Mazda responds to RX-8 community's anger over leaked video
Recently a privileged video released without Mazda's permission was leaked onto the internet. In the video, a member of the Mazda National Dealer Advisory Council states, "Mazda is well aware of the negative impact on the scores caused by the RX-8 surveys. They agreed with us that the situation had to be changed. And so, effective July 1st, RX-8 will be continued to be included in the survey, but the scores will no longer be included in the results."For some owners, the RX-8 has mechanical gremlins that continually occur (a complete list of service bulletins can be found here). Squeaky brakes, for instance, are one issue that has received three Technical Service Bulletins, according to zoom44, an administrator of the rx8club forum. Some owners never experience the issue while others have visited dealers several times to get it fixed. Other issues range from repeated engine flooding to reported cases of engine failure on certain models in hot climates. Whether these gremlins are caused by faulty design or poor service work is a hot debate on the RX-8 forums.
The tight community of RX-8 owners, however, supports each other in their quest to keep the Zoom-Zoom going. To help each other out, rx8club forum members have even begun a listing of Mazda dealerships at which owners have had both good and bad experiences having service work performed on their cars.
This video that has angered RX-8 owners happened to be seen by zoom44, who attempted repeatedly to get a response from Mazda concerning the statement. After several attempts and no reply, zoom44 decided to post a link on the rx8club forum to the video that's currently hosted on Google Video (though likely not for long).
After the Mazda community tipped us off about the video and we watched it ourselves, we too were perplexed at the statement about RX-8 survey results. Why would RX-8 owners be surveyed if those survey results were not a factor for the dealer in the end? And more importanly, what incentive would dealers have to give RX-8 owners good customer service if these surveys weren't being counted? We contacted Mazda and encouraged Jeremy Barnes, Mazda's PR pointman, to address the issue. He's issued a response to Autoblog that's also been posted on the rx8club forum (#236) concerning the matter, which you can read below. Zoom44, however, has told us, "...a lot of this would have been not necessary had he just responded in the first place."
While a swift response from Barnes probably would've prevented the situation from ever crossing our eyes, we do know that Mazda PR, which as far as we know is just Barnes, has been preoccupied with the that has now become a tragedy. The Shipping vessel tipped over last week off the coast of Alaska while carrying 4,700 Mazda vehicles. This past Monday a salvage worker fell from the wreck and tragically died. While hardly an excuse for not addressing the statements in the video sooner, it's a unique situation that we're sure has made it a tough week for Mazda PR and Barnes in particular.
Whether or not RX-8 owners experience more than their fair share of mechanical trouble does not seem to be the issue here. If they do, Mazda's dealer network is obligated to service those issues under warranty, and from what we can tell most do. The central issue here seems to revolve around those dealers that don't provide RX-8 owners with acceptable levels of customer service and how those dealers are to be discovered and dealt with.
In his response, Barnes states, "...we have not stopped surveying RX-8 owners. There will be no change in emphasis on the level of service customers receive at dealers or the frequency of CARE surveys sent out by Mazda, and we retain our ability to take action if our dealerships do not deliver the service or satisfaction we expect and demand."
Barnes makes it clear in his response that we're not privy to the internal operations of Mazda's dealer body, so a satisfying explanation of what the statement from the video actually means in terms of how RX-8 owner surveys are now handled will likely remain elusive. While that response may not satisfy some RX-8 owners, we hope this situation will at least encourage Mazda to monitor more closely the way its dealers treat RX-8 owners and take action when one isn't meeting its obligation to the customer.
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August 4, 2006
To all RX-8 Forum members:
Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns regarding Mazda's customer satisfaction process. I appreciate how deeply you care about Mazda and about our vehicles.
As I understand, you learned of a change to Mazda's CARE survey process as it relates to RX-8 through a video posted – without Mazda's permission – on the Internet. Unfortunately, the video, which is only one of many ongoing and privileged communications between Mazda, our dealer council and our dealers, does not begin to explain our CARE process or the fact that customer satisfaction is our number one priority. In addition, that video is only one portion of the story behind our CARE survey, and represents only one part of the internal discussions that have surrounded the survey recently.
