In this week's Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor, Green, John Beltz Snyder and Associate Editor Joel Stocksdale. They spend the first part of the episode chatting about the 2019 Frankfurt Motor Show, including the hottest reveals, coolest concepts and our editors' favorite cars from the event. Then they talk about the cars they've been driving, including the Ford F-250 Super Duty Power Stroke, Lexus GS F 10th Anniversary edition and the BMW X3. Finally, they take to Reddit to help someone pick a practical used car.
Transcript- Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Greg Migliore. Welcome to another episode of the Autoblog podcast. Joining me today in studio, Senior Editor for all things Green, John Snyder.
- Hey.
- How are ya?
- Good, how are you?
- Doing well. Doing well, and Associate Editor Joel Stocksdale.
- Hey.
- Cool, cool, let's jump right in. So today's show is actually pretty simple. We've got a ton of Frankfurt news. Then we're going to go through the fleet. We've got a lot of cool things in the fleet, too, a Super Duty, an F-250 with the power stroke diesel.
So we'll tell you a little bit what that's like to drive and just how we feel about driving big trucks. We also have the Lexus GSF, which was a lot of fun, and the BMW X3, which I literally just drove into the office a couple hours ago after letting my dog out for lunch. Lastly, we will spend your money. Speaking of dogs, we have a special guest in the-- was in the studio, but in the office today, Magnolia.
- Yeah, my little pup. She ran into one glass meeting room walls and interrupted a meeting a few minutes ago.
- I mean, we weren't going to say anything.
- She's fine. It was really funny though. But no, she's hanging out with podcast producer Eric, who is baby sitting here in our other studio.
- There we go. That's all you need, teamwork here. Yeah, that's what we do. So Frankfurt, I thought this was a pretty good show this year.
- Yeah.
- It was pretty green too. A lot of stuff that I really liked and a lot of good stuff that seems pretty realistic, some cool production cars, and then some interesting concepts. And then I really liked that Hyundai electric race car, too, the Hyundai Veloster N ETCR.
- Yeah, that was sweet looking. They did a good job of making it look the part for sure. It stands out in a crowded field over in Frankfurt, which is not easy for Hyundai to do.
- Right.
- It's not their home auto show.
- Well, they had a ton of things there.
- They really brought it.
- They had their 45 concept. They had a bunch of stuff.
- The 45, Joel, you and I were just talking about that. I think that looks really cool, kind of retro. Yeah, I think it's very sweet.
- Yeah, it's inspired by Hyundai's first production car, and also, a concept that led up to that. And it definitely nails retro futuristic kind of work. It's all silver and angular.
And it looks inspired by kind of the '70s and '80. It's actually kind of funny to think that this is now to Frankfurt shows in a row where we've seen a car maker make an electric vehicle concept based on kind of their old stuff. Because the Honda E, the concept version made its debut at Frankfurt two years ago.
- Yeah, and this one, it's very conceptual as a concept car. There's not a lot of concrete details, but it's sort of going to show what they can do with cars as they become more automated, make it more of a living space for when people are doing something other than driving. How do they hang out in their cars?
Which I don't know. I'm a little torn on this car, because we've seen a lot of concepts like that. But this one's pretty well executed, but I'm not sure how I feel about the looks. I don't know. It's a tough one, but I'll give it a pass though.
- OK, pass. Yeah, I like it. I think it looks great. If they did build something like this, it'll be really tough for them to make this concept come to life.
- Oh yeah, for sure.
- I mean, we say that all the time, but I think here, it would be especially difficult. Like by the time this thing came out, it would probably look like an Elantra GT or something, which would be sad, I think.
- I mean, I think the shape of it is actually pretty production feasible. It's just making it fit in with the rest of the Hyundai lineup right now would be kind of tricky, because it clearly pulls from like design language from 30, 40 years.
- Yeah, say, 45 years ago.
- I'm not that great at math. That's why I'm in this business and not mentioned here.
- The back end really looks like mid '70s, which it'd be interesting to see if they could do something like that. Because again, you're right. I mean, even with crash testing, they might have to do some tricks there. Same with sort of those angled, yet, also, slab sides. Again, this is totally like not what you look at in the Hyundai dealership right now. Yeah, go ahead, Joel.
- No, if you want to talk about an electric car that really doesn't look very feasible at all, but is really cool, there's the Audi AI Trail Quattro.
- Yeah, that one's pretty wild.
- I was just going to bring that up. It's awesome. I really-- it was close to being my favorite car at the show. It probably was my actual pure favorite. I love the different ranges, like on road. And then, if you go on the trail, they specified just how much range you could get off of there. They should do this, like build this thing. Yeah, we're being fanboys about it, but it's OK to be a fan.
- But how would Audi do-- I mean, I could actually see Jeep doing something like this more likely.
- Because it's like just in case you haven't seen an audience, it kind of looks like a cross between a Wrangler and a Mars Rover.
- It sounds good to me.
- It's got a huge, chunky tires and the sleek, futuristic body kind of suspended between the giant tires. And it's totally cool, but I don't-- I don't see how Audi could ever. And it's not like any Audi that is in production right now. Audi doesn't have like a hardcore off roader.
- Well, maybe they should. I mean, if you're going to go to the trouble of doing a concept like this, why not build it?
- I mean, It's kind of the rage right now. I mean, look at Rivian Bollinger. Jeep's electrifying things. It's going to be a hot part of the market at some point in the near future for people with the resources to spend on that sort of thing.
