In this week's Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor Alex Kierstein and Senior Editor, Green, John Beltz Snyder. They start the conversation with the cars they've been driving, including the Subaru Forester, Lincoln Navigator, Mercedes-AMG C 43 and Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid. Then they talk about the biggest news of the week: the reveal of the all-electric Porsche Taycan. After that, they sweep up other news, like the Lamborghini Sián, new Nissan Juke and the Aston Martin Vanquish 25 by Ian Callum. Next, Autoblog's Erik Meier, who both produces this very podcast and also hosts our Twitch livestream, joins the chat with his impressions of the latest racing game, "WRC 8." Finally, our editors try to provide some helpful guidance in the "Spend My Money" segment.
Transcript[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MOTOR NOISES]
GREG MIGLIORE: Hello, and welcome to another episode podcast. I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me today are our two senior editors. On the phones from the West Coast Alex Kierstein. How are you doing?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Hi!
GREG MIGLIORE: 'sup?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: You know, chillin', podcastin'.
GREG MIGLIORE: You know, podcastin'. And you're on the Left Coast. Speaking of green things, senior editor John Snyder, what's going on?
JOHN SNYDER: Not a whole lot. Just podcastin' on a Friday.
GREG MIGLIORE: I like podcasting on Fridays.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. I always feel like-- right now, it's like almost starting to feel like fall. It's kind of rainy outside here. It's a groovy vibe.
GREG MIGLIORE: I completely agree with you. There was actually an article in the "Free Press," "Detroit Free Press" yesterday about how it's kind of like fall. Like, come on, is it slow news day here?
JOHN SNYDER: [LAUGHING]
GREG MIGLIORE: It was like, temperatures will be in the 70s. It's gonna be cool at night, but a little warmer during the day. So I mean, hey, whatever. But yeah, a good time of year. And I think that brings us to our first vehicle, the Subaru Forester, which, when I think of fall, I actually think of Subaru Foresters and Outbacks.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: And golden retrievers, and Seattle, and Pearl Jam, and Nirvana. These are the things I think about. We're gonna get to that first, but just a quick rundown of the show. I drove the Navigator Platinum earlier in the week. Alex drove-- what did you drive, Alex? I see a couple of things here on on the run sheet. Which ones did you drive?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah, I mean, we can decide what we wanna talk about. I drove a C43 coupe, and I drove a Crosstrek hybrid. So if one of those jumps out to you, and you guys want to debate on it or talk about it, dealer's choice.
GREG MIGLIORE: Let's do Crosstrek Hybrid. But then, since we said it, we might as well talk about it. Let's talk a little bit about the AMG C43. I drove-- I've driven several C classes lately, so I think that's just a really interesting car to me. So we'll talk about that.
We're gonna run through some news hits, most of them from Frankfurt. Both you guys were involved in the Taycan reveal. It's a green car. I know, Alex, you did a lot of editing on that. We've got an electric Lamborghini. Kinda cool.
JOHN SNYDER: Hybrid.
GREG MIGLIORE: Hybrid Lamborghini, you're right. That's a good point. It does still have the V8.
JOHN SNYDER: V12, I think.
GREG MIGLIORE: V12, yeah. That's a Lambo hybrid right there. We'll make it-- we'll electrify it, but yeah, we'll still give it like 700-plus horsepower. There is a new Nissan Juke, which is a little surprising, I think, actually.
And then just we'll wrap up news with the latest Aston Martin Vanquish designed by Ian Callum. I'm a little surprised that he immediately started doing designs for Aston Martin. So hey, that's cool. Good for him.
We're gonna talk about our stream. You, hopefully, watch our stream on Twitch that we do on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We're gonna bring the producer of the podcast, Eric Meyer, who, when he's not producing the podcast, he also streams video games. We're going to talk about WRC8, which is one of the most gorgeous video games, I think, I've ever seen.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, it's pretty cool.
GREG MIGLIORE: Pretty stunning. Hey, lastly, where to spend your money. It's a long one. By the time we get to this, I probably won't have any oxygen left, so we'll just try to skim through that, but get you some good answers.
The Forester. John, you spent some time in it. I literally drove it to the office an hour ago. Nothing like a quick work-from-home Friday before it rains.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Let the dog get a little bit more. She didn't get to ride in it, although she's a golden retriever.
JOHN SNYDER: I mean, that would be a perfect photo opportunity.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, she could have done the podcast.
