Driving the Toyota Supra and Subaru WRX STI S209

In this week's Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by West Coast Editor James Riswick and News Editor Joel Stocksdale. First, they talk about the cars they've been driving, including the Toyota Supra, Subaru WRX STI S209, and the Mercedes-Benz CLA and GLB. They also discuss rumors of the Kia Stinger getting killed off. Greg Migliore takes a break to chat with Autoblog contributor Dan Edmunds to talk about the cars he's been testing. Finally, our editors take to the mailbag to help a listener pick a sport truck in the "Spend My Money" segment.

Transcript

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GREG MIGLIORE: Hello and welcome to another episode of the "Autoblog" podcast. This is episode 626. I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me on the phones from near Portland, Oregon is West Coast editor James Riswick. What's going on, man?

JAMES RISWICK: Oh, I'm in Portland, Oregon. I'm right in it. And as always, I am in my car in my garage, because my office doesn't have a door.

GREG MIGLIORE: That is a really specific now layout of where James is located. So there we go. And joining me from a little bit closer, you're in metro Detroit, is news editor Joel Stocksdale. Are you in a car, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I am not in a car.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK, fair enough. But we've been in some good cars lately. James drove the Supra. We're going to talk about that. We've got the other cars you're going to be really interested in, the Subaru WRXS STI S209. What a car. Mercedes, couple of interesting ones.

The CLA and the GLB. We're talking about the Stinger going away, possibly that's a rumor. We had a long-termer for a while, which we generally liked. Joel did a good deal of writing on that. So I mean, I think you'll agree with me. We'd be sad to see it go.

We'll catch up with our friend Dan Edmunds, formerly of Edmunds.com. No he's not the Edmunds, but a very fitting name, let's put it that way. He worked for them for a lot of years, like you did, James. And he's been doing suspension deep dives for us for a few months now.

Hope you guys are all enjoying those. He's going to tell me a little bit about what goes into them how, he does it. And just his thoughts on hey, the world crazy as it is at large right now.

Finally, we'll spend some money. Stick around for all that. It's pretty great. But let's just get right down to business, the Supra, James. What did you do with the Supra?

JAMES RISWICK: Well, this Supra is the 2021. So the 2020 version, I should say, because the 2021 is actually coming into our Michigan offices very soon. And the 2020 is interesting because it's going to be a one-off. Because for 2021, the six cylinder gets more power.

Then the two liter four cylinder is introduced. So this kind of six cylinder in the middle of them, power wise, is just kind of be in the middle. And it will-- I'm not sure how-- that might be a less desirable model year down the road, when people are looking at these as like a collectible item, or a used car. But nevertheless, even with the power that it has, the Supra is just a tremendous sports car.

I was on the first drive with this car, drove it on track in Virginia. And at the time, I thought that the track they chose wasn't really ideal for it. It was a little tight and technical, and it didn't pair well with its variable as the steering. But then out on the regular roads in Virginia, I thought it was far better, far more engaging, better in that environment.

And I thought the exact same thing here driving around on my mountain road. It is just so much fun. It sounds fantastic. I did an exhaust test, I'd say. Set the mikes up outside the car, as well as inside the car. That's coming soon to "Autoblog."

It just has such a like a fun, visceral feel. It does not drive like a BMW. It just doesn't. The steering is very different. In fact, I would say that BMW should talk to the Toyota people, because they could improve their own kind of box of parts there, if they took a pointer or two. It's much louder than, say the Z4. I've driven both those cars. I would pick the Supra every single day.

And I'm sitting in a BMW Z3 right now, by the way. So I just really enjoyed it. I like the packaging of it. It's actually quite spacious inside. It's quite comfortable, even though they have-- they have that adaptive suspension on it, which was added pretty much for handling reasons.

But the happy side effect of that was that it actually achieved a far more comfortable ride than they really intended to set out and create. So I'm a big Supra fan. I really, really enjoyed that car. And in fact, I enjoyed it even more this time around than I was expecting to.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's interesting. One thing that I think is also interesting is there is a little controversy when the Supra launched. This is back at the Detroit Auto Show, two years ago, I'd say. The last sort of real one, if you will. And some members of our staff said things like they really didn't like the BMW genetics, if you will, of the supra.

I think you and I were of the same volition that having some German dynamics wrapped into this thing could be a good thing. I mean, I certainly was anyway. But I've said this, you know, multiple times. I approach the Supra almost like in a very like almost agnostic level.

I've always liked it, but I never have been a true Supra fan, if you will. So I don't have these really deep, dyed in the wool sort of feelings. You, know I approach it the same way I look at a number of cars. Would you agree with that, though? I mean, that hey having some German genetics is a good thing, perhaps don't sweat it?

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah I mean it's-- I don't think it's agnostic. It's neither a good thing or a bad thing. like, since when is a BMW engine a bad thing? It isn't.

GREG MIGLIORE: Exactly.

JAMES RISWICK: And the thing is, it wouldn't exist at all. It just wouldn't exist if they hadn't teamed up with BMW for the thing. So I mean, consider that. And the thing is like, it's another point to be made, is just how playful the car is.

There's this little like chicane that leads from the city across a bridge that leads out to my mountain road. And the rear end came loose on the chicane, and with the traction control and stability control, in comfort mode and everything, and it was like wow.

That is so un-the Toyota you know of. And the BMW, the Z4 would not have done that. And it-- yes, it is related to the BMW. Yes, it has the same parts and the same infuriating pairing of the Bluetooth system. But nevertheless, it drives uniquely.

And that's the important thing. And if you get caught up in who made what, and what the part number is, well you know, OK. Then you're obsessed with purity, and buy something else.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I'm curious. Did it turn a lot of heads? I mean were people taking pictures?

JAMES RISWICK: Yes, now I live in Portland, which is a decidedly un-car city. It's just Subaru and beige blah everywhere you look. But parked out front, I've had a lot more expensive cars and luxurious cars parked in front of my house.

That is not the brag. That is just, you know, that's just a statement. And none have gotten as much attention as that Supra. Yeah, it was bright red. But I've had, you know, there was-- there was a bright orange Porsche parked a couple of feet away. And the Supra was getting lots of looks by people-- who, and even just neighbors were pointing it out from afar of course, as they walked by.

