Last Tuesday the Toyota Tundra was kicked off the Consumer Reports "Recommended" list for achieving below average predicted reliability scores from its own owners. It appears, however, that the Tundra's week is about to get worse. With the help of Mike Levine from Pickuptruck.com, we're following two separate stories about Tundra quality issues that have surfaced recently. The first involves the Tundra's transmission, with at least ten owners at TundraSolutions.com reporting that their trannies experience rough shifts that make the truck feel like it's riding over rumble strips. The 'rumble strip' transmission issue has been acknowledged by Toyota North America and traced back to the torque converter not disengaging properly. Owners report having their transmissions replaced with new or remanufactured ones, though Toyota told Levine that going forward the automaker would only replace the torque converter itself. Toyota did not say, however, how many trucks are affected, just that the transmission problem is not a safety or design issue. The second quality issue sprouted up this past weekend, also on TundraSolutions.com, and involves tailgates that have been failing or, in some cases, even falling off. The most common experience seems to be the tailgate itself forming cracks and the metal buckling when under load. One owner reported that his tailgate failed when loading an ATV into the bed for the very first time. The tailgate being such an integral part of owning a truck, members of TS have begun an online petition, which they hope will force Toyota to recognize the issue and do something about it. The petition has attracted 125 signatures so far. Levine from Pickuptruck.com has also asked Toyota about these potentially failing tailgates and is waiting for a response.
Yes, the Toyota Tundra has had a very rough week, but it's no more difficult than the time Tundra owners spend with trucks that don't work as advertised.
[Source: Pickuptruck.com, TundraSolutions.com]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
seoultrain @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:37AM
Like Peter Griffin, Toyota seems to have become too big for its own good.
"My god, it's finally happened! He's become so massive he's collapsed into himself, like a neutron star!"
willem @ Oct 22nd 2007 1:04PM
The only object more dense than a neutron star is the mind of a Toy apologist.
MacGuffin @ Oct 22nd 2007 1:44PM
I'm sure that Irv Miller and his band of merry spin-meisters in the TMS PR Dept. will tell us that they are all over this and that IT IS NOT because Toyota has grown too big too fast.
Timsvtgen1 @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:37AM
Tisk Tisk.
Ben K. @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:39AM
Moving forward? Two Toyota executives have left for greener pastures recently. With recalls mounting, it will get worse before it gets better. Toyota is experiencing the fallout from rapid growth. Bigger isn't always better, it's difficult to rebuild a reputation in this industry.
CR @ Oct 25th 2007 12:52PM
I agree thats why Detroit auto makers have had so much trouble, Quality in all cars matters more than in just a couple trucks, I mean the new Focus has rear drums...this is not 1981, come on no drum brakes on new cars.
bryan @ Oct 25th 2007 9:48PM
Do you have any clue why they left? It was because Ford and Chrysler paid them stupid money to come try to save their behinds... These 2 guys are laughing all the way to the bank... They both know that they won't be able to save the sinking ship but boy will they have a nice nest egg when they're done.
So who's the fool?
Schmeltz @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:40AM
Does anyone know how serious this transmission issue is, i.e. is it true that a new/re-manufactured trans. has to be installed to fix the problem, or is the torque converter fix sufficient? If new transmissions would be required---then ouch!
These recalls and others such as the camshaft issue months ago are suprising coming from Toyota. It looks like No one is safe from the evil re-call monster.
Greg @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:49AM
My 4 cyl, 4 spd auto 2004 Camry had the same "rumble strip" problem when upshifting from 1st to 2nd and Toyota would not acknowledge the problem for a long time. The problem was finally masked but never totally fixed as the rumble is gone but the long delay during the shift is still present. Toyota has drivetrain problems across the board with recent models it seems.
psarhjinian @ Oct 22nd 2007 12:50PM
Two points:
1. Remember the first year of the Ford Focus? New plant, new design, new suppliers, FOURTEEN RECALLS IN ONE YEAR. Other than the Ford Fusion (not a new plant, not a new platform) I can't think of any new model that didn't have a rocky start. As domestic fans have been saying (rightly) for years, recalls do not equal long-term reliability.
2. Check the reliability ratings of any of the fullsize trucks? The Tundra is still the best of the lot. If you read the NHTSA complaint databases, it doesn't get any prettier for any of the manufacturers, especially Chrysler and GM.
No, a recall isn't okay, but they're forgivable if they're handled promptly. It sounds like Toyota is handling these and it's too early in the Tundra's lifespan (and it's too unlike it's predecessor) to comment on the long-term durability of the thing.
tbss_in_the_D @ Oct 22nd 2007 1:10PM
GM's Delta Twp. Plant. It is brand new with a brand new platform and vehicle. Guess what...NO RECALLS. I has had a couple of small service bulletins, but no recalls.
Mike @ Oct 22nd 2007 1:30PM
psarhjinian,
Failed launches just aren't acceptable anymore, especially for a company that claims it's green and reliable while launching a gas guzzler with multiple problems.
Ford has launched the new F150 in '04, the new Mustang in '05, the Fusion in '06, the Edge in '07 and none have suffered from this kind of quality whether in launch or later downcycle.
For the record, go and look at the posts on the tailgate issue. The issue isn't due to poor plant quality, it's due to piss poor design that was intended to save money.
I find it funny that you and others tell on how everyone is blasting Toyota. There's a reason. They are arrogant, claim to be things they are not, and keep making the same mistakes that GM and Ford had made for years. If they were humble and stood up and took blame for their mistakes, no one would be so pissed at them for failing to live up to their own claims.
