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro. And this particular one was kitted out with a bunch of TRD dealer accessories. One of the first ones that stood out to me when it arrived-- other than the electric metallic lime green paint job, which I'm a huge fan of. It looks awesome. And it arrived on a very snowy day. And so it really popped against the white snow on the ground. But one of the first things that I noticed was that it had a bug and rock shield on the hood. And I think it's probably been about 20 years since I've really seen cars running around with bug shields on the front. That's just one of those accessories that I don't see anymore.
I was kind of surprised. It also had the big tubular cargo rack on top that makes it look expedition ready. In the back it's got the slide out tray to help you load up items in the back. And the worst part of all the TRD accessories on it was the TRD exhaust. And this is the second time that I've had a Toyota 4Runner with the add-on exhaust. And it's awful. It's so bad. It was bad the last time I had it. It was bad this time that I had it. It is something that you should try and avoid at all cost.
Because the thing about it, it sounds like someone took a sawzall and took the muffler off the back of it. It's this low, droning, nasty V6 noise. It's really unpleasant. And it's quite loud. And even like cruising on the highway, it gets droning, It's not pleasant.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting because I would agree with you. It's been a while since I have driven the 4Runner with the TRD exhaust. But I have driven one. I can kind vividly remember like-- this is a few years back. But it kind of looked-- maybe it does look old school. And then it sounds just, like, rough. You know, I remember driving it and a couple of passengers were like, this sort of feels like we're driving a 1990s SUV in every way. How it looks, just the general vibe, how it sounds. And that was not a compliment. The TRD exhaust sound.
Yeah, it's pretty wild. I'll say this. I'm pretty jealous. A TRD 4Runner, there's a lot of fun things going on there. That's one of those crossover SUVs that when you drive it it's like, it's fun to drive. You know, it's almost like playing with cars. You know, as a kid you you're like-- it's just it's a fun thing to do. How are you feeling about the 4runner's driving dynamics?
I drove one last summer and it was exactly what it's always been for me. I don't know if anything's changed for you.
JOEL STOCKDALE: Not really. To be honest I think I have changed more than it has. Because I used to not be a big fan of the way it drove. But I've kind of softened up a little bit on sort of the old school SUV vibe. Having purchased a 90s Chevy Suburban may be contributing to that.
Because it is-- it's just kind of a squishy laid back driving experience. You just kind of lean on the torque that the engine has there and not worry about going anywhere fast. And you can just pound over anything. You've got big, thick tires and lots of suspension travel. So you have no fears of any potholes or anything, which is really nice around here in the winter.
I will say that-- because it's got a lot of decent goodness still baked into it. One of the big things is that it is actually a really quiet SUV. Except for the exhaust. And that's something that's easy to avoid. Just don't get the exhaust. And, you know, it handles decently.
I would not be surprised the Bronco handles a little better, being a lot newer. But what the 4Runner really could use-- it really could use a new transmission. It still uses a five speed automatic. And it's very smooth, but it's terrible for fuel economy. And it's not doing it any favors in acceleration either.
And I mean, like, this thing does not get good fuel economy. I think I have struggled to break 20 mpg with the 4Runners that I've had.
GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, that doesn't surprise me at all. In some ways I'm almost surprised that 20 MPG is what you were getting. I mean, I've gotten probably worse than that in real world driving when I've been with the 4Runner or the old Land Cruiser.
JOEL STOCKDALE: So that that's a big thing. And I think one of the other tricky things is that the TRD Pro starts at over $50,000. Which, I mean, you can spec out like a Wrangler Rubicon or a Bronco Sasquatch Badlands up pretty high too. But it's one of these things where you can pick up a Lexus GX a new one for about like $3,000 more than a TRD Pro. Granted, you're not getting things like the Fox shocks and things. But you are getting a much more pleasant and refined V8 engine instead of the V6.
You're not really sacrificing much in fuel economy, even with the extra cylinders. Plus, the GX does technically have a third row of seats available. They're not really fit for adult human consumption. But it is there if you really need it. It just gives you a little bit of flexibility there. And, I mean, you get a nicer interior.