So yes, the answer is absolutely. And it's still a Toyota. So it's not, you know, it's bright red. It looks interesting. It looks cool. And yeah, it got attention.

GREG MIGLIORE: I can't wait to drive the Supra. I still actually haven't done it. Road Test Editor Zach Palmer I believe is going to get a super coming up this month, coming up here in May. So that'll be exciting. Maybe you two can have a, sort of a, I don't know, a this or that comparison and your thoughts on that.

A number of us have actually driven it, though. It seems like everybody but me. But that's OK. And yeah I mean, I will say this. I'm excited that Toyota was able to sort of find that sweet spot while the economy was still strong to partner with BMW, to develop this thing.

Because one thing I'm a little bit afraid of is we sort of teeter on the verge of a recession, is it cars like this, they're going to go away. You know, this is when the last recession hit, '08, '09, boom. Like every sort of niche product disappeared. You know?

Granted, Toyota did have to team up with BMW to make the Supra a reality, which is fine, as we've both agreed upon. So yeah, fingers crossed, stuff like this can sort of stay, without getting thrown out.

Joel, any Supra thoughts? I know you didn't get to drive this one. But you know, we got to bring in here any thoughts on the Supra?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I have definitely been kind of one of those people that was not thrilled at the idea of it being full of BMW parts. Don't get me wrong, BMW makes some good stuff, and their engines lately have been spectacular, even if I haven't been as thrilled with all the stuff around it.

But I don't know, it would be nice to see Toyota actually do their own work on a car sometime. I think that's one of the reasons I've been more-- I've almost been more excited about the Yaris [? Gizu ?] racing model than the Supra, because that's an all in-house crazy Toyota product.

Plus, one of the things that was nice about the Supras that had Toyota reliability and Toyota cheap parts. But I have kind of come around to the Supra, because it does look excellent. Back when they came out with the FT1 concept years ago, I was like man, that thing is super cool.

They just brought that to production, I'd would be totally into it. And they pretty much did. That's pretty much what the Supra ended up being. And it looks really cool. I dig it way more than the regular C4. I like the interior on the Supra more, too. I think it looks more sporty, and aggressive, and futuristic.

Where is the BMW interior is a BMW interior, which is fine, but not-- it's not something that gets you excited, necessarily. I am glad to hear from James that the Supra does genuinely drive different. And I'm really glad that the steering feels different. Because that has been kind of my chief complaint about most modern BMWs is that the steering is terrible.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK, well Yeah, I mean the S-- the FT1, if I recall I really got a lot of ink, I'll use that cliche back in '14 at the Detroit Auto Show. And we all thought, hey, is this design going to really happen? But it did, which is great.

But you know, to your point there, Joel, it sounds like you know, some of the BMW genetics, not everybody likes. Let's put it that way. So you were in the S209. I would assume you did like that car, kind of a hard fade there. But what did you do with it?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I just drove it around. I cruised up and down Woodward. I was hustling it up and down curvy highway ramps near my house. And like, I-- I was of two minds when it showed up. Because on the one hand, I was like this is really exciting. This is a super rare Uber super mega Subaru.

It's got all the gizmos and gadgets. It's got the center diff adjuster. It's got the inner cooler sprayer. It's got extra bodies stiffening. It's got a giant adjustable wing. But at the same time, like in the past I've driven WRX's and things, I've never been super into them, in part because I haven't always been into the old school turbo engine feel.

Where it takes off like, you've got to really rev it up for the turbo to actually spool up, and it takes a minute. And it just feels a little bit lazy otherwise. I like more responsive cars. But there's something about S209 that just everything came together about it. The extra power makes it even more exciting when the boost comes on.

The engine feels smoother and revvier than like it WRX. And I think-- I think what really got me with that car is it's extremely involving. The steering is heavy, and there's loads and loads of communication. Like, it's been a long time since I've driven a new car that tells you as much about the road as the S209.

Apparently, it still has hydraulic power steering. And it's super, super, stiff. The body is really communicative. The suspension is stiff. It doesn't lean at all. It's got really fat, sticky tires that just grip to infinity. It's exciting.

And it's visceral. And even like the, gearshift-- it's kind of a little bit stiff and not super smooth. But that also kind of gets you involved. It's because it feels like you're using a little bit of muscle, with the steering, and with the shifting. And it's fun and involving car.

And whenever the boost came on, I mean I was like audibly giggling. And going through corners, I mean you can feel like the wheels on both ends just kind of scrabbling for grip. It's an exciting and fun car.

GREG MIGLIORE: One thing I guess would be remiss if we didn't backup, why don't you tell everybody what the S209 is? And there's a lot of letters that go into this name? We're kind of shortening it to the quickest way to get it out. So why don't you just tell everybody what this thing is?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, it is basically the ultimate STI ever sold in the US. There have been lots of S series models that have been sold in Japan in the past that are sort of extra tuned up versions by STI, Subaru Technica International.

And this is the first time that one has been available in the United States. And it is, I believe it is imported as an STI, not as a Subaru. Because like Subaru sends them all the bits, and bobs, and frames. STI does the assembly work, and then it's shipped off to the US. So it's STI that ends up building the car.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting. I was doing a little bit of fact checking, a little bit of SEO work a little bit of just googling, if you will. And I was like what is the actual name of this car? Because different people have called it a WRX STI, S209. It's generally just the Subaru S, or STI S209, as I trip over it.

And you know, that's a really interesting sort of distinction to make there, Joel. It reminds me a little bit of almost like what Apina does. You know, they-- they're very upfront. They're like, we don't tune the car.

This is like our car. So it's kind of interesting the way that like this specific model gets that kind of, you know, distinction. So, I mean, I kind of like it. If you're a hardcore enthusiast, you know, and you love, you know, the STI. This is for you. And it's what, just 209 of them will be available?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: In the US, yes.

GREG MIGLIORE: In the US. Cool. And if you want to hear the exhaust note, you should definitely check out the "Autoblog" because you did an exhaust note. And I think it sounds pretty good.

That clip's up there right now. It just went up 45 minutes ago. So yeah, what else do you have planned for it? You still have this thing, or did it go back already?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: No, it's already left. I was sad to see it go, because it was a lot of fun. And some of the things that were kind of surprising about it, both positive and negative, was actually the exhaust note. Because on the one hand, it does have-- like it's got that growly Subaru boxer kind of verbal noise.

