Filed under: Spy Photos, Supercars
McLaren working on a successor to the mighty F1
Ferrari may have kicked off the era of the modern supercar with the F40, but McLaren took the concept to a whole new level with the F1. Letting a legendary Formula One designer like Gordon Murray have essentially free reign brought forth a 241 mph, three-seat masterpiece of which fewer than 100 were ultimately built. Others challenged the F1s throne, and the Bugatti Veyron eventually overtook its performance marks, but there is still nothing quite like Murray's original triumph.McLaren has apparently decided that the time is right to create a successor. They are hard at work on a lightweight two-seater powered by a V8 engine under the name P11. That's one less seat and four fewer cylinders than its forebear, but modern engine tech should be able to render something even faster. British magazine CAR has details of the new supercar that's expected to launch in 2010 in their November print issue.
[Source: CAR]
_opt_thumbnail.jpg)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Tom 5:44PM (9/12/2007)
very Ascari looking...in sketch form at least
Reply
Alex 5:47PM (9/12/2007)
I still think the Jaguar XJ220 would have demolished the F1 if the bean-counters (and the stock market) didn't get in the way.
...why is everyone laughing at me?
Reply
yenom 5:55PM (9/12/2007)
The new F430 looks good! Seriously.. thats not a bad thing. Its a beautiful design, and it should be a nod to Ferrari. Just looks at the G35 coupe. You see that design across many car manufactures now.
walletmuncher.com
Reply
Todd 5:57PM (9/12/2007)
Reminder - that was a 241 mph top speed in 1994!!!
2010 McLaren P11 = 300 mph top speed?
Reply
yenom 6:47PM (9/12/2007)
Also is was $1 mil in 1994.
2010 P11 = $3 mil?
zamafir 7:29PM (9/12/2007)
Considering some guy name Murray has constantly and vehemently indicated top speed was not a goal of his design, and scoffs at any car who's goal it is to beat the top speed of the F1, I'd wager we shouldn't look for any Veyron beating numbers.
I'm very intrigued to read the article, the current issue of CAR on US newstands talks about Murray's current passion, new company and new partners, all of which have nothing to do with a project like this, but are instead being focused on that damn city car he keeps muttering about every year. If Murray isn't involved in the gestation of this car, then I don't give a sh!t what name the put on it, It quite simply will not be better then the original as no car produced since has been – as every car since has lacked one key ingredient, Murray designing a car, from bolt to final product, completely unfettered.
Bryan 12:55PM (9/13/2007)
It's not as simple as saying 1994 = 241 mph so 2010 = 300 mph. At these speeds any mph over what they have currently done becomes exponentially harder and harder because you need more of everything (air, fuel, brakes, etc.) which creates more weight meaning you need even more power. This is a simplified explanation, but essentially I'm not sure that by 2010 they will be able to make it to 300 mph. If you go and read the stats on the Veyron you will see what I mean. It's an amazing machine!
^FourthDimensionGod^ 5:59PM (9/12/2007)
wow so mclaren stealing from Ferrari wasnt limited to the F1 team. looks like an F430
Reply
Eldiablo 2:26PM (9/13/2007)
They've got to make up their $100mil shortfall somehow...
Personally I hope it beats seven bells out of anything Fezzari can come up with.
DSK123 6:01PM (9/12/2007)
lol, I was thinking the same thing Dimension
Reply
2004m3driver 6:04PM (9/12/2007)
People that bash on looks, especially artist's renderings, and say its stolen are completely moronic. Especially the idiot that thinks the F1 stole cues from the Ferrari. I don't see how the F1 looks anything like a Ferrari. Get your ass out of your head please.
on topic: I thought the Caparo T1 was the successor to the Maclaren? oh well guess I could always use another hyper performance car I can't afford.
Reply
Preston M 6:22PM (9/12/2007)
McLaren F1 > Bugatti Veyron
Reply
sean 6:34PM (9/12/2007)
My dream would be for Mclaren to collaborate with Honda on this. After all Honda was Mclarens first choice of engine supplier on the original Mclaren F1 and Gordon Murrey used the NSX as a benchmark during development. Mercedes Mclaren gave us an uninspired uber-GT. A Honda Mclaren would give us an Enzo killer.