- This one's essentially like-- you know, it's almost like one of those three wheeler things. It has four wheels, but it's like one of those three wheeler things that you see on the road that just--
- Right.
- It's like, yeah, you could drive it on the road, but it's better on the track. And this seems like something that you wouldn't really want to drive it. You'd want to drive it on the trail.
- Which technically you wouldn't have to drive it, because it is-- it does have full autonomy on street roads. I mean, you'd have to drive on the dirt.
- We're overlooking the elephant here. It's the Audi AI.
- Yeah, that's true, but then you have to sit in this kind of dune buggy thing while it drives itself. That seems kind of terrifying, but yeah, check it out. Pictures are awesome. I mean, we got to talk about the Defender. I think it lived up to the hype.
I'd give it an A minus, which is a very good grade, like 90 something percent, like 91%, 92%. I think it looks great. I think it's surprisingly more capable than, I think, I thought it was going to be.
- Yeah.
- Like there's a couple of serious motors under the hood of this thing.
- Yeah, and I forget what the towing capacity is.
- 80 to 200.
- Yeah, which is really impressive.
- Yeah, that's really impressive.
- So that one's pretty cool.
- I think it's going to really stand out almost like when you see this thing on the street, you're going to be like, wow, you know? It's one of those, and Jaguar and Land Rover have done this. They bring their concepts to life, like Jerry McGovern, and previously, Ian Callum at Jaguar. You see these things, like the F Type, I think, is a great example. It's like, wow, that's like driving a concept car, and not everybody could do that.
So I think that's awesome. I don't love the front end a little bit. I feel like they could have gone-- everybody's calling this retro. I think they could have gone more retro maybe with just some of the body paneling and stuff. Back end does look very retro though. Overall, though, like I said, a solid A minus, really good effort. What do you guys think?
- I feel like you don't want to go too retro just because, I mean--
- That's fair. That's fair.
- Because one of the issues that I've always seen with going super retro is, where do you go for the next generation? It's like, well, we've decided that we're going to just stay with the same sort of design. I mean, it can work.
- Right. you sort of paint yourself into a corner if you do that.
- Right. I mean, I kind of feel a little bit like that. Maybe what's happened with the Chevy Camaro, like the current generation.
- Dodge Challenger too.
- Yeah, I mean, and it can work. Challenger is milking that design for all it's worth, and you can break out of it. I mean, you look at the Ford Mustang, and it went super retro from 2005 to just a couple of years ago. And then they went super modern on the next one.
- That's a good point.
- But I feel like that's always kind of a tricky thing. So like, if you can kind of find that happy medium between modern and retro, that gives you a little bit of wiggle room for future generations.
- So my favorite car of the show was the Mercedes Vision EQS. It was like the previewing the EQ version of the S class, all electric. I think this thing looks awesome. If you just take those giant wheels, I think they're like 26 inch wheels on this thing, shrink them down to a realistic size, and tone down that light up grill a bit. I think it's pretty much good to go. This thing looks really sleek. It looks typically Mercedes.
Mercedes says, it's going to have 100 kilowatt hour battery pack with 435 miles of range, which is really good. But I mean, that's Europe cycle, so who knows how that'll translate? The two electric motors, 469 horsepower, 560 pound via torque, and then all the things you expect from an S class, all the comfort, and convenience, and tech. Mercedes has been doing a really good job of implementing tech into its interiors lately, and yeah, I can see this car not having to change a whole lot and being something I would really want.
- And looking at spy shots, the production one is going to look pretty similar to it.
- Yeah.
- And I'm genuinely kind of surprised, because the EQS is super swoopy.
- It really is.
- It's really curvaceous and flowing.
- That's something that I feel like Mercedes has been able to do well on a lot of its cars.
- Yeah, but a lot of them are still very traditional shape. They're kind of a straight, and broad shouldered, and kind of-- I mean, there's definitely like an organic rounding to them. But overall, they still look pretty traditional in shape. This looks-- I think I know that one of our editors said something about that it looks a lot like the first generation Mercedes CLS.
- Yeah, that's the sense that I sort of get from it. It's got that vibe to it.
- Let me guess. That was a Ryswick or a Kierstein observation.
- I almost think it might have been Zack, but I don't know.
- Zack had a great line. I think he wrote up one of the stories on this, like how he's just such an LED light show. I think he said, it's lit, which is totally true.
- Oh, wow.
- I mean, you guys remember the band lit, by the way?
- Vaguely.
- No.
- College house party rock.
- I couldn't name one of their songs, but I'd probably know it if I heard it.
- Yeah, anyways, this car is definitely lit with all the different lights. I mean, literally, I think it gets the award for like maybe most beautiful in the show.
- I think so.
- I mean, I think it's gorgeous.
- I just-- I'm looking at the spy shots right now. And if they can just take off-- I want to see what's under the camo on the grill specifically. Because that could sort of make or break this car visually for me.
- I think it's going to be similar, or at least it's going to look like the EQC grill.
- Yeah, which in person isn't too crazy.
- No, it's pretty normal.
- I mean, if this is sort of the counterpart to the S class, I think it's OK if they really kind of bling out the grill and give it that gravitas, if you will. I mean, I'm excited about this car. I think it looks really good. But speaking of grills, there was a BMW grill there that I was-- so I signed on yesterday morning, maybe about 6:15, 6:30 in the morning.
