In this week's Autoblog P0dcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by West Coast Editor James Riswick and Road Test Editor Zac Palmer. This week, they're driving a 2020 Acura NSX, two versions of the BMW 2 Series Gran Coupe (M235i and 228i) and the updated 2020 Honda Civic Si. Then, the gang gets to talking about what they'd drive in 1975 and 1985, along with plenty of other tangents. Finally, they wrap it up with news about the upcoming 2021 Acura TLX Type S and the fate of this year's Woodward Dream Cruise.
Transcript[MUSIC PLAYING]
GREG MIGLIORE: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Autoblog Podcast. I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me today on the phones, we've got Road Test Editor Zac Palmer, how you doing, man?
ZAC PALMER: I'm doing pretty good. How about you?
GREG MIGLIORE: Not bad, not bad. And on the west coast, West Coast Editor James Riswick. How you doing, man?
JAMES RISWICK: Just fine.
GREG MIGLIORE: All righty, let's get into the show. We got a great one for you. I spent some time in the Acura NSX, a modern supercar. It got a lot of attention in my neighborhood. It was fun to run some errands and things like that. We'll get into a little bit more, and then we're going to dive quite deeply into the BMW 2 Series Gran Coupe, which you've all been waiting for, right? But we actually had James drove the 228 and Zac drove the M235. So this is an instance where the fleets kind of lined up. We have some pretty comprehensive coverage here, so that should be good.
Then James also spent some time. We'll touch briefly on the Miata, the RF with the cool top on it, and of course the Civic SI. I've got a couple of lists that you guys might have seen on the site from the '80s and the '70s, 1985 and 1975, which we'll just kind of briefly touch on those. It was a lot of fun to do. You guys were really engaged with them in the comments. We'll talk about that a little bit. Just some of our reasoning behind our picks, and then maybe we'll throw some stones at the other picks that our fellow colleagues made, because they're not here to defend themselves. Let's put it that way. A little bit of the news. There's a new Acura today, and the Woodward Dream Cruise appears to be canceled. So that's the show. Let's get right in.
This weekend, this last week, I spent some time in the Acura NSX. This is an enjoyable car. I think it's you know, it's striking. I drove the one that had the carbon fiber interior and exterior packages, so you know, there's a lot of carbon fiber on it, let's put it that way. This one was bright red, almost like a crimson, if you will. It looks, you know obviously, I think the looks for this car have actually been agreeable in the fact that most people like it. Other supercars can get a little more divisive, but I think most people generally like the new NSX, and it was definitely fun to get attention and have people take pictures of it while I'm cutting my grass. That's always kind of fun to see.
So yeah, I mean, it passes that test for sure. How did it drive, you ask? Well, it was a lot of fun. It's, I think you know, the every day supercar sort of trope, if you will is, you know, applies to this thing. You can see it very well. It's a simple, intuitive interior. It reminds me a bit of when I drove a-- I think it was a 91 NSX. When I worked for "Automobile," I did a retro drive for them, and I mean, I was super psyched to drive it. I got into it, and then I kind of relaxed and was like oh, this is what this is. It's a Honda basically. I can do this. And that was sort of my like quick Saturday morning reaction once I got back into the NSX.
I've driven a few of these, this modern generation before. And once you get in there, feels right at home. It's simple, it's clean, again, intuitive. It's drivable, to use that kind of cliche, but you know, you can see out of it very well. It doesn't like rip your head off, if you will, like different versions of the-- I've not driven the C8 yet, but I drove all versions of the C6, C7. The Z06 is one in particular that would rip your head off, it would seem like. This car did not have that vibe. Controlled, poised. I was excited to drive it. I drove it at this time of the day when there was really nobody around, and I still ran into construction, so you know, welcome to Michigan, right? But that actually had me kind of learn more about the car, because I spent some time out on the surface streets which were not in good shape. The construction hasn't frankly resumed on those. They need some potholes, let's put it that way.
But in some supercars, some sports cars, you're going to need to visit your chiropractor after that. With the NSX, it's kind of a nice blend of tuning. Sporty but also, you know, it doesn't rip up your back. It doesn't really, you don't need to get your fillings adjusted, let's put it that way. So that's kind of like the five minute nutshell of my drive slash opening monologue, if you will. Zac, I want to bring you in, because I know you've driven the new NSX. You have a long history with the NSX. You didn't get to drive this one, obviously, but I mean, where would you put it in the ranks of the supercars right now?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah so like you said, I've had a lot of wheel time behind the original NSX. My dad owns a 1991, and I have had a surprisingly amount of wheel time behind this new one. I was actually at the first drive at the track last year, and then I also spent a weekend in a 2019 NSX driving it on the road just like you did. And in both situations, it is super at home. You know, you can bring it to the racetrack, and you know, it is the most capable car I have ever driven on track, hands down. Now, I have not driven something like a McLaren 720S or like a Ferrari F8 Tributo, or a Pista, or things like that. But as far as, you know, the sports car world, you are hard pressed to find something that is this capable with all wheel drive that feels this great. And then on the road, yeah.
