Michelin, Honda settle lawsuit over costly Odyssey runflats
The long-fought battle surrounding Michelin PAX runflat tires on certain 2005-2007 Honda Odyssey and 2006-2007 Acura RL models has finally come to a close. A Maryland judge has awarded $83,000 to those taking part in the class-action lawsuit, netting each plaintiff $5,000, $2,500, or $2,000 for tire replacements.
The suit claimed Honda and Michelin weren't upfront about the cost or durability of the tires, and that they last half as long as standard radials. As part of the settlement, Michelin is offering a three-year, 36,000-mile warranty on the tires to the 94,000 owners of the affected models. Also offered is a $300 rebate on a new Odyssey or Acura RL, or $110 for the purchase of a Honda-approved PAX spare tire kits. Hat tip to FaLex.
[Source: Greenville Online]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Darrell 8:30AM (7/01/2009)
even though Honda should share some of the blame, shouldn't have potential owners researched this? I don't own an Odyssey or RL but I know that the sticker mentions the run-flats from various service visits. a red flag should pop up in the shopper's head if a minivan has the same tire tech as a BMW
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Liquid 8:54AM (7/01/2009)
Huh? Minivan buyers != BMW buyers. People who buy minivans are buying an appliance just like they would buy a dishwasher. Sure there are some that actually do research, but most are just going to buy what their neighbors bought, or whichever holds more cups than what their neighbors bought.
KC 8:57AM (7/01/2009)
BMW is using thicker tire walls to counter the vehicle weight when air pressure is lost. The result is a general harsh ride. To counter this, Michelin hands Honda the PAX system. Basically PAX is a hardened "honey comb" rubber within the inner part of the tires. Therefore, the ride can be better with "BMW type" run flat. Both systems have their flaws, but both are costly to replace.
However, I wonder why there is no one complaining about the dub in 300C or FX50; they should be much more expensive to replace too.
Egon 9:05AM (7/01/2009)
When the PAX system was added to the Odyssey, this initally seemed to be a perfect matchup since the typical minivan driver has the same type of skills to change a tire as they would to change a timing belt. This is the same population that generates maintenance horror stories such as not changing the oil until the oil light comes on.
Now before you jump all over me for some sort of unfair stereotype, know this: I own an Ody. Well okay, I own it...my wife drives it. And the upside of her not dropping the car off the screw jack (on a highway shoulder, at night, in the rain, etc) is pretty damn appealing. Initally there was no history of rougher ride, faster wear, and stupefying replacement expense. When those stories started to surface, we were getting ready to buy another Ody. The presence of PAX on any new Ody sitting on a dealer's lot became an immediate dealbreaker. But until the history had been written, we might have ended up in the same fix...and perhaps as part of the same class action.
Rocketboy 9:05AM (7/01/2009)
They are damn expensive to replace, and on some BMW's (MINI Cooper S) they don't include a spare tire (and it took them a while to include a car jack) because the assumption was that there would always be runflats on the car. I doubt many people with MCS's replaced their runflats with more runflats due to ride, cost, and performance issues.
9600baud 9:12AM (7/01/2009)
Wait? I can sue if it costs money to replace my tires? What?
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Egon 9:23AM (7/01/2009)
When it costs $1200-1500 for a set of 4, then yes. And apparently you'll win. Until then, you can still sue, but it'll just make the new set of tires cost a lot more once you add on the legal fees.
9600baud 10:23AM (7/01/2009)
I still dont get it. Why not just buy a set of "Bob's Tires" for $19.99 each at walmart if you cant afford the $2k tires? Is this some kind of proprietary wheel that doesnt roll unless you replace with OEM tires? Last time I checked no one forced them to buy the exact same tire...
Egon 10:45AM (7/01/2009)
Well, in a sense, Honda was indeed forcing owners to stick with the run-flats. Bob's Tires won't fit on the PAX-specifc rims. By necessity of the design, the PAX tires have a much thicker bead so that the deflated tire doesn't roll or flex off the rim. Of course, the aftermarket responded by producing a "de-PAX" kit that included new rims as well as conventional tires. A happy ending, right? Not so much. Since the de-PAX voided Honda's warranty, owners got a royal screwing there as well.
Phil L. 11:52AM (7/01/2009)
The Michelin PAX system *DOES* force you to use their tires: The inboard and outboard wheel rim diameters are *different*, so no standard replacement tire will fit the wheel.
Worse, IIRC, the TPMS system was integrated into the wheels - which meant standard aftermarket wheels wouldn't work properly, either (I suspect there may now be ways around this limitation, which I read about some time ago).
9600baud 12:11PM (7/01/2009)
Hmm wow, I wasnt aware of these proprietary wheels, my apologies,that is indeed lame. Lawsuit lame? Not sure but lame nevertheless...
Aubs 9:46AM (7/01/2009)
What a dumb lawsuit. THIS is why it costs so much to do business anywhere today, why insurance rates are so high, and why car companies have trouble making money. They have to idiot-proof everything.
Why don't some of us get together and sue Acura (or any car maker for that matter) over the cost of O2 sensors, or VW over the cost to replace at timing chain on a VR-6, or Kia over the cost to fix a front bumper...
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mapoftazifosho 10:02AM (7/01/2009)
This is NOT a dumb lawsuit. The bigger issue with the PAX tires is finding a shop that has the expensive machine needed to mount this style tire. It wasn't simply an issue of cost.
This was a major gaff by Michelin and Honda.
mike 10:05AM (7/01/2009)
I would generally agree, but from what I've read and heard these folks are only getting 10 to 15K from the tires which then cost almost $1500 to replace (as Egon mentioned). So cost of tires in 100,000 miles will be $10,000 to $15,000 for run flats vs. maybe a grand for standard ones. Ouch.
When we bought our '06 Odyssey the Sienna run flats where having the same issue so we stayed away from them. See, some minivan buyers actually do some research.
Jim 10:44AM (7/01/2009)
Does the listed treadwear rating reflect the actual lifetime of the tires? If so, then this is BS. I mean, the Sumitomos on my car are probably only going to last about 18,000 miles, but I'm not lawyering up. They're treadwear "160" so I've been duly informed.
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remy 10:46AM (7/01/2009)
So let me get this straight..they are going through the trouble of suing instead of just buying a cheaper brand of tire? Seriously..everybody knows going to the dealer is going to be more expensive for stuff like brakes, tires and oem struts.
I can't wait to see if toyota owners sue when they need to buy 20" dubs for their venza's.
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extinctdoughnut 11:08AM (7/01/2009)
There is no other option guys. The only tire that works IS the Michelin PAX for the Honda Odyssey touring. The only place to buy them and with the machines to install them are the dealers.
Go5Go 10:54AM (7/01/2009)
Special tires.. and the 05 model had odd sized 17.5 inch rims? That would play into availability of replacement tires. Tirerack doesn't even let you pick a tire for the Touring Odyssey.
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gslippy 10:59AM (7/01/2009)
The $300 rebate on the purchase of a new car is an insult.
My 05 Odyssey was a lemon (electric sliding doors, among other things), and the court settlement I received was just as insulting. My revenge was to trade it for a used Dodge Caravan.
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extinctdoughnut 11:08AM (7/01/2009)
Guys, you could only get replacement tires from one place, Honda dealers.
We recently bought an Odyssey and heard all the horror stories so we steered clear of the Touring model.
I am a BMW enthusiast and had an e39 M5 with the runflat tires. The two tires are not even in the same ballpark as far as design and availability.
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