And it does come through pretty clearly at low speed. But when you're like cruising at the highway, or even when you go full throttle, it's actually pretty quiet, which was really surprising for such a flashy car. I mean, it has a giant carbon fiber rear wing, and it's got a wide body kit, big fender flares.

But it's actually pretty quiet. I actually have a family friend that bought one of these, and he removed the mufflers on it. He wanted to be a lot louder. And also, I was surprised. The ride quality is not as bad as I expected. It can get kind of bouncy, because it is pretty stiff if you hit bumps at just kind of the right frequency.

But otherwise, it's actually fairly comfortable and not super loud. I still wouldn't recommend it it's like a long haul cruiser. But it's more livable than I expected.

GREG MIGLIORE: Interesting. That's not something you hear very much about an STI, if you will, that it's actually a little more comfortable than you expected. All right, so cool. Let's move along. We got a couple of Mercedes to get to, the CLA and the GLB.

I haven't driven the GLB. I'm very intrigued about that. But let's start with the CLA, which both of you guys have driven, if I recall. I think this is a car that I remember when it launched, the big sort of sticker, or selling point, was that you could get a Mercedes for under $30,000.

It was a really basic Mercedes, and it was just barely under $30,000. They've since evolved this thing to be a little bit different. It's obviously well above that magical 30 grand mark. And it's out there.

And I think it still looks pretty good. I've heard some mixed reviews on it, though. So I'm interested to hear where you guys landed on this. James, you want to kick us off?

JAMES RISWICK: Oh, well I drove that on the First Drive event. So I drove the CLA 250, and I drove the CLA 35 so the new kind of mid ground AMG model, the 45 and above on that. Honestly, I remember the 35, more because I drove it more, and also wrote the review on that.

And you know, it is a clear dynamic upgrade over the 250. The optional seats are phenomenal. They also kind of-- they-- specifically they lower the seating position, whereas it's oddly a bit high in the 250. But it was really kind of unpleasant, in terms of the amount of tire and road noise.

The ride quality, and I was driving in Arizona, which does not have particularly bad roads. So that kind of got old quickly compared to the 250. And the price tag was like $64,000 for a CLA. And sure--

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow.

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah, the car we had had like all the options on it. It starts at 47 though, and even with a few, just a very modest-- which is around where the CLA, or sorry the C45 starts. And at that point, I mean, the CLA has the newer MBUX tech interface.

So I guess in a way, it's more advanced. But it's still a C class. And it's a real drive-based vehicle. And as good as the CLA is to drive, the C class I'd argue is still better. And for the money, I don't know how it really makes that much sense.

It does look cool. I will give it that. Probably maybe it looks a little better than the C, but it's still a C class. And to drive it, again, from a price perspective it's the big Spockian eyebrow raised on that one.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's a great way to put it. A Spockian eyebrow. And that $64,000 is a breathtaking price. When you think of the things you could get for that kind of money, when you decide to go down the road and you get a CLA, I'm curious who would pay $64,000 for a CLA, and what their reasons would be, when there's some nicer things out there. It is an interesting car. I'll say that. And again, I like how it looks. But Joel, I'd like to hear what you think.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so I just had a regular old CLA 250. It did have a few options splashed about. It had upgraded infotainment system, and ambient lighting, all those sorts of little interior flashy bits. And, overall I was really impressed with it.

Really, really comfortable. It had the adaptive suspension, so it could be firmer for sports mode, and softer for comfort mode. And it just glides right along over bumps in comfort mode. And then in sport mode, it stiffens up nicely. But without being too harsh. The engine in it is really great.

Even just the base one it pulls hard. It's really responsive. And the dual clutch transmission is quick and smooth, too. It's-- it's a really pleasant car to drive.

Granted, things change when you move up to the higher end AMGs, the CLA 35 and CLA 45. But just the base one, I was really pleased with. And like James said, it's a really nice looking car. It, especially when compared with the old CLA, which had kind of funny looking proportions, it kind of looked like they took a-- they took a CLS, and not only did they shrink it down, but they also like squished it from front to back. Whereas this just looks like a shrunken down CLS.

And it looks really nice. Got some practicality complaints. That roofline, as good as it looks. And I'm not-- I'm not even sure that I-- I mean, I would be OK with a compromise. But it makes it a lot harder to get in and out of the car.

You do have to duck a little bit getting in. And the headroom is pretty limited. And then the back seat is pretty much useless for adults. The leg room is small, and the headroom is even worse. I sat in the back of mine, and I had to lean forward significantly.

Like, my head was close to the back of the front seat, because I could not sit upright with my back in the back of the seat. It was not possible.

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow, wow. What, if you recall, how much-- how much did yours cost?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I'm afraid to forget I think it I think it made-- pretty sure it was like high 40s, or low $50,000.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JAMES RISWICK: With the number of options on it.

GREG MIGLIORE: Of course, I think it should be said that like even the $64,000 one, that is with every damn option on it. And Mercedes does put every damn option on the car so you can kind of evaluate all the junk. The cars you'd see on a dealer lot would very rarely have that much stuff on them. Just to be fair, I thought I should at least point that out.

JAMES RISWICK: I would be curious what the average transaction price the Mercedes CLA is. You know, I think, you know what do people actually pay for this car? Because I think that, you know, it looks like the MSRP is about $36,500, $36,600.

You know, that, you know, you get a few options. Maybe you get just a little over $40,000. You know, suddenly you've got a car that maybe is like, I hate to use the cliche, a commuter car. But you know it's certainly not something to throw the kids in the dog again. But you know, maybe for one person to go to the office in, or somebody who doesn't have kids, or a dog.

I mean, the car, just the footprint becomes a little bit more livable. In which case then hey, yeah, load it up. So, yeah I don't know. The CLA is just, I-- I have a long memory with this car. I remember testing it at the Automobile All Stars back in '14.

It was a very divisive car. Like, people were really all over the place on that. And it's interesting how some of these experiences, like sort of like when the car is young, and you're a little bit younger, really kind of sharpen your focus. And maybe set in your impressions of it, even as the product evolves.

So-- so there's that. But yes, anything else about the CLA, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I think another couple things to note. But one of the things that's vastly, vastly improved in this car over the previous CLA is the interior. Like now it actually has an interior fitting a Mercedes. The old one was kind of plastic and cheap.

