Yeah, it would suck having a stable job at a prospering company.

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"I would cry too if I had to work for Toyota"

And probably, so would Toyota.

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Unfortunately, Jimmy is a figurehead...nothing more. A keen understanding of how the Japanese culture—and especially major Japanese corporations—work will quickly tell you that Jimmy is a token; a matter of convenience will little to no real power (power, which is dominated and comes straight from the parent office in Japan, by the hierarchy there). Too bad.

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"...that which could land a person two military retirements .."

Probably a better medical and a bit more money as well.

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You are one-hundred percent correct! No matter what anyone thinks, no matter how many factories Toyota builds in the US, Toyota's loyally and core will always remain solely, and completely with and in Japan.

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Seeing as how the shareholders meeting was in Japan it would follow that the powerpoint slides would be in Japanese. Not a real surprise.

I don't think there is anything to gloat about here.

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The presentation was in Japan; big surprise it was in kanji instead of English.

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My point was that many Americans *act* like there is no difference. Or that, "all companies are global and blah, blah, blah."

Well, not only can you go look it up on Forbes where a company is from, you can see from their stock holders meeting where a company is from, who they cater to and who has the control of the company. Does that slide and the location of the stockholders meeting do much good for most Americans that yell on autoblog that they can and do own stock in Toyota?

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Isn’t it amazing how being bias and prejudiced eliminates any objective, fair, and thoughtful analysis? Pointing out that a presentation done in JAPAN was in JAPANESE is very weak evidence to support your premise. How egocentric and insensible is it to imply that it should have been done in English.

The bottom line is that Toyota, just like Ford, GM, and Chrysler, is a PROFIT-driven entity. Do they exist to care about the environment? No. Do they exist as representatives of America and Americans? No. Do they exist solely to care about you, your neighbor or. . . your mama? No. They exist to make profit. Period.

Is Toyota as “American” as the Big Three? At the most superficial simple level, no, because Toyota Motor Corporation is a Japanese entity. However, like any analysis, such simple classifications and scrutiny is misleading at best. At an intellectual and more realistic level, with a more in depth analysis (because the world is, well, you know . . . COMPLEX), what is “American” is merely a ghost of what you think that word implies. There is a global market and, consequently to increase PROFIT, all these large auto companies have expanded to become multinational corporations (e.g., Japan and the USA are only 2 of the 26 countries Toyota has manufacturing facilities in). The word “global” appears about 2-3 times per page in Ford’s 116 page 2006 Annual Report (e.g., “Working together as one GLOBAL [i.e., not just AMERICAN] company”). Here’s the direct link from Ford’s website (http://www.ford.com/NR/rdonlyres/ekirlkjtb4dcbsjx46ct3n336ogp7w36kb6npbg57b5v3cwryiouuvjdxfkgduws3ee2uvp5h73gpg3azudhwt63nbe/2006_AR.pdf ).

You would be surprised how “un-American” corporations are. The fact that the Big Three “employ” “Americans” is merely a SECONDARY EFFECT of doing business in America. When it is more PROFITABLE to employ “non-Americans,” guess what Ford, for example, does? To increase PROFITS, they “employ” Mexicans and South Americans - not only in America, but in Mexico and South America. And if the Big Three cared so much about the goodwill of the “American people,” its management should have “managed” in a competently to make good business decisions so that they did not have to close so many factories so that so many “Americans” would be un-employed (But, being a fair-minded person, I cannot ignore the fact that the union was a very significant variable as well). Moreover, let us not forget that Toyota directly “employs” “Americans” too - about 39,000 people at about ~1,800 dealers and five (soon to be six) manufacturing plants. They also make ~$17 billion in direct investments in North America that ends up in the pockets of “Americans.” Toyota has also contributed to the North American economy by purchasing $26+ billion worth of “parts, materials and components.” In addition, they are a publicly traded company that “Americans” own stock. Consequently, through the stock market, Toyota has recently put more money in “Americans” pockets than any of the Big Three have. Not to mention supplying “Americans” with an alternative vehicle that reliably gets them to work everyday with decent gas mileage. Did Toyota do this because it has halos over its corporate headquarters (both the one in Toyota, Aichi, Japan and the one in New York City, New York, USA) or it a secondary effect of being a PROFIT-driven entity? It’s all about PROFITS. Likewise, Toyota, understanding that perception is reality, is trying to create goodwill among “Americans” to make a PROFIT by donating $300+ million as philanthropy to the United States.