Jeremy was doing sort of our dawn patrol before the rest of you guys signed on, and I just want to get on early. Because it's auto show day. Yeah, I like it. Literally, his line was like, yeah, I'm working on the Concept 4. What's he talking about? Then I opened up my email and saw the pictures. What do you guys think?
- You know, I mean, I'm actually getting used to this look, this weird sort of variation on the double kidneys. This big sort of buck tooth look was on the I iNext concept, too, which I didn't like that too much. But here, this is becoming more like a-- the double kidneys are growing into an actual grill rather than just these little sort of inserts sort of visually.
And I think that's OK. I think, if they keep massaging it a little bit, they might get to something where it looks kind of like what they're going for now, but a little more palatable to the general audience, I think. But I'm cool with it.
- Yeah, I think they can make it work. I don't think it quite works on this concept. I think it's a little bit too wide and a little bit too tall still. Because the thing is, I mean, BMW can make a sort of narrow vertical twin kidney shape work. They've done it in the past, like a lot of their old cars in 2002, the old six series, like the CSL or shark like looking BMW coupes.
They've got the narrow kidneys, and they've got some grill off to the sides around it, which kind of helps smooth it all out. But I think just shrinking this down a little bit, making it a little bit more vertical, and making the split between the kidneys a little bit more prominent, I think, they could have something there. And maybe even if they make it lean forward even just a little bit more, kind of like those old shark like BMW's.
- Yeah, I love that.
- OK, you're right. I get that. There you go.
- Like I can see how they could make this work, but this concept doesn't quite pull it off. It is definitely the best version of this super tall grill, but yeah, it is a little bit more massaging. And I do understand everybody's gut reaction to be terrified of it, but I do think they could make it work. I don't know if they will, but they could.
- I don't quite get the-- I don't totally get what they're doing here as far as roll out this grill that seems almost intentionally kind of crazy and garish. I don't know. I mean, I guess maybe they think, hey, this is good, which is a little scary.
- I mean, Lexus did it, and we're growing used to that.
- That's true.
- With the Spindle grill. I mean, there was a lot of negative sentiment toward that when it first started.
- To be fair, I've always liked the Lexus grill. I think, hey, it's all right. They're going for it.
- You know, I have two.
- It's fine.
- So I think what it is, is that, I think, what probably their customers want is they want to shout to everybody, look, I have a BMW. Look at that grill. It's so big. It's so obviously a BMW. I mean, that's what's happened with the X7 and the redesigned 7 series. They've got gigantic kidneys.
- I really like those. I really like--
- Those are growing on me. I kind of like them too.
- I still hate it on the 7 series, but I don't mind it on the X7. Because I think the X7 has enough mass there that they can kind of pull it off.
- For sure.
- But they just slapped the giant grill on the existing 7 series.
- Without downsizing it to the car.
- Yeah, it kind of looks-- it looks really front heavy. And it just doesn't work there. It needs to be-- still, you can make it bigger. But you still got to make sure it's proportional to the rest of the car.
- Yeah, I think they could have gone a little more retro here with these sort of upright kidney grills. Because like you guys have both said, there are some great grills in their history. They could have been a little more subtle. Maybe a little more retro would've been the right play, but to me, this isn't working.
I'm trying to pull together like a hits and miss column here. That's a miss to me. It's just sort of like, you know, you pick a sports team. They change their logo. You know, if you change that logo and it's an iconic one, you got to get it right. And I sort of feel like BMW is kind of playing with fire here in the last few years with their grills, with like, hey, it's great you're willing to experiment.
And definitely, car design lately has gotten, I think, blinky and in your face any time since like the '60s, maybe even the '50s with like fins and grills. I mean, they're going for it, but I don't know. I think the Concept 4 should stay the Concept 4 or the past.
- Especially in the luxury market, like it is all about telling everybody that you're rich and look at this fancy car that I have.
- I mean, almost all of the brands are now offering illuminated badges on the front. BMW now has an illuminated grill, because those twin kidneys are like, that's their badge. That's their signature.
- I like it on a Mercedes, though. I love seeing that lit star--
- I do too.
- --coming down the street. I think that looks so elegant.
- I'm mixed.
- I actually saw an Infinity with a light up badge once. That was kind of weird to see.
- Yeah, I don't know.
- Yeah, I'm kind of mixed. I'm definitely of the opinion that like, I'm OK with extra lighting like that as long as it doesn't like distract or as long as it works with the actual design of the car. Like a car that I forgot actually had some grill illumination was the Mazda 6. You could buy this dealer add on that would add this little faint glow around the chrome strip that goes underneath the grill.
- Yeah, that's a neat look.
- Yeah, it's very subtle. It's very nice. It's like, that I can get behind. Because that augments and bolsters the design. It's not just to like, look at the money I have. It's like actually a design piece.
- Now sticking with BMW, but going away from the high vis to the opposite, did you guys see the Vantablack X6?
- No, no, I didn't see it.
- Well, remember, Joel, you and I were talking about it recently, like has anyone made a Vantablack car? Vantablack is this black color that was created by some lab that absorbs like 99.96% of light. So it just reflects nothing.
- Basically, it's got all these little carbon nanotubes of paint.
- Yeah.
- And when the light goes in there, it starts bouncing off of all these tubes, and it never bounces back out. It's just stuck in there.
- That's a sweet car, I think. That's very cool.