And just kind of not, not very pleasant. This one-- this one actually feels like you're in a Mercedes. And that's a big improvement. And kind of toward James's notes about options and stuff, Mercedes doesn't give you a huge amount of stuff right off the bat.

There are a lot of features that you may want that are optional, and they can start adding up fast. And I guess one last note that it's not really connected to all this, but I do think that this, and also the A-class, which is a little bit more practically shaped, are the current class leaders in this segment.

Because the current soon to be outgoing A3 three is not very pleasant inside. It's very chintzy.

JAMES RISWICK: Disagree.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Really?

GREG MIGLIORE: The A3?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: No, I like the A3 interior.

JAMES RISWICK: No I like it. I mean, yes it's-- I think people-- I think there's-- it doesn't have a lot of bling in it. And it's kind of-- it's tastefully minimalist. I'm a big fan of the A3 interior. And I think the quality of it is actually quite strong. But it doesn't have a lot of like metal, and wood, or anything like that.

But all the switch gears, the high quality, and the plastics, and the things, I've always thought very highly of that.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I've actually preferred the current Golf interior to the A3.

GREG MIGLIORE: We've got a podcast here, I like it.

JAMES RISWICK: Fit those two next to each other, not a chance. Not a chance.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I don't know. I mean, when we had an RS3, I was like man, this interior is not worthy. Granted, the engine in that thing made up for it. But. I will say the upcoming A3, I'm very excited about that. The interior in that looks super cool.

JAMES RISWICK: I disagree. I think it's very ugly, and very like brutal. Like brutalist. It's just very like, it looked just like it's been hacked, and it's not like they're kind of classy, subdued, clean look of the current one. They just like went all like "Blade Runner" on the thing.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Oh, I love that.

JAMES RISWICK: Screens, it's very '80s. Like I'm not--

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I like I like the modern simple look. I like the crisp lines on it.

JAMES RISWICK: I don't think it's simple at all. It's the opposite of simple. It's very busy.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I mean, it's just-- it's mostly just like straight lines, and cuts, and creases. I don't know, I really dig it. I think it looks futuristic and modern, kind of cyberpunk. I really dig the new A3 interior.

GREG MIGLIORE: Did you just call the A3 cyberpunk?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: The interior. ourside maybe not as much, but.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's quite the description. Pretty wild. So James, would you say the GLB is cyberpunk?

JAMES RISWICK: Not at all. Well, the thing is the GLB and the CLA are on the same platform. And there are definitely some similarities between the two, the interior design quite obviously, it's not identical. But boy, it sure is close.

They have the same dual screen tech interface, sole instrument, or all digital instrument panel. The same three rotary air vents that look really cool. Same high quality switch gear, in terms of the power train, that's the same.

To that point, I would say that the transmission, I agree with Joel, is very well sorted, specially considered, compared to the last CLA, that front drive Mercedes platform. That transmission was not very good, was herky and jerky at low speeds.

This one is not, kind of behaves normally. The throttle response is still a bit mushy compared to what you get in a GLC, which I just recently had. And in general, I would say that the GLC really is superior to drive than a GLB.

It does feel a little more refined and fluid in its controls. It feels more Mercedes like than the GLB. So you, in my opinion, you are-- there is a reason for the price premium in the GLC. That said, the GLB in terms of its practicality is astonishing. It's a little box, and little boxes tend to be pretty darn space efficient.

The back seat, it slides. It reclines. And just-- it really provides an impressive amount of space. I'm tall, I set the front seat pretty far back. And yet, there was still enough room for me to sit behind myself in a subcompact SUV, which is-- which is really impressive.

There's a lot more space. If you have to put a rear facing child seat in there, it would be good for parents. And cargo space, again, that rear seat slides. You don't need it too. I do these luggage tests, try and fit all the luggage I can in them.

It was astonishing. I put-- I'm trying to look at the old photos here, but I'm pretty sure I fit almost as much, possibly the same amount in the GLB as I did in a Subaru Outback, which is a giant vehicle. If I just move the seat up maybe an inch, just slide it forward an inch, I could fit all five luggage pieces plus like a rolling colon Coleman cooler and two other duffle bags inside the thing, which is absurd for such a small vehicle.

So really impressive. Also, the floor is-- you can, there's a standard height and then it drops down one. So in terms of its versatility, really impressive. So there's like a lot of these small luxury SUVs, they really trade hard on their badges. Like is an Audi Q3 really like strong value for what you get?

Given that it's kind of a fancy Golf, really. There there's not a lot of practicality that you can glean it. You're really buying it for the badge. This GLB, though, there is. There's a practical argument to be made for it, which is really impressive.

And in terms of its value, if can get one for around $41,000 to $43,000, and it would be pretty well-equipped. I'm not sure what the one I had is, but it wasn't like to the nines. I did look at like dealers to see what the price range of them was, 41, 47, 47s were the ones with a lot of the toys on them.

But really strong. I like the driver assistance package on it. You kind of have to choose which things to turn off and on, because some of them get a little nanny. But otherwise, and all that tech is from higher-priced Mercedes as well.

So really impressed by it, the second time around. I think I like driving it a little less than I did on the first drive. But in terms of its overall package, I'm even more impressed by it.

GREG MIGLIORE: Interesting. I actually-- when I look at the value, you know, it starts at $36,600, which you know, seems OK. I think it looks really good. I have not driven this, but I am very excited to drive it. I-- I just think this could be a really interesting segment for Mercedes to kind of dive deep into.

And maybe, you know, capitalize on the fact that you know, there's a lot of people that would look at this as the gateway to the Mercedes brand. It seems like it could be versatile. It could fit the needs of a lot of different people. And you know, again, the interior looks like a winner. You know, just kind of checking out, checking out the pictures.

And you know, seems like there's some real, real potential here for this thing. Let's put it that way. At first, when they like decide to roll out the GLB name, it's like oh jeez, what is this thing? But then when you kind of read up on it, and kind of just, you know, get into a little bit, it does make a lot of sense, I think. So some more to come there, I guess. Any GLB further thoughts there, James?

JAMES RISWICK: No, not really. I would say, though, that it's not the sportiest thing. So although I haven't driven the AMG version, I don't-- that seems-- that's probably a bit pointless. I think this should-- this really does like practicalities. Its practicality, that's great.

