In this week's Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor, Green, John Beltz Snyder, and Associate Editor Byron Hurd makes his ABP debut. This week, they start with the cars they've been driving: the Jaguar XE, Kia Seltos, Hyundai Venue and Ford Escape. Then they dig into the news, including an upcoming Cadillac EV, Lincoln and Chevy sedans and the Ford Bronco. Finally, they help a listener replace his Jeep Patriot in the Spend My Money segment.
TranscriptGREG MILIORE: Quip, makers of the Quip electric toothbrush, make good habits simple with a new brush head, floss refill, and toothpaste delivered every three months. Sets start at $25. Get your first refill free at getquip.com/auto. That's get q-u-i-p dot com slash auto.
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Welcome to another episode of the Auto Blog Podcast. I'm Greg Migliore. We've got a great show for you today. Joining me today in the studio, senior editor for all things Green, John Snyder. What's going on?
JOHN SNYDER: Hey, how's it going? I'm enjoying this sunny but brisk whether.
GREG MILIORE: I like it. It's cold, it's a good time to wear a heavy parka and walk the dog.
JOHN SNYDER: Or to fill the back of a taco up with firewood.
GREG MILIORE: Check out John on his Twitter handle. What's your Twitter?
JOHN SNYDER: It's J Belt Snyder.
GREG MILIORE: All right. So you've got to check it out. There's a great picture of him rolling around in the Tacoma TRD-- just TRD? Is what it is?
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MILIORE: It's a version of the TRD line up with a bunch of wood in the back. So check out John. Give him a follow on Twitter. You can follow all of us on Twitter. Also, somebody you can follow on Twitter is our new associate editor Byron Hurd. What's your Twitter handle?
BYRON HURD: Byron underscore AB.
GREG MILIORE: Awesome. Well welcome to Auto Blog. Byron's been on the team since, actually, December. A little bit about him. He actually worked from home for a couple weeks while relocating to the Detroit area. Now he's in the office. He's been here for about a month. Glad to have you here. Where were you before Auto Blog?
BYRON HURD: Previous to this, I was writing for Green Car Reports, Motor Authority, and The Car Connection, kind of on a cycle. And prior to that, Left Lane News was my full time outlet.
GREG MILIORE: Gotcha. And you've lived in the DC area, in Cleveland, and yeah, man. So you've likely seen the Byron Hurd byline multiple places, as you've probably read before if you read Auto Blog. Great. You probably read a few other sites. And again, Byron should be a familiar name and face to you. So we've got a great show for you today. We're going to talk about the Jaguar XE 300 R Dynamic S. That is a mouthful. I have to say quickly or I will get hoarse. But it's a very nice car. We're going to get into that.
The Kia Seltose, Byron's first press trip for Auto Blog. Tried the Seltos. It sounds like it should be a seltzer water, something that you might drink on a patio.
BYRON HURD: When you've got an upset tummy or something.
GREG MILIORE: Or maybe it's got a little bit of booze in it.
BYRON HURD: There you go.
GREG MILIORE: That's part of the seltzer water craze. The Hyundai Venue, which we've had in the office and is, essentially, genetically the same thing. And the Ford Escape. Spent little time in that thing. Then we'll get through the news. Cadillac is set to debut a new crossover for the New York Auto Show. We had an interesting piece on the site that I kind of want to break down. Essentially, Chevy and Lincoln dealers, among others, are sort of pushing back to the factory saying, hey, we kind of want sedans. So we'll say, we'll kind of weigh in if they're right.
And then the Bronco sport name is apparently a thing, and the Bronco itself is set to debut very soon. Who knows, there may be even leaks by the time you are listening to this podcast. Lastly, we will spend your money. We've got a great one, so you'll want to stick around for that. The writer comes from Vancouver, Canada. So hey, that alone, right there, you've got to listen.
BYRON HURD: Yeah, great place.
GREG MILIORE: Exactly. They have good beer up there. So let's jump right in. The Jaguar, it's a really nice car. Ours was bright red. I'll kind of like-- whenever it comes to Jaguars, I tend to like, obsess over the design. And I think that's sort of natural, just because it's a company that is so closely associated with, you know, groundbreaking design. You know, everything from the E type, to the modern F type, to a million different cars in between, they do a good job and they know how to make a car look good.
Originally, I kind of was underwhelmed with the XE's design. I thought, frankly, it looked a little bit like the Ford Fusion, and I put that in my drivers notes. And that's not even really a backhanded compliment so much as, I would say, a commentary on the fact that sedans are getting very creatively styled. Whether you want to pay 20, 30, 40, $50,000, cars have a lot of design language, a lot of flourishes. They could be more complicated. And frankly, I thought the XE was just a little bit underwhelming in that segment.
This one, it's trimmed up a little bit. It's definitely got, you know, a number of things going on. And frankly, it was bright red, almost like a Ferrari red. So to me, that kind of got the juices flowing. It's a good looking car. And it drove pretty well. I wouldn't say it's the best at segment. We touched on this a little bit last week about some of the things Mercedes and Alfa Romeo does that create, perhaps, a more dialed in experience. But the XE does a lot of things well. I essentially drove around town in this. Didn't do anything too aggressive. Put a car seat in there, which fit surprisingly well. It's pretty quiet in there, I thought. So that's sort of my mini review. I'm curious, John, what do you think?
JOHN SNYDER: You know, it's OK. I'm not in love with it. It's comfortable. It's stylish. I do like the way it looks. It's not, you know, sort of that out there, flashy Jaguar look that you might expect. It's a little understated for Jaguar, but it's still very attractive outside and in. But it's pretty dialed back. It's a pretty safe design. The driving, I really like the way it handled. It felt very sharp and pointy. Tended to the hurk and jerk quite a bit at highway speeds. It didn't want to, you know, stay pointed straight down the highway.
And the powertrain, I mean, it was quiet. Kind of dull, not very inspiring. Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of Jaguar sedans. Well, of the smaller ones. But that being said, I'm also not a big fan of like, the Alfa, the Julia.
