REPORT: Diesels paying financial dividends back more quickly than hybrids
2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI - Click above for high-res image gallery
In the ongoing battle between hybrids and diesels for "payback time" supremacy, the latest round goes to the oil burning posse. That's the report from Edmunds, which did a recent numbers crunch comparing the two fuel-saving drivetrains and found the scales have tipped in favor of diesel powerplants.
According to the study, the average new vehicle price premium for a hybrid-electric is a whopping $4,981 (the Lexus LS 600h L takes the outlier cherry with a $15,969 premium over its gasoline counterpart). On the other hand, the average diesel premium is only about $2,360 (both figures were calculated after incentives and credits). Last year's high fuel prices have also come down considerably to the point where gasoline and diesel fuel are about the same price. This hurts the hybrid-electric powertrain, which takes advantage of high fuel costs by squeezing more miles out of each dollar's worth of gas for quicker payback.
Edmunds also did a payback comparison between the 2010 Toyota Prius and the all-new 2010 Honda Insight. While the Prius is undeniably clobbering Insight in the sales battle, the website says it will take a sobering 26.2 years of driving to recover the Toyota's $4,030 cost premium.
[Source: Auto Observer]
Get a WordPress.com Blog
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Luis 2:04PM (8/03/2009)
Cost premium compared to what, Edmunds? The Prius is more car than the Insight. It's larger and has more features than the Insight. You can't compared them side by side solely on MPG. The Prius has no direct competitor.
Reply
Justin 2:16PM (8/03/2009)
lol, why do you sound so hostile? Die hard fans of unproven electric car technologies (it takes years to see the impact that electric cars have in the real world, such as disposing batteries) like you, sounds just like a typical california woman defending Oprah with blind emotional hostility, lol...
Luis 2:19PM (8/03/2009)
Geez, buddy, you need to calm down.
To answer your only actual point: car batteries are designed to be recycled. Consider that GM is designing the Volt's battery pack to be useful for storing household-generated energy, say for solar arrays, for use long after the car is past it's useful life as a car.
Paul 2:22PM (8/03/2009)
I'm wondering the same thing. Edmunds (and others) keep saying the "premium" on a Prius is $5000 but they're not factoring how and why people select the cars they do.
Prius drivers aren't Toyota Yaris drivers who decided to pay more. They're Audi and Acura drivers who decided to drive a different car. They give up some things (power, handling) and get others in the process (efficiency, psychological rewards). It's seldom made to strictly save money, which everyone quantifying value on hybrids seems unable to grasp.
With performance car buyers, some like the image of power as much as the power itself, and they pay dearly for it. Some hybrid buyers like efficiency and what it says about them. Cars are fashion, like it or not, and not factoring that in is like trying to quantify when your SS Camaro's V8 will pay for itself.
Epyx 2:33PM (8/03/2009)
They give up some things (power, handling) and get others in the process (efficiency, psychological rewards).
And...
smugness
green-cred
fashion statement
new fad appeal
false altruism
a feeling of doing something by doing nothing (other than spend money)
mutantchimp 2:37PM (8/03/2009)
The cost premium was the cost of the hybrid/ diesel over a gasoline engine. True the batteries in hybrids are "designed" to be recycled will they? What is their life expectancy? Diesel engines are known for going 500,000 to over a million miles.
Polly Prissy Pants 2:38PM (8/03/2009)
Thanks Paul. I never got why it was so difficult to understand that to many, buying a hybrid isn't about saving at the pump. It could be about polluting less. Or it could be about sending less money to foreign governments who want nothing more than death to America. I've seriously considered buying a hybrid and if I do it won't be to save money on gas, although I'll be doing that too.
Epyx 2:37PM (8/03/2009)
"Prius drivers aren't Toyota Yaris drivers"
No - but they are usually not much different than Insight drivers - which of course is the point of the comparison.
The question a consumer has to ask is the Prius $4K better than the Insight - seems like many people say yes. It is interesting to see the numbers. Just another tool to help consumers. Not a bad thing. All you fan boys get your panties in a twist over nothing.
nardvark 2:38PM (8/03/2009)
They aren't "designing" the Volt's batteries to be useful for storing household energy, they're hoping that they can convince households or utilities to buy their battery packs, which have suffered severe degradation in their capacity. This way they can try to avoid the disposal issue. But you'd have to convince the utility that your crappy, degraded batteries are a better deal than buying new, higher capacity batteries, which means you have to sell them for a pittance. I wonder if it will end up being more cost-effective to just recycle the old batteries into new ones.
Paul 2:53PM (8/03/2009)
The claims of "smugness" and other shots (see Epyx) seem to always just be people projecting. Bottom line is that sports car drivers and hybrid drivers aren't all that different: They each buy their cars for an emotional as much as functional reason. For hybrid purchases, some people genuinely don't want to use more fuel than they have to.