Seeing there is a bunch of MULTINATIONAL corporations fighting over market share to increase PROFITS, it is ridiculous to sacrifice your analytical reasoning in an attempt to shield the Big Three from scrutiny. Think more logically than emotionally. This is a free market global economy. I support good products irrespective of country of origin, with the understanding that the manufacturing designed it to make a PROFIT, because it improves MY standard of living. Moreover, I welcome good products from any company because it creates competition, which forces your beloved Big Three to make something decent to make a . . . PROFIT.

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Gee, when did I imply that it should have been done in English? I think I made my point that many Americans consider Toyota as American as GM and it isn't true. The very closed society of Japan is where the overwhelming majority of shareholders (i.e. controllers) of the company reside and have allegence (unlike Americans who have allegence to money).

And to state that the American companies employ Americans just because they do business here is void any "objective, fair, and thoughtful analysis" to quote someone I know think is brilliant. How many Americans assemble Motorola cell phones now-a-days? Kodak cameras? How about zero? So no, that isn't the reason.

Why would Apple make every single ipod it has ever made in a foreign country and you are going to tell me that GM employs Americans just because they do business here? No, it is that Toyota and Honda make cars here (and not Mexico, actually do make vehicles there for sale here but many Americans don't realize this) because GM and Ford did so much for so long. GM and Fords *history* is why GM has actually opened new plants in Delaware for the Sky/Solstice and in Michigan for the Lambda crossovers. Why they did that rather than what Apple does for every piece of overrated hardware they make.

It defies reason why Toyota did a study and U.S. Toyota assemblers get paid 1.5 times more than their Japanese assemblers. It isn't because of some trendy economic condition, no, it is because of the history of the U.S. and GM and Ford making vehicles here and making so many that forces these prices and forces these Toyota assembly jobs to even exist in the first place.

Yes, the Tundra factory is here because of 25% import tarrifs on trucks. The import tarrif exists becuase of GM and Ford. If A=B=C then the Tundra is made here because of GM and Ford. This goes for every other vehicle as well even if just for the PR so that Americans buying foreign feel better about it.


You don't think GM's stock has done well recently? You don't think that there are more people who are older who delve in the stock market that could easily made more off of GM stock over the years (possibly 40 years of investing) than they have with Toyota?

So you want to live in the 5 - 10 year life cycle of proving your point. Very American of you. The Japanese would look over 100 years for their analysis (or a thousand if possible).

I'm not shielding anyone from anything. Facts aren't shielding. It is a fact that after nearly two military retirements of faithful service JP is a token.

You probably aren't American so you would love to have all Americans just believe that leaving what made America strong is much better for us.

You want to think it is all about profits and it is a very very large part of it. But since you like stating things about secondary then one even of your biased nature (PROFIT, PROFIT, PROFIT) must see that by wanting good PR (which may or may not turn into profit) companies build greener plants and cars. GM (and many other companies) has spent Billions (that is U.S. billions since you are probably not American) on things that did not bring them profit. And many times not expecting to profit. GM gave into health care demands of the unions so much so that they owe BILLIONS to that.

The secondary result of GM and Ford originating here and being here so long and making so many vehicles is that everything you see made here (suppliers etc) is because of them; otherwise, Toyota is not above selling us more vehicles from outside the U.S. whether it be from Japan or Mexico or Malaysia. But because we have such a strong history in automobiles this is why it is still strong. GM and Ford are gone tomorrow, the U.S. auto *manufacturing* industry is moved, gauranteed.


Don't tell me about Toyota's piddly recent spending and wealth creation in America. GM probably sinks into health care what Toyota spends in U.S. parts manufacturing (not NA but U.S.) It is not even close that GM has been in probably nearly all 50 countries for between 50 and 100 years (depending where) and paying taxes there and salaries there and suppliers there. Go home with what Toyota has spent into the economy. GM has spent Trillions over the last 100 years.

All this as I am strapped for time but will easily make you look like an ass later this evening.

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BTW, I meant 50 states not 50 countries.