GREG MILIORE: Well that's interesting, because I would say that those are two of my favorite vehicles in the segment.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, I'm pretty much--
GREG MILIORE: Not the best, but my favorite.
JOHN SNYDER: For me, it's the Germans, and specifically Mercedes and Audi. If I want something sort of really sleek and athletic looking, Mercedes. If I want something very conservative, yet clean and sturdy and sort of architectural, I like the Audi look. And both of those, I think, have just more character going down the road too in terms of driving dynamics.
GREG MILIORE: I'm a big fan of the Mercedes. I think, stem to stern, that car is, frankly, the best in the segment. I mean, if we were going to give an editor's pick, which we do, of course, that one, generally, it just does all of the things well. I think the C class is beautiful and well executed. And it's a heck of a lot of fun to drive. But, you know, again, for me, the Jaguar is like, one of the emotional choices along with, you know, the Alfa. You know, the Alfa, I think-- the Jaguar is a little more well-rounded, and its flaws are a little, like, not as, I'd say, paramount. Whereas the Alfa, I think some of its flaws are really paramount. But then some of the emotional aspects really reward you. So it's a little bit polarizing, both these vehicles.
So Byron, you took this to lunch, which is a great move, whenever you have a hot car. That's a great thing to do, just jump into the car and take it to lunch. So what did you think?
BYRON HURD: My thoughts pretty much echo yours. It's an interesting little car. I really like the seating position. It feels like, low slung. And you feel like you're close to the road. You feel connected to it. But the power train, really, is pretty disappointing. Like, it's one of those where it doesn't do anything for you really emotionally. It works well enough, and that's about, like, maybe the highest praise I can give it.
I was in the GLC just a couple of weeks ago. And obviously, you know, we're comparing a sedan and a small crossover. But just the powertrain refinement of the Mercedes turbo, even though it was still a four cylinder, head and shoulders better than what was in the Jag. And granted, you know, Jaguars had to kind of go it alone with their engine development recently. They don't have the Ford engines to fall back on anymore. You know, they're exploring new partnerships with BMW and all that, which is probably a good thing. But it's one of those cars where, like, I would love to have it in my driveway, but it may not be the car I would drive every day. Something nice to look at.
GREG MILIORE: Yeah, fair points. I'd agree with that.
JOHN SNYDER: That's a perfect description. You know and, you know, I talked about Jaguar sedans at large. I really liked the XJ, and I'll miss that one. That one-- I mean, granted, it's bigger. It's more luxurious and whatever. That one felt really special. It looked the part. And Jaguar does coupes really, really well. I think they look awesome, and they drive amazing.
BYRON HURD: There was an F type with that same exact color over here just the other day. I was staring at--
GREG MILIORE: Yeah, that car is gorgeous. I'll tell you what. The XK and the XF are two Jaguars that I, man, those were nice cars.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, for sure. But yeah, this XE just, I don't know. It doesn't get my pulse going at all, really.
GREG MILIORE: Wow, fighting words. So a little bit of a divide here. That's OK. I think that's good. I think sometimes, what's great about this segment is there is a lot of choices. And, you know, what really gets one person fired up, not so much for the other. So this is good. So let's move along. I think, Byron, you went to-- where did you go? San Antonio?
BYRON HURD: Yeah.
GREG MILIORE: OK. And you were driving the Seltos there, which is-- I like the way you set up your story. I was reading this last night. It kind of explained the segment that how both of Kia's kind of, like, right sized offerings, which is the Seltos and kind of the Soul, line up in what they're trying to do with it. I think it's a really interesting strategy, trying to attract customers into their fold who maybe want, again, more of the emotional play, which is the Soul, versus just sort of the very traditional-- for Kia, let's put it that way-- crossover. So, I mean, just first of all, impressions of the vehicle.
BYRON HURD: I went into Seltos not really knowing what to expect from it. I knew it was small and maybe kind of like a Hyundai Kona. But I was pleasantly surprised. When they briefed us on the car, they told us that the whole concept came from wanting to create an all wheel drive derivative of the Soul. And that makes sense, because for years, Kia has been kind of confused in their marketing with the Soul, right? Like sometimes they kind of casually refer to it as a crossover, and other times it's just a compact hatchback.
And even, if you look at the build and price tool on Kia's website, you can equip it with both the GT line package, which is the one they put on all their small sedans, and the X line package, which is the one they're going to push for crossovers. So everything about the Soul is just kind of confused. And I liked the concept of something essentially being an all wheel drive Soul to begin with, because I've always kind of liked that car. And Seltos is kind of that, but the instant you start to drive it, you're reminded that it is, first and foremost, a crossover, and secondarily, like, kind of a cousin to the Soul, spiritually.
Like, it has the funky beat lighting that you can do with the audio system, and the, like, cool speaker designs, and stuff like that, that feel very Soul, and not necessarily universally Kia, because they don't do that in all their cars. But the way it handles, the body roll, the seating position, everything about it feels raised up. It feels like a crossover. And it's very practical. It's comfortable. We drove the top end SX, which has the independent rear suspension and the turbo engine. So of course, is the most interesting one.
GREG MILIORE: That's a really, like, compelling couple of just features of the vehicle. You know, you wouldn't expect that from the Seltos.
BYRON HURD: Yeah. So if you start with-- I mean, the beautiful thing about this car is they structured it so that you can go into it to buy either a front wheel drive car or an all wheel drive car, and essentially pay the same price upfront. It's just a matter of whether you want some of the extra niceties you get with front wheel drive. But the, like, as you start to load it up, when you get the all wheel drive, you get the better suspension, and that's true whether it's the turbo engine or not. Like, there are just a lot of compelling reasons to kind of play around with the options on it.
