In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor James Riswick and News Editor Joel Stocksdale. It's a big week for interesting car reviews, as we discuss driving the Mazda CX-50, GMC Hummer EV, Porsche Macan T and Toyota GR86 (formerly known as GR 86, with a space). They also discuss the newly unveiled 2023 Toyota GR Corolla and 2023 Honda HR-V, as well as Elon Musk becoming Twitter's biggest shareholder.
Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.
Transcript[MUSIC PLAYING]
GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to "The Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. We have a great show for you this week, lots of stuff to get to. Before I even preview anything, let's bring in West Coast editor James Riswick, our senior editor of the West Coast and features and reviews. What's going on, man?
JAMES RISWICK: Oh, just a couple of weeks, just cram-packed full of new cars and new to drive, and also just to see for the first time, and also doing donuts for the first time in a live studio-- that was the GR Corolla. So it's been busy time. And if I get a couple of things mixed up, I apologize. There's just a lot happening in the car world right now.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's a big show. This could also, perhaps, be an audio version of a page of maybe James' memoirs, because a lot of it is his travels. But a big part of this is also the GMC Hummer, which News Editor Joel Stocksdale drove in, I want to say, Arizona. What's going on, man?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Hey, not too much been. Been kind of a busy time on my end too.
GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good. All right, give you a quick rundown and then we'll jump right in. Mazda CX-50, GMC Hummer, Porsche Macan T, and the Toyota GR-86. So lots to cover in the news. GR Corolla was revealed. Joel wrote it, James was there.
Honda HR-V revealed. It was kind of interesting looking change, we'll say, for the HR-V. And we'll talk about Elon Musk. Please send us your Spend My Moneys. That's podcast@Autoblog.com. If you want to jump in, sometimes we'll do a mailbag-- same email, get it out there.
If you like the show, please give us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're basically everywhere. The CX-50 was in California, however. And this is a pretty significant launch for Mazda. I have not driven it, obviously, but it looks very Mazda-y, seems to be straight out of central casting as far as the design.
And everything I've read about it makes it sound like this is definitely a crossover that enthusiasts might be into. But what is your take, James?
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah, it really does look good. They just can't help themselves. Like, they're trying to make it-- it's marketed as the more rugged Mazda, and maybe it is. But really, they can't help themselves from making a very kind of sleek, long-nose, attractive SUV. And you know, it is considered a compact SUV, but it is just on the very tippy top end of that spectrum.
It's not quite a midsize, but it's really close. It's almost similar to, like, a Chevy Blazer, which is longer but, in general, kind of that vibe where bigger on the outside than a compact, but not really that much bigger inside. In fact, the CX-5 is just a little bit bigger in a few dimensions. But it is bigger.
It is 6.7 inches longer than a CX-5. It's three inches wider. And it's an inch higher off the ground. Those things do tend to make something look better, which I think this absolutely does. The CX-5 can look a little skinny, and this doesn't. Also, you can really tell when you're behind the wheel-- I had recently driven the revised CX-5, which feels like a more refined CRV, RAV4 kind of thing.
This does feel elevated beyond that. It feels more substantial. It does feel a little more refined-- even though it has the exact same engines available to it. But just in terms of the way it drives down the road, it does feel a little more midsizey.
And yeah, so I think that is done, in part, because this was supposed to be the more American-centric small SUV. You know, the CX-5 is a global product and the CX-50 is designed for and, in fact, built in America for the North American market. Now, part of-- and it really speaks to the way this car ended up-- there's a lot of stuff about being more rugged.
And it is, but this is not a forest or wilderness. It's just more appropriate for the American market without being kind of, like, cynically, like, enormous and, like, with chintzy materials to bring down, like Volkswagen tried to do. No, I think this is a very smart way to go about it. In terms of the actual off-roadiness of it, it does have over eight inches of ground clearance.
And you know, I took it off road, but it was a very appropriate dirt path with some loose surfaces and some hills. And there's a new off-road mode that changes various things in the car to handle better and just maintain control off-road-- no rock-crawling modes or anything because no one's really expecting that. Really, it's designed for people who, you know, the last little bit of their journey is going to be off-road to a campsite, to a hiking spot, to somewhere to take a fun Instagram picture just to get you there.
And the rest of your journey is going to be on the highway. And on that journey, you're going to be pretty darn comfortable and even amused at times. So that's both what they were intending and actually what they succeeded at. I liked it a lot.
It also has a very nice interior. Now, I only had the range-topping version with the fancy criss-cross stitching on the dash and the doors. But having been in other Mazdaa, it should still be very, very nice than all the other trim levels-- it maintains that nice minimalist look of other Mazdas with a few more vertical, chunkier elements to impart that slightly more rugged vibe like the exterior. But without being totally minimalist, there's still nice, pleasingly clicky buttons to press and knobs to turn.
And to that end, there's also another key new feature for the CX-50 for Mazda that I would be shocked if it doesn't get to all the other 23 Mazdas is that the main infotainment system, which with this most recent version has not been touch operated at all, gains touch screen functionality only for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.
So for everything else, for the Mazda system, you keep using the MMI slash iDrive-like knob-- works very well, keep your eyes on the road. I kind of like knob and display systems. But for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, you can now both use the knob and use the touch screen.
Is the touch screen really far away? Yeah, kind of. And it's still a bit of a workaround. But I think it's in a good place. Some people might not like it. So that's a pretty big advancement for Mazda at this point.
