Filed under: Car Buying, Government/Legal, UAW/Unions
UAW head says that unions aren't to blame for Detroit's problems
Ron Gettelfinger's basically saying "it's not our fault" when discussing the state of Detroit's automakers. Rather than admit that the UAW's plum labor agreements and contentious negotiations have contributed to the current gloomy situation, the United Auto Workers head man says that the economic downturn is to blame for everything, and that Congress should approve loans to the auto industry, saying "We cannot afford to...see this industry collapse." You've got to love that black and white logic. The current state of the economy, and in turn the automakers' pain, are both closely related, and separate issues at the same time. Boosting sales numbers for the last decade by financing anyone who filled out some nominal paperwork was probably not such a hot idea, but it kept the lines running, putting off layoffs even though it meant overproducing. An automaker propping up its sales to avoid strife with its labor union? Why, that sounds like it's at least partially the UAW's doing; and now those chickens have come home to roost as easy credit has dried up. Bad management and uncompetitive products from domestic automakers is pretty much the story of the last 35 years, and that's something the auto industry in the United States is certainly responsible for. Only now, when they're on the brink of massive failure, are American cars truly competitive with the import competition that's been dogging them for 25-plus years. It's certainly true that current economic forces unrelated to the automotive business have a large role to play in this ongoing saga, but if a bailout plan is passed, will it really help?
Consumer confidence is at record lows, and at a time when people aren't buying household widgets, is it really conceivable that they could be enticed into a big-ticket automotive purchase from a carmaker that may or may not soon file for bankruptcy? All the dire predictions about how the auto industry cannot be allowed to fail amount to so much hot air; even if we pump federal dollars into the industry, if nobody's buying, it could still fail. If that happens, there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, but it's not an impossibility. If one of the Detroit automakers goes down, then what? The UAW will have to find some other industry to choke, that's for sure.
[Source: Breitbart.com]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
TigerMil 2:17PM (11/16/2008)
Yeah...the union bosses are sitting pretty and fat with guaranteed paychecks for running their mouths. Still, the automakers problems are also due to a$$hole US dealers...why is it that US dealers can sell foreign cars and treat customers right but US dealers sell US cars as tin and treat customers like idiots? I haven't been in a US dealership since 1973....well, except to look at Corvettes, and every time I get a ration from some hounds-tooth suited salesman stuck on the floor...test drive? KMA! Yet I can buy any BMW I want and the BMW guys will happily leave me the transmitter for an M6 and say 'Bring it back when you're done."
It's all about how you treat the customer...GM could learn a lot from Lexus. Cadillac is getting there, but even there, they're not Lexus.
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knifetramp 3:43PM (11/16/2008)
I felt the same way... except in reverse. The BMW dealer didn't want to let me drive their convertible M3. Conversely, the local Chevrolet dealer simply handed me the tranmitter to a yellow ZO6 - no paperwork, no taking a DNA sample, nothing. I bought the ZO6 and won't be looking for a BMW any time soon.
That One Person 4:46PM (11/16/2008)
Uh yeah, I have to agree with knife on this one. I went to a Chevy dealer three years ago to look for a car with a friend. The sales person was nice and actually knew something about cars. They didn't really have what my friend was looking for (as far as used cars go). Out of curiosity, I asked if I could test drive a Vette. The guy asked for my license (to make a copy...every dealer does this), got a dealer plate and handed me the keys. I was surprised.
Now fast forward to this past summer and I had to pull teeth just to test drive a Camry (to see what the hype was all about). The local Toyota dealer also sells Hyundai, Kia and Honda vehicles. So I decided to test drive a couple cars from each company. The sales guy I got wasn't rude but he wasn't really nice either. I ended up getting the guy to let me test drive a couple Tundras, an Accord, a Corolla and a Civic.
And the service dept. there is a complete joke.
InTheBiz 4:18PM (11/16/2008)
I run three foriegn car franchises. I also have worked in domestic franchises for over 10 ears. Your comments are absurd. You, sir, are the complete a**hole!
Come visit a Toyota delaership in the Baltimore/Washington Metro area. The service is pathetic. I know, I work for a Toyota dealer. Our Bimmer store is okay, but just okay. But Toyota stores are a joke. No one speaks English. The service is pure crap. That is every Toyota/Honda store in the Mid-Atlantic. I can assure your, Toyota does not give two s#*ts about your happiness.
I am not advocating that the domestics do much better, but to state that dealerships who sell Japanese products treat you better is flat out wrong.
As far as BMW customers go? The only differnece between a porcupine and a BMW owner is the the porcupine has it's pricks on the outside!
Oh, and on Lexus? Sheehy Lexus treats their customers better than anyone in the mid-Atlantic region. They also average about 5-6k per copy of front end gross. The industry average has dipped below $500 per car. Domestics could be much less.
You get what you pay for.
happy_penguin 4:40PM (11/16/2008)
if you haven't been in a "US dealer" since 1973 you are not someone who can form a proper opinion on domestic American car dealers. And for this malformed opinion you get highly ranked?
Apparently ignorance runs high around here. Go ahead, y'all know where the thumbs down is. :rolleyes:
Frank 5:56PM (11/16/2008)
Did you know the largest Viagra customer in the world is GM? They buy over 1.4 million dollars in viagra a year. Lol, and the union boss said its not their fault. Less hard ons more work.
