Filed under: Euro, Green, Paris Motor Show, Crossovers/CUVs, Hatchbacks, Subaru
Paris Preview: Subaru debuts boxer diesel Forester and Impreza
Click above for gallery of Subaru's newest diesel-powered models
Subaru debuted its new 2.0L diesel boxer engine earlier this year in the Legacy and Outback, and soon it will also be offered in the Forester and Impreza, though only in Europe. These two latest models to feature the unique horizontally opposed oil-burning engines will debut at the Paris Motor Show next month. The Forester 2.0D will offer 147 horsepower and 258 lb-ft of torque while returning 44.8 combined mpg in the European cycle, which is class-leading for a small CUV over there, while the Impreza 2.0D offers 148 hp and 258 lb-ft (fuel economy for the Impreza 2.0D was not released for some reason). The diesel Forester will hit showrooms later this month while Euro shoppers will have to wait until January for the diesel Impreza. While we certainly hope Subaru is tweaking its 2.0L diesel boxer engine to meet emissions standards in all 50 U.S. states, we haven't heard one word about it. 
[Source: Subaru]
PRESS RELEASE
BOXER DIESEL FORESTER AND IMPREZA UNVEILED AT PARIS MOTOR SHOW
Subaru's highly-acclaimed new Boxer Diesel engine will appear for the first time in both the new Forester and Impreza at the 2008 Paris Motor Show (October 4-19).
Meanwhile, other highlights include a Subaru Impreza WRX2008 replica plus the Subaru R1e and G4e electric cars. There will also be a 50th Anniversary Display showcasing the original Subaru 360 minicar.
Subaru's press conference takes place on the Subaru stand at 17.00 hours on Thursday, October 2, 2008.
New Boxer Diesel Forester And Impreza
Both the new Forester SUV and Impreza five-door will be unveiled featuring Subaru's highly-acclaimed new 2.0 litre Boxer Diesel engine.
The world's first horizontally-opposed diesel engine for a passenger car has won widespread praise for its refinement, smoothness, sharp throttle-response and outstanding fuel economy. It first appeared in the Legacy and Outback earlier this year.
Both the Forester and Impreza Boxer Diesels feature new six-speed manual gearboxes while the engine itself benefits from a new closed-type diesel particulate filter.
Such is the efficiency of the new engine that the Forester 2.0D boasts class-leading fuel economy and emissions.
No other SUV can better the 44.8 mpg Combined and 167 g/km of the Forester 2.0D X.
The Forester 2.0D produces 147 PS and 258 lb ft torque and the Impreza 150 PS and 258 lb ft – both at 3,600 rpm and 1,800 rpm respectively.
The engine's benefits include exceptional compactness, light weight and a low centre-of-gravity which benefits handling agility and makes best use of the standard all-wheel drive system.
The new Forester Boxer Diesel goes on sale in the UK in late September and the Impreza Boxer Diesel in January 2009.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
dartingd 11:14AM (9/05/2008)
subaru not giving us a diesel in the states in the reason my current forester will be my last..subaru's gas mileage numbers just suck!
Reply
Josiah 11:30AM (9/05/2008)
The new Forester is teh-sex. My parents went from a Forester to a B9 to another Forester and couldn't be happier with the car and the gas mileage.
djSyndrome 12:36PM (9/05/2008)
The mileage numbers 'just suck'? Let's look at comparable cars with all-wheel drive.
Impreza (4sp auto) 20/27
Matrix 4WD (4sp auto) 20/26
Forester (4sp auto) 20/26
RAV4 (4sp auto 4cyl. 4WD) 21/27
CR-V (5sp auto 4WD) 20/26
Mazda Tribute (4sp auto 4WD) 19/24
Geeky1 12:55PM (9/05/2008)
"Subaru's gas mileage numbers just suck"
Hrm. Looks like djSyndrome beat me to it (damn posting at work), but I already had it typed, so...
Let's see here...