And you have all these, like, fun and funky things that Kia has been good at with the Soul and the other small cars in its lineup, like two toned roof. Things like that. So it's definitely on the cheap and cheerful end of the spectrum, versus just being cheap. So it's compelling for what it is. It's not going to blow you away dynamically. It's not a hot hatch disguised as a crossover. It is a crossover. But it's fun for what it is, and a good little car.
GREG MILIORE: I think it's a really smart play for Kia. I think this segment is red hot. I think, you know, and you're seeing companies sort of make vehicles that are even like, a little bit bigger, a little bit smaller. They're really just-- they're really trying to fill out every kind of like, thing that might possibly be on the menu for a consumer who wants like, the nebulous term crossover, but maybe isn't quite sure what they want.
So I think there's a lot of awareness there to think, well hey, we know the Soul is, you know, it's polarizing. It was very polarizing when they first launched it. As it's sort of aged, it's become, I'd say, a little more, mundane is not the right word. But it's a little less, you know, avant-garde, if you will, that people initially thought. Maybe we're just getting used to it. I don't know. But the Soul does a lot of things well. I mean, it won our compact crossover comparison, which was a lot of fun, John, wouldn't you say?
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, it was. The thing about that was, it was hard for me to write that that won our crossover comparison.
GREG MILIORE: Yeah, that was the biggest strike against it.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. When it doesn't have all wheel drive, it just doesn't feel, really, to me, like a crossover. But it did pretty much everything that a crossover does well, except for, you know, have that higher stance and all wheel drive. Which is why I'm really curious to drive the Seltos. I'd be really curious to put it-- you know, I wish I could go back in time and throw it into that test just to see, you know, how it shakes out in that.
GREG MILIORE: I literally just had that thought. And we had the Escape in the office this week too, which we'll get to in a second. And it's like, to me, that just really illustrates how quickly car companies are changing this segment. It's like, boom. It's been four months, and there's two new offerings just from-- I mean, I would argue those would probably go at or near the top of the segment. Not to mention other things that I'm sure are out there that I'm just not even thinking of. So it's really a red hot segment.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. Except for the Ford Echo Sport. That one's--
GREG MILIORE: That's not good.
JOHN SNYDER: And you know what? I'm not a big fan of the Nissan Kicks either. I just, I'm not. But, I mean, the fact that these companies are all offering these cars, you know, speaks to what you said.
GREG MILIORE: Compact, subcompact, that sort of nebulous area between compact and then, like, you know, just the next step up. It's like, you're seeing all these vehicles get in there. And I mean, this is a size up. But even just looking at Chevy with the Equinox and the Blazer. I mean, size-wise, you're not talking about much of a difference. But it's like, it's just-- it's a style of play. So.
JOHN SNYDER: Which is interesting that that works nowadays. You know, when companies like Ford are shrinking their lineup, you know, culling sedans, basically, but companies can offer different versions of like, the same size crossover, you know, two different cars in the same size and segment. That's really interesting to me, just that they've become that popular and that they can actually go out and sell them, you know, side by side.
GREG MILIORE: No, absolutely. What else should we know about the Seltos?
BYRON HURD: It's bigger than you expect it to be. That's one of things. Like, going in, knowing it was essentially, you know, shared the same architecture with the Soul. It's only-- the wheelbase is about an inch longer, but the overall length is-- I don't remember the numbers on the top of my head, but it's significantly bigger than the Soul and it has a lot more imposing presence. And imposing is not really the right word, but it is definitely bigger. It feels bigger. It doesn't drive like a small car. It drives maybe even bigger than it is.
And it's one of those, like, if you put it side by side with the Soul, the Soul looks genuinely small, which,
JOHN SNYDER: That's very interesting.
BYRON HURD: Like, on its own, the Soul doesn't usually look small.
GREG MILIORE: OK. You know, this is kind of trivial, but I think the name is really cool, Seltos. Rolls off the tongue, sounds cool.
BYRON HURD: It's a Greek mythological reference. The Greek version starts with a C instead of an S, I think.
GREG MILIORE: Sounds like a transformer.
BYRON HURD: But yeah, it's some sort of-- I didn't really pay attention when they were talking about it during the marketing part that I wasn't really keyed in on. But yeah. So, there you go.
GREG MILIORE: How was the trip to Antonio? Feature 8?
BYRON HURD: It was good. It was pleasant. It was not 20 degrees, which is a nice thing this time of year. Yeah.
GREG MILIORE: We were talking about this off microphone, if you will. San Antonio is like, the new Austin as far as automaker trips.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, I was just there in December.
GREG MILIORE: Yeah. What were you there for?
JOHN SNYDER: Highlander.
GREG MILIORE: Oh yeah, yeah. I drove the last gen Highlander at Pebble Beach, which was a great place to drive a Highlander. Yeah. Anyways, so let's transition over to the Hyundai Venue. I actually didn't spend any time in this. We had so many awesome cars here the last week that it just didn't quite hit my dance card. But I know you guys did. The Hyundai Venue name is something that, while I like the Seltos name, and the Venue sounds good, but I mentioned this when they revealed this thing. The Venue, to me, sounds like it should be their three row crossover, not the smallest crossover they make. You know, because a venue is like, a 50,000 seat stadium, you know? It doesn't matter, but that's my thoughts. What did you think of the car, John?
JOHN SNYDER: You know, I was looking forward to driving it. I saw it on the show floor in New York last April and thought it looked great. I still think it looks great. But as soon as I opened the door to this one, it kind of-- the illusion kind of disappeared for me. It's meant to be sort of a budget vehicle, and it feels it. Inside there's a lot of sort of hard plastic. Not a lot going on sort of design wise. The infotainment screen is just sort of glued onto the dash, not really integrated in a sort of artful way.
Driving it, I liked driving it around town. You know, it's not very powerful. But, you know, it's got plenty of get up and go for, you know, in the city. And it handles nice. But commuting home on the highway, it was, you know, it was not really up to the task. I could live with this car in a city. If I were doing my commute that I do every day, I would not want to live with this car.