Because we consider this situation to be proprietary and confidential between us and our dealer body, all I can do is assure you that we are unwavering in our commitment to make owning a Mazda the best possible experience. To that end, we have not stopped surveying RX-8 owners. There will be no change in emphasis on the level of service customers receive at dealers or the frequency of CARE surveys sent out by Mazda, and we retain our ability to take action if our dealerships do not deliver the service or satisfaction we expect and demand.
Our philosophy has been, and continues to be, that we will hold our dealers accountable for situations that are within their control. As such, Mazda's goal is to ensure that our dealers provide all customers, regardless of the vehicle they own, with the highest level of service and customer satisfaction.
To assume after viewing a video posted on the Internet that Mazda would do anything to compromise this is simply and unequivocally wrong.
Again, I thank you for bringing your concerns to us and giving us a chance to respond.
All the best,
Jeremy Barnes
Product Communications Manager
Mazda North American Operations
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
alopez 7:48PM (4/04/2009)
The dealer will replace the engine of my Mazda RX-08 2004. But they will no change the engine until I buy the metering pump. I understand the metering pump is part of the engine but the delear representative told me it is no part of the engine . The metering pump will cost me $886.50 without the labor. I just paid two months ago $985 for the replacement of the spark plug, eletrical wires and labor. Please advise.
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Gary 6:59PM (8/04/2006)
So I don't understand what this exactly means for RX-8 owners like me? Will this hurt the RX, will this help it?
I watched that video and I cant grasp what is currently going on...
Any inputs?
Thanks,
Gary
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John Neff 7:07PM (8/04/2006)
Well, I don't think RX-8 owners really get closure to this issue since Mazda isn't willing to reveal how these RX-8 surveys are actually going to be handled or how much weight they'll carry when it comes to hold dealerships accountable for their service. As I said at the end of the post, hopefully Mazda cracks down on dealers that are giving RX-8 owners a hard time who are forced to repeatedly return for service. The reaction on the rx8club forums so far to the response has been just appreciation for the response itself. They felt they were being ignored essentially.
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Mr. Wankel 7:25PM (8/04/2006)
Basically: some dealers (a big some) are getting bad surveys from RX-8 owners regarding the service received, then the dealer council decides, with the autorizathion of Mazda North America, to just stop considering RX-8 owners ratings from the dealer average rating.
This can have the effect than dealer doesn't have to worry anymore about getting good ratings from their service to RX-8 owners... this making the problem even worse.
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Whydrive 7:31PM (8/04/2006)
Well serves the morons right for buying a Mazda in the first place. They're like VW - make great cars until you experience the first gremlin. then the second. then the a$$-reaming from the dealership.
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MattB 7:41PM (8/04/2006)
What does this mean for RX-8 owners like you and me? Answer: Even worse dealer service.
Since our scores no longer count against the dealership's overall rating, there is no longer a reason to try to appease us. The terrible service we have received will only grow worse. I have never had the major flooding, mechanical or electrical problems of some owners, but my service has always been horrible. I blame the dealership, not Mazda and not my car.
Unfortunetly what Mazda doesn't know is that RX-8 owners like myself, even after all the bad service, were considering buying another Mazda (specifically the new CX-7); however, after this news Mazda has lost a valuable Mazda owner. My next car will not be a Mazda.
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Eccentric car...eccentric result 8:10PM (8/04/2006)
I'm not surprised or too troubled by this. First, the RX series has always been a service 'adventure.' This goes back to an RX-4 my brother-in-law had way back around 1974. He sold it then for the same reason. The last generation RX-7 was also notoriously hard to deal with. Mazda gets dinged badly because they alone sell a rotary sporty car (both are finicky products) and can't fall back on the collective experience of conventional designs. You take that risk when you buy an RX.
Second, I'm not at all concerned about excluding the RX-8 from customer satisfaction surveys. In statistical terms the car is an outlier. Customers have probably valid complaints, but it has unpredictable effects on the general service department. For example, in areas where the cars are popular the dealership will sell more and get hit harder than areas where they are less popular (say, snowy regions where RWD is a headache). It is PROPER to evaluate a statistical outlier separately from the other items.