- Yeah, I've been waiting for a car to have this. It's just so dark. It looks like a black hole driving around, and all you really see is the grill and some reflection off the windows and the lights. But that grill stands out quite a bit, and then the rest of the car, you can't really see the curves. As it says in our title, it almost looks two dimensional.
- Well, looking at the photos, it looks like somebody Photoshoped it. They just went in and erased all of the metal parts, and left all the glass, and the lights, and things. It looks really, really weird, but I've seen some videos and walk arounds. And it really does look like that.
I mean, because the other thing is these are pressed photos, and they're really carefully tailored and edited to make sure that it looks the best as possible. So it does look like somebody may have messed with it, but it really is that black. It's really weird.
- I'm so intrigued by this paint. Hyundai at the Olympics-- was the last year or two years ago? In Korea, they had a building, and they had a wall that was painted in this Vantablack. I saw it in person.
It was just so dark. It's unbelievably dark. It looks as if there's a vacuum of space in that spot, like a complete void, like a black hole or something. Like something has destroyed that part of reality, and I just think it's look so cool.
- That is just an amazing way to describe a car. It looks like someone destroyed that part of reality that you're driving in. You know what? The first place I actually saw this car was in this newsletter I read on-- it's like a tech kind of economist website. They're very insidery, and they covered this car.
And I thought to myself, wow, this must be a big deal. And it's really just been getting a lot of pickup, like CNN did a kind of feature on it. Just places you wouldn't expect to really dive this deeply into a car like this, so I think that's cool. One more thought on a Concept X4.
- Sure.
- So if you're a sports fan, Google Michigan State jerseys from last weekend, and they're horrible. That to me is the analogy for what the concept for it looks like. They were just lit on social media. Everybody hated them. They were neon, so yeah. Anyways, what else should we talk about for Frankfurt?
- We should talk about Volkswagen ID.3.
- We should.
- Yeah.
- And I think we may not have jumped on it right away just because it does pretty much look like the concept that came out a few years ago, but it's production now. This is the production car, and it's going to have three different ranges. And the maximum range is going to be over 340 miles. It's remarkable.
- Yeah, I really like it. I think it was well executed from sort of beginning to end by Volkswagen from concept to this production car we see now. I'd totally buy it. It's about the same size as a Golf, right?
- Yeah.
- A little bit longer wheelbase. That sounds fun to me.
- And it's rear drive.
- Yeah, and it's pretty powerful too.
- Yeah, like 200 horsepower, 227 pound feet of torque. It's just a little bit less powerful than a GTI, but again, it's rear drive and instant on torque.
- It sounds super fun. I think it looks great. Volkswagen really brought it to the Frankfurt Motor Show as they always do. But I think as they kind of really move past Dieselgate, they're obsessively electric. I mean, right down to those rumors we heard about them maybe buying Tesla, which they promptly denied, but they're serious about electric They're a company that has a ton of engineering resources, a lot of just flat out resources, a lot of money.
- And now in partnership with Ford.
- Yeah, I mean, these guys could move the industry forward.
- Yeah.
- Cars like this are a great way to do it.
- And this car, I mean, the power, the range, the price is actually pretty reasonable too. I think it's going to be around 30,000 euros, which is roughly $30,000 give or take based on exchange rates. Like this shows the Volkswagen is serious about electric cars.
- Yeah.
- And there's more coming. There's a crossover coming. That will be the first ID version that we get in the US, and of course, there's the retro bus that's coming up.
- I can't wait to see what they do with that, and I hope they-- if they can do what they did with this ID.3 from sort of beginning end and apply that same level of, I guess, diligence and dedication to the core of what that concept was, the ID buzz is going to be really sweet.
- Yeah, no, I mean, Volkswagen is doing a good job of making electric seem like something fun and special, which other companies, like Chevy, for example, I think, are still kind of treating it like this science go to the moon experiment. Like the Bolt's great. Oddly, I haven't heard much about the Bolt lately. It seems like they should be promoting it.
- I mean, they got more range in this past month, which is nice.
- Yeah, and they're working on sort of a next gen version based on the same platform before they switch their next EV platform. So yeah, there's going to be something else coming pretty soon from the Bolt family before there's a big change. But yeah, they've been kind of quiet about it lately.
- Yeah, anyway, my point being is Volkswagen is kind of like, no, you want to drive an electric car.
- Yes, they do.
- Here it is. We have all these different shapes and sizes. John does. I do too.
- All right, I've got to be honest though. It's like Volkswagen really needs to revive the Beetle on this. I mean--
- Yeah, you're totally right.
- Rear motor, rear drive, like it is just begging to be a Beetle again.
- I know. Absolutely, 100%. I said that when they killed off the Beetle. In 10 years, we're going to this nameplate revived as an EV, and I hope they do.
- And I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm excited about the bus. But it's like, guys, come on, you should bring the Beetle back again.
- So other news. I like the Lamborghini Sian. That's electric.
- Yeah, that's it.
- Sort of hybrid, I should say.
- Yeah.
- We talked about that a little bit last week.
- Yeah, and it's really--
- V12 with hybrid power, so I think that's cool.
- Yeah, it uses super capacitors for--
- That's an awesome word.
- Which charges very quickly, and more importantly here, discharges very quickly. So just immediate boost of power delivered very quickly and very potently.
- So electric range is not exactly a focus with this thing.
- No, not at all. This is not an efficiency play one bit. This is 100% performance, and I like that they're trying something new. Not a lot of people are doing super capacitors in their electrification. There's one Japanese company that's building a supercar that is powered by super capacitors. I forget what it's called.