GREG MILIORE: I was a little concerned, if I was going to get in this thing, about how it would behave on the highway. It just-- I was walking out to lunch to go let my dog out, and I walked by it and thought, man, that's a small vehicle. It's styled nicely. I'll say that. I think they capture a, you know, a spirit that is sometimes lacking in that segment. But yeah, man. I don't know. I feel like, in some ways, like, we're a little of this, like, post tiny smaller crossover phase. They'll probably sell a decent amount of these, because basically, if you slap the crossover label on almost anything, and then give it some styling and price it properly, you can move some metal.
But, you know, it certainly fills a gap in Hyundai's lineup. But you know, I don't know. Part of me thinks they would have been better off trying to do like what Chevy did, which is just keep slicing up the midsize segment as much as you can. Do you have any thoughts on this, Byron?
BYRON HURD: I'm just-- it's shocking to me, almost, how small it is. It's so small that I went and looked at like, everything else in the subcompact segment, whether it's sedan, hatchback, crossover, or whatever. And it's got one of the shortest wheel bases of anything you can buy. The only one that's like, alarmingly smaller is the Fiat 500, which is pretty much known for not having a backseat, so much as kind of a suggestion of one.
And I was talking about this with Zack out on the floor earlier. I can just sit behind myself in the venue. Zack can't say the same, and he's not that tall. There's just not a lot of leg room. And it's one of those cars where you think, OK, in a year or two, we're going to be seeing these as like, Uber and Lyft cars everywhere, and no one's going to like it because they're not going to fit in the back seat behind anyone who's actually driving the thing.
GREG MILIORE: That's going to be a nightmare. You see guy's picking you up in a Hyundai Venue. I think, maybe I go to a different pickup point.
BYRON HURD: Yeah, it's just-- it's very small. You feel the short wheelbase over any road imperfection. It just smacks you. Like, it's almost, I think, maybe Hyundai's found the lower limit on how small we can make these things. They package better than sedans because the seating position is more upright. So you get more room. But the problem is, for Hyundai especially, the Accent is so roomy and decent just in its own right, that they didn't really need to make a better alternative to it. Like, the Accent's just good.
And I don't know. It doesn't capture the fun or funky angle that Kia does with the Soul, and it's just one of those where it's like, OK, they were trying to make it kind of cute and kind of different. But I don't think they went far enough in either of those directions to really make it stand out.
GREG MILIORE: At the opposite end of the spectrum, that sounds a lot like how just the general mood regarding the Kia Telluride versus the Hyundai Palisade is, you know, Palisade. We love the Telluride's quirky looks. Its interior, just the name Telluride, like, the sense of presence that vehicle has. And I like the Palisade. I think I'm a little warmer on it than some of my colleagues here.
JOHN SNYDER: I love it.
GREG MILIORE: OK.
JOHN SNYDER: I love them both.
BYRON HURD: I'm also pro-Palisade.
GREG MILIORE: All right. Well, maybe--
BYRON HURD: You're in a Palisade-friendly room.
GREG MILIORE: Gotcha. All right. I'd say it seemed like the general mood, correct me if I'm wrong, is that, you know, we like the Telluride a little bit more because it's got a little bit more of that, you know,
JOHN SNYDER: Bravado.
GREG MILIORE: Exactly. Thank you. Yeah, that was the word I was looking for. But yeah. I mean, it's, frankly, if you look at what Kia and Hyundai are doing right now, I mean, they're on parallel paths with slightly different approaches. And, you know, their-- I mean, their sales volume is, you know, they've achieved critical mass. And I think they're starting to achieve, really, just this widespread recognition. I think there is still, though, a little bit of a hang up among some consumers saying, well, I don't know if I really want a Hyundai, you know? Or I don't know if I really want a Kia.
And I actually think that's where like, the Accent, if you say like, do you want a small Hyundai, small car, people will be like, oh, I don't know about that. But do you want the Hyundai Venue? It's an SUV, air quotes. Well, OK. I'll take a look at it. That might fit my lifestyle. So.
JOHN SNYDER: And it looks-- I really like the way it's styled on the exterior for sure.
BYRON HURD: Ours is a little bland. The white on white's not much. It's also just extra white because of the road salt, but, I mean, the denim looks gorgeous. That's a good looking little car.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, in general. Yeah. I agree the white is not its best look, but in other colors, yeah. It looks really nice.
GREG MILIORE: Cool. So how about we move along to the Ford Escape. I drove this last weekend. This is-- we actually have had two Escapes in the fleet. We just got a hybrid, which we're starting to really just-- it's only been here a couple nights. That's very interesting. But we'll focus on just the gas powered one that we had last week. You know, the preceding week. This was titanium trim. Came in at about $40,000. Pretty loaded up as far as like, electronics and, you know, other gizmos.
JOHN SNYDER: That's a hard price to swallow, though.
GREG MILIORE: 100%. That's like, literally, I just was doing my drivers notes. And I'm like, I like this car. It's not bad. The interiors look fine, what you would expect for a Ford Escape. And then I read the sticker, or I specced it out, and I thought, whoa. No way. So. Did you guys get Escape time?
BYRON HURD: I didn't, no. I didn't get in this one. When-- the first time, when we had a hybrid in for like, a day just so we could shoot photos of it, I took that home and I really liked it. And it got fantastic fuel economy. But I haven't driven this gas-powered one yet.
GREG MILIORE: OK. Well, I mean, we can talk about the hybrid, because I just drove it this morning too. And, you know, again, I was getting really good gas mileage in there. We'll just broaden this up, all Escapes. All Escapes are welcome. And again, the fuel economy was great. I had about a 30 mile drive last night. I did find, like, sort of, like, the stop start was a little weird, I thought. And I think, just, you mix that with the-- like, the really kind of like, heavy hybrid brakes. That was a little weird from stoplights. But yeah, fuel economy was very nice.
Yeah. I mean, I think that the Escape is very competitive now in the segment. It-- excuse me-- it looks, I think, demonstrably better than it did before. I think the last generation, it was a tweeter generation. Like, it used to be very, very boxy. Think like, first term Obama. That escape was very boxy.