I'd personally consider BUYING a used RX-8 right now because the service issues have whacked the resale value hard. The '04 model had recalls, they burn oil, and have lousy gas mileage. Still, if you want a FUN car and don't need to buy too much gas it's a deal.
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craig 8:29PM (8/04/2006)
I imagine the reason they're doing this is that there have been a lot of problems with the RX-8 and it is hard to get a good rating on a survey if people continually have problems, even if the service is perfectly fine. So in an effort to not penalize dealerships because of problems with the *product* they're going to not count surveys that may potentially be skewed.
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pd 8:52PM (8/04/2006)
I almost bought an RX-7 back in 1980,but instead bought a BMW. After all these years and millions of dollars in R&D, the rotary engine still has the same problems it did 26 years ago. Just a weak design that they will never get right.
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John 9:32PM (8/04/2006)
So that early-talk about Ford emulating Mazda..... maybe they need to re-think that type of move. The mentality of making zippy cars with interesting technology that sell less than 100 units a month drove dozens of carmakers out of business or into mergers with other carmakers.
Seems like the high-ups in Mazda didn't get the memo that their per-unit costs are really high for these specialty cars that draw a cult following. Making a car for the helluvit and realizing later that you lack the ability to support such novelty has been the mistake of Mazda for years. They make trick cars that draw lots of interest. But then you get cars like the RX8 with this problem, the Mazdaspeed6 that early owners stated required 93 octane to avoid having the car go into a limp mode, and a Mazda3 that was basically dead last in consumer satisfaction surveys for the first 3 years of ownership. Mazda is one of the worst in terms of repeat repeat business because their cars are always novel - until you own one. Then it takes a true fanatic to keep taking the lumps.
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John 9:33PM (8/04/2006)
Yeah, that was supposed to be less than 1,000 units a month in my previous post. Goes to show you can always be too quick to hit that Add button :(
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Paulverizer 9:35PM (8/04/2006)
"I almost bought an RX-7 back in 1980,but instead bought a BMW. After all these years and millions of dollars in R&D, the rotary engine still has the same problems it did 26 years ago. Just a weak design that they will never get right."
Did you check the list of the tsb's? Most of the problems don't have to do with the engine or the fact it's a rotary.
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Roy 9:48PM (8/04/2006)
I purchased one of the very first RX-8's that was sold and had a real love / hate affair with the car. I ran into every problem that eventually became a recall or technical service bulletin and end-some. The service that I received was beyond awful. At each step of the way they tried everything they could to not repair the car under warranty because they couldn't understand how a clutch could fail at 7500 miles, front rotors (not pads) at 10k miles, catalytic convertor at 20k miles, spark plugs, ignition coils, battery............ A lot of these problems were addressed by the recalls and TSBs but I ran into all of these problems before these notices were created. In each case I was severely harassed by the service manager (at four separate dealerships). The North East regional rep has also been encouraging dealerships to refuse warranty service on RX-8s because it is happening too frequently. I thought that was what a warranty was for and that was one of the reasons why I was willing to buy an RX-8 in the first place. I figured that if they had any first year bugs I would be covered by the warranty and I had faith in Mazda that they would stand behind their product. Unfortunately that couldn't be further from the truth and I paid the price for it. After owning the car for 2 years, it had spent over 3 months in the shop and I had spent thousands of dollars on repairs that should have been covered by the warranty. Sadly my experience is not unique when it comes to this car. Which is a real shame because the car was a blast to drive when it was running right. The next owner of my car ran into similar dealership problems when the transmission failed. It turns out the failure was caused by poor service when they replaced the clutch. Which originally failed because the pressure plate bolts backed out. After the car was repaired they immediately sold it and the third owner had a similar experience when the motor failed..... Mazda needs to step up to the plate and acknowledge that they have some design flaws with the car and put together a plan to remedy the situation immediately.
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Joel 9:59PM (8/04/2006)
Wow, Mazda sounds like Chrysler! Only at Chrysler if you complain on the surveys you stop getting them in the mail. They don't want to hear about your troubles. or at least that is how it happened to me.