Just like you said, Greg, it's a really great compromise between comfort, and you know, it's a lot like a Honda inside, just like the original one was. You know, it's not crazy like a Lamborghini in there where you're going to have 18 billion different switches, and it's impossible to see out the back. And you know, it's you get in it, it's turnkey, and you know what? I've seen a lot of criticism leveled at it for that. People say, oh, it doesn't feel like a real supercar because of all these things. Because it's, you know, it's simple, easy, but I know. It's still a very special driving experience from that standpoint. And you know, the original was a totally different beast, just because a lot of the supercars at that time, they didn't have that reliability or ease of use approach to them. But at this point, you know, everybody else has caught up.
So you can get into a new McLaren 570, and it's going to be reliable. It's not going to be impossible to figure out. It's not going to leave you stranded on the side of the road. And so the Acura doesn't really have that in its corner anymore, but there's still, I think, the whole NSX new sports car experience is still, you know, that ethos is still alive in it, because they tried to upend the world once, and this time, they tried to upend the world by going with the hybrid power train, which really nobody except for the 918 had done that. And it really still, at this point, people have not completely gone to that fully hybrid supercar.
You know, we see that McLaren have said that they're going to do it, but we see the, I believe, the new Ferrari SF90 Stradale is also going to plug-in hybrid, but it's still rather unique out there, and it's a cool option for around $156,000. Like you said, Greg, yours had the full carbon fiber exterior and interior on it. I know that those options bring it up into around the $200,000 range. And at that price point, it is well, it's a hard bargain to sell, I feel, especially when the C8 is just as fast in a straight line, and you can have it for 60 grand. So it's a great car, but you know, it's tough to justify it at some price points now.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, this one's $202,995, which is, you know, I actually didn't really quite realize that until after I had driven it. I had the spec sheet here, and it's like sort of, you know, I knew it, but it didn't really filter through if you will. But I mean, it's loaded up. It's got the carbon ceramic rotors, the calipers were silver, which looked pretty amazing, carbon fiber roof, carbon fiber, I mean, just like everything. It had the crazy carbon fiber deck lid spoiler. Not crazy, it was actually pretty tasteful, I think. Just carbon fiber everything. Valencia red pearl paint, which I was referencing earlier.
That's where I would diverge this new NSX with the past one, with its predecessor if you will. Because I thought that car had a really sort of understated design look that was cool, that was-- it was very '90s, let's put it that way. Like you know, you could just, when you think of the 90s supercar, you know, the NSX to me is one of the top five, if you will, as far as like iconic silhouettes and images. This one really veers into the more like technical looking, technical feeling. You know, the grill, the lights, all these curves and chisels and things going on. It's a really like, there's just a lot going on with this design. And generally I think it works, but that definitely makes it different than what the old one was. That's for sure.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. I mean, I feel like it is certainly more sharp edged and aggressive than the old one was, but I still think you line this up next to a Lamborghini Huracan or a Ferrari, and it does look more understated than those. It's still not, you know, to that level of aggression both inside and outside.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, especially inside. Inside it's like a Honda basically. I mean, a basic Acura, and I think that's a good thing. You know, having driven some of the McLarens and, Lambos, and different Ferraris. When you get in the Ferrari these days, and you're like, phew, what do I do? How does this all work sometimes? So I think simple is good. I think we've talked a lot about the Acura NSX. It was a lot of fun. It's, you know, let me put it this way, I have a Toyota Highlander, and nobody is stopping and taking camera phone shots of that, which is OK, you know, but it's definitely fun to get a car like an NSX, a bright Valencia red one that people seem to stop and look at and take videos.
It's a little creepy when people are videoing things in your driveway, but it's fun. You know, and it's fun to drive a supercar, let's put it that way. So we could leave it there. Let's move along to this like two series comparison test, if you will. Zac, why don't you kick things off? You were in the M235i. What'd you do with it? What'd you think of it? And then we can get James in.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, so I was in the new M235i Gran Coupe. It's called a Gran Coupe, but like every other BMW Gran Coupe, it is not a coupe. There are four doors. That's the most obvious difference first off with the regular two series. But really, this two series Gran Coupe could not be more different than the normal two series that we know that's a rear wheel drive car. This one is based on a front wheel drive architecture, but BMW only sells it in all wheel drive. And it has-- at least mine-- has a two liter turbo charged four cylinder, mix 301 horsepower, 332 pound feet of torque. And that is probably one of my favorite things about it actually is the engine is super, super strong. You know, you get to 60 in about four and a half seconds, which for an entry level car like this at its price point is not too bad.
And you know, it's a decent sound that comes from the exhaust, but you know, the actual going forward is probably about where my opinion starts to diverge from the positive to the neutral and negative about this car. I know I've been chatting with James back and forth all week about the looks. To me, this is one of the just worst looking BMWs that have come out in a long time. You know, it's this sort of soft curve rounded off face that sort of looks bulbous. And I don't normally do this by like comparing a car, oh, it looks like this car, or this car looks like that.
But you know, I cannot help but look at this car and just think Ford Focus. You know, the shape, the front end, the way the lines go back to the rear. There's just a lot of Ford Focus face to it. And then when you come around to the back, if you like the X6, you'll probably like what this car looks like in person, because it sort of just looks like a BMW X6 that's been squished down, and you know, all compressed, which is sort of weird, because it's like a crossover rear on a sedan shape. So that was definitely a bit weird to see.