Don @ Oct 26th 2007 2:15PM
As an owner of an '00 Focus in all its recall laden glory...I can honestly say I'd gladly take a Camry with this "rumble strip" problem.
David @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:50AM
I am a dedicated Toyota driver...I drive an 01 Prius...and I like the tiniest Tacoma short bed. However, if I go shopping for a large truck, I'm going to the domestics. Period. End of story. I don't like the Tundra or even the idea of it. I also find it to be exceedingly unattractive. I drove a Dodge Ram 4X4 225K miles and, while it had it's issues, was a solid TRUCK. The Tundra isn't enough. Small trucks only please. Oh! That goes for you too Nissan.
psarhjinian @ Oct 22nd 2007 12:28PM
This is one of the things that suprises me: "it had issues, but it was a solid truck". Either the product is solid, or it isn't. Now, this is an objective experience, but I can't think of one truck owner who hasn't had to replace a transmission, but still considers the vehicle "solid". I think people who buy certain products (trucks, Crown Vics, some European imports) have a different perspective on "solid' than someone who buys a Civic or Corolla.
My Saab has issues. Lots of issues. I could see it going a million miles, but it won't be pleasant. I know a lot of Saab owners who will say the same thing: that it's a solid vehicle, even when it's costing $3000/year in upkeep. Solid means nothing breaks or wears out unexpectedly, not that it needed a transmission at 150K but can still tow a boat.
I think the Tundra has teething pains. It's a new design and new product from a new plant with new suppliers. I also think that Toyota is under a microscope now that they've made a serious challenge to GM. First-year teething problems are no real suprise for any make (have a look at CR and note that every product does worse in a new year, especially if it's a new design) and have been characteristic of Toyota for some time. The real proof will be if the long-term durability holds up and, thusfar, they've still been doing quite well.
I also think that Toyota is suffering media backlash, especially among 2nd-tier automotive publications (ie, not Car And Driver and the other traditional print mags). This started with the Prius and got a lot worse when they a) passed GM in sales and b) released the Tundra. It's like it was ok when Toyota was making microcars, but something about the Tundra personally offends (or scares) people. I think there's an undercurrent of fear there, too, that the last bastion of the North American auto industry could be in real trouble as Toyota (and Nissan) get closer to the mark.
I also think that I haven't seen single positive Toyota story on Autoblog in some time. I've also seen some pretty shameless spin: like the recent Toyota/CR story that conveniently buried the fact that. even with the Camry and Tundra taking hits, Toyota still holds a larger chunk of the reliable vehicles pie. I don't think it's anti-Toyota bias per se, but I do think that Autoblog's owners are appreciating the ad revenue that a good Toyota-bash generates.
Vivek @ Oct 22nd 2007 12:37PM
So tailgates falling off, transmissions blowing up all in the first seems to indicate to you that this truck would be good reliable one longterm?
Okay i learned something here today.
AZMike @ Oct 22nd 2007 12:52PM
"teething pains?"
when can you remember the last time a domestic pickup had a problem with the tailgate cracking and falling off? excessive bed shake? we're not taking about some rusty 25 year old truck that spend its life in Michigan, but a brand new truck.
the transmission issue is rather scary too; it's hard to imagine this didn't show up in endurance testing. I think there was just a big push to get the truck to market, and quality be damned.
Toyota is really under the gun on this one. they had lots of big plans building the new factory outside of San Antonio, and it was set up to build 500,000 units annually. and let's not forget the one in Princeton, Indiana; there's another 300,000+ there, including the forgettable Sequoia.
so we have a total production capacity of over 800,000+ trucks, and Toyota will reach its "goal" of 200,000 Tundras for the year. you can spin this any way you want, but it looks like a whole bunch of overcapacity to me.
the head folks from Japan who set up the San Antonio facility were "called home" to Japan before it was even completed. this dosn't happen when success is on the horizon.
I'm sure the small-timer's bible, Consumer Reports, hasn't even done reliability ratings on the 2007 models yet. perhaps the worst is yet to come for Toyota.
AZMike
howard @ Oct 22nd 2007 6:19PM
David; I'll bet you believed those phony Tundra commercials showing Tundra stopping with 10,000 lbs on a trailer? They don't show the tires smoking on the trailer locked up and the 5/8 th inch cable running under the truck and trailer back to a winch with the brake on it smoking. then the tundra pulling the 10,000 lb trailer up over the clif, again, enter the famous cable and winch. Those Japanese think the American public will believe any thing since they pulled the wool over our eyes on the U.S.S. Missouri in Tokyo Bay in 1945. They would have agreed to anything to stop the American invasion of the Home Islands which would have been preceeded by three low yeald atomic bombs obliterating the Japanese population!
Biff Baxter @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:58AM
Toyota and their supporters will handle this latest revelation by ridiculing and blaming the domestic Big 3. But it's all going to be OK because IT'S TOYOTA!
Oh what a feeling.....
(Cue the choirs and release the doves....)
psarhjinian @ Oct 22nd 2007 12:38PM
You know, I hear this in every Toyota post. I have yet to see the kind of pro-Toyota comment that domestic fans claim will happen. I might see one twerp make a "Found on Road Dead" comment, but it's pretty rare.
What I do see, without fail, is at least a page worth of incredible chip-on-the-shoulder whining about Toyota, it's fans and the media and how unfair it is that they get a free pass.
I don't actually see the free pass happening, but it doesn't silence the whining. It's usually GM people, too.