JOHN SNYDER: And I loved that.
GREG MILIORE: I did too. I thought that was more of a timeless look. And then they went like, what was it, the Ford Kuga they kind of like, ripped off and did that? And it seemed like then, there was like, another kind of tweener redesign, where it and the edge just became like, one and the same. And now here we are. And I think the new Escape looks really good. I think that's actually one of the stronger selling points, is it's curvy. It's got like, that big grille. It's got the, you know, those headlights kind of like, meld into the side, really to bridge the gap. Good looking car, I think. Good looking crossover.
So I mean, just to tee it up there, I think Ford's got kind of a compelling argument that the Escape is maybe better looking than your SUV. And think about that. But there are-- there's some shortfalls, you know? Even in titanium trim, I thought the interior was just middling. That like, wood, fake wood stuff, like, not so much. Yeah, I don't know. That there were a lot of parts of it that I just thought, this does not feel like $40,000. But yeah. I mean, Ford Sync is just fine. You know, and the infotainment is OK. Yeah.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. On its own, and in a vacuum, without a price tag on it, I like it quite a bit. But yeah. When you start looking to price, other things start looking a little more compelling. But the hybrid, I think, I feel like the hybrid worked really well as a hybrid. It did all the hybrid stuff really well. With the infotainment, and the digital displays, and everything, it felt every bit like a new era of a Ford crossover.
And I just pulled this up. When I drove it, my commute is about 37 miles, 38 miles. I got 43.5 miles per gallon in it with-- and I'm not, you know, I'm kind of a heavy foot. And yeah, 37 total miles, 15.6 of which were gas, according to the trip computer, which I was pretty impressed with. Super effortless in terms of fuel economy.
GREG MILIORE: I think it's-- I think it's the right kind of offering for this space. This is the time where I think, you know, we've talked about this on the podcast too, that hybrids are a good interim solution. You know, we're not quite down the road yet on the way to full electric. We still have infrastructure questions, cost questions. But for a lot of people who just might need an Escape, a hybrid Escape is a very compelling proposition.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, I agree. And there's something to be said for just hybrids that don't have a plug. As much as I like vehicles with plugs, it's a lot easier for people to get in and understand and drive. And I don't know, when you can get effortless fuel economy like that, it's pretty impressive. I would love to see a plug-in hybrid version. But I just don't-- I don't see it selling, especially considering how much more it would cost, and how good it is just as a regular hybrid.
GREG MILIORE: So the Escape SE hybrid starts at $28,225. That's before a lot of different things. But that's a fairly reasonable price, I think, for an Escape Hybrid.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, I agree. And you know, that's-- what did you say, 28? That's--
GREG MILIORE: Just north of 28. $28,255.
JOHN SNYDER: And that's kind of-- that's pretty close to what the Prius all wheel drive starts at. And I'd much rather live with the Escape. You know, it's certainly not as good of fuel economy, but, you know, everything else is better. Well, Toyota's hybrid system and their powertrain is pretty airtight. That's pretty bullet proof. The reliability, Toyota's got the reputation for that. But I would much rather live with an Escape than a Prius all wheel drive for the price.
GREG MILIORE: Yeah. I'm right there with you. And I think, you know, Ford was one of the, sort of the early adopters. I remember, you know, talking about that boxy Escape and the Mariner hybrid, you know, back in like, '08, '09. They were there. Not many other automakers were hybridizing sort of their everyday vehicles like this. And if they were, they weren't doing it very well. I mean, does anybody remember those old GM SUV light hybrids that got like, basically no extra fuel economy, but they were doing it? I think there was a Durango hybrid.
I literally remember one time I was at Auto Week, and we had them all on the fleet at the same time, and we called it pointless hybrid week. So, but anyways. I do think the Escape drives pretty well. I think it drives smaller than it is. It's not a big vehicle, but I mean, it feels pretty nimble. It feels like relatively narrow. And I mean that in a good way. Steering is just OK, fine. Nothing special. Chassis is, again, fine. Nothing special. I did find it too soft or too abusive.
Visibility's OK, pretty good. I kind of liked that. It seemed like the greenhouse was actually, you know, there was some visibility. You know, sometimes you get in these sort of styled up crossovers, and it's tough to see out of them. But this one was pretty good. So, I mean, overall, I think we got a lot to think about here, you know, as far as what's going on in the segment. I think I still like the Forester a little better. The Forester feels a little more, I don't know, it's still a bit more my taste.
Although I will say this this. This new Escape does feel fresher, because it's a newer car. The CRV, which I have not driven in quite some time, even though we had one here last week, that's an ironic thinking out loud statement. But I've always felt that to be a very compelling vehicle too. I think it's definitely executed. It looks good. It drives well. So I probably would still put that one ahead of the Escape in the segment. I know the Honda Pilot, or no, Passport, is not exactly in the segment, but it's around the segment, adjacent, I don't know. Even though they're trying to pitch that as like, more of a rough and tough SUV thing. So again, it's a crowded segment. Any other thoughts on the Escape?
BYRON HURD: Looks good in red.
GREG MILIORE: Fair enough. All right, well let's move along. And let's see. It's time for the news segment. New Cadillac set to debut for the New York Auto Show. Cadillac's got a history of doing things at the New York Auto Show. I think they tend to really try to play to their sort of potential east coast customers. I'm not sure if they're achieving those, but they try to do it. And they used to have their headquarters there for a minute. But Byron, you actually wrote the story. Why don't you kind of take us through it?
BYRON HURD: Yeah. This is one of those things where I keep wanting to get excited about what GM is going to do next, because I like the Bolt so much. Like, that's a great little EV. It's practical, and all the things you'd want from like, an entry level electric car. So I'm-- part of me is excited and optimistic that Cadillac can do a Bolt, essentially. Like, it won't actually be a Bolt. But their Bolt, the way a Cadillac Bolt should be.