GREG MIGLIORE: What kind of strikes me is that one CX-50 and then you have, like, the CX-5-- seems a little confusing, even though when you look at them completely different vehicles-- and not missions, because I think in real life, the same type of person or family might be interested in either one of these, but it is a little bit of kind of new ground for Mazda. I mean, when's the last really, like, off-roady Mazda type theme that they have ever done? So I think it's kind of neat.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. So, actually, I forgot to mention that. So going back to the Forester Wilderness-- so when that came out, I was on the press launch and they shared market research that indicated that compact SUVs that were popular with people who go camping, with people who go hiking, who use their vehicle to do outdoorsy things and carry stuff-- OK, there's the data.
And at the top of all those lists was either the Forester or the Grand Cherokee. But just behind them and well above average was the Mazda CX-5. Hmm. That was interesting, I thought, because this is Mazda. It's sporty. It goes on mountain roads.
And you know, it kind of seems like something more suited to people who live in the cities and not going to get their car dirty. And so I wondered, huh, Mazda could probably pivot into a more rugged, outdoorsy model of the CX-5. Two weeks later, the CX-50 was introduced.
I asked Mazda about this. And their product planners, they had not seen such data. They were just kind of anecdotally going about the fact that they could produce a car that was a little more American-centric. And you know, they speak to more people do go outside, so we want to facilitate this. And there's great benefits for being outdoors, yada yada yada-- it's kind of like the marketing.
It was more like we've invented-- they were going about it, we came up with this car, and here's what it's good for as opposed to the reverse of that-- a reason for it to exist and then coming up with the vehicle. But nevertheless, it's the right product at the right time for them.
And they've managed to make something more rugged sure, for lack of a better term, without completely losing the plot of who they are, what their car should look like, what their car should drive like. So in that, it's a job well done. To the name thing, I totally agree.
Like, the CX-30 exists because there's a CX-4 in China. Well, that's nice. Who cares? Like, we don't get that. Like, why can't different cars-- the Volkswagen Jetta was called the Volkswagen Bora in Europe for, like, concurrently-- did the world fall apart? No. They all have different marketing teams anyway.
So yeah, I don't know why they're so obsessed with-- call it the Tribute. Who cares? Why they're so emboldened to stay in this every car must have the same name, whether it's sold in Beijing or Boston. But that's an aside.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I mean, at least on the name front, it does seem the Mazda is kind of moving into that double-digit area across the board, because, like you said, there is CX-30, there's now CX-60 coming out in Europe, which is the version with the longitudinal powertrain layout.
JAMES RISWICK: There's going to be so many of them.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. Not saying that it's not confusing, to an extent. But that does seem to be where they're heading.
GREG MIGLIORE: Very good. I'm really intrigued by this model. Every time or any time an automaker does something where it's almost like a misdirection, a new direction, and they sort of change a little bit about who they are, what they've always done, I find that to be one of the more intriguing press cars.
Like, you know, obviously, driving the high powered ones, the crazy off-road ones, which I'm going to talk about that in one second here-- those are always what get your attention. But sometimes when you've been doing it for awhile, you like to pick up on the nuance and say, oh, Mazda's going off-road, and kind of take it from there.
So I'm very excited about getting into this hopefully pretty soon. Hopefully it gets in the fleets pretty soon.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. Honestly, don't expect too much of a departure. They really did try to make it feel like-- as much as like-- I think we were kind of thinking it's more of a departure than even they did. It's just a slight pivot. That's the thing. It's just like, we're kind of addressing this thing that maybe we have a blind spot to, but it's not, like, that big of a change. I wouldn't be surprised if this sells better than the CX-5.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I would agree with you just looking at it-- I mean, this is what people want, that sort of, like, suburban off-road vehicle. You know?
JAMES RISWICK: Mmhmm. It looks better. You know, it has the same-- like, if you look at the interior space, the engine specs, they're the same. So the CX-5 is cheaper, but not by much. Yeah, I could easily see this becoming the-- I mean, the fact that they're so close is a little puzzling, you know? Because this is-- and it's like, yeah, one's more capable. But we're not talking, like, Forest or Wilderness here or, like, trailhawk.
So it's like-- it does muddy the waters a bit. But you know, if people are choosing between one or the other, I'm not sure Mazda really cares, right?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JAMES RISWICK: People are buying a Mazda.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, no, I think that's--
JAMES RISWICK: We have more cars to talk about. So yay.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's kind of a win-win for all of us here, actually. So.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Now let's talk about a really big departure, as in departure off-road, departure for something that we literally almost never could have conceived would come back has come back, and that is the Hummer brand. Joel, you got to drive this in I think I said Arizona off the top-- that's right. And you know, I actually did drive this in the fall, but I really want to hear what you think because you probably spent more time with it.
What do you think? What was it like? You're a little bit younger than me, so, like, you probably-- you don't maybe necessarily-- like, I lived through the drama of the Hummer with, like, the fuel prices, the protests, then when they tried to close it and sell it. I mean, it was a very dramatic like 10 years for Hummer from, like, 2000 until it sort of met its demise. I don't know, maybe you were reading it at that time, I don't know. But you know, what did you think of this thing?
JAMES RISWICK: This beast.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. I mean, I remember all that. Obviously, I wasn't driving at the moment. But I was definitely keeping track of it, reading the magazines and things about it. And the GMC Hummer EV is a wild and crazy super truck, which, like, super truck is something that they have been using in their materials and it lives up to that name.
We know most of the stats, like it makes 1,000 horsepower. And it's got 1,200 pound feet of torque. It gets to 60 miles an hour in three seconds. It's got a whole bunch of ground clearance and can ford water. And it's a vehicle with superfluous statistics. And it totally lives up to a whole lot of it.
Like, driving in Arizona, we had the opportunity to drive both on the pavement and on a mix of dirt roads from kind of, like, washboard gravel to sort of trickier dirt obstacles and things. And, like, acceleration is really, really amusing. Like, a lot of electric vehicles, it'll pin you in the seat. But the whole thing just squats in the back really dramatically.
