Filed under: Tech, Supercars, Nissan
Lies, damn lies and HP ratings: C&D dynos five Nissan GT-Rs
From the beginning, the Nissan GT-R's performance figures seemed too good to be true. Weighing in at over 3,800 pounds and packing a claimed 480 hp, the 3.5-second sprint to 60 and 11.8-second quarter-mile time just didn't add up. And then the tests began...
Buff books and online outlets began publishing 0-60 runs between 3.2 and 3.4 seconds, and quarter-mile times began dropping quicker than a co-ed's IQ on a nitrous binge. CARandDRIVER.com discovered a similar discrepancy between five different GT-Rs and finally decided to get some time on the dyno to get some real-world numbers.
CARandDRIVER's first tester ran to 60 in 3.3 seconds and past the traps in 11.5 seconds at 124 mph, causing C&D's scribes to suspect that Nissan engineers cranked up the boost on the evaluation vehicle. Shortly thereafter, two more GT-Rs arrived at their offices, both recording significantly slower quarter mile times and confirming their suspicions. Unfortunately, time constraints prevented either vehicle from getting up on the rollers. That would have to wait until Tony Swan returned with his GT-R after campaigning in the One Lap of America.
Surprisingly, Swan's GT-R performed exactly the same in performance tests as the first GT-R C&D tested. When they finally strapped it to MotorCity Speed's Mustang dyno, No. 4 put down 415 horsepower to the wheels, and with an estimated drivetrain loss of 20 percent (an average on most all-wheel-drive cars), that meant output was closer to 519 hp, rather than Nissan's claimed 480 hp.
Not content to leave well-enough alone, CARandDRIVER procured a fifth GT-R, which returned almost identical 0-60 and quarter-mile times as the fourth vehicle, along with 420 hp at the wheels on the same dyno.
You can read all the details at CARandDRIVER.com, hear Nissan's explanation for the discrepancy and see charts of both the dyno pulls and the boost levels on two of the five vehicles.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
jordan 8:16PM (8/20/2008)
lying liars and the lies they tell...lol
i can understand if each engine is built for each car and all that like they explained on top gear, but i would feel cheated if i ordered one and got a slow one(assuming any car that can get to sixty under 4 seconds can be called slow) instead of a fast one..
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clicketyclack 9:29PM (8/20/2008)
My understanding is that each motor is handbuilt and that explains the discrepancies in performance. Could there really be such a difference and if so what does that say for their assembly process?
EskimoPie 11:36PM (8/20/2008)
I don't understand that 'handbuilt motor' story like was on TopGear... lots of nice cars in the world have hand built motors, I don't remember seeing any wildly varying power numbers in those.... I'm sure the Veyron's motors are hand built... aren't Lambo and Ferrari motors hand built? I believe the ZR1's motor is hand-built... yet they all put out reliably consistent numbers except for the GTR... I don't get it.
pmiddle5 1:06AM (8/21/2008)
Ford GT's had handbuilts as well did Acura Integra Type R's. Tons have/do
James 8:16PM (8/20/2008)
C&D's article makes it seem like a bad thing that the GT-R is making more power than advertised. Remember the 335i? Weren't they ga-ga that it made more along the lines of ~350bhp and not the 300 reported by BMW?
C&D just confirmed their BMW bias. Worthless magazine nowadays.
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Mark Ryan 8:59PM (8/20/2008)
Whuh? Did I read the same article? It makes absolutely zero impression that making more power is a "bad thing." They write, "And the most likely figure is about 520, which is yet another reason to bow to the best performance value since the Corvette Z06." C/D is definitely huge fans of BMW and you can see their biases, but they're always fair with the facts and have the best writing in the industry.
aaron 3:09AM (8/21/2008)
james, was this just an excuse to rant on BMW? And it just confirmed it for you? People have been complaining for more (much more) than a decade about C&D "bias" with BMW. You're late to the party. Last time I checked, they keep giving awards to Honda cars (and deservedly so) and NO ONE COMPLAINS. No one wanted to seriously compete with the 3-Series (besides other German carmakers) until the G35 came out IN '02. No, the IS300 was a joke and doesn't count AND the entry-level IS250 is actually worse.
That propeller badge sure does incite alot of angry, resentful feelings. Hell, I don't have much but it is nice (a '02 325i). I am curtious when I drive and do my part to not look like a dick...but the days of the yuppies are over. Many bad drivers (or just simply asses) drive various makes and models today. 4-door trucks, Cavaliers/Cobalts, big SUV's driven by small-stature women, etc, are a selection of cars/drivers to avoid.
Obviously, some of the younger people on Autoblog must have been told by their daddies to hate anyone who drives a BMW because they remember the 80's better than their kids and bitter to this day about something that has to do with a Bimmer. Are there people that somehow buy a BMW that really can't afford it? Oh yeah. As bad as when people buy brand new trucks they really can't afford as well? No. Some people really buy the badge? Yep. Same goes for Mercedes, Audi, Honda (yes Honda), and that damn Prius...or anything that has "Hybrid" badges.