Considering that you get almost as much, like it's approaching, seriously, it's approaching like CRV RAV4 levels, really. So its ability to do that with the demonstrably higher quality interior, more refinement, that really is a compelling package, as far as I'm concerned.

GREG MIGLIORE: Interesting. All righty. Well let's move along to the new segment here. We're going to keep this one kind of quick, because there's so much going on. What we're doing on the podcast is some weeks, we're going to dive deeply if you will, into the news.

Some weeks, we're talking about the cars, and maybe just pull one or two things out that we find just kind of interesting. So we did hear rumors that the Stinger may be going away. Check the post out on "Autoblog" of course. And obviously, I was a little bit disturbed, because I really enjoyed the long term Stinger we have.

I think it was a pretty, you know, one of our better long-termers. And it was, you know, I'd be sad to see it go. Joel, I know you wrote a lot about the Stinger. You did some of our long-term updates. Kind of what's your take on this?

- It's an orange car.

GREG MIGLIORE: Hey, we've got a guest star on the "Autoblog" podcast. This is my son Andrew, who has joined us.

JAMES RISWICK: Did he just say orange car?

GREG MIGLIORE: Yes, he's looking at the Stinger.

JAMES RISWICK: Because that's the picture on our story.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: The orange Stinger GTS. Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: So that's the Stinger. And Andy obviously doesn't want it to go away. Oh, but he's outside now along with the dog. So let's go on and continue. I guess, sorry about the other option. This is actually the second straight week that Andy's been on the podcast.

And that's OK. Anyways, the Stinger. Longterm, or orange car. It's orange, if they keep making it. What-- I assume Joel, you would be sad to see it go? Because I sort of associated that long termer kind of with you. You know, you wrote a lot about it.

You drove it a lot you know, I had fun with it. But it seemed like I kept kind of-- I mean, I definitely wasn't avoiding it. But I didn't spend a ton of time on that car. So I'm curious, curious what you think. What your take on this is.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I really enjoy the Stinger. I think it looks fantastic. I think it drives great. And it's good value for money. You get a lot of car for-- for a low price. And yeah, I would absolutely be sad to see it go. At the same time, I wouldn't be that surprised if it goes away, just because it's kind of a weird car for Kia.

I mean, it's got the Kia looks and everything. But it's sort of a halo car that I feel like doesn't, you know, I feel like not a whole lot of the rest of the Kia lineup really connects with it. Like the next sportiest car in their lineup is the Forte GT. Which I haven't driven yet.

I'm sure it's probably plenty enjoyable, it should be a lot like the Elantra GTN line. It's got the same engine and transmission. But it's not going to come close to a big, rear-drive turbo charged sports sedan.

JAMES RISWICK: I think it actually is, though, fairly consistent with the brand, in that it's youthful, it's sporty. It is distinctive, as opposed to the, you know, the Credenza as I call it. And the K-900, which is so not that brand at all.

The Kia a brand is, you know, tied to the NBA in this country, and cool things, and they had, you know, hip hop hamsters. And like the Stinger is far more akin to that than their fancy pants stuff. And at the same time, I think it serves as kind of the halo vehicle for it.

Now is the Telluride perhaps better in that regard? Maybe. But maybe that can point the way for their SUVs, where the Stinger, I think you did see some of the-- that you know, that's-- that's-- that's the halo. And then the other cars can follow that.

And I think at the time, I went on the first drive for this car, and you know, Kia did not have high sales hopes for this. They knew what they were doing, because if they didn't. If they thought that a $50,000 high performance rear wheel drive sports sedan from Kia was going to be the next big thing, I think they-- would have asked them what are you smoking and do you need help?

So the fact that its slow sales might lead to its downfall, I'm not really buying that. Because I think it was never going to sell that well. The fact that perhaps, you know, a recession and coronavirus related things will cause them to, you know, cut things that don't sell well, I think that's the stronger possibility here.

Because if you need to direct resources elsewhere, this is something that doesn't need to be made. But in terms of you know, in terms of its actual development, you know, this was really the rear-drive platform, its powertrain was developed for genesis.

It was so-- and as the redheaded stepchild of the Hyundai group, they were given-- Kia was given the parts, and here, you can go make your stinger. But the development was done for Genesis. So yeah, I don't think it would be that big of a financial loss for them.

It also wouldn't be that surprising for them to cancel it. But I think it would be more because of coronavirus, and the economic fallout then because of-- a result that was different from what they were expecting from the get go.

GREG MIGLIORE: I agree with that. And I think, you know, we talked off the top here about the Supra, maybe you know, we were glad that a car like this was able to sort of get in before this economic situation we now find ourselves in. The Stinger, of course, they'd get in as well.

But now it's kind of got to find a way to tread water, justify its existence. And you know, again, like I said before, the Singer I think is a really good car. It's a really interesting car. But I'm also not necessarily sure Kia needs it at this point.

Like, I think they're trying to use it to build a halo for an image that they don't really support. Which you know, I think Kia obviously, you know, they're in Motorsports. You know, they have some very interesting tunings, and setups, and power trains. But do you need a rear wheel drive, you know, a sports sedan?

I mean, I just wrote a story on the demise of the Impala and the Marauder, kind of looking back at them. Those are like dinosaurs. You know, so I think it's kind of interesting that outside of, you know FCA, which is really hanging onto the Charger and the 300, and the Challenger. Because frankly, those are about the only cars they have.

So they kind of have to do rear wheel drive and sedans, and see what they can make with it. Kia doesn't necessarily seem like the obvious choice to keep this up. But you know, we'll see.

JAMES RISWICK: Well you know, maybe the fact that it does-- maybe it doesn't need to go six years. Maybe the fact that it came out, it made a splash, everybody wrote a million things about it. There was interesting commercials. It got to be featured on, you know, in NBA stadiums, and on commercials during the NBA.

And it was a brand-- as a brand exercise, maybe that's all it needed to be. And if that's what it was then you know, mission successful. If people did start thinking of Kia as something other than economy cars, great. And that's something that I'm sure that we'll see even strong-- with the Telluride.