JOHN SNYDER: [LAUGHS]
GREG MIGLIORE: Anyway--
JOHN SNYDER: I'm lovin' it, man. I'm loving this Forester. I drove it up North last weekend back, and put a bunch of stuff in it, put the car seat in it. I really like it. It's comfortable. It's a lot quieter than it used to be. Really good tech.
Ours has the driver focus, which minds if you're paying attention the road, but it also recognizes your face, if you program that in, and it will set all your settings for you as soon as you get in the car, which is pretty cool.
GREG MIGLIORE: Nice.
JOHN SNYDER: Not having to adjust the seats and everything every time. And yeah, I put a lot of highway miles on it, got just about 30 miles per gallon in it.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's about what I got, too-- 29 point something.
JOHN SNYDER: The one thing-- I was on the first drive for this, and I didn't really mind that it didn't have a turbo. It is a little sluggish, maybe, sometimes, but I was like, I could totally live without turbo.
When I'm on a two-lane highway coming home on Labor Day, when I have to actually pass people, it kind of sucks, man. I was-- you have to leave yourself a lot of room to get around people. It just sort of runs out of steam when you're trying to pass someone at 60 miles an hour, 65 miles an hour.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think the turbo would be a nice-- yeah, I like the idea of the turbo. I think this is a little bit of a wheezy engine. It's fine. It's fine for around-town driving. But last night, I spent like two hours in this car, not going very far.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: But traffic was just so bad. And I was coming back. The sun was kind of setting. And I was merging onto I-75. Basically put it to the floor to kind of just-- like just midstream, hit traffic. There was not a lot of caution in my brain at that point. I was like, let's go. And yeah, I'm with you. It didn't quite do what I would have liked. I mean, is it fine? Sure.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, it's adequate, but--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I mean, that's the best way to put it-- adequate.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, you definitely have to plan ahead for those moves. There's no, you know, quick decisions when you need to change lanes or get around someone.
GREG MIGLIORE: I didn't set the-- I guess I will call it the spyware. What is it technically called?
JOHN SNYDER: [LAUGHS] It's driver focus with facial recognition. The driver focus, I don't think you have to program your face for it to-- you know, it will monitor whether you're paying attention the road. If you look off to the side for three seconds-- I was actually playing with it. I was turning my head a little bit to the side but still looking forward, and that could trick it into thinking I was looking elsewhere. But it'll give you a little beep, a little reminder.
But yeah, it recognizes your face. You can plug in your own nickname and, yeah, just have all your different various vehicle settings there for you as soon as you get in the car, which is kind of cool. And it's great for us, since this car is going between a bunch of different people.
Lots of our long-termers, every time you get in, you can't set the memory to something, because someone will set something else over it. So you're always adjusting mirrors, adjusting your seat. And this seat, you don't you don't have to do that with that. It will just see you and tailor itself to you.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Cool.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I have not done it yet. One thing I like about the Forester and Subarus in general is they're pretty intuitive.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: The seats adjust. You can see out of them, see out of the car pretty well. Infotainment is pretty decent. It's not my favorite, not my least favorite, but it's fine. You know, there's a lot of knobs and buttons. So I think it's easier. And then, especially when you get into Acuras and, you know, just different cars that are a little more dense, to try to get your bearings.
But Alex, you didn't test one through a work setting, but I think you drove your sister's car. Is that right?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah, my sister has a new one.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: But it's pretty low spec, and I really only bopped around LA in it. Didn't get to do a full evaluation. But she had the previous model before that. She leased one and so I kind of got a back-to-back experience having driven both her Foresters recently, and yeah, it is.
You know, just like John said in his first drive, it doesn't seem like it would be as big of a difference, just looking at the exterior sheet metal, if it's not in the sport trim. Just the regular one, it looks pretty much like the old one, but man, it is so vastly improved inside. It drives so much better.
But yeah, I'm not a big fan of the naturally aspirated engine. To be honest with you, I'm a Subaru owner. I love Subarus. I don't really like the FA-series engines in any application. I mean, the one in the WRX, the turbo one, is OK, but I don't think they're as pleasant to use or as well-tuned as the EJ engines were.
Like the BRZ is a perfect example of that-- lilke naturally aspirated, FA20, tuned for being relatively sporty, but the stock tune is garbage. There's a big torque dip in the middle of the power band, and it just doesn't drive very well. And I've driven tuned FA20s, and it's like night and day.