Guess what haters? Everyone is catching up as BMW squanders it's large profits on improving the lame X3, developing crossovers, iDrive, and concepts/ideas that only make peoples head scratch. We may live in a world soon where the G37 will be better than the 3. But both will be sure as hell better than that IS-chickcar crapfest.
Mark 9:24AM (8/21/2008)
aaron:
No I really hate my E60 530i. I really hate being successful after years of hard work and economic hardship. I hate having a sweet interior. I hate having a fairly reliable, high quality car. I really hate the fact that its a safe, comfortable, even beautiful way to travel to work/play/whatever. I hate the fact that my home dealership has some of the best customer service I've ever had(my previous car was an Audi)! I hate the fact that if I'm getting my car serviced or checked or whatever on Saturday mornings, my dealer cooks me a hot sausage, flips on SPEED channel and hang out. I also hate the fact that my car usually gets finished before I get finished watching whatever I was watching in their lounge.
Your rant is pretty funny dude....people need to lighten up!
BMW is just a car....just a pile of steel that carts your ass around to do the things you need to do/want to do....while being maybe a bit nicer looking and a fun, great handling car. Nothing more. Just like any other badges that are not under the scrutiny of the public.
"Hondas are reliable, thats why I buy Honda"
"Toyotas are reliable, thats why I buy Toyota"
"Hyundais are great value"
"Hummers are great because I have a small penis"
etc. etc.
Buy whatever you want people....stop thinking about what others are thinking.
James2 3:13PM (8/22/2008)
Your dealer cooks you a hot sausage? Guess you do get all the perks (if you consider it that) with owning a BMW.
Carlos 8:16PM (8/20/2008)
Nissan is full of doodoo! I'm telling...
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Franz 12:46AM (8/21/2008)
I agree. Shame on Nissan for giving people more power for their money. Bad Nissan!
Zak McGregor 8:16PM (8/20/2008)
What absolute poppycock. Nissan (and indeed every other manufacturer on the planet) quote flywheel or crank power ratings. These dynos measure wheel horsepower - after the transmission and other driveline losses have taken their toll. These losses are unquantifiable, so a guess is made based on thumbsuckery and arsepullery. Of course, C&D is the same crapsheet that brought us the Ferrari GTO vs Pontiac GTO comparison. Not only that, but the fecking GTO was declared the winner. Jingoist, xenophobic gutter press at its very worst.
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ale 8:56PM (8/20/2008)
hahaha... "absolute poppycock," how am I supposed to respond to that? Anyways, glad to see the old habit of "underlisting" of horsepower makes it return, well.. not for long anyways..
Michael 10:34AM (8/21/2008)
"Of course, C&D is the same crapsheet that brought us the Ferrari GTO vs Pontiac GTO comparison. Not only that, but the fecking GTO was declared the winner"
GTO vs GTO and the GTO won? Crazy! ;)
why not the LS2LS7? 2:09AM (8/21/2008)
The Ferrari GTO is a classic, and it's beautiful. But there's no question. The Pontiac GTO (2004ish) is far faster and likely handles better too.
Technology has a way of making old cars performance look tame. I think it was Fifth Gear that did Ford RS200 versus Subaru WRX STi and the WRX STi only lost by a tiny fraction on the track.
LloydChiro 9:02AM (8/21/2008)
Hell yea, I'm glad the GTO won that test!
De 8:27PM (8/20/2008)
Reminds me of when the SRT-4 came out. 215 claimed horsepower... didn't mention it was at the wheels.
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Marc-O 8:29PM (8/20/2008)
I'm guessing that given that each engine/trans combo is made by hand and finely tuned to work together, and that every GT-R is going to be a tiny bit different than the rest, they low-balled their HP figures to meet the lowest possible output a given combo could put out, so that people wouldn't feel scammed if they "only" got the official number of ponies. So, if you get your GT-R and find out it's got more hoses than you expected, be happy ! Bonus power ! Relax and go for a long road trip, enjoy...
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Red 8:59PM (8/20/2008)
That was actually my thought as well, that Nissan quoted the hp at the lowest possible output for any possible combination of engine/transmission. But is anybody really surprised? We all knew given its weight there was absolutely no possible way the car's output was exactly what Nissan quoted. A number of manufacturers do this. Honda, for example, magically just found 3hp when they decided not to get into a power war with Nissan, Mazda and Toyota and understated the cars output (I'm pretty sure the car's putting out more than even the "revised" figure). There are quite a few that go up (pretty much anything even remotely domestic and hot-rodish, like the SRT-4) or down (Mazda RX-8).
naggs 5:17AM (8/21/2008)
when you hand build an engine you gain higher tolerances, there will be less variation in hand built engines assembled in clean rooms