Which definitely did a better job of elevating the brand, largely because SUVs are now, you know, how you do that then rear drive sports sedans. 10 years ago, maybe we're talking, maybe it would have been a lot more successful, kind of like a Infinito G35 was back in the day for Infiniti. But you now, if it's just successful at elevating Kia in some people's minds, maybe that's all it needed to be.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, and just some kind of scattered Stinger thoughts from listening to you guys, I wouldn't give up total hope about the Stinger going away. Because as James mentioned, Kia has supported vehicles that do not sell well. I mean, the K900 especially.

And that doesn't have the same-- I don't think that has the same halo effect as the Stinger does.

GREG MIGLIORE: No. No I forgot out about the K900 until you brought that up. I would say, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Joel.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: And Hyundai Kia, I think in general, is not afraid to spend money on things that may not be-- that may not make sense on paper. I mean, just look at their continuing mid-engine sports car development. I don't know.

I don't know how that's going to pay off for them at all. But they are clearly set on doing that. I mean, Hyundai Kia is willing to put money into things that don't necessarily make sense. Because they clearly think that-- clearly they think it has some merit for them.

Also, with the Stinger in general, I think the fact that it's a relatively large sedan that's kind of their super sporty car is also kind of an odd-- it's kind of an odd thing. I mean, the Charger does it. But also the Charger kind of has like a built in market for it already.

People that want the old school muscle car, with the V8 noise, and things like that. And even though, like I wrote a comparison of the Charger and the Stinger. And I thought that as a whole package, I think the Stinger is better. I don't think it's actually going to get that many Charger buyers, and that kind of leaves other larger-- like larger rear drive sports sedan buyers.

And most of those I think want something fancier than a Kia. At least as far as badges go, so that pride doesn't help it. Which kind of leads me to something that I've been thinking, and I may be completely off my rocker. But I sort of wish Kia had done like a two-door coupe based on this platform as opposed to a pretty big sedan.

And maybe even like just use the turbo four cylinder in it, price it a little bit lower, and have sort of like a premium Mustang competitor. I don't know, I mean, I may be off my rocker. What do you guys think?

GREG MIGLIORE: I actually think from a halo perspective, I kind of see where you're going there. Because a rear wheel drive sedan is really just such a niche product that's come and gone over the course of the last like, really, 30 years. You know, after like mainstream rear wheel drive cars sort of went out of the mainstream, you know, segment.

I could have seen a coupe. I could see how that could work. Let me put it that way. It would be-- it might have perhaps been targeted a little bit more towards maybe some of Kia's traditional buyers who are already in the fold. And think hey, this looks cool. Let's give this a shot.

Whereas once you put four doors into it, I think you sort of change it a little bit, obviously. But I think you also change the mission, the ethos, and what you're trying to do. So that's maybe the product planning, your secret product planning for Kia there, Joel.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Wouldn't we all like to be product planners for automakers? We'd have just such more exciting lineups. They'd probably hardly profitable at all, but they sure would be exciting while they bankrupted the company in the course of a year.

[LAUGHTER]

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, so as you may hear in the background, that Blue the dog. She's my other co-host today for the podcast, and she also is sad to see the stinger potential to go away. We should note obviously none of this is confirmed. This is kind of a rumor mill post.

But I think it's pretty good for discussion. OK, so let's bring in Dan Edmunds, longtime writer for Edmunds.com. Lot of experience and off roading and any EVs. All sorts of things. He's been doing some really interesting suspension deep dives for us.

So this is my conversation with him recently let's listen in. So joining us now on the show is Dan Edmunds you probably know his work over the years from Edmunds.com, longtime editor there. He's been contributing to Autoblog.com for a few months now. I'm really excited to have some of his his articles his insight on Autoblog.

You've probably noticed most chiefly though, the suspension deep dives. Danced on them on a number of different vehicles, which are pretty cool. It's a good look, basically at how these things are set up. They're done from a technical perspective, but I think they're also literate enough that, you know, anybody can really understand them, especially if you're really into cars, things like the I-Pace is pretty cool, the Subaru Outback.

I thought that was a neat one. And of course everybody loves the Supra and the Wrangler. You know, really play the hits there. So Dan, thanks for being on the show. How you doing?

DAN EDMUNDS: I'm doing great. Yeah, a little stir crazy. But I'm fine.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, well obviously you're still getting into some cars, which is a great thing. Why don't you kind of give us the origin of how suspension deep dives have come about?

DAN EDMUNDS: Yeah, well you know, to go back a little bit, before I got into journalism, I was an automotive engineer. And I worked for Toyota for 10 years, and Hyundai Kia Technical Center for almost six. And I did suspension development for a living there.

And then I got into working at Edmunds as the director the testing group, which was a really interesting opportunity. And I want to try a change. And somewhere along the line, you know, we had this long term test blog.

And there was maybe 16 or 18 cars in the fleet, and all the editors drove them nightly, and rotated through them every couple of days. And the deal was, though, you needed to produce a blog post every two to four days on the car you drove. And they could be really short vignettes, like hey, my mountain bike fits in the back of this Outback, right?

Take a couple of pictures, write about 50 words, boom, done. But of course, me being me, and you probably noticed that I tend to write long, but I kind of was in a situation where I had this car, it was a Honda fit. And everything had been talked about on this car.

You know? There was nothing really new to speak about. So I decided it needed a tire rotation. And so I jacked up one side of it to do that, and then I thought huh, I'll take some pictures of the suspension, and put those up. So I just took two pictures of the front, and two pictures of the rear, and wrote a little bit about what people were looking at.

And that car has a magic seat, the gas tank's low. So there's a couple of things I could point out in these four pictures. And I don't know, everybody just loved it. You know, our normal blog commentary would have this kind of snarky back and forth. And you know, people were arguing with themselves, and usually kidding on the editors' case for misspelling something, or you know, that kind of thing.

But when these went up, A, the comments were all positive, and there's a lot of questions. And, also there was a lot more of them. And so I thought I mean, maybe I have something here. So I did another one. And that time, I had like eight pictures.

And people were really into it. But they said, I don't know what you're talking about. So then you probably noticed these things are littered with colored arrows. And so, I started to put these arrows on there to point out what pieces I was talking about. And that's when it really lit fire.

And probably this was all for inside line, if you remember Edmunds had that really cool magazine format for a while. But they shuttered it, because it didn't bring in ad revenue, or something. And so anyway that inside line, I probably get 70 of these things.

But that was eight years ago, or seven years ago, to the last one. And in that an intervening time, there was always comments to the Edmunds, you know, customer service line. Hey, what's up with these things? I'd get questions through my social media.