So yeah, that's a long way of saying, I agree. I don't think the engine's very good. But I also don't think any modern FA series super engine is this all that great. It's just not the most inspiring motor. But the rest of the car is fantastic.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah the new platform is really solid. It just-- worlds different in terms of refinement and quietness. The old Forester was really loud going down the highway, and a lot of old Subarus were. But now, the things coming out on this new platform are a lot quieter and well-mannered on the road, too.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah I think it's-- we're going to have this one for a year, so we'll have a lot of time to really talk about it, do some different things with it. Good car for fall.
Yeah, I like it. I think definitely, seeing it in person and getting a good sense of just its on-road demeanor, how it looks. I think seeing it in person, you do pick up more the differences than, perhaps, in the photos you see. But yeah, nice car.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: So moving along, I spent some time this week in the Navigator Platinum, which is a very large Lincoln. It is certainly a nice, nice vehicle. I enjoyed it.
Yeah, I think the real spotlight feature here is just the interior. I mean, I think Lincoln is really getting the cabins right. I think the materials look pretty good. This one was a light one inside, but--
JOHN SNYDER: I like that.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think it was good. I was a little worried about spilling stuff. Like my kid's car seat has a lot of cheddar Goldfish crackers and things like that. But very nice interior.
I mean, and it's huge. It is-- I mean, yeah. I mean, you really-- if you want something in the segment, you get a lot of capability. You get a lot of interior volume. You can put a ton of things in this thing. And I think Ford's done a nice job of keeping this vehicle relevant for what it is.
It's still cool. I mean, when you look at the Lincoln lineup, the Navigator is something that is a crossover vehicle, in that sports stars, celebrities, musicians, people drive this and think it's cool. It's still a status symbol in a way no other Lincoln is and in a way, arguably, no other Fords really are, too, outside of maybe the GT or the Shelby Mustangs. It really has that sort of high-level brand cachet that you don't see, generally, with a lot of domestic cars.
So I think it's cool. It's a beast to handle, that's for sure. But I like it.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, I drove the Black Label version a while back, and it was just-- it's such a nice place to spend time. Really good blend of modernity and sort of a classic, almost retro vibe. Really nice materials. Yeah, the design, the interior design is excellent.
But yeah, it's big. It's too big for me for my taste. I think I'd be more comfortable in an Aviator. I'm really looking forward to driving that. But I do agree that the Lincoln-- you know, when I see it in the parking lot or on the street, it's just so nice looking, despite not having a lot of detail in the exterior design.
It's just kind of a soft box. But for some reason, it just looks good. Maybe the proportions, the large swaths of flat sheet metal with cool exterior colors? It just looks really nice to me.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think Lincoln has done a good job of sort of creating an aura around some of its vehicles, especially the Navigator. I think, you know, they tried it with the Continental, and it just-- they never quite got that right, I don't think. I think the car was pretty good. I think the design was good. But you know, it just didn't-- you know, it didn't quite match what it needed to be from an image standpoint. But I think they have it right with the Navigator.
And you know, again, this one had everything. I think I called this Platinum. It was a Black Label. I think Platinum may be Cadillac, actually. I don't know. I need some more coffee or something. But yeah, this was a Black Label. Very nice vehicle, though. Again, you know, it had everything.
And Black Label, I think, is a brand of Johnnie Walker scotch.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yep
GREG MIGLIORE: Right?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah, it is.
GREG MIGLIORE: So I think it's reasonable for me to mix up the different labels and trims of things here.
JOHN SNYDER: There was one little detail in the Navigator that I thought was really neat. In the seat belt buckles, where you actually buckle it into, Yeah, there's a little light on there so you can find the buckle at night.
GREG MIGLIORE: No, that's nifty. OK.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, it's really-- it seems way too far, you know? [LAUGHS] You don't really need that. But it was just a neat example of the attention to detail inside this car.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, no, very nice. So moving along, let's quickly touch on-- why don't we lead off with the AMG C43 and then you get more into the Crosstrek hybrid, Alex.
JOHN SNYDER: Sure.
GREG MIGLIORE: But since we're talking luxury cars, and we've got a lot to say about the C class lately, what did you think of this one?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah, so it was a C43 coupe. So it had a comically small backseat. No one should be surprised. But I'm not huge. I'm 5' 10", about 160 pounds, and I couldn't fit in the back at all, like, for any period of time.
And the other thing is, I went on one of the 43 cars' launches, and I was I was just so unimpressed with the engine when that launched. This was when they switched from the Sport, to then they were doing Mercedes AM-- the 43 range.
And it was just a confusing time period. And they felt to me, at the time, as inferior AMGs. Did you guys feel that way, when you started driving the 43 engine cars, that they were not as special as the 63s, or not sporty enough to be AMGs? Because that was the impression I had at the beginning.