- Oh yeah, the--
- We've written--
- Like owl spark or spark owl.
- Aspark, Aspark.
- Yes, Aspark Owl, that's it. Yeah, I was at the-- that was actually at the last Frankfurt show. And I was at the unveiling for that.
- And that's powered by super capacitors, I believe, and I've seen a couple of videos where they just show acceleration tests. It just leaps into light speed.
- Yeah, that's actually another car that we haven't heard much about lately.
- The problem with super capacitors is you can't really store energy very well for long periods of time. Batteries are better at that. But if you really want to discharge it quickly, super capacitors are going to give you that boost.
- Ferrari convertibles, kind of what we expected. They look good. Nothing too shocking
- I mean, the FA Spider is literally exactly the same as the coupe except it's got a convertible top. Like, it's the exact same engine, exact same power. It's a little heavier because of the top, and so it's a little bit slower like, to maximum top speed.
[LAUGHING]
- Definitely.
- They look good. Nothing too exciting.
- Which is weird to say about a Ferrari, but yeah, it is sort of an understated--
- I mean, it's just that it was-- it's 100% expected. It's like, of course this was coming out.
- It's like the Fall European auto show. They already showed-- Geneva is generally where they show the XYZ car, and then the following Fall, here's the convertible, or the following year in the Fall, the convertible. That's just how they roll. That's a good thing.
Yeah, I mean, overall, very good show. This is actually the first Frankfurt-- I haven't been since-- when was I there? I was there in '15. And this is the first time that I've actually kind of missed going, because I've gone several times, like '15, '13, and '11-- it's every other year, by the way. It's a lot of work. You walk--
- Oh my god.
- --so far, and it's usually hot.
- Yeah. Joel and I were there two years ago and man, just the amount of steps I took was incredible.
- Your phone will say seven miles at the end of the day.
- It takes you about 20 minutes to walk from end to end of that convention center. And I mean, each of the German automakers gets one big convention hall. The Mercedes one was three stories tall the last time I was there. And I mean, like this place was so big there were two media centers when I went last, and everybody just went into the one that was close to the entrance.
It wasn't until halfway through the day that I'd gotten all the way to the other end of the convention center, over where BMW was. I was just wandering around and I stumbled across the other one. I think I was the first one that entire day to find it because all the lights were out, there wasn't a soul in sight, and all the breakfast food was still there.
- Jackpot!
- OK.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
- It was it was weird. It was like finding a lost city.
- The pretzels with the butter, cut in half with the butter in the middle.
- Yup. It was all still there.
- I will say this at the Geneva Motor Show. They used to-- I think they've finally ironed this out. There would be like, one person with a-- it wasn't an espresso machine-- it might have been. Like, one person with one machine making tiny espresso shots. So like literally it's 7:00 AM, Geneva. Everybody was out the night before. Like, everybody wants their coffee and it's like, sorry. One person giving out espresso shots that are being made to order is taking forever.
- I've also noticed that with the European shows there's copious amounts of beer--
- Oh, yeah.
- But very little water, and so I'm like other things for actual rehydration.
- European auto shows are not for the faint of heart, let's put it that way. But yeah, check out all of our coverage. It was another great year for that. We've got some mega-galleries going up from our ace snapper, Drew Phillips, who wasn't there, but sort of gathered up what he could. So lots of cool things.
Editor's picks will be coming out probably by the time you are listening to this. We're recording this on Wednesday afternoon. It was raining here in Detroit. Probably by the time you hear this the editor's picks will be up. That's always fun. That helps you kind of sort out what the best in show was.
So how about we talk about what we've been driving? We had some cool things in the fleet the last week or so. We'll start off with the Super Duty. This thing is-- it had the Power Stroke diesel. It was huge. It was a monstrous truck.
I enjoyed it. I think what's nice about a big truck like this with this kind of big cabin is it's a legit almost like an SUV with a bed. I put my kid's car seat in there, plenty of room. It-- I think big trucks, even though they're bigger than they've ever been, I think they handle, they steer, they stop in a way more civilized manner than they ever have.
So you're not really intimidated, plus a 250, that kind of class I don't think is crazy intimidating to drive. Like a Ram Power Wagon, it's not that big a deal. You can drive it. It's not that much bigger than a Ram 1500. So yeah. I liked it. It's fun. I didn't do any super duty things with it. If there was ever a time to get some mulch, this would have been it.
- No, it would've been when we had that--
- Oh, the dump truck!
- Yeah.
- Yeah, I could have mulched my whole yard.
[LAUGHING]
I mean, Reese did.
- Yeah.
- Reese did, yeah. So, I don't know. You guys like it?
- Yeah, I enjoyed it, and I love diesel full-size pickups. That's one of my favorite things about them is just the way those engines pull. These trucks weigh like 6,000 or more pounds, and yet they just take off with these diesel engines. It's effortless, and it just keeps pulling and pulling the longer you stay in it. It's a weird, eerie feeling, and it's a lot of fun.
Yeah, it's-- and the thing that I've always-- I've had a hard time putting my finger exactly on it is why driving these giant trucks are so fun. Because the thing is I own a Miata. I love small, light, nimble little things, but I love driving giant trucks and I'm not entirely sure why, and I was curious what your thoughts might be on that.
- Man, I agree with you, and it's one of the weird things because I'm not really a truck guy, despite my videos that I've made. But--
- Do you like trucks?