When are you going to start doing that again? So of course, as soon as I was no longer working at Edmunds, I thought well, I've got to freelance. I know this one thing I can do. And I have a 4Runner out in my driveway. So that's when I took pictures of that, wrote up a suspension walk around, which is the name we use there.

But we decide to call them deep dives, which fits in, I like it better. And yeah. It and you guys decided that you'd take a chance on it. And it seems like we're picking up right where we left off with interest and people sharing them around. And that's great.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I mean I think they're doing really well on site. You know, it's-- you know, not to plume your feathers if you will. But they're great, you know, good pieces of content, you know, from a just being thorough and interesting. Our commenters have been very engaging, and very intrigued by them.

And they've done well on social media. So obviously that's-- when you get sort of hit that hat trick, you want to keep doing content like that. I'm curious, like how long does it take to do one? Like, you did the-- you know, you did the Jaguar I-Pace. How long does that take? What's a typical day or event like when you do a suspension deep dive?

DAN EDMUNDS: Well normally, you know, I will get the car. And the biggest problem is really just getting the cars that are interesting. But right now, that's not too much of a problem. And you know what? I've discovered back in the Inside Line days is that every car is interesting in its own way.

Sometimes by being uninteresting, they're interesting, if that makes sense. But-- and because you can always learn something. Everybody's making different decisions. What you learn as is everybody's trying to develop a good car. But nobody can agree on how to do that.

And you see that a lot underneath. So but to answer your question, I have a floor jack and a jack stand. And some tools that I use, and I basically just do what it looks like I do. I jack it up, I pull off the front wheel first. I stick my head in there and look around for a while, and start snapping pictures.

And then, you know, I put the front wheel on, go to the back, and do the same thing there. And taking the pictures probably only takes me two hours, maybe. But then, that's not really the end of it. Because then I bring the pictures and I start looking at them on the big screen here.

And I start deciding, you know, obviously when I'm taking the pictures I have to plan out what I'm going to say. And make sure I frame the shot so that the components I want to talk about are prominent in certain shots. And so I have to kind of go through what I've shot, and pick the best ones for that.

But then there's a little bit of research that goes on. I have-- sometimes I'll call up an automaker, and talk to somebody about what I'm seeing to see if I'm understanding it right. Sometimes they'll answer my questions, and sometimes they won't. And a lot of it, I just kind of know from my own experience doing it professionally myself.

Although, I was a suspension tuner, I was the one who would choose the spring rate, the stabilizer bar diameter, the bushing hardness, and the valving inside the shock absorber. I didn't actually design the hard points or the layout, or the suspension.

So there's still a little bit I may have to ask somebody. And so that takes time. But funny you should mention the I-Pace, because the I-Pace, I took all these pictures. And as you remember, there's one aspect of that car that's a little bit weird. Well, there's three.

But one of them was that the brakes and the steering were on the same side, and trying to occupy the same space. I didn't notice that when I was taking the pictures. I only noticed that in the edit. I'm like, oh my god. And, luckily I'd taken enough pictures that showed it that I was able to use that.

But I almost missed it, just because-- and that's the thing is when I'm under there, I can't say I catch everything. But certainly, that's why there's a lot of post-production, you know, playing around with which pictures to use, and that sort of thing. And then trying to figure out what I want to say exactly. So yeah, that takes it takes a bit more time.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's really interesting I think. You know, the I-Pace is, I think, a good example of just, you know, a car that's out there. And it's really interesting. It's a style play. It's an electric play. Did you notice anything else about the suspension that maybe was unique to how they tried to set it up for what Jaguar was trying to accomplish? You know, for that vehicle sort of mission, if you will?

DAN EDMUNDS: I think you know a lot of what I saw on the suspension is the way it is because they're trying to get a big battery in there. And I think that's a big concern, or not concern, but it's big-- that's why they had that particular type of rear suspension was used, because it doesn't have any links that stick forward that would intrude into places where they won't have battery cells.

And so you know, a lot of what you see in suspension is packaging. You know, trying to make it so that the rear seat has comfort, and that the trunk has trunk volume. And that, you know, we used to see-- I know there was a thing going around on the internet about the Honda Crosstour, remember that?

And that had like a coil over rear strut, and the spring was so big that it intruded into the cargo space. And so that was the situation where the choice of suspension really kind of screwed up the cargo area. And so a lot of times when you're looking at a suspension, you're seeing not just what's best for ride and handling, but also for packaging.

GREG MIGLIORE: Now maybe-- I know you've been doing these, you know, off and on for years. What's just the biggest surprise you've had when you ever got underneath a car, and just looked under there? Well I mean, biggest surprise, or weirdest thing. You know, tell me a tale, if you will.

DAN EDMUNDS: Well the weirdest one is one that never made it to a suspension walk around, because I don't know if it was something that hadn't invented yet, or I think it might have been that. But it was the Kia Rondo. If you remember the Kia Rondo.

GREG MIGLIORE: I do. I actually-- when I was at Auto Week, I actually probably messed up the suspension of a Kia Rondo. I ran over a curb.

DAN EDMUNDS: Was it the rear suspension?

GREG MIGLIORE: I think it would have been the rear.

DAN EDMUNDS: Wow, well you escaped with your life. No, I'm kidding. The weird thing about this, and I actually noticed this when I worked for Hyundai Kia, is if you put it up on the lift, the rear suspension looks like it bolts to the gas tank. In other words, the rear subframe is welded to the gas tank.

And when you look at it from the back, it looks like the rear, lower control arms and the stabilizer bar bracket, bolt to the gas tank. And then if you look for the stable, the rear suspension subframe mounting, two of them are in the back where the control arms are. And the other two at the front of the gas tank, two feet further ahead.

So the whole gas tank and sub frame is one structure. Now, I couldn't tell if that was brilliant, or really not brilliant. Because it's reinforced. But oh man, it seems like, you know, that there's not enough incentive for me to bring a Rondo in to do it, just for that. But it's pretty weird.

GREG MIGLIORE: That is a very interesting thing to hear over a decade after I drove that Rondo. What--

DAN EDMUNDS: It probably isn't as unsafe as it seems, but still.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's not really a comment you ever want to hear about any car. It's not really as unsafe as it seems, but. It's probably fine, it's OK. You know.