It comes off the same in photos as it does in person to me. Sometimes a car will look a lot worse in photos than it actually does in person, but this one, I just really, really wasn't vibing with it. The saving grace for me was it had these 19 inch bicolor wheels on it that were very not Ford Focus like. Those looked luxurious, performance oriented, and pretty aggressive actually. But you know, when you get to the handling portion of it, technically there's a ton of grip, and I think that it's a solid handling car. Now that said, I didn't find it that fun to actually drive and push through corners. It handles a lot like the BMW X2, which is a small hatcher 5 crossover, which just doesn't really hit the mark for me when you're talking about a small BMW performance car.
You look at how great the M240i is, that is a really great small BMW right there. And frankly, I mean, the three series is a more fun car to drive from this one, just like the base one. Especially with the track handling pack, you get the big brakes, adaptive suspension. But this car, you know, it's all wheel drive. You can feel that BMW has done a pretty good job of making it not feel like a front wheel drive car, so it feels all wheel drive. It's neutral in corners and doesn't just start understeering when you put the throttle down.
But it's not fun as in like not a lot of power is going to the back. It's just enough power that it sort of keeps you in a straight line around corners. But it does have a lot of the things that I think somebody in this segment will like, which James actually mentioned to me. And I'll pull him in on this now since he had the 228i, which is the slightly less powerful version of my car with a few less things on it, but yeah. Go ahead, James.
JAMES RISWICK: Right, so the two series, yeah, I have the 228i, and also four cylinder turbo, 228 horsepower, 258 pound feet of torque, pretty standard amount of power for that size of engine in the segment. Now, I kind of found that this drives more like a BMW in feel than, say the Mercedes A class and CLA feel like Mercedes. Specifically because of the power train, just the throttle response, the transmission. It's in keeping, you can go from a two series to a three series and feel, yep, they're made by the same company.
Broadly speaking though, I do agree with Zac. It is-- the Ford Focus thing, I noticed that the second I saw this car. I knew it was coming, someone was dropping it off at my house. And because of the way things are working now, they just drop it off, leave the keys in. I came down 10 minutes later and thought someone had parked a Ford Focus across the street. They happened to, it was the two series, and Zac's car is white. That's even worse.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
JAMES RISWICK: Part of it has-- its entirely in the C pillar at the back, which does not have the BMW hoffmeister kink, and it's those curved rear fenders, and this thing, it's not, but it looks badge engineered. It looks like there's a Buick and a Pontiac version you can also buy. Just a BMW front and rear end slapped onto some generic looking thing. And I could not-- and it's ugly too, that's the other thing. This is Bangle era too, except it's done by a man named [? Damagache. ?] Not really, this is, Zac's absolutely right. And the other thing, you mentioned that it drives like an X2. I agree. I thought the X2, when I drove, that felt a bit like a BMW hot hatch, albeit one that's a little taller and kind of cross tracked. This also kind of drives like a BMW hot hatch, but it's lower-- and as such-- is just that much sharper to drive.
So I think there's certainly some comparisons to be made, at least this to 228i to a Volkswagen Golf R for instance. The Golf R is a lot quicker than this 228 for roughly the same price, has a smarter all wheel drive system. You can get it with a manual transmission, so yes, maybe you should get the Golf R. Either way, the other thing about this is price, because the price gap between a Mercedes A class and C class is more than $8,000. The difference between the 228i Gran Coupe and the 330i is only $3,000. That is not a very big gap. That's like 50 bucks a month, and it's just a less-- yes, it's less powerful, and yes, it's a bit smaller, and you can't get the same latest BMW tech in it, but it should be more than $3,000.
And I'm sure a BMW marketer out there will go, but wait, it's a Gran Coupe. Coupes are worth more, and it looks interesting-- yeah. No, it isn't. Mercedes didn't try that with the A class, and with the CLA, it can do that, because I'd argue the CLA does look pretty cool, and it is very sleek and that said, it's still, there's a bigger gap between CLA to C class. So from every perspective, just the fact that yes, it does drive like a BMW, but everything else is just kind of disappointing. And it's either not good enough for the price, or not distinctive enough for the price, or just there's just not enough of a gap between it and the three series.
ZAC PALMER: I'm not a big fan of the entire Gran Coupe concept. I feel like that's been something that BMW rolled out. I mean, they rolled it out roughly six, seven-ish years ago. And the way they execute the cars, I find it a little, it's a very watered down experience, I think. I think it works maybe in the larger cars, it starts to work a little bit better, but a two series Gran Coupe? Yeah, I don't know about that. That's kind of a questionable strategy.
JAMES RISWICK: Oh, it's pure marketing. It's pure marketing. Because it's--
ZAC PALMER: The backseat really isn't that utilitarian either. Like if I sit back there with my back straight, my head is resting on the ceiling. You know, it's not as though like-- and I'm not even six foot. I'm 5'10". And you know, there's an OK amount of room for knees, but still. I mean, I would not want to spend a whole lot of time back there. And that's like one of the big selling points versus a regular two series is you have those two rear doors. No. I will take a regular 228i or an M240i with the inline 6 which 350 horsepower. Yeah, that's much more like a rear wheel drive. Yeah, but you know, two doors versus four doors. That's--
[LAUGHTER]
That's what you're stuck with there.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool. So let's move on to the rest of the west coast fleet. James, the Miata and the Civic SI, why don't you touch on the Miata first?
JAMES RISWICK: All right, speaking of cars I did not like. So, it's a Miata, right? We're "Autoblog."
GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good. Yeah, man.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
JAMES RISWICK: All automotive journalists like Miatas. They're great. Except for this one had an automatic transmission. Cue the sad trombone.
GREG MIGLIORE: Ooh, that's a little bit of a unicorn.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah, I know. So let's talk about automatic transmission. Now generally, I'm a save the manuals kind of guy. I just mentioned that the 2 Gran Coupe, you can't get a manual, that's said. But here's the thing with the automatic in the Miata. It's not very good. I mean, it would be fine in any number of other cars, but it's not a performance oriented automatic. It's just not quick enough to respond both to your manual inputs as well as just smart enough to work on its own devices. It's not a duel. It's just a six speed automatic transmission, and this is not even like a number of gears situation, because that's this case in all of Mazda's cars, and they still manage to perform very well and get great fuel economy.
This, just for a performance oriented machine, it is just not appropriate, and it just kind of sucks the life out of the engine both in terms of the actual performance and the way it sounds. And the other thing about this one, it's the RF. Now, I don't really like this roof. It adds complexity and weight, and it maybe reduces headroom by a centimeter, which doesn't seem like a lot, but when you have virtually none to begin with, it does make quite a difference, and my head is now in that roof.
I kind of feel like Sean Connery in "You Only Live Twice" where they had to like chop the roof off the Toyota 2000 GT so his big Scottish head could like fit above the headliner, kind of like that with the Miata. But the thing is that especially with the automatic, but both elements, is that they just kind of rob the fun out of the car a bit and add unnecessary complexity to a car that doesn't need it, because the thing is just so much fun. Even one you just put it in drive, you feel that throttle response which is still so good, and it just makes the car just want to jump forward, and you immediately just want to do silly fun things in it moreso than virtually any other car on the road.
GREG MIGLIORE: How else was yours specked out? I'm curious. If they gave you an automatic, like what else was on this car? Like a cow catcher or something? I mean that's--
[LAUGHTER]
JAMES RISWICK: Well, the other thing about this is-- so it's with the automatic, it's the club-- OK, so let's go back. It's the club trim of the Miata. So this would be the one that is the most performance oriented one. However, with the automatic, there's a whole bunch of stuff you could not get on the car. You can't get the billstein dampers. You can't get-- there's a front shock tower brace that's on the club and a limited slip differentials-- you cannot get those with the automatic transmission. Dan Edmonds goes into why in his suspension deep dive, by the way. There's also not the induction sound enhancer, which is not like speakers, but is kind of like an induction tube thing. And you also can't equip it with the optional brim bow breaks. So it's a club basically in appearance only, and it has an automatic transmission. So this-- again, sad trombone.
GREG MIGLIORE: Was the Civic SI any better?
JAMES RISWICK: Yes, it was much better. Civic SI, yeah, much better performance by then a Miata automatic, the RF. Yeah, really enjoyed the Civic SI. You know, it's showing its age a bit in terms of its interior especially. This is mostly because of everything that it competes with. Obviously, there is no comparable performance version of the Mazda 3, but in terms of its interior quality, even like a Toyota Corolla now. But because this is an SI, it doesn't really have that same kind of competitive set in order to complain about interior quality.
They spruced up the interior were some red accents, and if you think that's garish, wait until you see a Type R. But for a front wheel drive car, the Civic SI is so much fun, and it does have a manual transmission. And not only does it have one, it is absolutely standard, and you can't get it with an automatic, so bravo to Honda. Perhaps it doesn't come with an automatic, because Honda didn't have one that they thought was appropriate enough for a performance oriented vehicle like the Civic SI, and they were smart about that.
GREG MIGLIORE: Very good, very good. Boy, we kind of started and ended the review section with a monologue by me, and then a monologue by James, and in between, we sort of let Zac talk for a little bit about a BMW.
[LAUGHTER]
So yeah. I guess, why don't move along to the list section. We had a lot of fun with this. We have another one coming up. But the last couple of weeks, we've picked cars we would have driven from the middle of the decades of the '80s and the '70s. So that's a long way of saying, what car would you drive in 1975 or 1985? James, you were kind of the ringleader of these two lists. We do have '65 coming up shortly. I need to get my entry. It may be coming over later, so I'm going to forewarn you now-- and everybody else listening to this-- but I don't know. What was the idea behind this, first of all, James. Just tell everybody why we did this. See, we're bored. Like the car world's shut down.
JAMES RISWICK: Well, I mean, I'll keep this brief, but I was-- you know, normally while working out in the evening, I watch like a sporting event but since there's no new sporting events, I've gone back in time. So I was watching a baseball game from 1985, and the person who YouTubed this kept some commercials in from the NBC affiliate in Fargo, North Dakota. That was fun.
- That's very fun.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. But there was a Ford Tempo commercial, brand new Ford Tempo commercial with a great deal of 8.8% financing. Ooh.
GREG MIGLIORE: Wow.
ZAC PALMER: Wow.
JAMES RISWICK: 1985. Sign me up.
[LAUGHTER]
And you know, there was like Carl Yastrzemski for Chevy trucks, and so that just got me thinking, hmm, if I was suddenly found myself in 1985, what car would I buy? And you know, with some reasonable price point, let's keep it reasonable. I'm not going to-- like I can't buy a Lamborghini today, I couldn't buy a Lamborghini back then. So yeah, so I just thought, hmm, what would you drive in 1985? I picked a 1985 Saab 900 Turbo with the three door, because I don't know, just kind of wanted something European and the BMW 3 Series wasn't that distinctive then. Thought I'd just be weird and go with the Saab.