JOHN SNYDER: That's a debate we've been having here in the office a lot lately. As more and more cars get the AMG moniker, some of them just-- yet, it depends on who you ask, but some of them feel like they don't they shouldn't make the cut. And I think arguably, yeah, a lot of the 43s shouldn't. But I don't know.
GREG MIGLIORE: But if you have a C--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
JOHN SNYDER: Go ahead.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Go ahead, Greg.
GREG MIGLIORE: You know what I think, is it does come down a little bit to what's under the hood. And I like the twin turbo V6. I think it's appropriate for the C43. I think it fits. But there's something about that engine. Good as it is, it doesn't quite give me that AMG, really rip-your-head-off kind of feel.
They do all the right things. They give enough chrome. They put the carbon fiber on there. You tick a bunch of options, and it can certainly look the part. I would say I'm on the fence of that it's like just barely an AMG.
And I don't know if that's what you want to do, sort of backing into AMG status. think you want it to be like the AMG cars of our youth. I think we're all of almost the exact same vintage here. Those things would rip your head off. And there was an aura, a mystique about them. I don't think there's a mystique about the 43 line.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: So I mean, that's where I land on it. Now, I mean, if you actually drive it, is it lovely to drive? Of course it is. And does it do a lot of things that I would like to do it with? And if you look at the specs, are they as good a-- I mean, they're better than some of the real AMGs, if you will, from 10 years ago.
I mean, that V6 engine is very capable. So I mean, I guess that's my take, is it's like just barely, if you will. I mean, it comes in at, I think I want to say, 385, which is-- that's a lot of horsepower. But so yeah, I'm kind of on the fence there, Alex.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: The thing that I miss about AMGs is that they used to be really special. And I think part of the reason they were special is there wasn't an AMG line, or were three different levels of AMG. There was usually one AMG version. I grew up in the late-- in the '90s and early 2000s, the era of the 55s and the early 63, where they were V8. And there was one flavor.
There was the C43 that had, I believe, a supercharger. No, what did the C40-- I think it had a V8. The one that Reese has, do you remember what engine that has?
JOHN SNYDER: Ooh.
GREG MIGLIORE: I don't.
JOHN SNYDER: That's a good question. Reese would know. But-- Reese, would know, but he's--
GREG MIGLIORE: Not right here right now.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: The 55s, the E55, a kid in my high school had one. I thought that was cool. I think they're hideous now, but they're the four round headlight E55 with the V8, best-sounding V8. It sounds better than the 63, which I like better. And then there were the early 63 cars. But the 43 just seems-- it seems like a budget AMG. And that's an oxymoron.
And sure, it does everything it should. It's got plenty of power, all-wheel drive. It looks pretty good. It was comfortable. My wife loved it. I mean, but it's checking too many boxes. I want something a little more focused, and maybe that's just nostalgia from when cars could do one thing well and everything else was a compromise.
But I miss that focus. I miss, this was the thing the car did. Instead of, well, if you want, you can just cruise around with it in quiet motor, or you can push four buttons, and suddenly it's a screaming monster. It's just, I don't know. None of those things is satisfying if it can do all of them, to me.
That was a mini rant, but does that make me like an old guy yelling at the clouds? Probably. But I miss single-purpose things with focus, and they were optimized for that one thing.
JOHN SNYDER: Well, you're in a chorus of old guys yelling at clouds here.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, I think it's going to become a generational thing, too. Eventually-- and we're not that old. But I mean, eventually-- we're not at the stage where we're talking about us dying off, I hope. But it's like enough time passes, and younger folks start to just think, well, the idea of how we're framing AMGs really starts to fade to the background. And they're like, well, the C43 is an AMG. So sure, it is.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool. How about we move along to the Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid? Interesting vehicle. We talk a lot of Subarus here, but this is a compelling one. Alex, what did you do with it?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: I ran all over town, mostly in EV mode. And I was trying to drain the battery. But I live in kind of a dense suburb, so if you're not getting on the freeway, it's actually pretty hard to go 17 miles. I had to run a lot of errands to drain the battery.
