"Because sonny, people used to drive their cars."

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Exactly the reply I was hoping for

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"son, people used to make a big deal about exerting more effort to do what we do much more efficiently and with superior performance. and the best part is, we feel just as connected to the car."

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Performance is a good excuse for driving stick to give to folks that don't know the joy of manually operating a gearbox. /Why do you want to work harder?/ /Easy answer, better performance and gas mileage./

But for most stick shift enthusiasts, it's about much more than that. The control and involvement in driving a stick shift car won't be matched by automatics, not even really fast automatics with flappy paddle gearboxes. Stick shift manuals may no longer hold the performance advantage over automatics (sort of inevitable with the progression of technology), but I'll always prefer them.

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Anybody interested in a new technology that can maximize reproductive efficiency by minimizing the time required for pesky, inconvenient intercourse?

Thought not.

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@Mark Ryan: Umm, no. Sticks don't give better performance; "flappy paddle gearboxes" (like the ones used in Ferraris, Veyrons, Lamborghinis, IndyCars, and Formula One) do. And sticks don't give better gas mileage either, even traditional automatics with hydraulic torque converters match what sticks achieve in mpg.

Fuel efficiency of manual vs auto transmissions in some of the best-selling vehicles in the US.

Honda Civic (best-selling in May 2008):
5-Spd Manual = 26/34/29 (City/Highway/Combined)
5-Spd Auto = 25/36/29

Toyota Corolla (2nd best-selling in May 2008):
5-Spd Manual = 26/35 (City/Highway)
4-Spd Auto = 27/35

Toyota Camry (3rd best-selling in May 2008):
5-Spd Manual = 21/31 (City/Highway)
5-Spd Auto = 21/31

Honda Accord (4th best-selling in May 2008):
5-Spd Manual = 22/31/25 (City/Highway/Combined)
5-Spd Auto = 21/31/24

Sources:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/03/by-the-numbers-may-2008-f-150-falls-edition/
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/specifications.aspx?group=epa
http://www.toyota.com/corolla/specs.html
http://www.toyota.com/camry/specs.html
http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/specifications.aspx?group=epa

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I have a 335 and I can relate to the 'notchiness' feel in BMW manual transmission in question here. Originally when I got my car I didn't like the 6spd manual gearbox because of the notchy feel along with long throws. I even thought there might be some technical problems since everybody else raved about BMW manual gearbox.

My previous car was a Honda Civic 5 speed and I have driven a Subaru 5spd over the years. Honda’s is one of the best transmission makers in the world. I researched online and found that bunch of people felt that BMW 335 manual transmission had a notchy feel to it. I also read professional review but on the contrary found that most journalists actually liked the BMW manual transmission and thought it was excellent so naturally I was disappointed.

So I was a little perplexed at first but I thought it was too late to do anything (since I had already bought the 335) so I moved on. Long story short, now my car has 4k miles and I know understand why the transmission is excellent. First of all, I think most people experiencing the notchiness feel in tranny are not applying the clutch properly or new to a sporty manual tranny. Personally the ‘notichiness’’ along with relatively long throws in a MT is a good thing because it gives more of driving car feel rather driving a go-cart. It took me a while to understand this but I now appreciate a solid and heavy gearbox versus a light and loose one.

Now when I drive I Honda MT (2008 Honda Accord 5spd) the transmission feels like amateurish, MT gears designed for kids where all the gears within inches of each other you confuse which gear you are in and there is a lot of play in the gears themselves. Where as the 335 6-speed tranny is very precise, no play in gears you always know which gear you are in and solid shift feeling (when done right). No doubt the BMW 6-speed is harder to learn manual transmission than a Honda’s but once mastered it is very rewarding since it provides feedback with every gear change. Note: I am not trashing Honda, personally I am big Honda fan and love their powertrain.

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Since the comment system is broken I'll reply to this one.

I own an 07 TSX right now with a 6 speed box. My brother has an 07 Civic Si with a 6 speed box (he hasn't had any problems like people are reporting, thankfully). Before the TSX I had an RSX Type-S with a 6 speed box. I can't speak for an S2000 like the other guy cuz I've never driven one.

Aside from these cars, I've owned about 10 other manual transmission cars from Honda, and my wife has owned 2.

At one time in the mix I also owned a 325is with a 5 speed box. It didn't seem as "notchy" as the 6 speed in the 335, but it still didn't fall in to gears like I wanted. I've never had a problem not being able to find a gear on a Honda box... nor have I had problems going in to the wrong gear. If anything this would be an issue with the TSX, since the gear throws are extremely short.