MY2007:
Forester NA/auto: 20/25
Forester Turbo/auto: 18/23
RAV4 AWD 4cyl/auto: 20/25
RAV4 AWD 6cyl/auto: 19/26
CR-V AWD 4cyl/auto: 19/26
Dodge Caliber FWD 4cyl/CVT: 21/25
MY2009:
Forester NA/auto: 20/26
Forester Turbo/auto: 19/24
RAV4 AWD 6cyl/auto: 19/26
Tiguan AWD 4cyl/auto: 18/24
Journey AWD 6cyl/auto: 15/22
Others...
2008 Legacy NA 4cyl (both auto & manual get the same mileage): 20/27
2008 Camry 4cyl (both auto & manual get the same mileage): 21/31
2008 Legacy 6cyl/Auto: 17/24
2008 Camry 6cyl/Auto: 19/28
So... Uh... With your Forester, assuming it's similar to the 07/09s, you're giving up, at worst, about 3mpg on the freeway according to the EPA, which is ~12.5%. At 12,000 miles a year, assuming you got 3mpg worse mileage (which I think is unlikely, since the combined mileage for the 07 Forester Turbo is 20, and for the 07 RAV-4 6cyl it's 21), you'd have used ~60 gallons more gas. Which works out, to, uh, $270 at $4.50/gallon.
So yeah... I don't know what you consider reasonable mileage for an SUV with the aerodynamics of a brick, but I'd say an additional $250-300/yr per 12,000 miles in gas is worth it for a car that feels like a car, not an applianc...er, I mean, not a Toyota.
why not the LS2LS7? 1:04PM (9/05/2008)
Now compare to other sporty sedans and hot hatches.
The mpg figures do suck compared to the competition. Of course, it is due to the AWD, but what if you don't have a use for the AWD? What if you live in Florida?
Mino 1:25PM (9/05/2008)
@whynot
awd is good in florida, we get lots of rain~!!!!
MikeW 1:40PM (9/05/2008)
Lets hope that Subaru would offer this engine with the 7 speed automatic, with the 45/55 center differential.
BigMcLargeHuge 1:50PM (9/05/2008)
@ LS7,
Actually its not due to the AWD. Its due to the fact that Subaru hasn't gone direct injection yet.
The Legacy GT is 200lbs heavier than the MS3, and has the 'fuel-sapping' AWD. Yet the mileage is identical for a
two-and-a-half-liter turbo 4. Same for the new 2009 WRX.
The 2008 Mazda 3 and the Impreza are almost identical in size and weight. (showing that AWD doesn't add a ton of mass) But the Mazda gets only 2mpg better. Why? Because the Suby comes with an extra 20hp.
Now that Mazda has gone DI, their numbers should jump up some. Suby should consider doing the same.
The VW Jetta 2.5 FWD doesn't get much better than an Impreza or Legacy either.
They do not suck compared to basically any equally equipped competitors. They actually line up just where you'd expect them for their size and power.
why not the LS2LS7? 2:27PM (9/05/2008)
It's due to the AWD. Back when no one had DI, Subaru was already way behind on mpg.
If you are finding advantage to AWD in the rain, you're driving too fast. AWD doesn't help you steer or stop, and those go down in rain too.
BoneHeadOtto 3:27PM (9/05/2008)
I wish subaru had kept up with the 2.0L instead of the 2.5. Teh smaller engine just gets better mileage. If i drive my 2002 WRX conservatively i can get 25-27mpg in 50/50 city highway driving. They need to make that smart drive whatever stuff have a setting that seriously improves mileage. I certainly think they could do it. Just add 10-15% by limiting boost
Geeky1 3:28PM (9/05/2008)
Slow day at work, so...
@ WhyNot:
Ok. Let's go ahead and compare some of the sportier sedans and stuff. Going with MY2008 this time because the 09 Impreza isn't on Fueleconomy.gov yet that I saw.