For me, a hybrid is a means of giving less of my money to Saudi Arabia or creating situations that lead to, say, the Iraq fiasco. I don't give one s**t what people think of me or how much I save (though that's nice when prices will creep to $5). It's just something I like, much the way others like the power of a 160 mph sportscar that will *never* see that speed.
Live and let live. Choose and let choose.
the4thheat 4:29PM (8/03/2009)
It's total gibberish. Forget the fact that it made little sense to compare the Prius to the Insight, forget the fact that they apparently took the average Prius price to calculate the premium (the base Prius is more comparable to the Insight and even then it's a much larger, and plain better car) instantly doubling the premium from $2000 to $4000.
There's the plain fact that in their own comparison the apples to apples comparison of the Camry vs Camry Hybrid shows a $289 premium. Not some BS $4000 premium they got from including cars like the LS600h (where it's marked up because it's the flagship and gets more luxury features not because it has a hybrid powertrain), and GM two-mode SUVs like the Escalade Hybrid.
It makes no sense to compare cars where diesel is added as a cost savings measure against cars where hybrid has been added as a luxury/flagship feature (along with extra luxury goodies). If the diesel versions had more power and luxury than their gasoline counterparts it would make sense, but the diesel versions of these cars most definitely are not the most powerful versions of the vehicles, and are most definitely not more luxurious. Making it complete nonsense to average in cars like the LS600h.
It's like if Mercedes released their highest end flagship AMG vehicles as diesels, then can hybrid supporters start making idiotic claims about diesels having $40,000 premiums? Utter nonsense.
Seriously how in the world is the Camry's similarly cost-savings oriented hybrid not going to pay it's dividends back at $289?!
why not the LS2LS7? 7:10PM (8/03/2009)
I was going to say the same thing. If all of Edmunds' comparisons are the same as their Prius versus Insight comparison, the article is garbage.
You get a lot more car for your money with the Prius. So much so that even Honda stresses they aren't comparable.
This is like comparing a Jetta TDi to a Fusion Hybrid and saying the price difference is a premium for being a hybrid.
Capsicum 8:02PM (8/03/2009)
Ok, i'm going to say it:
Those whose reason is to give less money to the Saudis are stupid.
#1 Importer of oil to the US: Canada
#2 Importer of oil to the US: Mexico
They swap from time to time, but the question is the same: Do the Mexicans and Canadians want to kill us? I think not.
Mr.Oak 2:05PM (8/03/2009)
26.2 years, wow that's eye popping. With my luck, I'd be dead in 26.1 years.
People just keep the car you have and modify your behavior. I now take public transportation more.
Reply
Luis 2:16PM (8/03/2009)
Public transportation? You SOCIALIST!
gtdegamo 2:20PM (8/03/2009)
Well, I bet gasoline prices will go up within 5 years or sooner. So 26.1 years will be reduced considerably.
the4thheat 4:21PM (8/03/2009)
It's pretty silly since the Insight is a smaller car and is also an utter pile of crap (see any Insight review, particularly Jeremy Clarkson's). I think paying the extra money is well worth it to avoid the penalty box.
And I don't know where they got the $4000 price premium from-did they just take the average Prius price then compare it against the average Insight price? That's pretty retarded since the average Prius price is skewed up by the loaded models that aren't at all comparable to the Insight. The base Prius is the Insight competitor and it only has a $2000 price premium. Which would come out to 13 years to pay for itself instead of 26-or approximately the lifespan of modern cars. And that's completely ignoring the fact that you'd get a much roomier car with a lot more power, better suspension, and better driving dynamics.
Finally the only reason the hybrid premiums are high is because they're including stupid stuff like GMC Yukon hybrids and LS600h's where the premiums are super high at least partly because the hybrid is the flagship model (and in the LS600h it's a more luxurious car too). Even they admit the Toyota Camry hybrid has a $289 premium which I am about 99% sure it can pay back in gas savings in much, much less than 26 years.
Between the fact that the Camry hybrid has only a $289 premium and the fact that the Prius vs Insight comparison is moronic since they're not even in the same size class this only proves that you shouldn't buy an insanely marked up hybrid Escalade or LS600h. The Prius still makes sense, and even the Camry hybrid apparently makes sense here.
BigMcLargeHuge 2:12PM (8/03/2009)
Hopefully more good diesel reviews will get Americans to pay almost as close attention to them as hybrids.
Both are valuable technologies as we transition towards a carbon-neutral future. And both deserve praise for their respective advantages.
Reply
audi_arena 3:16PM (8/03/2009)
Thank you for that rational response.
zamafir 4:13PM (8/03/2009)
Americans are paying attention to them, go try and buy a TDI Sportwagen, they're damn near sold out. VW's continuing to sell more TDIs than Mini's selling cars, I'd say they're on a roll right now, and that Americans are paying attention - especially those with freeway computes or those who enjoy driving.
I’m sure vw’s watching the sales quite closely as most of the European carmakers have been slow to adapt to the American hybrid fad.