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General Motors to bring range of diesels to U.S.?
Is the world’s
biggest automaker finally bowing to high-torque fans by bringing more diesel powerplants to the U.S.?During a talk with the trade publication Automobilwoche, an unidentified GM manager was quoted as saying: “We are developing right now two highly modern diesel motors that won't just fulfill the Euro-5 emission standards, but (also) the more stringent Bin-5 regulations in the USA.”
The engines include a 2.9 liter V6 and a 4.5 liter V8. If the report is true, they would likely be rolled out in various GM vehicles starting in 2008.
[Source: Automobilwoche via Moldova.org]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Jim3480 1:01PM (3/17/2006)
Well, they've already flooded the roads with ugly cars and trucks.
May as well go ahead and permeate the air with dirty diesel fumes. What's good for GM is good for America.
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goat 1:09PM (3/17/2006)
I'll consider buying one if they bring 'em here. Gasoline powered cars are wasteful and spew more CO2 than diesels.
Modern European diesels are quite clean. With the new fuel being rolled out this summer, we in the U.S. can finally get them.
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Steve 1:19PM (3/17/2006)
Modern diesel engines are not dirty. Diesel FUEL in the US is dirty in it's current form, but that changes this year. I think once that happens we will start to see more and more diesels on the market. Kudos to GM (for once) for actually being ahead of the game and having some form of a correct forward vision.
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PeterJ 1:26PM (3/17/2006)
Wow Jim3480, I think we're all a little stupider for having read your comment. What's it like to comment on a topic, the state of modern diesel technology, that you're obviously so completely ignorant about?
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Leo 1:33PM (3/17/2006)
I worked at a luxury import dealer from 1982-1986, and I can remember customers of the Cadillac dealer across the street coming over (after their 15th service visit for their POS Cadillac diesel) to look at our product.
I can still see the look of horror when we told them their one year old Caddy was now worth $1,500 in trade because the GM diesel engine was such a disaster. The product was horrible, and the company's response was even worse. They abandoned their customer base in a way that left the automotive world in disbelief.
I don't know if there's ever been a bigger customer service disaster on a vehicle in that price range in world history. And given GM's precarious financial position, I'm not sure I'd go there - even in trucks, and even 25 years later.
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cowboy bob 1:36PM (3/17/2006)
Post #1- you're right. They are ugly. Even more so than you imagine, because you are also right that what is good for GM is good for America. You might be convinced as the economic toilet flushes with a GM bankruptcy. Post #2- You are also right. Additionally, when the new emission requirements are met by the Diesel people, This will be the way to go. However, I think GM would get credit for being on the ball had they started this porgram 10 years ago, instead of waiting for the lightning bolt to hit as they did. I wanted a Diesel in my s-10 Blazer, but nooooooo. That is why it gives me 14 MPG. with a six-banger. Had GM had a clue, the new H-3 would have been Diesel, instead of an underpowered gas hog in-line 5!!! Jerks!
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Michael Karesh 1:36PM (3/17/2006)
Modern diesels can be very well suited to how Americans drive. I found that in the Mercedes E320 CDI most agreeable. The unit in the Jeep Liberty, on the other hand, sounds and feels much more like a traditional diesel.
My reviews of this pair:
MB: http://www.epinions.com/content_208751922820
Jeep: http://www.epinions.com/content_210733469316
A truly modern 4.5-liter could be very nice under the hood of the STS.
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WS 1:37PM (3/17/2006)
I'd love a Hummer H4 jeep-type-thing with the diesel V6 and a 5-speed manual.
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Jim3480 1:38PM (3/17/2006)
Peter J - Oh, I was/am aware of the clean modern diesel engines...new fuel standards coming online in the U.S...etc. It's just that I have no confidence in GM's ability to get anything right.
Ugly cars + ugly trucks + ugly accounting practices + ugly Board of Directors + ugly CEO + ugly union thuges = ugly diesel engines.
Happy St. Patrick's Day, all!
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bhtooefr 1:49PM (3/17/2006)
Hmm, I don't trust them...
They should have done this in the last model year of Oldsmobile, though. And, yes, I know, it was the Oldsmobile diesel engine that damaged the diesel's reputation back in the day.
And, the H3 is built on the Colorado platform, which is a rebadged Isuzu D-MAX (that's what it's called in places other than the US, it's called the i-Series here in the US). The Isuzu D-MAX is available with a 2.5TD, an intercooled 2.5TD, and an intercooled 3.0TD.
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TexasSteven 2:23PM (3/17/2006)
All too many people probably remember the Cadillac disater mentioned earlier in this blog, so...The General will have 1 (one) chance to get this right. I, for one, hope he doesn't blow it.
There are 2 (two) ways to claim independence from OPEC, and Exxon-Mobil. The first is significantly better fuel economy, which we don't seem willing to produce. The second is renewable alternative fuels i.e. ethanol, bio-diesel (to an extent), electricity, hydrogen, etc.
If our children are going to be able to afford to fuel, drive, and own a car (truck), we'd better get moving quickly to develop these options or we'll all be walking in a few years.
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whofan 2:43PM (3/17/2006)
The Olsmobile/Cadillac diesel is the reason Americans are still skeptical of the diesel.