And off-road, it's really, really impressive. In fact, one of the things that really impressed me was how pinpoint precise you can be with applying throttle and just inching it over obstacles and, like, you have a lot of control. And it's really easy to just barely get it up and over obstacles without it getting kind of loose and kind of out of control.
All that torque is fantastic for crawling around. It has a mechanical front locking differential since it's got a single motor up front. And because it's got two motors in the back instead of a mechanical locker, it can just kind of electronically tell both motors to spin at the same rate. But really, we didn't even-- we didn't really even run into a situation where we needed to use that.
It just had so much torque, and with the addition one, that was what we were driving, it comes with 35-inch mud terrain tires that had loads of grip. So it really just crawled right up and over everything that we threw at it. It's actually fairly comfortable off-road, which you would kind of hope so considering how much tire there was and the fact that it's got an adaptive air suspension.
The four-wheel steering is much appreciated on off-road trails, because it's a big, big truck. And while it can't cover up the width of the vehicle, it definitely lets it get around, like, tight u-turns, and obstacles, and things much more easily. Crab walk is cool. I think it's maybe a little bit more gimmick than it is useful.
Supposedly on one of the waves the journalists came through, they said that they did run into a situation where they got a vehicle kind of stuck and crab walk came in handy. But I'm still kind of skeptical at the actual usefulness of it. It's still a fun party trick. So basically, like, all of the performance stuff, it absolutely lives up to. And it is an outrageous machine.
There are some drawbacks, though, which are a little bit disappointing considering that it is a six-figure vehicle. On pavement, the biggest thing that frustrated me was that, despite being an electric car, it is actually kind of noisy. Those mud terrain tires are really loud on the highway.
And on top of that, there's a lot of wind noise. And, like, the tires are something that you could change or you could just order one of the slightly lower trims that doesn't have mud terrains. But the wind noise is going to be something that you can't really avoid. And this was on a version that didn't have the roof bars or anything like that. And so, like, on a highway drive, that could get old kind of fast.
And considering that it has more than 300 miles of range and it can do fast charging, I mean, it's entirely within the scope of driving this on the highway for long periods of time. Also, it is a 9,000-pound vehicle. And you can feel that when you're on-road.
I noticed that unless you-- if you don't have it in one of, like, the one-pedal modes where it's got really strong regenerative braking, you've really got to press that brake pedal to start getting it slowed down. It definitely does. I mean, it's not a braking performance thing. But, like, you can notice that you're maybe pushing a little harder than you'd expect. And going around corners and stuff, you can just feel that there's a lot of vehicle that's trying to get around corners and such.
And even though it is very fast, with something that makes 1,000-- I mean, 1,000 horsepower is the same kind of power that you can get in, like, a Bugatti Veyron. And so, yeah--
JAMES RISWICK: It weighs 9,000-plus pounds.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah.
JAMES RISWICK: The Veyron does not.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. But it's one of those things where, like, when you've got that much power-- when you've got that much weight, it does blunt that kind of power. Even though it's still-- it's still significant and it feels it, you sometimes kind of feel like, boy, if it just wasn't this heavy, it'd feel even more impressive.
And there's a fair bit of body roll too. So it's one of those things where it's totally a super truck. It goes out and does everything that you expect of it, but it does have some drawbacks like you might expect from, like, say, a super car that there are some trade-offs to get to that kind of performance. You need a gigantic battery for that kind of range and power. You need a lot of suspension, and tire, and things to be able to do everything that it does off-road.
Oh, and also, kind of another drawback-- the interior is very much designed for the off-road lifestyle. So it's a lot of kind of plastics, and faux leathers, and things that are easy to clean, which are understandable. And they do a good job with those materials. Like, it's all put together nicely. It's got lots of nice little touches, like little rivets and detailing on the border around the screen.
But for a six-figure car, they're all materials that would feel more at home in something that costs about half as much. But even so, like, as long as you're aware of all of that, I still don't think that the price is ridiculous just because you are getting an incredible amount of performance and capability. And you're also getting something that looks really cool.
GREG MIGLIORE: I definitely think there's a prestige element to this. It reminds me a bit of almost like an American G-Class. If you want a brutish SUV, I mean, this could be it. You know, is it going to be the easiest thing to drive? No. Is it going to fit in your garage? Maybe. Is it expensive? Of course.
When I drove it, I actually found it had a certain charm, which might be kind of an odd way to describe something that's just such a brute. But I mean, like, the removable sky panels, that's cool. It creates almost kind of like a Baja kind of vibe when you do it.
I like the interior, but I agree with you on its shortcomings. You probably have a better take on it because I did drive a pre-pro. So but it still looked pretty good, to be honest. But I agree with you for that kind of a price, you know, maybe a little more of a luxurious kind of-- like, some of the details, I could see that.
But again, maybe they'll sort some of that as the thing gets through into production. But aesthetically, I thought it looked pretty good inside and out. To me, I'm just more and more intrigued by this, like, really upper echelon of, like, just the super truck wars.
I mean, if you want to drop anywhere from, like, $50 to $100 grand on a powerful electric truck, I mean, take your pick, man, and just wait for when it's going to be available. Because there's a lot of different options right now. And I definitely think for me, the cool factor is there for the, like, the GMC Hummer truck.
I'm assuming you didn't get to drive the SUV. I don't think that's even in production yet. But you know, it's definitely an image play for them. And it does allow them to kind of get this, like, the Hummer brand back out there, which is, again, sub-brand, I guess. To me, that's, like I said, kind of surreal.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And don't get me wrong, I highlighted a lot of drawbacks, but for the most part, I did actually enjoy driving this thing, because it does look really neat. It's really entertaining when you accelerate with it. It's fantastic off-road. And actually, although the interior materials are a little bit disappointing, I mean, it does look nice, it's put together well. The infotainment is actually fantastic.