The thing that worries me is that it's GM, and their predilection for conservatism and safety in their design and execution kind of lands a lot of their cars on the more boring side, even when it's something that should be really exciting, it just doesn't have that emotional appeal to it. So I like the idea. I'd like to see them, you know, come in at least like, you know, 250, 275 miles range or something like that, with something that looks at least a little bit like the rendering that they showed us, and actually has an interior that you care about looking at. So fingers crossed on that. But if they do it, I think it'll be great. I think it'll be exciting. We'll just have to see if they can.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. If they can make the interior just somewhat interesting, it'll be good. But yeah. That's, I feel like, their pratfall. A lot of-- even, you know, highly specced Cadillacs, very conservative. And I think with something like this, there's an opportunity to make it a little more exciting and start off on the right foot with their EVs.
GREG MILIORE: I think their-- they definitely picked the right segment. If they're going to try and make it like a mid-sized crossover. I mean, to me, that kind of puts it in the Audi e-tron territory, like the one we had last fall. I think that's where you're going to get your widest swath of customers. And to your point, Byron, and if they could do like, anything like that concept, I mean, you really have the potential to have a home run here. I mean, that's where you start to really bring in some new buyers. You know, obviously the green scene, but maybe people who just see this sort of styling and think, hey, that's cool.
I mean, the Escalade was basically able to pull up the Cadillac brand just by its own coolness, in a way that other Cadillacs, frankly, have not achieved in decades. So if, I mean, they've got one vehicle. If they could have two, that would be really helpful. So I'm cautiously optimistic about this. I've seen a few CT 5s and CT 4s running around town. I assume that's like, GM executives testing these things or something. I don't think they're on sale yet. Maybe they are. But, so there's some potential there. So we'll see.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. If this can deliver on range, which I'm sure it will, and has styling similar to the image that they showed us back whenever it was, I think it could definitely have some mainstream appeal.
GREG MILIORE: I mean, Cadillac's at an interesting place, you know? I think, objectively, I think their cars and vehicles look pretty good. It's that they also tend to fall short with their interiors, and they also tend to sort of under deliver when it comes to actually bringing in people who want to spend money on a Cadillac. That's a problem. You know, the last line up of like, you know, autobahn burning, you know, pick your cliche sedans, we liked as car journalists, because we're enthusiasts. But they didn't really capture all that many buyers for Cadillac.
You know, and they can always point to optimistic sales figures like overseas. Or, hey, we did post a year over year increase. Which isn't hard to do when you're not selling that many cars. So , you know, I mean, Cadillac, I think, is in a very interesting place. Yeah. So speaking of luxury cars, let's talk about Lincoln and Chevy. This is sort of a-- this is a piece one of our freelance writers Fed Gustafson wrote.
Citing Automotive News, essentially what we're saying and reporting, and they're saying and reporting, actually, is that dealers are kind of pushing back against Chevy and Lincoln. And we've heard this about other brands too that have steered away from sedans. And they're saying, hey, we want sedans. What are you doing there, factory? We think we could sell them. We think there's a market for them. And it's one of those things where, it's sort of where strategy diverges from like, you know, [? Rensen ?] and, you know, glass house spreadsheets versus what people are actually doing on the ground, and walking into the dealerships and saying, well, where's your sedan, you know?
So, you know, we can get into the story a little bit more, but be sure to check it out at autoblog.com. And, of course, hat tip to Automotive News. I'm curious. What do you guys think? Should sedans see a Renaissance? Is this just like, you know, tilting at windmills? What do we think?
JOHN SNYDER: Like, this just makes me want to throw up my hands, and, I just, I don't know what to think. You know, I feel like we like sedans as car guys, but I don't know. Everyone's, you know, killing their sedans, and then other people are doubling down on sedans, you know? I just, I don't know what to make of it, to be honest. It'll be interesting to see what comes of this and how the manufacturers respond to this, and if people actually buy them, or if they just ignore this and go on saying, I know that people want SUVs.
I will say that I think Lincoln-- I personally think Lincoln should have a sedan. It's just part of what Lincoln is. And the Continental is very nice. Sad to see that go away. Chevy, I don't really have any love for any of the Chevy sedans, to be honest. Yeah, they've all been pretty forgettable. I'm sorry if that's kind of harsh, but to me, I mean, they just, I don't know. They deserve to die. I'm sorry.
GREG MILIORE: Yeah, I mean, the Chevy Cruze is not a particularly inspiring car, but many things in that segment aren't. And I think there's kind of two ways to look at this. There's like, do we think we're going to get volume with these sedans. If the answer is yes, well, OK. And then you follow up with, can we get volume from something else, maybe a small crossover. Maybe we could get more volume from said small crossover. So we're going to do that, because that's like, the stronger marketing play right now.
Then you look at it another way. Well, do we need a sedan for like, prestige? Chevy? Probably not. I don't think the Impala really does much for their prestige, even though I actually thought that was a decent car. You know, the full size sedan segment was fairly empty. And the things that were in it were somewhat interesting to drive. I digress.
So Chevy, maybe not so much. I think it wouldn't hurt to have some kind of four door car-like thing in their lineup. I don't think they need to be totally draconian and pivot away. But Lincoln, I actually, I agree with you, John. I think they absolutely need sedan. Maybe not the MKZ or the MKS. Keep the Continental, though. And, I mean, it's not the kind of car that you need to be rolling out mid cycle refreshes every 18 months. Just keep it. You know, make it like, your flagship, air quotes, and go from there.
JOHN SNYDER: I feel like the Continental could do well with just the right spokesperson. You know, get the right celebrity and make it a prestige thing again.
GREG MILIORE: All right, all right. You're saying McConaughey isn't that right spokesman for Lincoln?
JOHN SNYDER: I don't know. Yeah, I mean-- sure. But--
GREG MILIORE: I mean, he brings a lot of clicks and eyeballs, and all that stuff.