I was in Germany back in 89, my girl friend had an Audi with a turbo Diesel in it. It was a wonderful car with good performance.
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klaatu 3:07PM (3/17/2006)
Well, if GMNA (north america) build them, I would not touch it nor even advise my worst enemy to buy one, but if GME (europe) build them, it MIGHT be okay.
Let's just go over a few of the "General" gem engines.
The BOP aluminum V8 1961-1963
The VEGA aluminum four 1970-1979
The Cadillac V8-6-4 1981 was it?
The Cadillac 4100 V8 1982 to about 1984
The Oldsmobile diesel V8's - all through the 1980's
The Oldsmobile diesel V6's - all through the 1980's
The 1991 on Cadillac Northstar aluminum V8 (gawd, you should see the write-up in a hot-rodder magazine about the litany of problems these POS's have)
Not to mention transmissions
The Turbohydramatic 200 - behind V8's (it had pressed steel gears) - the 1980's
Sorry, General Messup, but I've given up on you after the last GM vehicle I'll ever buy 9 years ago, and you'll never see me darken the doorstep of your dealerships again. Thanks for all the breakdowns, goodbye and goodriddance.
By the way, my son's first car was a Pontiac, and it cost him more in repairs than the purchase price of the car over 6 months; he got rid of it and got an old clunker Toyota Corolla and the car just hauled he and his brother from Michigan to California and back (doing Habitat for Humanity housing - at their own expense) 5830 miles with NO PROBLEMS. Kudos, Toyota.
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whofan 3:17PM (3/17/2006)
Hey klaatu,
Why do you bother to post on GM topics? Does the General still comand that much of your time, if not your presence?
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Corey W. 3:34PM (3/17/2006)
Actually, you can't even call that a true diesel. It was some sort of rushed, ridiculous, retarded conversion of the gasoline version, Oldsmobile V8. To bad they couldn't come up with a quick and dirty solution like they did for the displacement on demand engines. Low mileage vehicles having to have the engine replaced... Yes, very ugly time for the General.
I believe this is a good move for GM, a lot has changed since then, many GM engines have seen "Top 10 in World" status. If they don't rush this and put crap out there, it will be one of the many accomplishments needed to put them back in the game.
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Jas 3:51PM (3/17/2006)
Did you forget 22r toyota breaking timing chain guides around 60k. How about the 3.0 in the truck blowing head gaskets for no reason.Point nobodys perfect. Had a fleet toyota for the city all started burning oil at 60k. Went to fords.
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Richard Warren 4:39PM (3/17/2006)
This is true: The Olsmobile/Cadillac diesel is the reason Americans are still skeptical of the diesel.
klaatu,
The 5.7 diesels did have their problems, the early ones at least, however,GM did offer a gasoline replacement if requested and the parts and labor were paid for under warranty.
About 3 years into production (way too long by the way) the majority of the 5.7 diesels problems were pretty much gone.
The 8-6-4 engine it'self was not all that poor it was the 8-6-4 controls that caused the problem, way to early in the game for that.
As for the others, the Vega engine was much maligned however a lot of that was from the field, the majority of time that oil usage was valve seals, not rings (worked on a lot of those)
The THM 200 debacle problems did not last long, some early problems but fixes came quickly and in production, the transmissions were changed out.
The 4100 engine had a head bolt disimilar metal problem but most were repaired under warranty at no cost to the customer and the fix was not that tough, bi metal inserts installed into the block.
As for thos aluminum V*'s 61-63 the main reason production was stopped was the cost of production and actually the Olds engine was different that Buick and Pontiacs model the Olds design had internal differences and a 6 bolt head bolt pattern VS 5. The problems were not entirely in the design and manufacture, but with antifreze that was not compatible.
It might be pointed out that this engine was sold to Rover that used it for 35 years with very few changes.
Now during those same time frames you listed:
Toyota in the early 60's had engines that were not designed for American roads and would de asseble themselves with in less than 25,000 even sooner with increased freeway driving.
Late 60's Toyota 3rc engines piston seperation, under the top compression ring.
Toyota, automatic transmission failures, head gasket failures valve train problems, mid 70's to early 80's
Honda had major headgasket problems and engine failures 1976-1977 A-pipe failures that led to engine overhauls 1978, syncronizer problems 75-76-77-78-79
Datsun, timing chain and tensioner failures
Even the adored VW #3 cylinder valve burning
Porsche Timing Chain tensioner problems
Volvo, rear main oil seal leakage
I could go on but you get the drift. Everybody has had problems, it's the nature of the business, take a chance at innovation and sometimes you get caught.
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Car-la 5:53PM (3/17/2006)
Bring 'em here. I'm sure, once there is decent supply, people will warm to the diesel, and eventually a lot of them will buy it.
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len simpson 7:47PM (3/17/2006)
any info available on a diesel powered generator driving inwheel electric motors (no batteries) like our trains have done since the days of steam?
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Jason 10:04PM (3/17/2006)
I guess GM is hoping anyone who was around for their late '70s/early '80s diesels are either dead or, at the very least, suffering from some sort of dementia.
Seriously, though, diesels are a market where GM could be proactive rather than scrambling behind everyone else trying to catch up. It would probably be a good plan for them to market diesels as Saturns, rather than dropping them into Chevys and Pontiacs.
Are you listening GM?
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