GREG MIGLIORE: Agreed.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: It's super responsive, has fantastic graphics, it's got really easy to access icons and things. And you can customize it to get to your most preferred menus and such. And the interior is also enormous. There's so much space. You can really just kind of spread out, get comfortable, and relax.
And, like, it does have super cruise, which works extremely well. It's got the updated version of super cruise with the automated lane changes, which are pretty wild to have it automatically detect, oh, the car in front of me is going slower than I want to go, I'm going to go ahead and look for a place to merge, and do that, and signal, merge, pass, and move back over.
It's pretty wild to experience it do all that on its own. Yeah, so it's one of those things where, like, I think the Hummer is really cool. It's got some things to be aware of if you are considering to buy one. But I think it is probably worth it. And I mean, of all the super trucks out there right now, like, I would-- and if I had the money-- I would happily pick one of these up over, like, a TRX.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think it definitely has a lot of cachet. And it has the sort of novelty of having a little bit of history, but also being, like, this new thing. So you know, they had a Super Bowl ad.
Any time GM decides to really put some money into marketing, you're going to know about that vehicle no matter where you are. Like, they will find you-- the long arm of GM advertising can really get out there. So I think this truck is going to do what it needs to do for the company and to be a success.
And it'll be interesting to see how they continue to evolve it. So let's do a really hard shift over to the Porsche Macan T. There is literally no comparison. I can't make any comparison between the Hummer and the Macan T. So, James, you drove it. We'll just push it right over to you there.
JAMES RISWICK: Sure. Yeah, I drove it very conveniently on the doorstep of a really fantastic Southern California mountain road.
GREG MIGLIORE: Nice.
JAMES RISWICK: So I was able to run up and down very quickly before the skies completely opened up and my day was kind of over. Because when it rains in California, it rains, as opposed to a nice little mist like we get here in Portland. So the Porsche Macan T, like other Porsche T models, takes the base engine and then applies a nice connoisseur's, a chef's collection, chef choice of performance upgrades available and upper trim levels.
So effectively, you get some bits and pieces from, say, a GTS onto the T with the base motor. Now, the base motor is interesting because I don't think any of us have ever driven a base Macan, the two-liter turbo, effectively Audi engine. I haven't, and I don't know anybody who has.
Even Porsche was like, yeah, we didn't really give that out to people-- which kind of had this impression where, like, will it just drive like an Audi Q5? Well, I can't answer that, because I still haven't driven that base model. But I have driven the T now. And I will say that in terms of the power that it provides, which is 261 horsepower, 295 pound feet of torque, making it kind of-- that's nothing to sneeze at. It's fine for the segment-- 0 to 60 in 5.8 seconds, but that's the same as what it would be in other base models for the T.
It gets no upgrades whatsoever. It does not really sound like anything, which is significant, because this is an inline four. This is the Volkswagen group engine. This is not a Porsche Boxster, so this is not what's in the 718 two-liter turbo. So it has really no character to speak of. And they've kind of-- it seems like they've gone out of their way to make it quiet so that you don't really notice it, which I guess nothing is better than bad.
And honestly, I could use the very expensive sport exhaust that did not come on my car, which is like $3,000. But this thing had $22,000 options on it. So I would have happily removed the carbon stuff inside to go towards the sport exhaust function-- or the sport exhaust cost. But what does the T give you? OK, so primarily what it gives you is the adaptive dampers-- the passive adaptive damper system that would normally be standard on the Macan S and optional on the T.
You also get the sport chrono package, which gives you a sport plus mode-- very important, launch control not as important. Dashtop clock, even less important, and a steering wheel equipped with a mode dial switch and a little sport button-- sport response push to pass button, which is kind of neat. And then the all-wheel drive and the traction control system have been changed for a greater rear biased power distribution than what you would normally get in the four-cylinder.
Porsche's rep did not know, and we're waiting to hear from Germany when I talk to them about how that compares to the V6 power distribution. So that's kind of unknown. But it's more than the base four-cylinder which, again, I haven't driven. But then there is some key optional enhancements.
And they're very key because one is an adaptive air suspension, which has been tuned specifically for the T in a way that is supposed to very mimic the GTS-- so basically, it has been changed so that their responses are similar to what the GTS is. And the GTS is kind of the purest flavor of any Porsche, really.
It's not the most powerful, but it has, like, a lot of the best chassis-tuning elements to it. So that's the air suspension. It's a 10mm ride drop. It also has the torque vectoring plus, which is a brake-based quote, "torque vectoring system," helps the rear end coming around. So with that and that rear biased all-wheel drive system, it feels more like a rear-wheel drive vehicle as opposed to an all-wheel drive one. I can attest that's absolutely what it feels like.
The air suspension is fantastic. The fact that these things are optional on this car, it doesn't really make sense to me-- just make them standard, make it a little more expensive, whatever. It's kind of the way it should be set up to fully appreciate the Macan at its most Porsche-ness, even though you don't have a Porsche engine to speak of. I very much enjoy driving this car. You sit in it, it feels very taut. You feel a part of the vehicle.
But it's not going to beat you up because it's, like, a sport model. Unlike the BMW X3M competition, which is currently parked outside my house and will remain parked most of the time, because it absolutely beats you up most of the time. The ride on that vehicle is appalling. And even though it's way quicker than the T, the Macan T, I don't care. I would rather drive the Porsche to any day of the week.