So I kind of feel like if I was spending TRD Pro money, I would be considering stretching just a little bit further to get to a Lexus GX. But obviously some of the reasons people will get a 4Runner is they like the way it looks. And it did look really cool with the TRD Pro front bumper and stuff and the exclusive lime green paint. It does look neat. You get the Toyota crawl control system. You also get on the TRD Pro-- it's got a old school like mechanical lever for engaging four wheel drive that's directly connected to the transfer case.
When it's sitting there idling, if you put your hand on that lever you can feel it kind of vibrating. Because it's actually connected to the transfer case. You don't have to worry about any switches going bad or vacuum lines going bad. It's just a big old ka-chunk ka-chunk lever to get it into four wheel drive.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's actually funny. I'm a major coffee drinker and the last time I drove the 4Runner I kept reaching down. Then I would just kind of reach over and brush that lever and you're like, oh, that's right. This is a very mechanical experience. It's definitely old school. And I like it. And, I mean, I like the 4Runner. It's definitely on the top 10, I would say, of vehicles I would consider owning at some point. It doesn't quite get into that top five list, just for a variety of reasons. But, you know, I'm somebody who can live with the compromises. The driving dynamics, the five speed transmission, which is like probably Fred Flintstone's car had a better gearbox than that.
And there's some things I think Toyota could do as they evolve the 4Runner if they're going to evolve the 4Runner to make it a little more modern. You know, you got the Bronco out there. The Bronco drives really well in daily driving. Better than the Wrangler. The Jeep Wrangler does in daily driving. And the Bronco is managed to achieve basically like-- forgive the cliche-- like a no compromises situation. Like there's no trade off. You can drive up the side of a mountain in a Bronco. But it's easier to rip around a corner at 45 miles an hour on a Tuesday afternoon than it is in a Jeep or the Toyota.
So my guess is the 4Runner, like the now gone Land Cruiser, it's not going to get there. This is where it's going to be until it becomes something else.
JOEL STOCKDALE: It does strike me as weird though. Because, I mean, even the Tacoma-- I believe that at least gets a six speed automatic. So I'm surprised that they haven't even just like said, hey, we'll just grab the Tacoma transmission and drop it into the 4Runner.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. It's definitely-- Like I said, I think there's some tweaks they could make that might get this up to speed a little bit more. So we'll see. Did you go off roading or do anything fun with it?
JOEL STOCKDALE: No, I'm just kind of drove about town. And you were talking about that the 4Runner is high on your list. I'll admit I think I would probably go with a Wrangler or a Bronco instead. Because I'm not hugely bothered by the kind of extra noise from not having just a permanently enclosed cabin. And I mean the Wrangler gets better fuel economy, even just in the regular V6 trim.
I would probably go with the 4 by plug-in hybrid if it was my own money. And if I wasn't so worried about fuel economy, I'd go with the Bronco because the Bronco's quite a bit peppier with its turbo engines.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well notice I said top 10. If I were making like a hypothetical list of things, it'd be like a fringe top 10. I might buy it just for my kind of emotional connection to it and how much I think I would enjoy driving it. I mean, both domestics you just named are better in every area almost. So, you know, one of those would probably be slot above it. That'd be a fun podcast segment.
Your top 10 list of things you would buy in no particular order or for no budget. I don't know. Cool. Well, I'm a little jealous. I wish that had come my way. But what has come my way is a GMC Sierra AT4 in limited trim with the diesel. It's kind of an interesting truck I think.
It's definitely not your standard V8 or V6 Sierra, that's for sure. The AT4 trim is kind of like a middle ground. You get like off road stuff. It's jacked up pretty much. It's got those big knobby tires, it's 18 inch wheels. You get lots of off road gear, that sort of thing. It's not the cheapest Sierra but it's not up there with more like the Denali or even the AT4X, which obviously had cost and capability and things like this.
It's a nice middle ground. And, like I said, it's a very nice shade of holiday Christmasy red that kind of really sets the vibe. I mean, it's a nice truck. Like it really is. Driving around town, people have been looking at it. Which, you know, in this area-- metro Detroit-- a domestic pickup truck does not stand out at all. So you look at it, it's just really well done on all accounts.