Jrejre 6:16PM (11/16/2008)
Forming an opinion about an entire company based on experiences at a dealership is a horrible idea. Example:
I went in to a nissan dealer, asked to test drive an altima coupe. Guy said I needed to secure financing before I could take a test drive! I said I wouldn't be financing and if I did I'd have a cosigner since the car wouldn't be in my name. He said maybe I should come back to test drive with the cosigner. I said no thanks, I'll buy somewhere else.
I headed acrossed the street to the mazda dealer which happens to be owned by the same guy who owns the Nissan dealer. Sales guy lets me test drive an rx8 no questions asked. Not to mention I told him straight up I probably wouldn't be buying a car for 3-4 months!
sbessette91 8:08PM (11/16/2008)
I am what they like to call a "Ford Fan Boy," but I will admit that the best dealership experience I have ever had was at a Lexus dealer in Houston, Texas. Second to that would have to be Cadillac. For average cars, it depends on the dealership. I have been to a Toyota dealership where the salesman was fresh off the boat from Somalia and another where I was treated like royalty. Same with Ford, same with Chevy. I, personally however, have never had a pleasant experience at a Nissan or a Honda dealership.
k.w.a 10:47PM (11/16/2008)
I've never set foot in an American car dealership except for my Uncle's Ford dealership so i cant really speak on them... however i must say they should really follow the steps of Toyota, Honda, and Nissan if they want to make a sale. Whenever I go to those dealerships they give me a very homely feel, like i've known them my whole life. The workforce is very diverse, everyone's friendly, laid back, and they make jokes to make people feel comfortable.
I usually buy european cars and their service is not as good. Volvo is nice once they get to know you and BMW/Mercedes dealers won't even look at you until you invite yourself to their desk and open your checkbook. Most European cars sell themselves so I guess the dealers don't have to be nice...even though im sure it wouldn't hurt if they learned how to say "hello".
I feel sorry for GM because their cars actually are a lot better; they just need time to rebuild their reputation. What the dealers need to do (if they haven't already) is let people get in their cars and try them out; then give them incentives.. and be friendly intead of pushy or arrogant
shane 11:53PM (11/16/2008)
Seems to me that you wouldnt buy an american anything anyway. Losers like you believe the medias hype about everything. You come across as a person who actually is convinced that the crap that comes out of your mouth is true. Do some research, Be American buy American
Rocketboy 8:34AM (11/17/2008)
The dealers in my area generally suck. Regardless of what brand of car they are selling. They make of the car has nothing to do with the dealer. Case in point, to take a test drive at my local Ford dealership, they require you to get a credit check. At my BMW dealership, a photocopy of you license, and the keys are all yours.
Daniel 3:42PM (11/17/2008)
The biggest problem for the Big 3 is "Uninspired Product" that is thoroughly underwhelming.
John Metcalf 4:46PM (11/19/2008)
Gotta go with Daniel on this one. Give me product I'd buy and I'd get a Ford, Chevy or Dodge with no problem. I don't like paying a premium for Japanese stuff.
Red 2:17PM (11/16/2008)
I live in Alabama and we have numerous foreign auto companies doing business here and they aren't having any big problems - they are not unionized. Stop and think about it, if you have a worker who is making $40.00 per hour or so, and can't be fired as he's in the union, why should he or she care about the quality of their work. I say Chapter 11, force the companies to restructure, take away the big bonus' and golden parachutes, and force the unions to cut their wages and benefits and see what happens. If the unions don't want to change, then to hell with it, let the company fail and we'll all drive foreign cars (what the hell, they're better anyway).
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TheRedMonkey 2:19PM (11/16/2008)
The union members also take three times as many breaks and their health care costs are much higher. For each GM car we buy we are paying $1400 for health care and for a Toyota is less than half that. The union destroyed the auto industry and if we let the industry fail and whomever picks up the pieces will hopefully give a big middle finger to the UAW.
Scott 3:37PM (11/16/2008)
Good points! Let's all strive to get middle class salaries for ourselves, while supporting businesses that pay low salaries and making them the benchmark.
Vig 4:08PM (11/16/2008)
I am sick of the health care cost argument. Of course, foreign companies health care costs are lower. In all their foreign plants health care costs are non-existent because it is supplied by the government. And keep in mind the government does so at a lower cost andwith better objective results.
This idiotic argument needs to be retired.
That One Person 4:45PM (11/16/2008)
If you think they can't be fired, think again. My dad happens to be a UAW member (he's an electrician) and several people he has worked with over the years have been fired from sleeping on the job to taking two to three hour lunch breaks.
The people you have to watch out are engineers. I frequent a local bar every Friday that is right down the street from Ford. I get in there at Noon and leave around 4pm or so (no I don't drink that early). There have been quite a few occasions where I have walked in behind a small group of engineers and they didn't leave until three or so hours later. And yes, they were wearing their ID badges. I happened to intern at Ford about six years ago and there were times me and some engineers would hang out at the cafeteria for a couple hours.
Monkey, if you knew anything about factory work, you would know that they are strict about their breaks. It's generally 15 minutes and if you aren't back there in 15 minutes, you get the boot. Plus, I didn't know UAW members got that many breaks. Last time I heard, it was two and a lunch.
Now do I support the UAW? No. But people have to realize that the members are doing their jobs...just like you and me. If you want to blame someone, blame management for pressuring the Big 3.
twonius 4:26PM (11/16/2008)
Its not that they're provided by the government. Its that they don't have the retiree base that the big 3 have because they've only been here less than 20 years.
Now the big 3 (and UAW) are partially to blame for this situation as for a long time they were offering early retirement instead of layoffs.
Vig 8:34PM (11/16/2008)
Good point, Twonius