So you know, oddly, the fact that this Macan cost quite a lot of money-- they hadn't finalized pricing, but low $60,000 range with $22,000 worth of option puts you in the mid-$80,000 range. And you don't need to spend that much, because a lot of those options were a bit silly. But I would absolutely pick that over one of these competition things, which are more powerful but worse.
The other thing is the Macan-- here's an interesting bit of thing-- because I had my family with me, I discovered that the Macan is more family friendly than you might imagine. I put the giant rear-facing child seat in it and there was actually a fair bit of room up front remaining.
The BMW X3, not so much, which is supposedly a bigger vehicle. So that was good to know. The Macan, even though it's pretty small for the segment, still it can be a perfectly family-friendly Porsche. So that's the Macan T.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think you kind of lay out a compelling case for why you might want to go with the Porsche over the BMW, just because, hey, from a daily driving engaging as an enthusiast sort of dynamic, you're going to get that in the Porsche. I mean, BMW M, whether they're cars, whether they're crossovers-- and same with a lot of the Mercedes, like the AMG SUVs, I'm thinking specifically-- have this kind of like just raw force. And they're not as enjoyable as something with less power. And it's, like, a simpler, purer experience.
JAMES RISWICK: Well, like, who is this car-- like this X3M, who's this for? Like, I don't know. Like, it's like, yeah, it's fast. But, like, who wants to live with this terrible suspension every day, which is not the way old BMWs were like, by the way. I've driven, like, a 2003 M3. It didn't ride like that.
And it's just so frenetic and nervous. Again, the older ones weren't like that. And meanwhile, like, who's the guy driving their X3 to a track to fully take advantage? Like, what? Like, if you have enough money for this, buy an actual track car and by something that you're not going to, like-- it's not going to drive you nuts driving to work every day.
I do not get this thing at all. Macan T, great. Because, yeah, it has the kind of meh engine, but it's sufficient in terms of power and it gets decent enough fuel economy, which is it gets better fuel economy than the V6, which is good. That's a good thing. But you get to still enjoy all of the chassis and handling enhancing elements. It's a smart extension for the brand.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Something that I am kind of fascinated by is that you're mentioning that the Macan T that you drove had, like, $20,000 in options. And, granted, manufacture-specified press cars don't always reflect, like, what people are actually going to buy. But that just strikes me as an especially strange decision considering the Macan T is, like, a way for you to get a taste of, like, a Macan S or Macan GTS without spending all the money for, like, those higher spec, higher horsepower versions. And so it just seemed-- I just wonder, like, who would be buying a Macan T and then decking it out with, like, every option imaginable to the point where they would be able to buy a GTS?
JAMES RISWICK: You are not wrong. And I would say if you ask Porsche of North America that, they would agree. However, I was driving a European market car and the Germans have whatever they think is different than what we slash North America thinks, and we end up with different cars. So there was, like, Porsche exclusive manufacturer options on this thing. And so I think they think we're going to showcase everything that we could possibly accomplish, and don't worry too much about what this specific car costs.
Because a lot of that stuff was, like, carbon fiber on the dash, and an Alcantara wheel, and stuff that, like, really-- yeah, if it's-- like, let's say this car costs $86,000. I don't know the exact pricing, but I'll just say it does-- like, whatever. Like, if it was $86 or $73, those little extra flimsy bits aren't going to, like, really impact what I think about it anyway. So I guess that's their idea. But you do end up with really expensive vehicle that you're right, it's a T. Like, why didn't you just get the Macan S? But you're not wrong.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Well, that's the Porsche Macan T. We're going to go into a bit of a Toyota heavy segment here. We'll do the GR-86 first because we drove that, and then get into the GR Corolla. I kind of like this GR designation that they're using more liberally across their range.
If it's sporty, they're like, hey, let's throw that on there. I spent some time in the 86 last weekend. It is definitely a sports car in the truest sense, as in when you drive it, it's a little bit of a workout. And I don't mean that in a cliched sense. I mean, like, there's certain activities you do because they are vigorous. And driving this car is one of them. You know, it's-- I don't know, cross-country skiing or something.
You know, they upgraded it for just the sort of new-- I don't know if you call it generation, but the new model. The big thing is the engine is reworked. Some very slight visual tweaks, but, I mean, it's-- other than the fact that at the curb it looks a little fresher, you're not going to see a ton of the different, like, facelifts, if you will-- still a good-looking car. Mine was bright red.
It was definitely the kind of car that was very easy to attract the attention of the police or something. And so had to be very mindful of my speeds in it. But if you've driven the 86 or the Subaru BRZ, this is what you would expect. You're, like, an inch off the ground, basically. The steering is heavy but communicative.
Like, everything you're doing, you're feeling as you turn the car, which is great. Six-speed manual, which mine blessedly was equipped with. I've actually driven these cars with automatics, and they're fine, surprisingly. Because it's OK. You still get a lot of the other engaging elements. But the six-speed is, to me, what you want with this car-- really lets you almost play with it. You can really, like I said, have some fun.
It's the kind of car that you say, hey, do you want to get delivery or go get pizza on the other side of town? And that's exactly what I did with this-- you know, the pizza barely fit in there because it's a little bit of a tight cabin. I did consider throwing car seats in the back. But it's just-- it was pretty tight.
And I thought the amount of effort I was going to try to get from getting it from one car to another, you know, we're not going to go down that road-- although there are latches back there if you want to spend a while trying to get your car seat back there. It's certainly doable. I don't know how doable it is, but it's possible. Let's put it that way.
So yeah, it's a pretty small market. It's a niche, let's put it that way. But it's definitely-- I'm glad cars like this are still out there, let me put it that way. You know, I think they held true to everything they try to achieve with the 86.