For the turbo diesel, if you will, you're looking at about 30 miles per gallon on the highway. I haven't done much highway driving. But it's there for me if I need it. At some point this week I imagine I probably will. 460 pound feet of torque and 277 horsepower. I like that. When General Motors rolled out the ecodiesel, I've enjoyed it in a variety of vehicles. In the Suburban, I had it in a Yukon at one point. And now in the Sierra.
I think it's a good move for them. It's plenty of grunt. You can tow up to 9,000 pounds. It has everything you need. And it's a little bit of a different drive. You know, driving dynamic. A lot of low end torque, obviously. But it's not like an old school diesel at all. Where you're like, oh, I'm driving this like diesel thing in my truck. It's definitely like a modern torque-y feel, like I said. And I would say it's like sort of the highest evolution of diesel at this point that I've tested in a modern vehicle.
So props to GM for kind of investing and staying with the technology, especially for their full-size trucks and SUVs. So, I mean, that's been fun to drive. Played around with the multi pro tailgate. Multiflex is Chevy. I actually did a video for TikTok and had to do multiple takes because I kept mixing it up which one was which. It's the same experiment or same capability, which is nice if you want it as an option.
It's not that much money. I think it's only like-- it was like $595, $600. I'm not sure if they've raised it or not. But if you want it, cool. If you don't, all good. You know, just even having it to put stuff on, like for tailgating or to step into the bed is kind of nice. So I mean, yeah. I've been enjoying my week in a full size Sierra, you know? And you had the AT4 trim on there, which I haven't gone off road with it yet. And the ecodiesel too. It's just kind of like an interesting truck. Let me put it that way. A lot of things going on. Yeah.
JOEL STOCKDALE: Yeah, I haven't really had the opportunity to drive the diesel all that much. I've driven RAM ecodiesels. Actually that's about it. I haven't driven the Ford diesel either. But it really does amaze me how good the fuel economy is on the GM diesel trucks. I think it's really cool that they offer it on the SUVs too, which I think is a really interesting selling point for them. Because, at least in that segment, there's not really anything comparable. Because Stellantis doesn't offer the ecodiesel on the Wagoneers. And there's no diesel or hybrid options on Expedition. So I think it's a neat selling point for them.
GREG MIGLIORE: I feel like I should probably correct something I've said earlier. I've been seeing ecodiesel. Eco diesel is like the trademark for RAM. GMC-- General Motors and Chevy-- they use DuroMax. That's their brand name, obviously. Somehow ecodiesel slipped into by subconsciousness. Which is probably Stellantis and RAM somewhere like, well, we did our job. We've got this guy subliminally thinking truck diesels and he's thinking of us. But no, obviously these are DuroMax diesels. So there's that. But regardless, I think it's a nice option.
It's one of the things that if you want one of these, now's probably the time to get one. We're going to start to see I think probably smaller displacement engines, more electrification. I feel like diesel-- diesel kind of comes and goes. And different automakers really invest in it. Or they completely don't. And right now General Motors has decided to get back into it. And I think that's been a good thing for them. I don't know what the take rate is for these vehicles. It's not huge. I did sit down with one of their chief engineers last fall when I had the Suburban. And, you know, she mentioned that, hey, there's a devoted, a core audience that's going to want this.
And everybody else is going to go with the gas trucks, which makes sense. So yeah. I mean, it's a Sierra. I'll say this. Even the looks of the Sierra are kind of growing on me a little bit. Yeah, I don't know. For a while I kind of thought-- like when the Silverado launched a few years back now, there was some consternation. Because it's a pretty big departure from how the Silverado had looked for about 10 years. It was a little more curvy, the lights were a little bit smaller.
So I think for a lot of people the Sierra was like more of your truck look, you know? Frankly, for me, the Silverado-- I've kind of come back to it. I kind of like the look. It's almost more of like a classic kind of 90s Chevy truck look. Where it's not as blocky. Its headlights are a little more downplayed. All of that is to say, for a while I liked the Silverado more. Then I'm thinking, maybe I like the Sierra. But this Sierra, like I said in AT4 limited trim, looks good.
Part of it is just everything works well. It's a strong looking truck, straight out of central casting. And sometimes I do think the Sierra gets lost and the Canyon for that matter-- they get lost in the Chevy shadow. Just because there's such overwhelming volume plays. But yeah. It's been a good week in this thing. We'll see what else, what other adventures I get up to with it. Yeah. Let's swing things over to our final car of this segment, which is the Hyundai Palisade. Long term update. What have you been doing with the Hyundai Palisade?
