Ford F-150 to debut hydraulic hybrid system by 2008?
Autoblog reader Brent drew our attention to a web site, called New Tech Spy, that claims Ford's F-150
will soon come with the Hydraulic Launch Assist system first seen on the Mighty F-350 Tonka introduced at the 2002
North American International Auto Show. And while it was likely always Ford's hope to put the system on its
F-series trucks, this is the first outside confirmation that we've been privy to.
At an
alleged 60 mpg, Hybrid Launch Assist would not only reinvent the pickup truck market, it'd likely turn the
industry on its ear altogether.
The HLA system is all about storing the energy that vehicles normally lose during deceleration, taking that energy, storing it hydraulically, and using it again when needed. The key to the technology is instead of storing the energy in batteries (as with most regenerative braking systems on conventional hybrids), the storage is hydraulic, which can be up to three times more efficient than nickel metal hydride storage. New Tech Spy says we should see the HLA Ford F-150 in its 2008 lineup.
It's an intriguing and compelling concept, but as Autoblog is unfamiliar with this website (let alone its sources), and haven't heard word one from our moles in Ford, the jury remains out on this super F-150.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Steve C. 11:15AM (2/14/2006)
Sounds very suspicious. To store enough hydraulic "power" to be able to power a pickup truck, you'd need a huge reservoir and a system that operates at very, very high pressure to function effectively.
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Bill 11:16AM (2/14/2006)
Am I the only one who just checked my calender because for I minute I thought it was April 1?
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Anthony Gentavoe 11:20AM (2/14/2006)
I think there is some good discussion on the topic on F150online.com. If it's true, I am sure they will get to the bottom of it on that site. If it's not true, these zealots will find the holes!
http://www.f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228782
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rem83 11:25AM (2/14/2006)
I'm curious as to how much a system like that would weigh and what kind of peak pressures you would see. It can really suck worrying about rust/accident damage when you have a tank holding hydraulic fluid at a few ksi.
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Hank 11:28AM (2/14/2006)
If this is true it's interesting, though back 2002 the idea of 60mpg wasn't part of the discussion, if I recall correctly. I think the estimates then were more realistic, something ~20%? Anywho, I'm glad to hear something about it. I'd begun to think they'd abandoned the idea.
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Steve C. 11:33AM (2/14/2006)
My B.S. detector was working when I wrote the post above.
Check this out:
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=12525
There is such a system, but the efficiency comes from using the hydraulic energy to get a truck "off the line", when gas consumption is huge. The improvement in gas mileage is expected to be 30-35%. In other words, a truck that gets 13 mpg might be able to get 17.5 mpg with a hydraulic hybrid system.
Not exactly in the same league as a Prius.
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Steve C. 11:36AM (2/14/2006)
The link above is:
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=12525
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Bocephus 11:44AM (2/14/2006)
What was that about American companies not inovating?
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Charles S 11:45AM (2/14/2006)
"Not exactly in the same league as a Prius."
No, you are right, but *IF* it really can achieve 30-35% *AND* it can do it on a F-150 truck, it will save more gas than the savings of two hybrids. Trucks and SUVs consume a LOT more gas for the same distance than smaller cars, so 30% savings of a truck can be many times more gallons saved compare to a hybrid. Since we will never convince everyone to drive a sedan, we need to look into ways to improve mileage numbers on ALL type of vehicles.
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Russ Owens 11:57AM (2/14/2006)
I am a MechE who has been researching hybrid hydraulics systems for about 4 years and this article is very unbelievable. The previous post about the 35% is a reasonable estimate. With CVT they could improve it some (maybe to 50%). Replacing the V8 with a smaller engine would help too, but probably wouldn't be done because you need the V8 for sustained power (like towing). The system adds power to the base system, so it will be quicker than the conventional truck with the same engine. Think of this type of system as a mechanical ultracapacitor (lots of power for a short time, but has low energy). Eaton has a system called Hydraulic Launch Assist, Ford had a similar one called Hydraulic Power Assist, EPA has a series hybrid system, and Permo-Drive is working with the Army (TACOM) on a heavy-duty sized system. But the best that anyone has shown was ~50%. There is no way they could get 600% increase without either violating thermodynamic principles, or use such a tiny engine that the truck would barely accelerate.
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Rich 12:00PM (2/14/2006)
Steve C. "Sounds very suspicious",
Suspicious why? Because it comes from Ford? I'm sure if the technology was introduced from Toyota it would be heralded as gospel, and the band would play amazing grace as the journalist preach accolades to the technology.