Please, don't rely on "second" accurances for your arguement of anything because I will gladly show a thousand times over that things Toyota is doing here positive for the U.S. is because of the secondary effects of GM and Ford's existence.

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@Lithous

I read your post, and while you're horrifically insulting, condescending, and wrong, you believe your own bullshit so honestly that I have to comment.

You keep singing the praise of American companies like GM for all they do for America. For all the "billion" and "trillion" they pour into the American economy and health care system. You of course fail to prove any of your claims, but whatever.

You then try and debunk the fact that it's all about profits? It's not MOSTLY about profits. It's not 95% about profits. It's 100%. One hundred percent.

You're as naive as you sound if you think otherwise.

You claim that trucks being made in America is just PR so people buying foriegn feel good about it. American companies building trucks in factory is also PURE PR. It's cheaper to do it in Mexico. But a "Real American Company" building "Real American Trucks (TM)" builds in America! It's total fucking PR, and you're a tool for buying into it hook line and sinker.

Name one thing that GM spent billions on that did not make them a profit? GM gave into the healthcare demands of the unions. They didn't "give" that money away. They were forced to do so by a union that could and is ready and able to withhold the labor from the company. GM of course profits from this, since if they refused, they wouldn't have had any workers operating their factories.

Your paragraph about the US Auto Industry being here because of US Auto Companies is written quite terribly and I'm trying to decipher. It sounds like you're saying "Toyota only buys parts from America because American companies are here to supply them. You bet if American companies disapeered, Toyota would buy elsewhere!" But then again, that's like saying "I buy my socks from WalMart, but you bet if WalMart closed, I'd buy them from Target!"

Then you talk about GM has spent "Trillions" in the economy.

You made not a single point on how GM is "giving" away it's money to better the American people.

You have shown how GM is just like Toyota, doing whatever it takes to drive a profit, whether it be spending extra to make trucks in America, supporting American labor, or researching alternative energy. All of these are PR moves that in turn, build company image and drive profits. It's all about profits for any company. GM and Ford are not saints.

They are American corporation who would lower every single one of their workers wages tomorrow without a second hesitation if they could get away with it.

Think about it: Why the fuck do unions exist if corporations aren't manipulative, greedy, exploitative entities?

There should be no love for either company. Buy whatever car you want from whichever company you want, but do not defend one or the other company.

Both only want your money, and will do whatever it takes to take that from you. Neither cares about America outside of the fact that it's their biggest market and biggest moneymaker. Period.

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"You keep singing the praise of American companies like GM for all they do for America. For all the "billion" and "trillion" they pour into the American economy and health care system. You of course fail to prove any of your claims, but whatever."

Prove what? That GM has spent billions or anywhere near a trillion in its lifetime? What do you want me to prove exactly?

GM is over $300 Billion in debt. For the first 50 years of their existence they were profitable. If you are $300 Billion in debt you have spent at least that much. The interest on the $300 Billion is to mostly U.S. entities. But again, not sure what you want me to "prove".




"You then try and debunk the fact that it's all about profits? It's not MOSTLY about profits. It's not 95% about profits. It's 100%. One hundred percent."

No, you are naive to think that it is 100% about profits if GM is over $300 Billion in debt and they haven't just declared bankruptcy and started manufacturing *everything* in China to be sold here. What court would not approve it? What company do you know that is more than $300 Billion in debt? Good lawyers could get it done. Sure that may affect their sales but they could either change their name (like AirTran airlines ValueJet types) or just bring cars over so cheaply from China that no one would care that they went bankrupt because it is all about lowest price with the consumer just like you say profit is all the corporations care about. But the problem is that people buy Toyotas which aren't the cheapest brand (like say a Hyundai is) so maybe the cheapest isn't 100% what the consumer cares about and maybe since corporations have workers that are human and want things done for their communities they get their company to do things monetarily even if it isn't a 1 for 1 dollar return (a greener factory as an example).


Again, if GM cared nothing for this country they could have 1) declared bankruptcy and 2) changed their incorporation to the Bahamas to pay less taxes. They (the execs) live in America, do you think they want it destroyed? So you are basically saying you and everything your company does is 100% for profit? Not a single thing that isn't for money? I feel sorry for you.




"Name one thing that GM spent billions on that did not make them a profit?"