Reply
mk 7:11PM (9/12/2007)
Honda doesn't currently make a V8 engine, and the RL/Legend is suffering for it.
I am not sure that Gordon Murray used the NSX as an inspiration, either, aside from maybe a VERY long wheel base. I have read everything I can get my hands on about the F1, and from the sound of it, it was a fairly clean-sheet design. They mentioned that they didn't want it to be much bigger than a Porsche 911, when other supercars were bigger, both overall length and width-wise, especially the likes of the Lamborghini Diablo, at or around that time.
BMW set a VERY high standard with the F1's V12. The engine alone cost more than an 8-series CAR with a V-12. A V8 to keep that technological pace brought up to the current state of the art, will be a very special engine indeed.
I just hope it will be as no-compromize as the F1 was. It doesn't necessarily need to be a million bucks, or best the F1's stats. But if it is as pure of a design, even as a V8 sports car, it will be one helluva ride.
I still think that the swan wing doors, and three-seat monocoque-body arrangment is cutting edge now, about 15 years later. With Murray's obsessive attention to detail, I can't wait to pore over the new details of the successor to such an innovative, and fresh car as the F1.
The concept sports car in my head takes a lot of cues from the F1. With some bits of Ferrari's, Audi R8's, and the Artega GT's aesthetics blended into a fresh design, and a cutting edge midship V8, and rear-wheel drive, low weight and low Cg, uncompromized construction and materials... Sounds FANTASTIC to me.
If the P11 is anywhere near that, and probably beyond that, it will be a show-stopper, and likely a jaw-dropper.
Reply
Greg 7:39PM (9/12/2007)
Why doesn't anyone ever remember the Koenigsegg? It was the first to oust the McLaren from it's "world's fastest car" spot, and is still the only one that's officially faster. People can rave about the Veyron all they want, but I'd take a Koenigsegg CCX over the Bugatti any day. I'd take the McLaren F1 over the Bugatti, too.
Having said that, I hope the new McLaren will beat them all.
Reply
Nick 7:47PM (9/12/2007)
Simple. Swedes build Volvos and Saabs, not supercars. Koenigseeeeeegggggg may be fast, but probably put together as well as a 1980s Ferrari, and no pedigree at all. Boring.....
Reply
500 9:23PM (9/12/2007)
If they make it a 2-seater and eliminate the third seat, I can't put my baby daughter's car seat in the back. I'll pass. :-P
Reply
mk 10:32PM (9/12/2007)
actually, the koenigsegg is a nice car, but WIDE. The car is wide before the doors open to the sides and swivel up. It certainly does not get as much press as the Big Mac did, and doesn't completely re-define the state-of-the-art the way the F1 did. It builds on some of the technologies that the F1 pioneered in road cars.
The CCR/CCX is a very interesting piece though.
The Ford/Koenigsegg 4.6 DOHC V8 is tuned to a high degree, and twin supercharged with Rotrex superchargers, to 800+ horsepower, actually HIGHER than the McLaren's street-car horsepower level, which was in the 600s, IIRC.
The McLaren was not forced induction though, and had an amazingly flexible and quick revving engine, especially for having 12 pistons, but no flywheel.
It has about 100hp/liter in a ~6 liter engine, something that is still a remarkable acheivement. Usually larger engines have a harder time acheiving that volumetric output on atmospheric pressure, with more and heavier moving parts than small 1-3 liter engines. Modern combustion engine advances, and manufacturing techniques are pushing engines toward this... but the F1 was doing this in the early nineties. before direct injection, and some other things have become more widespread.
If the P11 project pushes automotive technologies in road cars as far forward as the F1 did, we are in for some pretty big news.
Reply
MikeW 1:00AM (9/13/2007)
Those 24 fuel injectors helped. (lower and upper)
I want to see a short 90 degree V12, route power forward, ala lamborghini countach/diablo/murcielago, to an 8 speed double clutch transmission, then rearward via a short driveshaft routed through the valley of the vee, to an engine mounted centrally located differential, none of this really offset stuff like the veyron.
Or maybe a V8, with a center mounted exhaust, keeping the crumple muffler at the rear.
btman 10:43PM (9/12/2007)
Free rein. Free REIN. REIN REIN REIN!
Sorry.
Reply