Having owned a BMW before, and several Hondas, I'm not sure what's ameturish about having a manual transmission with a very positive feedback as to when you're in gear or not... as opposed to as I'm shifting thinking "alright... I've pushed through this much gear so far... am I done pushing through gears and am I in the gear yet? Or do I need to keep pushing through."

I'm not a fan of that. I drove the 325is for a year or so and was never a fan of it. If you've ever driven a manual tractor, or a plow... that's what it feels like. Manually shoving something through what feels like a SUPER heavy box. It's not an issue of me clutching correctly or not... I've owned over 30 cars, all but 2 were manuals, and a few motorcycles, so I'm pretty versed in all sorts of manual transmissions from different manufacturers.

All of that being said, at the end of the day, I just don't like the way BMW's manual transmissions feel. To me, very positive response with super short throws seems a lot more "sporty" than something that feels akin to pushing a stick through a bucket full of quick-crete that hasn't quite set up yet.

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I have driven Honda and Subaru cars (both have superb manual transmission) over the last 5 yrs and 335 is my first BMW. After owning those cars I really got comfortable and loved their 5 speed manual transmissions. First of all, now I personally think that honda/acura shifter have too light and short shifts which are fantastic for everyday driving fit those cars perfectly but I do not like the light and loose feel of the gearbox. For god sake you can go throw all the gears with a pink finger. Personally I prefer the 335's heavier gearbox since its has more feedback granted it might be annoying sometime while driving to the grocery store (but then again driving 35mph to the grocery in 300hp is very frustrating also :)

If you put a TSX/Legacy gearbox in a 335 I think it would totally out of the place since it wouldn't convey the heavy feel nor the power of the car to the driver. So I think BMW 335 gearbox is great for the specific car. I am no BMW fanboy but the gearbox really helps driver feel connected to the road and engine power. I can't speak for a 325 or any old Bimmer since I don't have any everyday driving experience with them so this might not be true for all models. Plus BMW sources transmission from different Getrag and ZF. 335 has the ZF while I believe 325 had the Getrag. Also, from personal experience BMW transmission's usually take about 2K miles before they soften up a little.

Most of this debate about BMW manual transmission comes down personal preference also. Also, you and I aren't the only who debating BMW manual 5/6 speed the E90post/M3post/bimmerfest forums are full of threads about this particular subject.

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I have driven Honda and Subaru cars (both have superb manual transmission) over the last 5 yrs and 335 is my first BMW. After owning those cars I really got comfortable and loved their 5 speed manual transmissions. First of all, now I personally think that honda/acura shifter have too light and short shifts which are fantastic for everyday driving fit those cars perfectly but I do not like the light and loose feel of the gearbox. For god sake you can go throw all the gears with a pink finger. Personally I prefer the 335's heavier gearbox since its has more feedback granted it might be annoying sometime while driving to the grocery store (but then again driving 35mph to the grocery in 300hp is very frustrating also :)

If you put a TSX/Legacy gearbox in a 335 I think it would totally out of the place since it wouldn't convey the heavy feel nor the power of the car to the driver. So I think BMW 335 gearbox is great for the specific car. I am no BMW fanboy but the gearbox really helps driver feel connected to the road and engine power. I can't speak for a 325 or any old Bimmer since I don't have any everyday driving experience with them so this might not be true for all models. Plus BMW sources transmission from different Getrag and ZF. 335 has the ZF while I believe 325 had the Getrag. Also, from personal experience BMW transmission's usually take about 2K miles before they soften up a little.

Most of this debate about BMW manual transmission comes down personal preference also. Also, you and I aren't the only who debating BMW manual 5/6 speed the E90post/M3post/bimmerfest forums are full of threads about this particular subject.

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Hey Tire+Tarmac.....what are those rims in your Avatar? They look sweet!

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Thanks!
You might have though of this already; they're from one of the only cars that looks good in orange - the LP640. I think they're stock, but I'm not exactly sure of the car's option sheet :) .

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Lets say BMW left the rear axle ratio the same as that of the M3, 3.154.
There isn't an overdrive gear in this transmission.
4.78, 2.933, 2.153, 1.678, 1.39, 1.203, 1, Reverse 4.454,

Top gear would be 23mph per 1k revs.
Wow, top gear would be able to push the car to 155mph at about 6750rpm.

Now if BMW changed the axle ration to that of the 330d, 2.35, top gear would be almost 31mph.
That would improve utility somewhat, but compared to the 0.67 overdrive in the 8 speed automatic (and same axle ratio), would you rather cruise at 90mph at 3000rpm, or 2000rpm?

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