JOEL STOCKDALE: Not a huge amount. Mostly just kind of odd trips to the grocery store and things. It's still really nice. I mean, there's not-- it doesn't really have many weak points, really. It's very quiet. It's very comfortable. It handles decently well. The V6 makes good power and sounds pretty good. Transmission is smooth and shifts promptly. It's got a nice interior.
It actually was kind of funny, though. Something that I forgot to mention about the 4Runner. The 4Runner's got really good seats. Really like thick cushioning, good shaping. And actually when I got into the Palisade afterward I was like, oh, this feels slightly flat and thin compared to the 4Runner seats. I've never really thought that otherwise. So I mean, the Palisade has pretty decent seats. But it was funny coming out of the 4Runner. It was like, oh, I think I actually prefer the seats in the 4Runner.
I've really appreciated having a remote start on our long term Palisade the last couple of weeks because it's gotten pretty cold around here. And something-- a little thing-- that I noticed that I really appreciate about it is that the key fob has a little indicator light on it. So when you press lock and stuff it'll light up to indicate that it's received the message at the car. And it does that also with remote start. So like you lock it and then you hold the remote start button and when the little light flashes, that indicates that the car has started and you can confirm that looking outside. Because there have been a number of times that I've had cars with remote start that there's nothing at all on the key to indicate whether you've actually successfully remote started the car.
So oftentimes I'll find myself staring out the window with the key fob waiting to see the lights flash on it, which can be kind of annoying. Because in some ways, it doesn't feel-- it feels less convenient. It feels closer to like if I just went outside to go and start it. I mean, this is a super first world problem kind of thing.
But it's really convenient that the Hyundai has it. I can be anywhere in the house and I can just check the key fob to make sure it's actually started instead of having to go find a window and look at the car to make sure that it started.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's funny. I've been doing that with the not the ego diesel, the Duramax diesel-- I almost said it again there-- this week. But with the GMC, you know when that thing starts up. But I hear you. And that's a nice little thing. I mean, like you said it's a first world problem. But one thing I was actually doing for a while is I would-- back when we were going to the office every day-- I would maybe leave my keys upstairs. So it's like right before you jump in the shower, hit the car, get it started. Then when you come downstairs your car is warmed up and you don't have to worry about getting into a car when you're still maybe a little not fully dried off or something. So that's kind of a neat feature. So the Palisade has been here a while. I mean, how are you feeling? You know, it's going to be with us in the early spring. But we're on the back 9 with the Palisade. So I don't know. How are you feeling about it? It's not a blog long termer.
JOEL STOCKDALE: I mean, it's been really good. Like I said, it doesn't really have any weak points. And that's kind of why I felt like that and the Telluride have sort of been like the number one choices for like a big 3 row crossover. Because they look good. They've got nice interiors. They drive well. They're priced well. Like they do they do everything well. And there's really not much downside. I will say, it's not as fuel efficient as I would like it to be.
I was looking at our fuel economy numbers and it does look like it is mostly holding up to EPA numbers. But around town it's pretty thirsty. A lot of the time I've been getting like 16 or 17 around town. Which, I don't know, I know it is a big car with a decent size V6. But I just kind of feel like we should be a little bit further ahead than that. I would really like to see Hyundai Kia roll out some kind of hybrid version of these SUVs. Especially because the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, which is not a paragon of refinement-- I've driven it and the engine can be kind of thrashy-- but it does get impressively good fuel economy for being as big as it is. And also when you have things like the Sienna, which is a hybrid, and the Pacifica Hybrid. Which are like if you're hauling a family or hauling lots of stuff, I mean, you should be considering a minivan in addition to that crossover SUV.
I mean, those get far better fuel economy. And the Pacifica is actually a pretty refined powertrain since the V6 hybrid.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I would agree with that.