LMAO. How about: 1)Saturn Corporation. 2)EV-1. 3)Hydrogen fuel development. 4)Oldsmobile buyout . 5)Worker's healthcare (that is excessive because of history which you obviously have no clue about but the healthcare deal former employees have that retired is above and beyond the call of duty but GM was profitable and shared the wealth)

Saturn has not made profit for GM and they have spent at least a Billion to date. EV-1 lost a ton of the Billion spent (and yes, the Toyota EV was cancelled and the Honda EV was cancelled too) Hydrogen fuel may make GM a profit but that is far down the road and could never pan out. With the franchise laws GM had to pay a Billion to the Oldsmobile dealers to get rid of that division.



"You claim that trucks being made in America is just PR so people buying foriegn feel good about it. "

No, I stated that the trucks have a tarrif of 25% and that is why they are made here. Cars are made here mostly because of PR; otherwise, why would we have so many commercials about how Toyota makes so much here? Why not just do it and not talk about it?



"Your paragraph about the US Auto Industry being here because of US Auto Companies is written quite terribly and I'm trying to decipher. It sounds like you're saying "Toyota only buys parts from America because American companies are here to supply them. You bet if American companies disapeered, Toyota would buy elsewhere!" But then again, that's like saying "I buy my socks from WalMart, but you bet if WalMart closed, I'd buy them from Target!""

If GM and Ford (those American companies weren't here not the American suppliers) then Toyota would not make vehicles here. Period. What possible reason would they have? That is a fact which was verified when Toyota's internal memoy was leaked that they pay so much to American workers because that is the going rate in America for the jobs. It is such a high going rate because we had an industry already. If we were say a country like Nigeria that didn't have a car industry history you could probably go in there and pay workers the lowest rates in the world. It is because of GM and Ford that Toyota workers (in America) get paid so much. Period. It is a fact.




"You made not a single point on how GM is "giving" away it's money to better the American people."

Yes, I wrote terribly in a hurry. But it is "its" not "it's". "it's" means "it is" and not the possessive. But who really cares about that stupid stuff ultimately?



"You have shown how GM is just like Toyota, doing whatever it takes to drive a profit, whether it be spending extra to make trucks in America, supporting American labor, or researching alternative energy. All of these are PR moves that in turn, build company image and drive profits. It's all about profits for any company. GM and Ford are not saints."

Right, of course they aren't saints but they are far from the devil like way too many people would like to believe or pretend to believe. And more importantly, Toyota and Honda and the rest aren't our saints and saviors.



"They are American corporation who would lower every single one of their workers wages tomorrow without a second hesitation if they could get away with it."

They could get away with it. They could declare bankruptcy and be done with 90% of U.S. workers and have cheap foreign wokers do those jobs. But they haven't done this. Again, this isn't some hypothetical "they could" when in reality they are making $12Billion a year. This is a real "they could" because they are over $300 Billion in debt.



"Think about it: Why the fuck do unions exist if corporations aren't manipulative, greedy, exploitative entities?"

Think about it? So does every company that doesn't have a union shadowing it mean it is a great company? Maybe because back in the day (like depression days and prior) workers were not given much for their hard work. Maybe they needed them then. You just stated that GM and Toyota are alike. Toyota doesn't have unions here (except one factory 50% owned by GM). So they should have the union to keep them (Toyota in line) like GM has a union, right? Terrible logic on your part.



"There should be no love for either company. Buy whatever car you want from whichever company you want, but do not defend one or the other company."

Yup, exactly what I thought. You are another one of those, "they are all the same" guys. Whatever. History tells us otherwise. But whatever. You'll never learn until America suffers a great depression and then you won't put two and two together. Yes, artifically housing market with home equity loans has kept America going even though manufacturing is going. Name a country with a super economy and no manufacturing.




"Both only want your money, and will do whatever it takes to take that from you. Neither cares about America outside of the fact that it's their biggest market and biggest moneymaker. Period."

If you say so. If the unemployment rate in America spiked, I mean really spiked, who would worry more (even if just because they worried about crime around them), the CEO for GM or the CEO for Toyota who lives in Japan?

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Isn’t it amazing how being bias and prejudiced eliminates any objective, fair, and thoughtful analysis?

Bigots and hypocrites aren't out to be intelligent nor be objective. It's the blinders in a tunnel syndrome.

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