It's their sports car right now. And I'm glad Toyota continues to invest in the segment. I think this is where you see, like, Akio Toyotas sort of, like, ideas and visions for the company. Like, he wants his company to make some sports cars so we still get things like this. I mean, quite simply, it's a lot of fun to drive.
It's a little bit fresher than the last model was. Again, this is updated for the 2022 model year. Again, if you put the cars side by side, you might notice some differences. But it's pretty subtle. Drives-- you know, they say it drives slightly better-- and, again, the big changes were some upgrades to the engines. But I mean, if you could get a good deal on a '21, you know, that's probably not a bad move. But the new one is certainly as good and a touch better than before. So it's a fun car.
JAMES RISWICK: Is it quieter? Is it quieter? Because that was a big problem with the old one.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. That's a great question. It's not that much quieter.
JAMES RISWICK: Doh.
GREG MIGLIORE: The last time I drove an '86 was two years ago, and I drove it in a rainstorm. So that was pretty loud. And this car's still pretty loud.
JAMES RISWICK: I think it was a BRZ, but who cares, it doesn't matter-- I drove on I-5 in the Central Valley of California, which is a concrete highway. And oh my god, it was so loud. I did what I do in my Z3, which is I drove at, like, 65 to 70 just to make it less loud and terrible journey. But I would happily gain some pounds of sound deadening in that car.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's one of those cars too where a lot of times the engine is very happy with the revs all the way up, which does not help the noise. Let's put it that way. You're just increasing your soundtrack even more.
JAMES RISWICK: There's so much-- there's so much road noise, I don't even get-- like, the engine doesn't even come into play-- although it's not the most sonorous engine.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, it's--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
JAMES RISWICK: Maybe it's better. I don't know.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think it's better, but I think it's still a raspy four-cylinder. Let's put it that way.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: But even though it's kind of loud and noisy, the big thing, as you just alluded to, is that it does have a new engine. And while I haven't driven one yet, I really want to. It sounds like, basically, the one thing that really drove me crazy about the old car has been fixed. And that's that not only does it have more power, but the torque curve is now nice and smooth.
And there's not that spot in the middle of the rev band where it just kind of falls flat on its face for a little while. That drove me crazy about the old car, because it was kind of right in the spot where you would probably Be driving at the most.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And it just really sucked a lot of the fun out of it. Either it was fine if you were being super careful and considerate with your driving and just wanted to, like, maximize economy and commute around town, or if you were thrashing it and there was no, like, in between that was comfortable. But that seems to-- as far as I can tell, that's been fixed. I don't know what your experience was, Greg.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. That's a fair assessment. And thanks for bringing it up. I would have skated right over that. The whole power train experience-- you do get, I believe, 20% more power if I'm doing my math right. So there's a little bit of a gain. But also, as you guys know, sometimes it's hard to tell.
300 horsepower, 280, whatever car you're talking about-- you don't necessarily know that. But it's how it's delivered. And in this case, you know, now that you have 228 horsepower and 184 pound feet, to be precise for this car, I think the delivery is a little bit better. And I think what I would spend a lot of time doing is in, like, second or third gear, just seeing, like, how things would kind of ring out.
Woodward Avenue is actually a pretty good place to do that-- Telegraph, sort of like roads around here that aren't really highways or expressways, as you call them different parts of the country. But they're roads you can go 45, 50 and kind of take off with some energy and see how it goes. So I think they've done a good job on that front.
I think one of the biggest challenges with this car is for the people who don't just want it for the chassis or for, like, the pure dynamics, is you do kind of come back to the engine and you say, is this what I want? Or do I want to spend my $26 to $35,000, however you spec it out, on something else-- like a Mustang or the new Nissan Z car. There's a lot of different options if you want something sporty.
And I think by the end of that, like, sort of generation, the engine had become a bit of a drawback. I mean, now I think, like I said earlier, if you wanted to get a used car, even a recently-- like, a late model BRZ or 86, I wouldn't tell you no. But it's a little easier to make that compromise with a used car, whereas you want to get something new that's a little bit smoother, Toyota has something for you.
Yeah. I mean, I'll go with, like, the automotive journalistic cliche that if you ever needed to buy a car, I know a lot of writers and editors that say, this or the BRZ is what they would do. Granted, car-buying opinions are always all over the pallet. So it's hard to really pigeonhole people. But this is a car that I think gets in that conversation because it is so dynamic and manual.
It's almost like-- it's old school in that sense. So. Yeah, I mean, I liked it. I think it lived up to what-- you know, I don't think this is overly hyped, but it lived up to what it should be.
JAMES RISWICK: I'm looking forward to getting it. I'm going to be having the BRZ and the 86 at the turn of the month. And I'm going to have them back-- I'm currently scheduled to have them on sharing one day together. So I will have the option to determine how they are different.
So and I'll have a really neat view out in front of my house with two of virtually the same cars. So I'm looking forward to that day.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, and this kind of brings me to what I think may potentially be a good segue way for our next segment.
GREG MIGLIORE: Please do.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: How strange it is to me that the two Toyota GR models that are on sale in the US are kind of not Toyotas, because the GR-86 is very much Subaru. I mean, it's got a flat four engine up front. And the GR Supra is very much a BMW with a turbo-- well, and even the turbo 4, because a BMW engine and a BMW transmission. And I found it very amusing that, like, the cars that supposedly represent the sportiest that Toyota has to offer are not even really Toyotas.
JAMES RISWICK: The ultimate thing-- the answer to that is if they weren't, they wouldn't exist at all.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah.
JAMES RISWICK: It's about money. So would you like these or would you like nothing? And the other thing is the Supra, it drives better than the BMW. The Toyota did a better-- if it's a BMW, then Toyota knows how to tune a car better than-- tune a BMW better than BMW does.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Which is not that surprising to me.