JOEL STOCKDALE: So yeah. I'd like it to be a little bit more efficient. But that's kind of really the only one big complaint. A couple other like minor notes that are like super specific and not really a reason not to get it but I helped a friend move out of a dorm room a couple of months ago. And took the Palisade to help move the mini fridge out of his dorm room, which is a fairly tall one. And we couldn't fit it upright in the back of it. We had to lay it down on its side. Which I was like, boy, this is a big crossover SUV, surely it'll fit standing up.
Nope. And also, I don't know, maybe this should be an op ed that I write at some point. But I kind of miss having second row bench seats. For the very specific reason that the dogs that I have owned have been on the larger side and they don't fit that great on a captain's chair for long distances. They have a hard time laying down.
And to like create sort of a platform across the two captain's chairs is not a very easy or convenient thing. So I'm actually kind of a fan of bench seats in the second row. But I do understand that for human passengers, captain seats are usually more comfortable and provide better access to the third row.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, my dog would just ride shotgun. Or she would lay like in front of or between the captain's chairs, depending on how everything was all set up. But she's a pretty big dog. Golden retrievers take up space. But I hear you. Bench seat for the dog. That's when they're really living large. When you get a nice like good old bench seat for the dog. So I hear you. We'll see. Like I said, I hope you get into one more time. We've certainly put the miles on this Palisade. It's been the North Carolina twice, I think. I forget if it's actually been the Florida or not. I think that was our minivan, the Pacifica we had a couple of years ago.
Made a couple of trips to Florida. May have been to the East Coast. But that's the idea here. Is we use them, we experience them, check out our long term coverage. Because we've had some kind of weird issues with it too. So check that out. Rodents have been friends with it. That's been a problem. But yeah. That's a long term Palisade. Let's head on over to the V12 BMW 7 Series.
This is the last one. There will not be another one. M760I. It's going to roll off the line in June of this year. You might be actually-- almost the headline here is almost like, you might be surprised to know you can still get a V12 BMW 7 Series. You really can't get one of these. But they were making them well into this new modern century. Long after V12's had gone out of any sort of like mainstream application.
I was just pulling up a driver's notes we did about 4 and 1/2 years ago here. Five years almost. We had a M760 with the V12 in the fleet back in August of '17. So many of us have actually driven a version of this car. To me it's just a wild thing. But, you know, it's get this or maybe get an Alpine if you're looking for something truly unique. And you're like you want to drive your 7 series.
Definitely a different spin on the executive sedan. Were you ever a v-12 guy there, Joel? Are you more of like Alpine or go with one of the turbo options? What do you think?
JOEL STOCKDALE: Yeah. I mean, I like a good V12 in like a supercar or something. But especially nowadays, I don't know. I guess I don't have a whole lot of love lost for the V12 executive sedan. Because I drove that 760 that we had. It is 760, right? Not 750?
GREG MIGLIORE: 60. That's right.
JOEL STOCKDALE: OK. And the whole time I was like, you know, I would be hard pressed to tell at all what engine was under the hood of that thing. Because it was so quiet and smooth. And modern twin turbo V8's are also very quiet and very smooth. Yeah, it was one of those things where it didn't really feel like it really contributed to the driving experience, especially when the Alpine with the V8 makes about the same power and costs like $20,000 less. And frankly I think the Alpine looks nicer. It really felt like you're spending a lot of money to have the badges and to tell people that I have the V12 one.
Which I understand is the thing that rich people like to do. But yeah, the whole time I was just like, this doesn't really feel like it's doing anything to make this a better car. And if it's not doing that, I don't see the point. I'm not necessarily swayed by, I have the badges and I have the money.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I am looking through our old notes here and-- this is an expensive car we had here. The one we tested was 179,595. 0 to 60 and 3.6 seconds. Which honestly, that sounds a little-- all right, sure. I believe that. Driving the 7 Series is like driving a very large almost ocean liner in some ways. Despite the fact that it does handle pretty well. I've driven it on a couple of tracks, believe it or not.
6.6 liter twin turbo V12. 600 horsepower, 590 pound feet of torque. Is what we had in the fleet. Like I said, 4 and 1/2 years ago. It's pretty wild. Yeah, I mean, it's like a dinosaur. It's going extinct. That's what's happening. That's what's going on.