But yeah, so my take is, it feels like a first try. And I don't say that's a totally bad thing. But Subaru doesn't have a whole ton of experience with electrified platforms, and at least-- yeah, I mean, I think this is their first US market hybrid. Is that correct, John? I can't recall a previous--
JOHN SNYDER: Plug-in hybrid, yeah.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah, that's right. And it's called "hybrid," but it's a plug-in hybrid. Which is why it's a little confusing.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yes. There was the old Crosstrek Hybrid that was just a regular hybrid.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: That's correct. And that one had sort of disappointing fuel economy. It seemed like it wasn't really worth it. So this one, in my opinion, on paper is really good. And where it fell apart a little bit for me is the actual real-world experience of it. It felt a little unpolished.
The biggest gripe is that there's no cargo area at all. The cargo area, like, would fit maybe two briefcases. It's minuscule. And it just completely, in my opinion, neuters the utility of the vehicle. You still have four seats or five seats, and you know, it gets good fuel economy. The EV range is fine. But you know, I popped up underneath it, and in my opinion, the reason the cargo area is so compromised isn't because the battery pack is huge. It's because they put a giant transverse muffler up under there.
[LAUGHING]
And I don't know why that is or why they weren't willing to alter the rear shell. But I'll send you guys a picture later. Maybe we can put it in the post or something. But I would have spent the engineering money to lower the rear cargo area to put the battery pack in to give the consumer more of that rear area.
It's a reason we didn't buy one when we were-- we walked into Subaru dealership expecting-- when we were out shopping for a car for my wife, we were expecting to walk out with a plug-in hybrid Crosstrek, and we ended up with a Leaf, because a Leaf has a million times more usable cargo space. Well, obviously, not a million, but a serious real-world difference in usability. So what do you think, John? I know you spent time with the car.
JOHN SNYDER: The rear cargo area didn't really bother me that much. It's the shape of that little step up where the battery is, is kind of awkward. But I was able to manage quite well fitting a lot of stuff back there. I could totally live with it.
But you're right. It seems like they could have and should have done something to fix that. It just seems like an oversight. But other than that, I really, really like that car. I could see myself owning one, for sure. Yeah, 17 miles? It doesn't sound like a lot on paper, but gosh, I mean, that's a lot of driving. The average commute for an America-- and even if you do dip into your gas a little bit every time you travel, I mean, you're still saving a ton.
And yeah, drove it. It feels like a proper Subaru. It's good in soft roads, on rocky roads, you know in the snow and wet. It's a real-- if you're afraid that it's not going to feel like a Subaru, that's not what you need to be worried about. It definitely, definitely has that identity.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think it's one of-- go ahead, John.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah, go ahead.
JOHN SNYDER: I would say, I think it's that identity that really comes through in the DNA here. [KNOCKING SOUND] I think that's what makes this, I think, such a compelling option. It's something I would be totally shortlisting. Before this podcast, I wasn't totally aware of some of these compromises Alex points out. But it's still something I would look at. I mean, it's interesting. It sort of does a lot of things I would like it to do.
Yeah, I mean, I think, I know you had a school of thought a while ago that you thought, what if Subaru went all plug-in? Just as, like, a thought exercise. Obviously, they won't. They probably shouldn't. But it's like, I do think more and more of a green sheen, if you will, is the right move for them.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Absolutely. I mean, yeah, they're-- you think of the typical, stereotypical Subaru owner, and you think of crunchy granola hippies. But you know, it's people who like to spend time outdoors. And you know, these people are more-- they're probably thinking about the environment more than someone driving, you know, some other brand of all-wheel drive crossover.
And so I think a lot of Subaru owners actually do care. I, for one, was a Subaru owner, and I would have loved to have gotten-- I don't have a car of my own right now that I daily drive. But you know, I would have wanted my next car to be something with a plug, and I definitely would have, you know, put the Crosstrek Hybrid at the top my list because it's available.
If that weren't available, I'd be looking at other brands first thing. I'd be looking at, probably, a Nissan Leaf. I really like that car. Or something like the Chrysler Pacifica, or you know--
GREG MIGLIORE: I wish the Model 3 was more practical. Because I keep seeing them around town, and I really think they look awesome.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: But I don't know. I mean, the value, compared to the Leaf or the Crosstrek Hybrid-- I know, a little bit of apples to oranges here. But I mean, I don't it's unreasonable to at least look at these if you are making a spreadsheet of choices. But man, the price on that one gets up compared to a [INAUDIBLE] hybrid.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: You know, I'll say this. I think Subaru-- I know they just introduced an Outback. But when they do an Outback again, I could see them further differentiating it from the Legacy, putting it on even more of a unique platform. And if they sold off a full EV Outback, I think people would buy it.