Fact is this technology first debuted with the Mighty Tonka back in 02, so I'm sure there is some sustenance to the rumors.
http://www.designnews.com/article/CA220671.html
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10636
This stuff is not hard to find.....
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Jerry Blatherton 12:12PM (2/14/2006)
Given that there was no such system actually installed in the Tonka Concept - it was a regular Super Duty drivetrain since they only knew of the theory behind that technology, I seriously doubt they were willing and able to produce a real, production-ready system. The song "Dreamer...nothing but a dreamer" comes to mind
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MikeW 12:12PM (2/14/2006)
Why doesn't just drop their POS 4 speed automatic (4.1:1 ratio coverage) for the ZF 6hp26.-for F-150
That would have a much bigger impact.
Drop the manual shift transmission, drop the V6, drop the 2 valve V8.
Rear drive 5.4 24 valve V8, 40mph/1K rev top gear.
4x4 4.6 24 valve V8 30mph/1K rev top gear.
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Rich 12:27PM (2/14/2006)
"Given that there was no such system actually installed in the Tonka Concept"
Referring to Ford media speach:
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10698
"For example, downstream from the powertrain in this vehicle is a novel technology we call Hydraulic Launch Assist - another great idea we are investing in very seriously."
"The Mighty F-350 TONKA, with this strong new diesel and innovative systems like Hydraulic Launch Assist"
Not exactly Mr. current affairs are you Jerry
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Nels Nelson 12:35PM (2/14/2006)
A hybrid vehicle such as the Prius has two sytems for transmitting power. The source of power-the internal combustion engine-moves the car by providing power to an hydraulic mechanical transmission which drives the wheels and/or provides power to a generator which then provides power to electric motors which drive the wheels.Power to the electric motors can also come from batteries charged by the ICE.
In the US, railroad locomotives are of the diesel-electric variety. A diesel engine provides power to a generator that then provides current to traction motors on the axles.
In Europe,some railroad locomotives are of the diesel-hydraulic variety. The diesel engine provides power to a true hydraulic transmission unit which then drives the wheels. These types of locomotives provide a great deal of torque. Southern Pacific Railroad experimented with these types of locomotive from a German company called Krauss-Maffei in the sixties.
Ford may be planning on using a hydraulic device much like the Voith transmission to provide additional torque for launch. Just a hybrid by a different secondary power.
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klaatu 1:17PM (2/14/2006)
If it sounds "too good to be true" (60 mpg Ford F-150) then.... you finish the sentence.
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Edsel 1:29PM (2/14/2006)
Nels Nelson (#15)
I was thinking along the same lines as you too. Twenty years ago I attended a demonstration of a four-wheeled fully articulated industrial grade tractor motivated by four robust hydraulic "motors" at each wheel. Hydraulic pressure was supplied by a diesel engine. It was amazing what this tractor could do because it had no transmission, no drive shafts but produced massive torque starting at 1rpm.
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C 1:59PM (2/14/2006)
Ford sold 901,463 F-series trucks in 2005, compared with under 100,000 Priuses sold by Toyota.
But since this system captures energy from braking, just like gasoline/electric hybrids, it won't do anything for highway mileage. Does it stop the motor at stoplights like the Toyota?
The gains will probably never have a cost benefit to the consumer, so the question is--will pickup buyers pay more for slightly better city mileage?
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bgdc 2:10PM (2/14/2006)
Wow, you guys suck at research. First, this is fairly old tech that ford's been testing for some time in large trucks. Where have you guys been? Mating the hydraulic system to a diesel should yield amazing results as diesels are far more efficient than gas engines at idle and low RPM.
Here are 2002 articles about the system in large vehicles:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/020925.htm
http://www.designnews.com/article/CA220671.html
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bgdc 5:03PM (2/14/2006)
**But since this system captures energy from braking, just like gasoline/electric hybrids, it won't do anything for highway mileage. Does it stop the motor at stoplights like the Toyota?**
Engines on the freeway can be geared for extremely good mileage if the tranny doesn't need to handle getting over 30 mph. This system propels a vehicle above 20 mph - that's when an engine is most inefficient. Using a diesel motor (they're insanely efficient at idle and constant, low rpm) one could get superb mileage with hydraulic assist.
**The gains will probably never have a cost benefit to the consumer, so the question is--will pickup buyers pay more for slightly better city mileage?**
You're not grasping when any vehicle blows the most fuel - from 0-20 = the worst mileage. You burn the majority of your gas getting up to speed. If you don't use the gas/diesel engine during the initial start-up then when the engine does begin to work its job is far easier as there is less rolling resistance. It's akin to always starting on a hill - there's no expenditure of energy to get moving.
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