I would agree with you. I would get the Alpine because it's a better execution. I actually happen to really like what Alpine does to many BMWs. I think they're very classy. They're different. I will say this. It's tough to like-- if you're a BMW person and you can say, hey, I have a V12. I mean, that is kind of awesome. You know, I haven't gone over the list of the number of V12s that I see out there. But it's very short.
JOEL STOCKDALE: Yeah. And I actually kind of think that maybe part of the reason that it didn't really feel that different is the fact that it is a twin turbo V12.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKDALE: And turbos tend to dominate the character of the engine when they show up. Like if it was a naturally aspirated V12, I think that would make it a much more interesting and more unique experience that might be worth the extra money. It probably wouldn't make the same kind of power. And that would probably be the issue, is that some rich guy would walk into the BMW dealer and see that the V12 one is less powerful than the V8 one and be like, well, I'm going to buy the V8 one. Because you've got to have the bigger number.
GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, to me it's not even the horsepower. It's just V12. You know, like that's where you're kind of like-- It's just such that it's a rare engine. When you tell me what's in a V12 I'm thinking of like a V12 Phaeton or something. Or like a Duesenberg. I digress. Let's go to the present tense here.
And Bollinger announced last week they're going to shift from basically a consumer strategy to more of a commercial strategy. They're actually going as far as refunding the deposits of people who put money down for their sort of like everyday consumer vehicles. I was a little bit surprised to see this. Check out the story by our green editor Jon Snyder. Obviously they're trying to do something to essentially make their company viable. Go with the scale, do the commercial work. And then perhaps add the public sales later on. Makes sense.
They were very forward. You can check out Robert Bollinger videos on Instagram. And I think we have some stuff like that embedded in our story. But, you know, that's the economic side of it. For me, I'm a little sad. Because I thought it was a really cool truck, cool truck and SUV. You know, it was sort of like if you were looking for that kind of really old school-- even more old school than the 4Runner type of look-- that was out there.
JOEL STOCKDALE: I think this is a smart move on their part. And I think the main thing being that in the consumer space, the legacy automakers are now offering basically the look and feel of what they were going to offer but with all of the modern amenities of modern vehicles. Because the Bolinger vehicles were basically like a steel box on an electric driving platform. And they implemented some neat design details. But if you want like an old school looking SUV, well, in addition to the Wrangler, now you've got the Bronco to pick from.
And if you want an electric pickup truck, if you just need like a workhorse you can buy the F-150 Lightning. Or if you want like a flashy, off-road unique looking thing, the Hummer is coming out very soon. So why would you spend as much, if not a whole lot more, for something far more basic? I hesitate to say crude, but, I mean, they are no frills designs.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I don't think they would fare particularly well with what's coming out very quickly from established automakers with established dealer networks for less money with more amenities and safety features.
And I think this is a smart move for them. And I hope it turns out well. Because it does kind of feel like even the commercial space is starting to get kind of crowded with electric possibilities. Rivian is making vans for Amazon. GM is working on vans. And even like Ford and Stellantis have electric versions of their commercial vans both of them for sale overseas. And could probably implement them pretty easily in the US.
JOEL STOCKDALE: I would agree with you. I think Olinger's play-- I remember actually I think I wrote the first story on them going back to 2017 and this podcast. It was just this really cool almost like luxury item. You know what I mean? Just really something special. Something different. So I do kind of wonder how you're going to translate that to the commercial space. Because I always thought maybe they can be almost like this expensive retro like toy. So we'll see it. If they're not going to do that, I do kind of wonder what they're going to do in the commercial space. They have a plan. Hopefully they can iron it out.
But it's definitely a big pivot for the company and how they were originally positioned. And, hey, that's what you got to do. I mean, once again, going back to 2017, a lot of things have happened since then. You mentioned all the different companies, from Rivian to Ford to Chevy that now have plans for electric trucks. It just shows how quickly this business moves and how you have to be able to adapt. And you never know where your competitors are going to come from.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. And I do think like if they do focus on sort of like chassis cab type stuff that can be easily reconfigured for different needs-- whether it's like a moving truck or like a utility truck for like a power company or something and stuff like that. I think there's some potential there, especially for like slightly heavier duty kind of things. And I think that is kind of what they're looking at. I think that could be good for them. Because it does feel like a lot of the legacy automakers are looking at slightly lighter duty vans. And at least like in terms of the F-150 Lightning, it only comes in one cab and bed configuration right now. And the Chevy Silverado electric truck, that's a unibody truck. So that's not really reconfigurable very easily.