JOHN SNYDER: Get someone that, you know, younger buyers will sort of look up to, and, yeah.
GREG MILIORE: I do think the Continental may be underachieved. I thought the Continental was a pretty good car.
JOHN SNYDER: I loved it.
GREG MILIORE: And we hardly ever got a chance to drive one. And that's another way it underachieved. We should have been driving that thing like, every six months, you know? Hey, we have a new infotainment flash. You want to drive it. And it just didn't seem like they ever really got the word out about that car. Do you have thoughts, Byron?
JOHN SNYDER: I have so many thoughts. I think the industry in general is looking at this kind of like a new Ford Ranger problem. And I mean that in that there are separate questions. People want sedans, do they want sedans, because it was the cheap thing that they always used to get. Because, you know, you could go get a Nissan Versa sedan for $14,000. Does that-- do those people, then, just go to another $14,000 car, whether it's Kicks or something else, or do they actually want a Versa?
So that, you can kind of apply that across the whole spectrum. And I'm starting to wonder if maybe it's time for the sedan to just become a premium offering in general, where it's there for the people who want it who are willing to pay. Maybe to get a little less content, but get a car that's shaped the way they want it. Like the people who actually care about those things. Which, I hate to say, like, make it for enthusiasts, when you can't make everything for enthusiasts. Especially not something like that.
But they're going to have to look at it not necessarily maybe as something that generates volume. And once you pivot away from that, that's-- I mean, that's the thing that all of the sedans and other small cars that were canceled recently really had in common. They were there for volume, not for margin. Even the bigger ones. I mean, like the-- you know, they made a little bit more money off of the Buick than they did off of the Chevy when it came to the full size sedan. But they were there, essentially, to just check that box. They weren't necessarily all that special. And it gets worse the farther down the line you go. It's just a matter of having a compact competitor, having a midsize competitor.
So I think, I mean, sedans are still almost 1/2 the US vehicle market. It's not like they're not being purchased. It's just not like it was in 2003 or whatever, when, you know, before the trucks really started to take over. And I think there's room there for new entries, new sedans, new things that are fun, and maybe a little sexy, and maybe, you know, more rear wheel drive platforms that they can essentially funnel down from crossovers and SUVs that they want to build and make a lot of money off of any way.
You know, they've got things like Ford's new platform, that they're talking about using for all sorts of stuff that's underneath the Explorer and the Lincoln Aviator. Like, you've got these-- the fundamentals are there. It's just whether you care enough about that car to do a good enough job to actually make it exciting and sell it to people who specifically want it, versus the guy who's just going to replace his camera because it's what he does.
GREG MILIORE: Yeah, well said. I think part of the issues, I think, with sedans right now is getting consumers to understand that this actually might be the car you want. I think consumers think, well, I need to get a crossover. And then you get behind the wheel of almost any crossover, and either the way the seats are positioned, they're the sort of the ride height. It's that feel that people want. Most people don't want a hunkered down, low to the ground sedan. And if you do, you're looking probably at a German luxury car, or a Jaguar, or Alfa, or something like that, or a Dodge Charger.
I think there's a mental, sort of, just, it's like a dissonance. You know, if you walk down the street to like, you know, the supermarket that's across this parking lot that we can see, it's mostly crossovers. And that's because most people would say, well, man, you know, I just-- I had sedans for years, and I want something that's a little, quote unquote, "bigger", even though crossovers aren't necessarily bigger, you know?
And I think the notion of a crossover, and like, how SUVs are just placed has changed so much. And that, I think, is what hurts sedans too. And obviously, the fuel economy issues of like-- or excuse me, the economic sort of issues of like, '08, '09, '10, you know, you moved away from almost like, all big vehicles for a little bit. And then boom, we're back here. Fuel is relatively cheap. The economy's good. Well, everybody wants to drive Yukons, Tahoes, and Explorers and Foresters again.
So it's really an interesting time. You know, climate crisis, I think, could impact some of this as well. So we'll see. This is a pretty deep conversation there. I think let's move on to something a little more fun. The Ford Bronco might be here in a couple of weeks. This is another report from Automotive News. Didn't realize I was lumping all these together in one podcast. But they had some sources at dealer meetings last week or a couple of weeks ago. And lots of good information.
What we're hearing is that the 2021 Bronco is going to be out there. And I think this is, you know, one of the more anticipated reveals, probably since the C8 Corvette back in July. I'm super psyched. I think it's going to be-- I think it's going to be compelling for them. I think it's going to-- I don't think it's going to necessarily steal customers from the Wrangler. I think what's going to happen is, your hardcore Jeep buyers are still going to buy the Jeep. But any of those like, sort of moderates in the middle who weren't quite sure, like, I want an off roader, but I don't really want the 4Runner, that really leaves me with the Wrangler.
You know, I think that's where the Bronco is going to pick up some people. And then I think it's just going to grow the segment. I think there's going to be this pent up demand, and I think it will do well. I mean, I think, actually, the ceiling for the Bronco is going to be higher than I think the ceiling was for the Ranger. I think the Ranger is underachieved considerably. I think people are already actually ready for the next generation.
BYRON HURD: I'm sure.
GREG MILIORE: I know people who have passed out buying one because they're like, you know, yeah, they're going to do a new one, and this one's a little underwhelming. So, you know, obviously, we did name it our best small pickup or mid-sized pickup a year ago, but that was a year ago, and it was very close too. So I think I'm much more excited about the Bronco than, you know, than I expected to be. I don't know. And we're also hearing that the smaller one, the one that we called the Baby Bronco, may be the Bronco Sport, which is taking a page from sort of Land Rover's playbook. And I'm OK with that.
JOHN SNYDER: I'm so sick of everyone calling their smaller vehicle the sport. Like, the Rogue Sport, you know? And like, the Ford Echo Sport. Well, that just told "sport" doesn't mean small. Anyway. I'm really looking forward to the Bronco. I mean, it's such a iconic nameplate. And with, you know, genuine offroad chops. And from what we've seen with this new one, it looks like it will, you know, offer exactly that. It's going to have its own unique styling. It's going to have offroad capabilities. And yeah, I think it's going to be super fun. I'm really looking forward to this one.