GREG MIGLIORE: Even though the lead image is an Iraq Kamaru with you in a foreigner t-shirt, so.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Which is great.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, that picture.
GREG MIGLIORE: I would more of a Journey man myself, buy hey. Which car did you pick?
JAMES RISWICK: Well, I
GREG MIGLIORE: No, go ahead.
JAMES RISWICK: No, I was going to say that photo that is used is from the photo shoot of the 1987 Buick Grand national photo shoot I did when I worked at Edmond's.
GREG MIGLIORE: OK.
ZAC PALMER: Wow.
JAMES RISWICK: We kind of did a 1980s themed photo shoot for the long term introduction. Kind of made it look like an '80s ad campaign. It's pretty epic. Sadly, they've removed the photos since then.
[LAUGHTER]
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, I'm curious.
JAMES RISWICK: That photo is just one I took in the break room with my own camera, and I don't know.
GREG MIGLIORE: Did you Photoshop the hair though or are you--
JAMES RISWICK: No, no, no, that is a Hollywood quality human hair wig that like a real wig maker for Hollywood made for us and cut it into a mullet. I have it to this day. I could have-- and the shirt. Shirts behind me right now in the garage. I could retake that photo for you in 10 minutes if you wanted. Please don't make me.
GREG MIGLIORE: That is my favorite part of this article now. I didn't know that. I thought that was just creative Photoshop. I'm so glad to hear that's true.
JAMES RISWICK: No, no, yeah, me is real.
GREG MIGLIORE: Give me another few weeks in coronavirus quarantine, and my hair is not going to be far off from that. Maybe not quite that long, but it's that tall at the moment, let's put it that way. Man, the '80s were an interesting time. This is a fun list. I mean, Byron Herd threw in there a Mustang SVO, we got a Grand Cherokee-- or Grand Cherokee-- Cherokee from Jeremy who, of course, likes to steer towards Jeeps. Joel threw in a-- let's see, Joel through in a Honda, or no, he threw in a Toyota. That's great. I mean, check out the list. It's better than me reading it. But you know, if you're at home, check these lists out. They're cool. Zac, as somebody who wasn't born in the '80s, I'm curious how you approached your decision here.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, so I've always loved the Scirocco, which is one that I picked. I definitely like the first gen Scirocco more than the second Gen. I mean, the first thing on my mind. I know James was actually sharing the 10 best list from "Car and Driver" at that time, which is full of some really great cars, full of some Hondas too. I have plenty of history with Honda, so I was like, all right, Prelude, maybe the Civic, but no. I was like, I'd love a European coupe. I love the shape of the Scirocco. I was pretty sad that I couldn't get the 16 valve, which was 86, but you know, the original press photo that came with this one was probably the final nail in the coffin. I just love that slanted back look, and yeah. No, I mean, everybody chose coupes, which I thought was pretty awesome. Like almost every single one of us chose coupes.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, almost everybody.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, almost.
GREG MIGLIORE: And what is the opposite of the show--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
GREG MIGLIORE: A 1985 Oldsmobile Delta 88, which has literally no curves or angles. It's one big barge of a battleship, an Iowa class battleship on wheels. Yeah, I just, when you do these lists, you've gotta have some fun. For James, that means rocking a foreigner t-shirt and a mullet, and for me, that's like, let's pull out the Rocket 88 Olds, and I don't know. Yeah. I kind of like that car.
JAMES RISWICK: You know, I'm pretty sure that my grandfather owned an Oldsmobile Delta 88 in 1985.
GREG MIGLIORE: Nice.
JAMES RISWICK: And the one you picked is more of a grandpa car than that one.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, yeah, yeah, check out those wheel colors.
JAMES RISWICK: Because he had the coupe.
[LAUGHTER]
Yeah, but that car, man alive. Well, I think the car I was taken home from the hospital in was a Buick Le Saber from like '81 or something? And it's the same damn car, right?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think the reason I actually like this car. I mean, I like this car for so many different reasons. How can you not like this car? You're crazy if you don't. But when I was a kid, I want to say sometime in the-- this was somewhere in the '80s. One of those like early to mid '80s Oldsmobiles. It was a Delta '88 we had as a loaner. I don't know why. I think it was because my parents '73 Chevelle was in for who knows what the problem was, and I just loved this Oldsmobile. And I was a little kid and probably was in the car seat, who even knows at that point if you bothered to put a car seat in a loaner car. This must have been probably the late '80s at this point, but I like that old Reagan era Oldsmobile. So why don't we flash back, and--
JAMES RISWICK: Well, actually--
GREG MIGLIORE: Go ahead, James.
JAMES RISWICK: Speaking of which--
GREG MIGLIORE: I'm starting to sound like a DJ here.
JAMES RISWICK: Well, at this time, yeah, the Le Saber in my family was replaced by an '83 Cutlass Sierra, so we too were Oldsmobile people, but we had downsized to something.
GREG MIGLIORE: Something more sensible.
JAMES RISWICK: A little smaller.
GREG MIGLIORE: And keeping with the times.