JAMES RISWICK: But to complete the segue, the GR Corolla, the third one, definitely is a Toyota.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: It's very Toyota.
JAMES RISWICK: [INAUDIBLE] goodness sake. You wrote about it, so you actually might be more familiar with the specs. But I saw it in-person and it was doing donuts, which is always interesting for a front-wheel drive based all-wheel drive car. But it can move that power round, including to a rear bias, which is pretty darn cool.
And it has three exhaust pipes at the back. And they're uniquely not all together, which is kind of weird. There's a big fat one in the middle and then two on the outboard. It's sort of like an airplane formation. It's a cool little thing.
It has those big fat fenders kind of like a V6 Renault. It's manual only. It has a handbrake. So yay. That's going to make for all those who get into a small fun car and immediately want to do a handbrake turn, speaking of a GR-86 or a Miata, you can do that in it. That's cool.
It has a three-cylinder turbo engine that produces 300 horsepower. So you're talking about 100 horsepower per cylinder. The cars that can also do that or like the 911 Turbo S, the Dodge Demon, the Bugatti Chiron, grand super fancy sport comes within just a couple of horsepower of doing it as well. And then you have a Corolla.
It's a cool car. It got a lot of attention, and deservedly so. And I'm a little fearful that it'll really, really beat you up with the suspension because of the current sport Corolla-- was it the Apex that you've driven, Joel?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yes, the Corolla Apex-- that was kind of a mess of a car.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. A little fearful of that.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I'm hoping that it will ride better just because this is a vehicle that has clearly seen a whole lot more engineering and development put into it, whereas I kind of feel like with the Corolla Apex, it was like quick, throw in some stiff shocks and springs and call it a day because we need to have some kind of sporty version out.
But yeah, I'm super super excited about the GR Corolla, because on top of all those specs, what's exciting about it is that all those mechanicals are what are basically in the GR Yaris, which is the crazy homologation special little three-door hatchback that everywhere else has gotten, but we haven't gotten, basically because we're not getting-- because we don't get any version of the Yaris anymore that Toyota makes.
And this was a very specially designed body that didn't even conform to the actual Yaris. So it would be absurd to try and make that legal for this one super limited production vehicle with not a whole lot of appeal to a lot of Americans. Certainly enthusiasts would be excited about it, but how many of them would actually buy it for what it would probably cost to try and bring that car here?
So it's basically the GR Yaris in a body that they can sell at a reasonable price here in the States. Plus, they gave us more power than the Yaris. The Yaris has somewhere around, like, 275 horsepower, whereas ours gets 300 horsepower.
It's going to be a more practical body, because it's four doors and it's a bigger vehicle. You do have a weight penalty, but it still weighs only about what a WRX weighs, and the WRX makes less power. It also weighs a few pounds less than the Golf R while making about the same kind of power.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. It's a really compelling-- it's a really compelling, you know, compact car. And compared to, like, a Golf R or a Civic Type R, which we know that will come with the new Civic-- I mean, an exciting time. And the thing I will say is, like, talking about the ride quality, it's not because, like, oh, I'm getting old and I have to drive a Lincoln now.
But, like, it's daily driver-- it speaks to daily drivability which is something that the Golf R and the Type R Civic, with its adaptive dampers, can do. So, like, and when you're spending like-- this will probably be in the upper-$30s. This is not like something, like, teenagers are going to be buying with regularity who just all really care about-- couldn't really care about ride quality or drivability at all.
People are going to be buying these, you know, for daily driving reasons. And I think that will matter. And that'll determine whether it really can be a viable alternative to a Golf R, or a Civic Type R, or whether it is just, like, kind of, like, an extreme enthusiast special. And I really hope it's not the latter.
Because although it'll determine how important it is, and how important performance oriented Toyotas can be in the future-- can they reclaim what they had in the way, way, way, way past? And I hope they do, because it's really cool. And even it looks good.
Like, the regular Corolla hatchback is a good looking car. The sedan looks like nothing because they were designed by different people. The Corolla hatch looks really good, and this enhances it without making it, like, gaudy and street racery like the Civic Type R.
Be excited. Like, if lots of people out in the world are excited about that, and everybody in attendance at the event-- all jaded automotive journalists alike were very excited about this. So it's a cool car.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And bringing up the concern about being, like, too hardcore and enthusiast focused, I understand that. And I feel, like, kind of a perfect example of something that was kind of a victim of that, I think, was the Ford Focus RS, because, sadly, I never got the opportunity to drive one.
But it definitely ticked all of the enthusiast boxes. It had 350 horsepower. It was all-wheel drive. It had a crazy drift mode. But from everything that I ever read about it said that it was really harsh and really hard to live with on a daily basis.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And that was-- and then kind of the flip side of that, I think the Civic Type R has done a really good job of being very much that enthusiast vehicle. But it's also actually really quite easy to live with. I've always been really impressed that the Type R actually, like, rides pretty well. And it's got fairly light and easy controls. Like, it's not something that's going to beat you up on a daily basis.
And of course, the Golf R does the same. I'm also a little bit worried about pricing on this. I think it's definitely got to stay under $40,000, because I don't know that long-term it could manage like a Golf R price tag. I think it's got to be kind of close to Civic Type R, which I think would also work pretty well in the overall GR lineup too, because you do have this kind of gap between the 86 and the Supra, because the Supra starts over $40,000, the 86 starts under $30,000. So there is kind of that spot in the middle where I think the GR Corolla could work.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. I would be shocked if it isn't, like, right on top of Type R. I would be stunned if they weren't similar.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, pricing is a really good point. And I think it's interesting some of the choices you have in the segment. Even a couple of years ago-- like, this isn't an area that I would have thought car companies would have said, hey, let's try to spend some money and try to connect with this audience. I think that's cool.