GREG MILIORE: Yeah. I think this is a good opportunity for Ford to really create some buzz around their brand and, you know, again, draw in some customers that haven't been, you know, sort of looking at the Ford stores lately. So we'll see. I mean, are you an off roader at all?
BYRON HURD: Yeah. I come from a Jeep family. But also a Bronco family. My grandmother had a first gen Ranger. It was a beautiful car. We didn't get rid of it until she had Alzheimer's, she couldn't drive anymore and, we sold it to a neighbor who was a big four by four modifier and collector and restorer. So it went to a good home, but I still miss that thing. And I've been driving Wranglers, at least casually, since I started driving cars. And I'm psyched for this.
Like, competition betters the breed, right? Like, the more entrants you get, the better it is for everybody. It'll make the Jeep better. It'll make-- the Bronco will evolve from an initial package. I'm interested to see what the Sport version turns out to be. I mean, if it's just-- you know, if it's a Renegade competitor, which is kind of what I envision in my head, or if it's going to be, you know, kind of more of an in-between, I think I really got excited when we saw those prototypes rolling around and knew for certain that it wasn't just going to be a Honda Ridgeline, you know? Like, it's a dedicated vehicle with a good, unique look, and I'm pumped.
GREG MILIORE: Yeah. I'm pumped slash cautiously optimistic. So I think I'm excited, yeah. So have we spent some money?
JOHN SNYDER: Sounds good, yeah.
GREG MILIORE: All right. This is quite the literary gem of a spend my money. So, all right. This is the writer from Vancouver, Canada looking to purchase a vehicle in the next six to eight months. Currently drives a 2016 Jeep Patriot 75th anniversary edition four by four. Bought new and only has 30,000 miles on it. This line is unbelievable. It's like driving a three legged hamster that sounds like it will have a coronary if I floor it. I hate the damn thing.
Then he goes into what he wants. Price, it could be up to three years old, $18,000 US to $21,000 US. Budget's not set, but, you know, that's the ballpark. And needs reliability. Obviously after the Jeep, he's a little bit sketchy about that. I understand. Decent fuel economy. The Jeep's doing 20 to 22. Four wheel all wheel drive for Canadian winters, eh? He wrote that, not me. Needs to be fun to drive. Hey, we're right there with you, man. We, here in Michigan, we're actually north of a huge part of Ontario, and we get CBC So hockey night in Canada. And a few other random CBC shows.
Manual transmission, a bit of ground clearance for the hiking trail needs. Needs to fit himself, a wife, a giant sized 14-year-old, two little dogs. Here's the field. RAV4, Crosstrek, and open to suggestions. What do we think, guys?
JOHN SNYDER: Well, I like the Crosstrek. And the RAV4, you know, if you're looking for reliability, Toyota's got it. He worries that they might not be fun to drive. I can definitely see that. The Crosstrek's kind of fun. At that price point, though, I think you can do-- you could get into a Forester. You'd have a little more room. The other thing that came to mind would be a Mazda CX5. Good fuel economy, and I think they're really fun to drive for the segment.
GREG MILIORE: Yeah. I'd agree with those. Byron?
BYRON HURD: My list is fairly similar. Going back a couple of years, and Volkswagen just cancelled it, but the Alltrack seems like it might be a decent option. I think they even made them with a manual, at least, and--
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, I forgot about that one.
BYRON HURD: So you can get your all wheel drive and cargo room, and all that kind of stuff. Knock all that out, a little bit of ground clearance. I mentioned the Jeep Renegade just to say we mentioned the Jeep Renegade, and then we can move along since reliability is a concern. But yeah, the Crosstrek, even just a five door Impreza, you know? If you don't absolutely need the ground clearance, it's a little bit better to drive than the Crosstrek. But I mean, fundamentally, the same car. It's just a little less body lane.
JOHN SNYDER: You can get a new Impreza.
BYRON HURD: Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah. And also on the smaller end of the spectrum, Mazda CX3 might be too small. And you also lose the CX5's independent rear suspension, so that's a comfort issue. And the Hyundai Kona, which I'm just a personal fan of. Again, on the smaller side.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, that back seat's really small, but other than that, it's a-- I love that car, yeah.
GREG MILIORE: Good choices. I think I'd probably lean towards like, a lightly used RAV4. You could get a '19, which, technically, the '20s are out. So a '19 is going to be a little bit above the price range, and you'd probably have to get a very basic version, because it starts at about 25, 26. But if you're willing to go back a couple of years, take the last gen RAV4, looks a little bit different, but it's still a decent car. Excuse me, decent off roader. So yeah, look at '16, '17, '18. You know, I think you're-- as far as like, reliability, you know, Toyota versus Jeep, there's not much for comparison.
BYRON HURD: It's hard to beat.
GREG MILIORE: So that would be the what I would kind of take a look at, but those are good choices too. Any final thoughts, gentlemen?
JOHN SNYDER: I miss Vancouver. I used to live in Oregon. We would drive up there to go skiing. Yeah. But yeah, enjoy whatever you get, and keep us updated. You know, if you look really, really, really hard, you might be able to find the old Crosstrek hybrid within that price range. And that would be good for field--
GREG MILIORE: Interesting, yeah.
JOHN SNYDER: But that's-- there aren't a lot of those.
BYRON HURD: Yeah, scarcity is your enemy there.
GREG MILIORE: Paul, thanks for writing. That was a really great note. Please let us know how this turns out. Yeah. And thank the rest of you for listening. It's been a great show. Be safe out there. If you're so inclined, you enjoy the show, please give us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Guys, it's been fun. It's been fun featuring the debut of Byron Hurd, our newest associate editor here, on the Auto Blog Podcast. Be safe out there. We'll see you next week.
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