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Mr. Wankel 10:03PM (8/04/2006)
Listen smart guys commenting about the explodind-rotary-engine. It's not the car has more or less problems than any other car; I only have the squaling brakes. And most of the problems are not related with the engines, even with the "Vegas/Texas + auto tramision" problem, which is important, the engine failure rate is about 1%, which is the same as the Mazda 3 one, for example.
The problem it's the SERVICE of the dealers, and the rating they were getting from RX-8 owners. When you buy a "top of the line" car (in this case, the top of Mazda lineup) you expect a good service. I'm sure Mazda 2 users aren't so eager to give bad rating to an average service than RX-8 owners.
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Jeff R. 10:13PM (8/04/2006)
Just like its parent company Ford, Mazda cannot bring themselves to admit that they produce inferior vehicles. I've hated Mazdas for years and I think this article is living proof of Mazda's glaring weaknesses. It's also nice to see an article like this, because all the automotive magazines and websites gush all over Mazdas. I'm sick of the gushing because Mazdas are a fraud just like Fords are.
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Bill 10:37PM (8/04/2006)
9 & 15,
Wow, I never knew Mazda was that despised or made such awful cars. I hope the RX-8 issues get resolved, and that dealer service is improved. I am on my 3rd Mazda now (93 truck, 02 Protege, 06 3) and fortunately I've only ever been to the dealer for scheduled maintenance and one seized brake caliper on the Protege.
I know that personal experiences don't count for much, but I know many other Mazda owners who have never had problems either. Most are refugees from VW who wanted something affordable and fun to drive, but reliable and without service headaches. A few others grew bored after several years with Toyotas and Hondas.
I take Consumer Reports opinion with a huge grain of salt, but the most recent issue features the Mazda3, and proclaims it the highest rated hatchback in that category, beating out the Audi A3 by several points overall, despite costing at least 5 grand less.
Mazda has not done well on repeat customers because they don't really have a full line, and the brand was very lackluster during most of the 90's. Also, each of their cars is small by American tastes, but to some people this an attraction. When people grown up and need mommy-wagons, then they jump to Toyota or Honda.
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doglet 11:23PM (8/04/2006)
Seems to me that mazdas biggest mistake was having too small a PR department, if your going to side with the dealers against the customers you make damn sure they never find out!
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ZoomZoomin' 12:03AM (8/05/2006)
I was wondering when this would hit the more mainstream publications.
Mazdas are great fun, but I definitely dread having any problems. The service experience for Mazdas leaves a lot to be desired. Just looking at most Mazda service departments is enough to strike fear into the heart of a vehicle owner. It's another one of the reasons I also shied away from the 350Z (Mazda is probably on the same level, but the warranty is better).
I'm also pretty sure that I have a slight case of the squeaky brakes (at least once a week I wonder "is that my car" even though I checked my pads recently) and I might have the sticky-clutch problem on some days, but the issues are currently moderate and infrequent enough that I'm still more fearful of having the service department messing with my car at this point. Fortunately, beyond a couple of issues, my ownership has been relatively trouble free other than annoyances with some quirks of the design (moonroof & passenger window operation, weak seat bolstering, ...) and occasional brief boughts of odd behavior from the powerplant (high or oscillating idle).
Just this week I scheduled an oil change (I do the main ones at the dealer just so they're 100% verifiable in my vehicle history...just in case). Actually, I *attempted* to schedule an oil change. I know they got the request (that was confirmed), but they never called/emailed to inform me as to whether or not I actually have an appointment.
Unfortunately, the funnest cars also tend to be the more problematic ones.
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iQuack 2:28AM (8/05/2006)
As a former Mazda owner (an excellent '91 Protege DX) I'm starting to think that Ford is finally ruining Mazda.
I know, Ford saved Mazda more than once since the 1970s, but Ford is just too awful to not screw up whatever it touches.
Ford is a mess except for its affiliates and how long can Ford's decent brands avoid being sucked down the dumper by their inept parent?
I was hoping that wouldn't happen but......
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