And anecdotally, like, I think all three of us were on Slack or you were in real life there, James, for this event. People were excited about it. It's been a while since we've had a reveal where people were, like, OK, it's 9:30 at night Eastern time. Let's look at Twitter, let's get on the site, let's log back on to work voluntarily, and let's talk about this thing.
So it seemed like-- you know, there's a vibe out there about this. And I think that's cool. So run a little long here on time, so I'll throw it over to you, Joel, about the new Honda HR-V. Again, not a car that we've particularly ever been all that enthralled with, but it's a new generation. You know, we have a first look at it. What do you think of it?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, I am disappointed in this new HR-V. And it's not just the styling. The styling is kind of one of the leading things about it-- and we were all talking about this on Slack, that it's got a very mean and slightly awkward-looking nose that's been tacked on to what's otherwise, like, the generic SUV.
Because, like, everything behind the front fenders, it could really be anything. And it's really unfortunate, because the European HR-V and Japanese Veh-zel-- or Vee-zel, I'm not entirely sure how they pronounce it-- is an extremely handsome looking little SUV. But yeah, the American one is, it's not great.
JAMES RISWICK: No.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And I'm also a little bit disappointed because this new one-- well, maybe disappointed isn't quite the right word for this. It's interesting-- this new HR-V is based on the Civic platform. Up until this point, the HR-V that we got in the US, and most other places, was based on the Honda Fit. And the European HR-V continues to be based on the Honda Fit.
And that did provide the HR-V with one of its most redeeming features-- that it had an enormous amount of space for how small it was. And it had the very versatile magic seat that could flip up and you could carry tall items kind of in that rear passenger area-- or you can fold it in different ways to accommodate all kinds of stuff-- just a really great piece of packaging.
So it'll be interesting to see what happens there now that it's Civic-based. It'll also be interesting to see exactly what size it is. Because, I mean, like, a Civic was significantly larger in most ways than the HR-V and the Fit. And, like, for so long, the CRV has been, like, the Civic-based SUV.
So it'll be interesting to see if this new HR-V is smaller than a CRV but still kind of Civic-sized, or if they'll try and, like, shrink the Civic platform to a smaller vehicle. I'd be a little bit concerned about that latter option, because I would be worried that it won't actually be as spacious and useful inside as if it had-- as if it had been based on a Fit.
I had also sort of hoped that the new HR-V would be the Fit-based one, because it's only available as a hybrid in most markets. And I think that would have been a very interesting addition to the subcompact car segment, because there aren't many hybrids in that area. And most of just the regular gas-powered stuff in that segment don't get fantastic fuel economy. So I felt like a hybrid could be a very interesting take on that segment that could be very attractive to a lot of people.
That's not to say that there's not going to be a hybrid. There may very well be one, especially now that the newest generation Civic will have a hybrid variant. And also, the Civic platform is a very good platform. So I'm hoping that it will drive at least pretty well.
But yeah, for the most part, I'm disappointed in the way it looks. And I'm disappointed that we're not going to get a shot at the clever space engineering of, like, a Fit-based vehicle.
JAMES RISWICK: The magic seat. Yeah, well, I mean, in terms of the platform, I mean, these things scale up and down pretty easily. Like, you know, that CX-50 is based on the CX-30 in the Mazda 3 platform. So you mean, and the end CX-5 is not. So, like, these things can all kind of scale.
I do wonder if they're kind of moving the HR-V more into that mid-compact segment with the CX-30 and, like, a Kia Seltos-- kind of seems that way. The thing that concerns me is, what the hell is going on with the styling? This thing-- the front end of this car looks like one of those like cars from the early-'70s that you go and, like, how did anyone think that looked good? And yet they sold 200,000 of them.
It is really unfortunate. It is also completely not in keeping with the rest of the Honda lineup. If you look at the Vezel, the HR-V sold in other markets, it looks like the same person who designed the Accord did it. And the Accord, not everybody loves it-- I think it's a very nicely clean, proportioned car.
This is out of left field. This is totally different. You're right, it's very generic at the back. It's lost that really clean, defined line down the sides that started with the Insight and carried on to the Accord. It makes me concerned for the future, because there's a new CRV, coming and a new Pilot coming, and presumably a Passport after that. And if they're going down this road, then, ugh ugh. That's my official opinion. I'm worried for the future.
GREG MIGLIORE: A very formal review there from James Riswick, right?
JAMES RISWICK: Bad. Bad. Bad.
GREG MIGLIORE: We have an official rating system on a scale from 1 to 10-- we don't give that a number, we'll give it kind of, like, an audible sort of groan or something worse than that. You know, the only $0.02 I'll add to this is I think the segment is getting better, again, than you might have thought.
Seltos, even the Chevy Trailblazer is interesting looking. There's options out there. So if you don't bring it, you're going to get left behind.
I did mention off the top that we talk about Twitter and Elon Musk. I feel like this far into a podcast, people maybe don't necessarily want to hear about Twitter and Elon Musk. It's a bit of an interesting situation. So I will just refer you out to the story on the website.
And actually, it's a really interesting time if you read a lot of media sites like I do to get that kind of non-automotive take on it-- like Poynter, The Information-- there's a lot of different sites out there that kind of are weighing in with different perspectives. And you know, we'll just see how this plays out.
So it's been a pretty good, long show. If you enjoy "The Autoblog Podcast," please leave us a five-star rating, like I said. That's five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get the podcasts. Send us your Spend My Moneys. That's podcast@autoblog.com.
Be safe out there. James, Joel, thanks for hanging out this week. I'm Greg. Be safe out there. We'll see you next week. Bye now.
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