[CHUCKLING]

DAN EDMUNDS: Yeah, so that's the weirdest thing I think I've seen outright. But it never made it into a suspension deep dive, or walk around, whatever I called them at the time.

GREG MIGLIORE: Well, tell us a bit about the Wrangler deep dive, too. Everybody who, you know, who reads Autoblog generally loves the Wrangler. So how do we kind of wrap up with that what? What did you find when you looked under the iconic Wrangler, if you will?

DAN EDMUNDS: Well, it's interesting, you know? I have a JK Wrangler. And of course, this was the JL, and the new JL. And I love-- I love the Wrangler. I love what it can do. You know, out here in the Mountain West, we have a lot of places to really put it through its paces.

You know, I always love things like the disconnecting stabilizer bar, and you know, I have-- in the past I had a ramp travel test, where I'll drive a car up and see how much it articulates. And I actually might start adding that in. Because I have the ramp.

I just haven't figured out how I use it my own backyard, because I don't have that much room. But I'm going to figure it out. But the thing I thought was the most interesting was you know, for years, your front wheel drive, your four-wheel drive cars would have manual locking hubs.

And you would unlock them when you were on the road so all the front axle components didn't get driven by the tires. Right? And spin all the time, and use fuel, and all of that. And you know, when I worked for Toyota, they had something called the automatic disconnecting differential.

So they didn't have manual locking hubs, or even auto locking hubs. They were fixed. But when you put it in two wheel drive, it would disconnect one axle from the differential, which had the effect of making the front drive shaft, not turn at all and the ring and pinion not turn at all.

So you'd get the same benefit without using it with the hubs. Well, you know, I saw that on the JL and I thought huh, OK. And then I realized, because I had changed the axles in my JK myself, that I don't remember seeing that on the JK.

And so it turns out, and I should have known this, and I feel real embarrassed that didn't know it, was a JK doesn't have any kind of axle disconnect in two-wheel drive mode. So everything's spinning up there. And I thought we stopped doing that 20 years ago.

But the JL has the axle disconnect that like the Toyota has had since the '90s but the JK did. And so that was a little bit of a thing I learned about the JK while doing the JL.

GREG MIGLIORE: That is, I mean just the trivia here, Wranglers, the Rondos. We could, you know, we're going to do some polls and quizzes on site, I think I know the man to call when I need some fodder for those quizzes. But my Dan, it's been great catching up with you.

The deep dives are really interesting. Can't wait to see more of them. Hope you stay healthy out there in California. And thanks for coming on the "Autoblog" podcast.

DAN EDMUNDS: Yeah, thanks for having me.

GREG MIGLIORE: Thanks, Dan. Good catching up with you. I can't wait to read more of these suspension deep dives. And some of the other test drives you've been doing. But now it's time to spend some money.

Pretty interesting question. It's always fun when somebody wants to ask about a sport truck, if you will. We don't get too many questions like this. Basically, looking for a weekend toy. Those cars are faster, but prefers a truck. Nothing older than '03, two-wheel drive, but four wheelers, four-wheel drive is OK.

Would go with a single cab if that's what he could find. Special editions animated limited numbered editions are also a bonus. Payload, fuel economy, all that stuff, not important. But power and looks are. Budget about $25,000. Joel, we'll kick it over every you.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I know exactly what he needs. He needs a Ram SRT-10.

JAMES RISWICK: Yep, done.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's what you're-- [INTERPOSING VOICES]

Both of you guys have that.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: It's in the exact price bracket that he's looking at. It's the right years. It came out as a regular cab if he really wanted to, there was even a quad cab version. You can get it either automatic or six speed manual, whichever you prefer.

It looks really cool. It's 500 horsepower V-10. Yeah, I mean that's the truck. He should just go buy a Ram SRT-10. I can throw in a couple other suggestions, but they wouldn't be as fun.

GREG MIGLIORE: Please do, I'm just curious.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Another thing that came to mind was the Tacoma X-Runner. That actually-- it looks pretty cool. Everything I've read about it says that it actually handles pretty well, came with six-speed manual and a limited slip differential. The problem is that it also just had the stock Tacoma V6, which it's all right.

It's like in that 250 horsepower ballpark. But it's not going to be-- it's not going to move like an SRT-10 would. But not a bad choice. I guess, if you were looking for better fuel economy? Maybe? I mean, you'd like have double-digit fuel economy as opposed to single-digit with the Ram.

GREG MIGLIORE: Well, he does say $25,000. You can get a Raptor for $25,000. It has more miles on it than the Ram SRT-10 does, and has fewer V10 engines in it. But nevertheless, you can't get a Raptor for that, like rev for around $100,000.

That's possible. I think those are your kind of different things. I might pick the Raptor. All things being equal, because it's newer. And I think that F-150 is a stronger vehicle than that generation of Ram in general.

But you can also, you know, jump the gorge if you have to. Because it's a Raptor, and totally nuts off road. But I think those are definitely your two choices. You might also be able to get a stronger Ram, in terms of its own like the used car quality might be better for the Ram, because it is older and cheaper.

If that makes any sense, as opposed to the Raptor, which would probably be looking at a harder used one at this point. But that sure seems like the strong-- because I mean, come on. I'd rather have a Raptor or an SRT-10 than Tacoma X-Runner whatever.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: And like the one other like under the radar suggestion I had is that for a brief period of time, you could buy the previous generation Chevy Colorado with a V8 engine. And that was around the 300 horsepower mark. You could get it in two-wheel drive or four-wheel drive. I think it was automatic only.

Which is-- so it's an interesting option. But again, like Ram SRT-10 is absolutely my choice. And I guess Raptor, if you want to go off road. But if you're looking more, which I think this is a sport truck, and prefers to wheel drive, I'm thinking he's thinking someone for the road. The SRT-10, that's-- that's where it's at.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I mean pretty simple. Ram, V-10 case closed. And that's all the time we had this week for the "Autoblog" podcast. Thanks to my co-host, Blue the dog, my son Andy. Also West Coast Editor James Riswick and news editor Joel Stocksdale. We had a very full show, not to mention a special guest appearance by Dan Edmunds. So this wasn't so much co-host. This was more of an ensemble cast this week. Next week, we're going to have to start voting people off the island. So thanks for listening. Be safe out there. We'll see you next time.

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