[ALL LAUGHING]
- I-- it's something-- I mean, like-- I don't really care too much when there's an F-150 in the office or something like that. It's just like, OK, cool. But when there's something like this and I drive it, it's-- yeah, it's downright fun. You're bouncing down the road, you're way up high. I don't know what it is, but it seems to be pretty universal.
And you know, little boys and stuff love trucks, but this is-- this goes beyond that. All my friends, male or female, they all want-- [INAUDIBLE] when I have one these trucks, they're just like, I want to-- I wish I could drive that! You know? Because they're just fun.
- It's a very deep, deeply-rooted intrinsic--
- Yeah.
- --I think people just do like big trucks. Boys, girls, whatever, you name it. It's-- my son, who's 19 months, plays with trucks, and he loves big trucks. He calls them b-buzz and whenever he sees a big truck like this, he's like, yeah, he needs to stand in it and pretend to drive it. I think just they appeal to the kid in all of us.
I think it also helps, too, if you don't have to use them for maybe their intended purpose, like work. If you need to use a work truck for work, it becomes a tool. If it's like, you get to drive this thing for fun, well, hey, it's like, this toy! You know? So I think maybe that's where some of it comes into.
- It's a much different experience than your typical daily drive. Unless you own one, but-- because it's just-- I think that for me it's how high I am, and I can just see above all the traffic, and I feel like I could drive over a building. And yeah, that's just fun.
- Yeah, me too. I think that's it. It's the height and then the fact that so many of these big trucks are so well-equipped these days that it's like you're driving like the lifted S-class or something. That's an exaggeration, but they're very nice trucks.
- I always feel a little guilty, though, and just because I know how much gas I'm using when I'm driving them. I always have to do something to atone for it.
- Plant a tree when you drive your F-250 home.
- [LAUGHING]
Yeah. And actually I think-- thinking about it, I think someone else about large trucks is that I think there's actually a fair amount of driver engagement with it, too. And it's a different one than a light manual sports car because it's big enough that you're having to think just a little bit more about where you're maneuvering--
- Yeah.
- --and thinking about where it is. The steering is really heavy because it's a really heavy truck, and so having to work just a little bit more for doing the steering, and you usually have to steer a lot because it's a really slow steering ratio.
So I think I may also enjoy just the fact that you have to be a little bit more conscientious and involved, and I enjoy driver involvement. I like something that makes me a part of it. And also the fact that they are much more refined now, but there's still a little bit of kinda bumpiness to it and sort of, like, it-- it's very experiential. And also, like I said, I mean, diesel engines are awesome.
- Yeah.
- They're fun.
- Definitely.
- Yeah, this one in particular, 450 horsepower, 935 pound feet of torque. And then when you look at some of the other heavy-duty trucks out there, like the Ram diesel with-- was it 1,000 horsepower?
- Yeah, and that's all stock. I mean--
- That's crazy.
- --you could--
- I mean-- I'm sorry. Not 1,000 horsepower, 1,000 pound feet.
- Right, right. And--
- It's just insane.
- --the thing is, you can make them so much more powerful and torquey. If you want to get lost down a rabbit hole, look into modified diesel trucks. They run fast at the drag strip, and I've seen them making 2,000 pound feet to 3,000 pound feet of torque, modified ones. It's insane.
- [LAUGHING]
Yeah, I think for me it's that they are a little bit more work to drive, they are enormous, they are kind of jouncy and bouncy, which is fun. But I think it's also very rewarding. When you've worked to dial in all that input, steer it, yeah. It's fun. You lay on the gas and that diesel really gets going, I mean, it's good times.
- I think-- this actually brings me to another kind of random tangent. We did a story on this about some company is like, making new Excursions or refurbishing Excursions. If you remember, the Excursion was essentially an F-250 with-- built sort of an SUV build out on it. I kind of would argue maybe they should special-order these, but I bet you Ford could sell the Excursion right now.
- I mean, they kind of do with the Expedition Max. Is it the long wheelbase--
- Is that what they originally called the Expedition? Max?
- I think so.
- Yeah.
- I mean, that effectively is.
- It is. You're right.
- Well, I mean, it's not the-- it's not a heavy-duty chassis. It's more like the F-150 chassis, but it's about the same size at this point.
- I think that's probably the smart way to do it is they could still sell it without having the baggage of the Excursion name. Because frankly, you do that and "Autoblog Green's" gonna start coming after you. But yeah, I mean--
- I'll sic my dog on you.
- Right, yeah, yeah.
- My tiny little Boston terrier.
- The Boston terrier. I don't know, I think there could be a market for the Excursion. It's totally random. I was even thinking of doing a Twitter poll and maybe doing a column. These are the crazy ramblings of what goes through my head. But I don't know. [INAUDIBLE]
- I don't think you're wrong.
- I think they probably could sell-- I don't think they could sell them long-term, but I bet they could get a decent one to three-year run out of it.
- Yeah, at least until gas prices go crazy and-- yeah.
- But if gas prices get too expensive to drive it, you can just live in it. I mean, it's big enough.
- Right. You don't need an RV.
- It probably does have about the same square footage as a tiny home.
- Yeah, which always fascinates me. I always love cars that are big enough that I can sleep in it overnight and have room for a bunch of stuff and my dogs. And I don't even have to drive it. Just being in it, putting down all the seats, and getting back there, it makes me feel like a kid.