Audi A3 Quattro 5d/manual: 18/25, 21 combined
BMW 135i coupe/manual: 17/25, 20 combined
BMW 128i coupe/manual: 18/28, 21 combined
Chevrolet Cobalt SS: 22/30, 25 combined
Mazdaspeed 3 5d/manual: 18/26, 20 combined
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X 4d/automated manual: 17/22, 19 combined
Subaru Impreza WRX 5d/manual: 19/25, 21 combined
Subaru Impreza WRX STI 5d/manual: 17/23, 19 combined
Volkswagen GTI 3d/manual: 20/29, 24 combined
Volkswagen R32 3d/automated manual: 18/23, 20 combined
Or we could go to a more luxury oriented market;
Acura TL-S 4d/6spd: 18/27, 21 combined
Audi A4 3.2 Quattro 4d/manual (AWD): 15/25, 19 combined
BMW 128i 4d/manual: 17/28, 21 combined
BMW 128xi 4d/manual (AWD): 16/25, 20 combined
BMW 335i 4d/manual: 17/26, 20 combined
BMW 335xi 4d/manual (AWD): 16/25, 19 combined
Infiniti G35 4d/manual: 17/25, 20 combined
Infiniti G35x 4d/auto (AWD): 17/23, 19 combined
Pontiac G8 (V8) 4d/auto: 15/24, 18 combined
Subaru Legacy GT Spec B 4d/manual: 16/25, 19 combined
(all figures from fueleconomy.gov)
Again... not that big of a difference that I see, for the most part. The only standouts I see are the GTI and the Cobalt SS, and those are appreciably better in combined mileage and on the freeway than EVERYTHING else, not just the WRX. And since someone may point it out, yes, I did leave out the A4 2.0T Quattro in the second list; not because of the mileage (20/28, 23 combined) but because I think it's totally outclassed, performance wise. The only 0-60 time I found in a quick search was for an 05 model and that did it in 7.2 seconds. Which is downright laughable for a "sporty" car. Everything else in that second group except maybe the 328s and the Acura are sub-6-second cars, and I, for one, wouldn't cross shop a slug like the 2.0 with anything in that list.
So... I don't know where people get this stuff. Maybe there's some Subaru model that I don't know about that gets 4mpg on the freeway or something, I dunno. But I'm pretty sure those lists are quite comprehensive, if not exhaustive, and all I see is that they're on the low side of average relative to their competition, but not extremely so by any stretch. Am I missing something here?
Graham 11:34PM (9/05/2008)
@Geeky
"Audi A3 Quattro 5d/manual: 18/25, 21 combined"
I don't know where you get this number from but this is wrong. 08 A3 2.0T gets: 22 city 29hwy
You chose the AWD version which in 08 was exclusively a 6 cylinder motor pumping out 255hp and weighs quite a bit more. So not exactly a fair comparison. Ditto for the R32, 6 cyl only.
In 09 Audi has paired DSG (auto) transmission, Quattro with 2.0T which gets you: 21 city 28 hwy. The Audi weighs about 200 lbs more than the Impreza as well. So to sum up, the Audi weighs more, has more horsepower and has a better transmission and gets slightly better fuel economy than the Impreza (non-WRX).
Sure the Audi costs about 10K more but that probably has more to do with leather seats, more standard features and German manufacturing costs and status brand than the actual technology.
Subaru could do three or four simple things that would improve their fuel economy: 1) Add a 6-speed auto 2) use direct injection 3) use a small turbo to boost power. 4) Trim a bit more weight.
In other words, they should build a GTI/A3 and charge less for it. There is huge market for fuel efficient, fun to drive vehicles. If that car is a diesel ... great, bring it on!
BigMcLargeHuge 5:10PM (9/05/2008)
@LS7,
It is not, because they have never been way behind. That's like saying 'the zero difference in mileage is due to the AWD'. They never were really far behind of even many of the FWD competitors.
And AWD most certainly does help in the rain for everything but stopping.