JAMES RISWICK: More manageable, yeah. Yeah, my mother ended up with that car, and then got rid of it and got an Integra never looked back.
GREG MIGLIORE: We sound pretty old. I mean, it's 3:30 Eastern time. Dinner is coming up soon maybe at the Sizzler, we can make the-- you know, whatever.
JAMES RISWICK: Let's go, let's go, great. Let's talk about 1977.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, let's flash back even farther. I said like a DJ here.
JAMES RISWICK: Well, the great thing about the '75 one-- and speaking of Oldsmobile-- was I ended up finding like old advertisements for cars, and the 1975 Oldsmobile ad collection is really special. You have, it's these lifestyle things where you have this cowboy parked in a field with his bright red Toronado where his cowboy friends and cows were around. Like why is this car there? Did he park it there? Was it abandoned? Like why?
Just the questions that you have about how these cars ended up where they were. You know, the family of eight parked with their custom cruiser again in a field next to their farm. Yeah. If you want to have fun on the internet, look up old car ads and brochures from the '70s, because it is just-- it's a wonderful time, just a wonderful way to spend time-- or waste it-- either way.
- Buick?
JAMES RISWICK: The Pontiac ones were good. They're all like a dark alley.
[LAUGHTER]
GREG MIGLIORE: I would just say this. Public relations and advertising sounds like it was a very different thing. Obviously we've all seen "Mad Men," but you know, some of the PR people I've worked with who have been around a little bit longer, you know, they tell stories about the '70s, and you can kind of see where these pictures came from, let's put it that way, that the mindset and the yeah. I mean, like this one on top, the lead image, like doesn't it look like Ralph Lauren? Like what's even going on there? Like it's--
[LAUGHTER]
I don't even know.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. in a field with cowboys.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I mean, why not? In the Pontiac one like you said is hilarious. Like let's park your Pontiacs in the middle of nowhere in a dark alley but like then shine spotlights on them. I don't know. It's--
JAMES RISWICK: You know what? Like so I'm looking at this, and it kind of looks like it's a garage, and it looks like it's supposed to be like a race car in like a garage that's open. Except it's clearly just a photo of a race car in a garage that they like projected or something behind the photo. Yeah. Bravo, the '70s.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, it reminds me of when I try to like take like a fancy picture but I don't really have the time to do it, and I just do it on my phone for a tweet or something, and I like turn the flash way up, and like oh, this is going to look cool, like a magazine cover, but they actually did it that way in 1975.
JAMES RISWICK: Oh, and speaking again, but your picture grandpa there is another Oldsmobile. This time of a middle aged couple in front of their Royal Viking Cruise liner. They've just parked their car right on the dock, ready to go.
[LAUGHTER]
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, I don't know where they're taking that.
JAMES RISWICK: Like at the cargo level, too. Like, are they taking it with them?
GREG MIGLIORE: Maybe they are. They're going to-- looks like they're heading back to Oslo, and there you go. I actually really think the '75 Cutlass held up-- this is really qualifying it-- among the best of some of those like oil price issues, like fuel economy strangled GM like muscle air quote cars at that point. I think it still looked pretty good compared to like the way the Chevelle kind of devolved in some of the other ones. Even though I will argue I think the '73 Chevelle still looks pretty good. But that's my rabbit hole. Zac, you actually had some taste for your pick.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: You want to explain? And you briefly owned part of one it sounds like.
ZAC PALMER: I did actually. Yeah, so I chose a 914, and I think I have to say that my photo is the most stylish of all of them.
GREG MIGLIORE: I wouldn't disagree with that.
ZAC PALMER: A green 914 just looking very, very pretty in Europe somewhere most likely. But yeah, like you said, Greg, I owned a 914 for a very short period of time. My original plan with it was I was going to restore it, it was going to be my first car, and I was going to drive it through high school, and yeah. I really had no other plans than just, you know, fixing up this old car that I really bought for nothing, because it had no engine, no transmission, not much of an interior or anything, so but yeah. No, I smarted up, sold that thing, and bought an Acura Integra. Maybe you think it was around choice, but it was definitely better for me to have when I was 16 years old as my first car. But yeah, you know, if I was in 1975, I would absolutely be driving a mid engine Porsche with, you know, a T top and the power wasn't that great back then, so screw it. It's the four cylinder, and yeah, just having some fun with the top down. Obviously, very different from your Oldsmobile, Greg.
GREG MIGLIORE: And it's funny, because like, there's different ways to approach this job. Some things are super serious, and some things are like whimsical, let's make this up and throw a dart, and for whatever reason on those two-- whatever it was-- Tuesday, Wednesday nights, I'm thinking Oldsmobile. And I'd like literally if you asked me today, probably would pick something different. But I still stand behind those picks, so.
JAMES RISWICK: I'm with you, man. I like Oldsmobiles.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
JAMES RISWICK: I always have. Maybe it's cause it's gone now, and there's kind of like you fondly remember them, but nevertheless, I thought they were kind of-- I like their vibe. I just generally like the Oldsmobile vibe.
GREG MIGLIORE: Snyder took my Cutlass, the one I wanted in the '80s, so you know, that had to throw me into the Delta '88 realm, which is OK.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, if we ever go away back in time like into the '20s, James, you're going to have to get a "Great Gatsby" get up or something like that for the photo.