So I think they have an opportunity. I hope they move fairly quickly. Because I think that'll be a key thing. All right so we're mentioning old Toyota SUVs earlier, the 4Runner. The Sequoia, we're going to see a new one coming up in the coming weeks. There's a teaser out this week. It's obviously lucrative segment. And Toyota has not invested much in the Sequoia in years. So what do we know about this so far, Joel?
JOEL STOCKDALE: So we don't know a whole lot. In fact, Toyota was even kind of cagey about actually saying that the teaser was for the Sequoia when they first put it out. But there were a couple of hints, including one that was only visible when you were playing with the brightness and exposure on the photo that made it very clear that it was the Sequoia. And it is an SUV that I would say is long, long overdue for a replacement. Like the current one is, I believe, even older than the 4Runner is. And has received fewer facelifts and updates.
I drove one a little bit off road when I went down to Toyota last summer for their big-- what I refer to as their Toyota-thon. Where they just told us everything they were like launching for the coming year. And I drove it and I was not impressed. Like the 4Runner feels well put together and has reasonably decent materials. But the Sequoia, it feels cheap in almost every sense. It feels cheap and old in almost every sense of the word.
And like it's based on the old Tundra. But it never even got the interior updates that the Tundra got or anything like that. So it's a really old thing. The new version, we are expecting it to be based on the new Tundra. Just kind of like the old one. And it sounds like it will be built at the San Antonio, Texas plant, alongside the Tundra. So that would also lead us to believe that it's derived from the pickup truck. Now, based on the old Sequoia, which had fully independent suspension front and rear, which was significantly different from the Tundra, we're guessing that that will continue to be the case. That the new one will still have independent suspension. Which would also put it on par with the Tahoe and the Expedition, both of which feature independent suspension.
It should get the Twin turbo V6. We don't know yet if it will have just the regular twin turbo V6 or if it'll be available with the hybrid. I think if they offer the hybrid, that would be a very interesting selling point. Kind of like we were talking about with the diesel engine on the GM trucks. But that's kind of the extent of what we know. It will be revealed this coming Tuesday, January 25. So we don't have long to wait. And they only just launched-- they only just put out teaser images this week. So it's going to be a quick turnaround. We're not going to be waiting around for months wondering when we're going to see it. So be sure to tune in to Autoblog next week when we have coverage on the new SUV.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well said, I would say.
JOEL STOCKDALE: And, I mean, we're expecting it to be available with three rows of seats like the current one. We have yet to see whether they'll offer it in two different wheel bases like Tahoe and Expedition. And their long counterparts, the Suburban Expedition Max. Is it Expedition Max? Because for a while I think they called it the EL. That was after they discontinued the Excursion and made the long version of the Expedition. Anyway, I'm kind of digressing a little bit. Yeah, so should be interesting to see how that pans out.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think it's a crowded segment, you know? There's a lot of good things in there. Everything from the Grand Wagoneer to the Tahoe to the Expedition. It's definitely a segment that's lucrative. If you're going to be there, I think it's smart for Toyota to go ahead and invest in it and try and make something that's credible.
JOEL STOCKDALE: It'll also be interesting to see what they do for kind of off road capability and stuff. Since they're discontinuing the Land Cruiser here in the United States, it'll be interesting to see if they try and make the Sequoia kind of fill that space a little bit more for them. Because it used to be that like, well, the Sequoia wasn't quite this full on off roader the Land Cruiser was.
Because there was the Land Cruiser. But now that's gone. And so there's a little bit of room for something interesting to show up in that area.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think that's a very logical move. Sequoia with some TRD parts on it. Sounds kind of interesting to me. I'll be very intrigued to see what they can pull off here so. Tune in next week. If you enjoy the Autoblog podcast, please give us a five star rating on Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Send us your Spend My Moneys. That's podcast@autoblog.com. Or if you have any Mailbag questions. You want to know more about whether it's the Sequoia, the 4Runner, any questions about our long term cars or whatever is going on in the industry. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks for joining me this week, Joel. Everybody be safe out there. We'll see you next week.
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