AWD is most useful in 'steering' as you say, whether you are talking wet or dry. The advantage to straight-line acceleration is miniscule by comparison.
AWD systems don't recognize 'snow'. They recognize slip. Any slick surface can cause slip, and they adjust torque to the wheels not slipping to force the vehicle along its intended vector.
To an AWD system, snow is like an 8/10 on the slip scale. Rain might be more like a 2.
And traction is not all-or-nothing. Even when the vehicle is slipping, some traction can still be applied to the ground and controllable. Granted, this takes skill and shouldn't be pushed on the road.
But ANY slip can be controlled better with more drive wheels. It is just as legitimate a weather-aid as traction control. In that case, the slipping wheel is braked, instead of the other wheels sped up. The affect is about the same. In conjunction, they are even more effective.
That is how these systems are programmed to work from Porsche, Audi, BMW, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Nissan, and a half-dozen others.
why not the LS2LS7? 6:12PM (9/05/2008)
Compare the regular Impreza instead.
20/27.
Even VW gets better with the 22/29 Rabbit.
Civic? 26/34
Cobalt? 25/36 (37 hwy in 2009)
Corollazzzzzzzzzz? (sorry I dozed off) 28/37
Saturn? 24/32
Kia Spectra? 24/32
Caliber? 23/29
Mazda3? 24/32
You're gonna come back and say the Impreza is sporty. You'd better, because it gets crappy gas mileage.
BigMcLargeHuge 6:48PM (9/05/2008)
Your premise/conclusion don't necessarily line up.
Geeky explained it better.
AWD alone only costs any of those models 1mpg. I said it is almost as good as many FWD competitors. Like the Golf, which is more compact than the Impreza. And the Jetta and base Mazda 3.
Others are improving, no doubt. Remove the AWD and make up a whopping 1mpg? Not going to solve the problem.
why not the LS2LS7? 8:04PM (9/05/2008)
It is mathematically incorrect to say "costs 1mpg" when speaking of a range of vehicles. There's no such thing as an "mpg".
If it cost 1mpg on a vehicle making 10mpg, it would be wasting 0.111 gallons (of gas energy equivalent) per mile. If it cost 1mpg on a vehicle making 50mpg, it would be wasting 0.0222 gallons (of gas energy equivalent) per mile.
You need to rethink your figures before you can start to anywhere near accurately reflect how much gas AWD is wasting.
I have no doubt an Impreza could get competitive mileage with other cars if it were redesigned around FWD (not just swapped a few parts).
tankd0g 11:16PM (9/05/2008)
Yes folks, all awd cars have crap mileage, the difference is you don't have a choice with Subaru. If they refuse to do something about this they are going to be a small player in American forever.
tankd0g 11:16PM (9/05/2008)
So what does Subaru have that completes with the best selling Civic? Are they simply content to watch their sales numbers go down as gas prices rise? What's going to finance future versions of the STI, are they going to massively mark up the price of their over the counter head gaskets?
why not the LS2LS7? 12:47AM (9/06/2008)
I wish to reconsider my last post. Although "1 mpg" isn't a fixed thing, it doesn't mean it can't be a handy shorthand at times, so I shouldn't have criticized the use of it.
BigMcLargeHuge 2:00PM (9/06/2008)
@tankdog,
Are you aware of what thread you are posting on?
Diesel Legacy and Forester have class-leading economy in Europe.
If the AWD system is the same (which it is) and the engine is what's different, obviously it is the powerplant that is responsible for 90% of what the mpg yield is.
Obviously, with the right power plant, AWD cars can get mileage that is more than adequate.
The chassis is just fine. We need powerplants like the one above (with clean filtering of course) and some DI revised petrol powerplants.
AWD is not the enemy. And Subaru doesn't need to become a major market player when Toyota is their daddy. Creating a FWD Impreza would just be badge-engineering a Corolla/Matrix.
How many mainstream cars do you need that are exactly the same? Subaru sales were up by 14% in August. They expand their niche by being slightly different.