JAMES RISWICK: Yes. Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, for some real timey stuff.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, as our New Year's eve party this year was "Great Gatsby" New Years, that's going to be easy.
ZAC PALMER: You're set. Looks like we should be doing 1925.
GREG MIGLIORE: 1925.
[LAUGHTER]
JAMES RISWICK: Well, as we all like Trudeau cars that look exactly the same.
GREG MIGLIORE: What's your favorite post-war car? As in post World War I car?
ZAC PALMER: Post World War I.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. I'm just going to say right now we eliminate the just be reasonable man, because I'm picking a Pierce era.
[LAUGHTER]
ZAC PALMER: I'm driving a Duesenberg.
JAMES RISWICK: Something ridiculous.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I was just about to say Duesenberg. We can all fight over which Duesenberg we want.
JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. Because otherwise you're just going to pick like a black Model T or a black Chevy that looks like the same. Like either you can just do that or like yeah, I'm rolling in the purple Rolls Royce.
ZAC PALMER: Maybe a Delahaye? That sounds pretty fun.
GREG MIGLIORE: A Delahaye or a Voisin, if I can get that out, French car that I believe built engines for the French army, Army air corps, and then made cars. So hey, if you want to go to some deep cuts, we could do it. Also, if you're listening to this, and we're a little well into the podcast, we hope you listen to all the way through. If you don't, that's fine. But hey, leave us a comment, if you're curious, if you think we should go as far back to 1925. Because I think we just want to do it, but I'd kind of like to know if people would actually read the story. So if you're strongly in favor of us rocking cars from 95 years ago, let us know in the comments, or just tweet at James. That's fine too.
[LAUGHTER]
Yeah. Those lists were fun. '65 is going to be fun too. I mean, if you think the '70s were great, I can only imagine how the '60s were. You know, '20s, you know, the Roaring '20s.
JAMES RISWICK: But one of the things with the '60s is we're going to have much, much, much better cars, but the art will be less interesting.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's' true. That's true. All right, so let's just touch on some briefly on some news here as we get out the door. Acura TLX is back. Well, it's here. Let's put it that way. We're getting this teased out. There's going to be more details coming up in the coming days. Let's put it that way. Revise revives the Type S moniker and it gets Acura's turbocharged V6, which that really to me is a very key element here. I think that's a great thing. I'm excited about this engine.
You know, check out the story. Associate Editor Byron Hurd compiled the sort of the preview, if you will, this morning. Again, embargo is going to be-- full embargo is next week. But this is a decent look as far as teaser shots go. My first thought was this looks like an Alpha, like the Julia when I saw it hit my inbox. But I think that's a good thing. Zac, why don't we throw a view real quick, because I know your pedigree on Acuras goes back deeply. How are you feeling about this?
ZAC PALMER: I am really, really excited for the return of performance Acuras that are at an attainable price point other than the NSX. This is kind of how, you know, Acura did it back in the day. You know, that they came out with the NSX, the halo car, and then a whole lot of really awesome performance Hondas and Acuras followed. You know, you had some great Integras, really great Preludes, mini Civics, you know, the legend was fantastic. That was actually before the NSX. But yeah, I mean, if for whatever reason, we see the same thing, Acura has the NSX.
You know, the reborn NSX, and now we're seeing Acura performance cars have a revitalization themselves, I am going to be really excited. This three leader twin turbo V6, that is going to be-- and the type S-- is probably going to be fantastic. You know, I'm guessing, you know, high 300's if not 400 horsepower from that thing. Probably won't have a manual. That's just the way of the world these days, but maybe the non type S TLX with the two liter turbo, maybe? You know, there's a manual transmission in the Accord with that two liter turbo right now, so they might pull a Genesis 370 and throw the manual on the lower spec version, but who really knows at this point? But yeah, super excited for a somewhat affordable performance Acura car.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think that's going to do a lot for their brand. I think it's going to really maybe help them reconnect with a new type of customer. I think they-- this reminds me a little bit of what they tried to do with the ILX, which really didn't do much of anything for them. So I think, you know, this could maybe be more of a holistic and impressive effort, so we'll see. Again, I'm fired up about this engine. I think it could really be the right thing to kind of like play to their base, and I guess we'll see, so yeah. James, any thoughts on this?
JAMES RISWICK: I think the car needs to look fantastic.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JAMES RISWICK: If it doesn't, then who cares? No one will ever notice. It really comes down to that, because the last time, the TL in '09 utterly torpedoed Acura for a decade.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JAMES RISWICK: The Acura TL was a best selling luxury car period. And the '09 happened and done. This car, in order for it to be, you know, we can love turbo charged V6 all we want, and it could be really great, but unless the car looks good and makes people go hmm, what's that? Who aren't impressed by turbo charged V6s, then it'll be utterly irrelevant. Because right now, Acura, you know, they have their RDX and their MDX, you know, they're pretty sensible for a luxury vehicle, and that's why people buy them. Largely the same people who have-- the large subset of people who bought Acuras since the very beginning, because it's a more sensible purchase of a luxury car with a higher degree of refinement than you would get in a Honda.
And then for a while, you know, turn of the century that the second generation TL, the third generation TL, which was wedgy and legitimately looked good to this day. The TLX at the same time. There were reasons to desire those cars for people beyond just either performance oriented folks or the sensible shoes people. But that has not been the case anymore, and it's really kind of, what is Acura? There's not a lot of brand identity there. You know, they've come up with this more performance oriented slogan, yada, yada, but a slogan is only, there's only so much.