- The profits would be there. I mean, hey, they've already paid for the chassis, it's amortized, as I butcher that word. But it's paid for, so anyways, that's a total crazy tangent. Let's talk about a car that does exist, the Lexus GS F.
- Yeah.
- And like John, this is one that I love it to death, but I also feel a little bit guilty driving it.
[ALL LAUGHING]
- Why do you feel guilty?
- Well, I really, really, really love this car. It handles amazingly well for a midsize luxury car. It feels light and nimble and it'll take corners sharp and fast. And the V8 is so good. The Lexus 5-liter V8 is a gem. It sounds amazing and it's got good power. It's really smooth and responsive.
But the thing is, I love driving it so much, and every [INAUDIBLE] when I got out of it was like, man, I really want a V8 car. And I was like, man, I really would feel guilty driving something that doesn't get better than 25, tops.
- That's a very--
- And under 20 in town.
- --that's very noble of you to have that feeling, but I don't know. I think it's awesome.
- No, I love it. I really do.
- There's so much about this-- about this one that we have. It's got that matte gray paint. It's got that really cool blue interior with some sort of microsuede. I don't know if it's Alcantara brand or whatever, but microsuede on the dash. Not on the wheels, though, which is nice. That was a blue leather.
- Mm-hmm.
- But yeah, it was just-- it looks amazing. It drives really well. It's a riot to drive. It's fast, it sounds great.
- And when you don't want to drive it fast, it's just so smooth and gentle. And you just roll on a little bit of power and just let it kind of burble away and it's like, oh, it's so good.
- Lexus has come a long way into making me actually care about their cars again in recent years.
- That's a really good way to put it, actually.
- I used to be bored by them.
- Yeah. They were boring.
- Yeah.
- They were super boring.
- And now they're-- they've-- they're doing a lot in terms of performance, in terms of just a really special driving feel, and then the craftsmanship is been just crazy. The attention to detail in these cars in the higher end sports cars--
- And Lexus interiors are excellent.
- They're so good!
- This one I am 100% in love with. I love the blue everywhere, especially the blue steering wheel. It's a lot of fun.
- Yeah.
- Not on board with the matte black paint--
- Yeah.
- It looks good, but I would hate to live with it--
- No, yeah. I agree.
- --takes very special care to keep it clean.
- I agree 100%. I could never do matte paint unless it was like, it's just a car I spray painted, some junker that I was never gonna touch again.
- [LAUGHING]
Right.
- Yeah, very cool, and I think this is a nice entry point for a certain type of buyer who wants this kind of performance, and then might be attracted-- maybe he or she decides they want to look at more of some of the Lexus crossovers. Maybe they look at the RC or something. I think-- I would not have said this a few years ago, but I think the whole GS line is actually really pulling its weight with Lexus.
- Yeah. Yeah, I definitely would have said that back in 2010.
[LAUGHING]
- Yeah, totally. Cool. So that's the GSF, a very enjoyable car.
Let's talk briefly about the BMW X3, which we have in the fleet right now. It's-- I just took it-- I've been putting a lot of around-town miles on it. It's got the two point-- the two-liter twin turbo inline 4, 248 horsepower, 258 pound feet of torque. I thought it felt pretty quick. It's surprisingly quick.
A couple of times I saw the police, and I was like, wow, I'm doing 10 over. Let's hope he just doesn't notice this guy in a white crossover, and I kind of blend into the surroundings. But yeah, I think it's a pretty good-- for its class, this is a pretty good driving crossover.
- Yeah, it's not bad. I-- the four-cylinder is great. I've actually been experiencing that four-cylinder in a few different versions. I've driven the X4 and also the Z4, and it feels way more potent than the numbers say. [INAUDIBLE] it's really, really responsive, great torque. It's good enough that it would be hard to say that you need to get the six-cylinder. Like, this is more than enough.
It's a really good little engine. It even sounds good. The X4 that we had like a week or so ago with the exact same engine had the M Sport exhaust or whatever. It sounded really good. It had a really nice little snarl to it. It's a great engine. And the transmission is good, too.
- Eight-speed automatic, yeah. I mean, zero to 60 in six seconds, which honestly, that seems slow for how quick the car feels.
- Yeah.
- I know I'm-- I almost don't think we're exaggerating because in some ways-- you know, you get in a sports car and if it doesn't rip your head off, you're like, oh. It's a disappointment. You know? This thing, you get in there and it's like, well, you're not expecting that much. But then, boom, hit the floor and away you go. And yeah, great power train. I guess we shouldn't be surprised. BMW power trains have been quite good.
Interior is a little tight for me. I thought-- I had a car seat in there and it was pretty tight. That was a little disappointing. Good size cargo hold, though. I think this is like, when you look at the X3 and the X4, these to me are young professional cars at this point. They're like, people don't buy small sedans much anymore. People don't buy sedans much-- as much anymore. At least that's sort of the narrative, if you will.
It's like, if you're sort of a yuppie, or someone who's maybe working their second job, you're making a nice paycheck, you're married but you don't have kids. Or maybe you have one kid and you're willing to kind of shoehorn that car seat in there, OK. This might be your vehicle. I still think it's a little small for people with true family life, but it's a very nice vehicle, and I'm sure they're selling plenty of them because people like crossovers. People like BMW crossovers. Yeah?
- I do have a couple of key gripes, though, and one of them is I don't like the steering. It feels like so many other BMWs now that it just feels completely dead.
- Yeah.
- Like, you can't feel anything.
- It's numb. It's very numb.