This will be the first car to show, you know, the fully formed and realized new Acura, and will it look good enough? And will the actual performance oriented nature be good enough? We'll just have to wait to see, because I think this is kind of a make or break moment for Acura. If this car isn't good enough, and isn't as successful as it can be, you wonder why they even bother, because the luxury game is so crowded now and is so legitimately tough. In order for you to stand out, you have to, well, stand out. Acura isn't doing that right now, and this car is going to determine whether it can in the future.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well said. Well said.
ZAC PALMER: I think that if it looks like the Type S concept that we saw a while back that it's going to be a hit. That is one of my favorite looking concepts that I've seen in a long time. That extremely blue sedan that they showed. I saw it in person at the Chicago Auto Show earlier this year and just was blown away by how good the sedan looks and hopefully that translates to production, because they have said that this is the design language that we're using for the new TLX, so fingers crossed on that one.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, absolutely. We'll tie up the show here with news that it sounds like the Woodward Dream Cruise which, for some of you it's a big deal, for some of you maybe not so much, but it's, you know, it bills itself as one of the largest single day car events in the world. Generally draws upwards of a million sometimes two million people to Woodward Avenue. It appears to be the latest sort of cancelation due to the coronavirus. If you look at our headline or you look at our story, we're saying it's probably likely canceled, so we'll see. I mean honestly, I think what could happen is people are still going to cruise. People are cruising. I have-- actually, I go to this sort of jewelry off of Woodward, and I was over there a couple of weeks ago, and you saw a lot of people. The weather was getting nicer, people were still out there with their cars.
It's just kind of a Michigan tradition, if you will. But I'll be interested to see how this plays out. The news of the day is two of the communities along Woodward have sort of voted to say, hey, you can't do this, which is entirely logical. You know, we don't really know how this pandemics going to look in late August. You still probably don't want a million plus people in close quarters at that point. But on the other hand, you could theoretically drive your car safely up and down the street. You might not want to keep your windows open if you're bumper to bumper with like a couple of 100,000 other people, but I don't know. Zac, I know you didn't write the story, but you've been to Woodward a lot. What do you think? You think this is going to happen? You think it's going to happen in some form? You know.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, so the way that I pretty much see this playing out is, you know, there is not going to be an organized part of this event. You know, normally you'd have GM, Ford, FCA. Everybody has giant displays, there's grandstands everywhere, there's tents all the way up and down Woodward. There's just a lot of people gathering, all the restaurants are open. You know, you could hang out at there's this one giant pub that everybody hangs out at and watches the cars, but it's probably not going to be like that. It's probably just going to be, you know, people are still going to come out cruise. I have no doubt of that. You know, there will still be thousands upon thousands of muscle cars, performance cars, not even road legal cars, everything that come out.
But yeah, you just won't have Chevy there with a display with the new C8, or you won't have Ford with Mustang Ally, and people, hey, I guarantee that people will still set up their lawn chairs on the side to watch them go by. You know, hopefully everybody is responsible, keeping their distance, because I could totally see that being somewhat of an issue with law enforcement. Just so long as people are keeping safe, keeping to their cars. It's going to unofficially happen really. I know the organizers haven't actually come out and said hey, it's off, it's canceled, but Woodward's a public road, people are going to cruise. Like you said, they're already cruising. I was there, I think last Saturday night, just wanted to see what it looked like, and yeah. Cars everywhere already, and it's May, and the Dream Cruise is in August. So we have a long summer ahead of us here.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I think honestly, it probably is going to-- part of me cynically is wondering if these like local cities are maybe using this as an opportunity to say, man, this overruns our downtown. Let's like try and close off the crowds, and this is our road. I don't know. Maybe that's too cynical considering how much money it pumps into the local economy. You know, I don't think you'd want to shut your-- literally the tap off for that kind of revenue.
Theoretically, you could do this as a little bit of a virtual event. Like let the cars still show up, but keep the crowds away. I don't know how you do that. My guess-- fingers crossed-- is Michigan's restrictions are going to be basically wide open unless we get hit like with some sort of early second wave. People aren't really predicting that for August. If something like that were to happen, people are like well, that's probably more like flu season. You know, like you said, Zac, good luck with social distancing though. That's where I think this gets tricky is the crowd control. So.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: So we'll see.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right, and I think that's it for this week of the show. Any final thoughts? You guys holding up well during your various lockdowns? At least you're driving BMWs.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah, no, I'm good. I'm actually in a long term S60T8 this week. It's plugged in right outside.
GREG MIGLIORE: Nice.
ZAC PALMER: So I'm excited to do a little electric motoring this week.
GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds fun. James?
JAMES RISWICK: Well, I was supposed to be in Osaka, Japan right now on vacation, so you know, it's a little disappointing, but I'll just have to soothe myself with that ugly BMW out front and the Mercedes GLS63 that will be replacing it, so you know, my life's not that bad
ZAC PALMER: That's a nice dose of like 617 horsepower. That's not too bad. Something like that.
JAMES RISWICK: All of them. Just all of the horsepower.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
[LAUGHTER]
GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Good times. Well, everybody be safe out there, and we'll see you next week.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
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