- And it's disappointing because it does have a good chassis. It handles pretty well. And actually, I've got the same complaint with the Z4. I don't know. I don't know what it is with BMW that they can't get this right anymore.
The other thing is I'm just not impressed with the interior. It's fine, and if you like BMWs and BMW interiors, you're going to be happy with it. But it doesn't wow you, and that's kind of an issue when Mercedes and Audi and Volvo all have amazing interiors that--
- Yeah, in that segment--
- --like, beautiful materials, very interesting designs that feel airy and special and unique. BMW just kind of feels like the same BMW interior it's been around for like 30 years, and the materials don't seem all that great. It's a lot of plastics, good plastics, but plastics, and they don't look very interesting. [INAUDIBLE]
- And all the shapes and geometry are the same.
- Yeah.
- I've been having a lot of trouble getting excited about BMW's smaller crossovers, and that was the case with all their crossovers for a while, until the new X5 came out, and that one got my attention. I liked it quite a bit, except for the steering. The steering is really bad. And then the X7, I really liked that. But yeah, I just can't get excited about the X1, X2, X3, X4.
- I think the X7 might be my favorite BMW SUV right now, which is kind of random statement--
- Yeah, I agree. No, yeah, I 100% agree with you.
- Yeah.
- I've got a soft spot for the X2 because I think it looks kinda cool and--
- It does look cool. I like it.
- It's basically a big Mini, so it does-- it is kind of fun to drive.
- It looks kind of [INAUDIBLE] too, I think.
- Yeah. But I-- but the X7 is probably the nicest right now, which I guess it should be.
- It should be, but it's also, I think, the most appealing, and that's not always the case with-- bigger and more expensive doesn't necessarily mean better.
- Yeah.
- But-- so that's the X3. How about we spend some money?
- Yeah, let's do it.
- All right, so this one is a question from the r/cars section of Reddit where they ask questions about what they should buy. So this writer is looking for a solid daily driver. He has a wife and two kids in car seats. Here are the requirements.
Enough space to fit all four comfortably, cargo space is not critical because they also have a Toyota Highlander. Four doors, roof rack compatible, easy maintenance, something he could work on, or parts and labor are not outrageous, preferably under $15,000, might go as high as $20,000. Doesn't matter new or used, but admittedly it's probably got to be used for that kind of money. Preferably under 50,000 miles if used. That's pretty reasonable. The make and model are not important.
So we've got some parameters. We've got some specifics, but also not a lot of I'd say true brand loyalty. Not a lot of barriers here. So let's lead off with you, John.
- OK. I put a little thought into this, and my answer is not very exciting, but it doesn't look like that's important to this person. I think the 2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport does a lot of these things well. It's got room for a couple of kids. You can get it between $15,000 and $20,000 with pretty low miles still. I'm not-- it won JD Powers' 2019 Dependability Award for the segment, and I'm not sure how easy it is to work on, but you can get--
- You probably wouldn't have to do too much work on it.
- --you can get it certified preowned, with whatever's left on the five-year, 60,000 mile warranty, and then the 10-year, 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. So you won't have to work on it because they can just do it for you. Not the most exciting car, but you get a lot of-- I feel like you get a lot of content for your money in Hyundais. Very comfortable and yeah, it checks the boxes, and yeah. Reliable.
- Really good choice. Very well-thought-out, too, I must say. Joel, what do you think?
- Well, I wish this guy was a little bit more specific about what he wants. It sounds like literally as long as this thing runs and has four doors, he's fine with it. But--
- We gotta earn our money, then.
- Yeah. I guess I would recommend like, a used Mazda 3. Rock solid reliability, really fuel efficient, they drive great. You can get a hatchback if you want more space. Yeah, and they're fairly affordable. Like, that's-- it's a really good car.
- It is.
- And it's one that people maybe don't always think of. I mean, the easy answer here would be say, go to a Honda or Toyota dealer and tell them your budget, and they'll find you a version of their cars and that'll work for them.
- So that would have-- that is basically my answer is assume-- since he's got two kids, I'm thinking Accord. Find a good Honda Accord. You could get car seats in there. It's a little tight, but since they've got the Highlander, that's-- that could be the family car, if you will. Go with, like a late-model Accord. See-- find the nicest one you could get, the newest one you could get. Look online and that car will probably run for a very long time. Let's put it that way.
So I like John's answer, though, because that does get them into this other SUV that maybe at some point you decide you don't need the Highlander. So you could-- you probably would be upgrading with all the features you could get on a Hyundai like that, but I'm sticking with the Accord. I think you can't go wrong with it, let me put it that way. Is it the funnest choice? Absolutely not, but a Mazda 3 would be a great, fun car to drive, too. Be a little tight, but fun car.
- Yeah, but you could go used Mazda 6. Almost the same thing, but bigger. They have similar engines, it's just as reliable, really good to drive.
- And he says roof rack compatible, but nowadays that's pretty much anything. You can just get a system installed.
- Yeah.
- Cool. Well, I think we'll leave it there. Hey, write us in. You know, Reddit user, you probably wouldn't expect to be featured on the "Autoblog Podcast," but we like to spend people's money and hey, every now and then we see a cool one on there and we want to jump in.
So that's it for this week. Be safe out there. Send us your Spend My Money, reach out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, everywhere you can find "Autoblog" or the "Autoblog Podcast." If you like the work we do on the show, please give us a five-star rating on iTunes. We'll see you next time.
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