I don't think it'd be a huge part of the mix, but you know, if they-- I mean, it seems like it's already slightly more of a premium product. It's already sort of targeting the lifestyle brand people that are gonna be interested in plug-in vehicles, in sort of green issues, in that sort of consciousness. I think that'd be amazing.
And also, it would get rid of, in my mind, the biggest Achilles' heel of the actual Subaru driving the sprints right now, which is the CVT that's in a lot of their products.
GREG MIGLIORE: Right.
[LAUGHING]
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Because if it's an EV, you don't have that. And you know, the Crosstrek Hybrid, without a CVT, drove great, especially in electric mode. I was like, man, you know, if the Impreza just had this, if it was a series hybrid or something like that instead of-- yeah, it'd be so much more interesting to me than just the efficient, it's got good space utilization, but man, that CVT with the natural aspirated engine is a real dog. So I would love an EV super.
GREG MIGLIORE: Like an EV Outback, I would buy that tomorrow. That would be awesome.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that would be perfect as far as fitting my current needs. Yeah, I think-- correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe their global architectures are compatible with the electric architecture. I don't know if they've totally confirmed that, but I believe it's either they're compatible or they could be compatible-- you know, looking at all of the PR speak.
So it seems to be that like Subaru has sort of telegraphed, maybe not what they're going to do like tomorrow, but soon. So I think this could be in their future. And I mean, I think it would be the right move for them.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, as a growing brand, growing as fast as they are, it's something that is feasible now that probably wasn't five years ago. It wouldn't have been in the plans. But they're growing so fast and gaining such a following that yeah, it is something that they could absorb at some point soon.
GREG MIGLIORE: So before I had the-- before I drove in the Forester, I did not have granola. I thought about granola, which I have. But I actually had a fried egg, which I fried lightly in olive oil-- so it wasn't crazy fried-- on a piece of white French country toast, and with an avocado in there.
JOHN SNYDER: Great.
GREG MIGLIORE: So I don't know how that fits in the Subaru, like, mantra, but I mean, hey, I've been up since 5:30 in the morning. I needed some protein and some carbs, so hey.
Speaking of green cars, though, the Taycan revealed this week. Huge deal. Got a lot of play on our site. You know, we have some pictures, obviously, of the car, but also some up-close shots of the interior. We had a good comparison with Tesla on there, written a couple days ago. So definitely check out all this coverage. It's really cool. It's really immersive. Alex, I know you did a little work on the editing. I want to bring you both in here. But kind of give us the nuts and bolts first of all there, Alex.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Sure so the first thing which is setting the internet afire, at least among our peers, you know, the people-- I follow a lot of other auto writers on Twitter. And man, everyone is pretty upset that they're calling it the Taycan Turbo and Turbo S. Because obviously, you know, to be to be pedantic here for a second, you can't have a turbocharger unless you've got an internal combustion engine.
So it's-- you know, it's one of those things where we're mad at companies for abusing words. And these are the same companies that have been perverting the word "coupe" for, you know, five or six years now. So I don't know why anyone's surprised. Words don't mean anything anymore. Get over it. We're in the post-word-definition world, and you know, we should all just deal with it.
JOHN SNYDER: And "turbo" hasn't meant turbo machinery for a very long time. I mean, yes, in cars, like a turbocharger, yes. It's turbo mechanics. But I mean, we use turbo for everything.
GREG MIGLIORE: TurboTax.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, TurboTax. Greg Rasa was eating Turbo Tots. And I asked him if they spun around in his mouth, and he said, no. But they're stuffed with cheese and stuff, and delicious. Yeah, I'm OK with it. I am completely OK with-- I'm not gonna get my panties in a twist over the use of the word.
GREG MIGLIORE: I love how Twitter lost its mind, though. And then, like, Elon Musk chimed in, and then people were trolling him. And it's just like-- it was a good thing not to actually be on Twitter.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: And you know, we should probably can this part of the discussion, because the important thing is that the car looks-- I mean, from a spec perspective, and from a [? sheet metal ?] perspective, it's really, really compelling.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: So if I can dive in for a second, it's a two-motor EV. Both the S, the Turbo and the Turbo S make 616 horsepower. They have an overboost function, which I don't feel like we really got a good sense of what that /. I couldn't figure out what the duration of it was.
But for some period of time, the Turbo can make up to 670 horsepower, while the S can send 750 horsepower to the wheels. I don't know if that's a hardware limitation or what, but those are the numbers. 0 to 60 in 3 seconds for the Turbo, 2.6 for the Turbo S. It will [INAUDIBLE] a quarter in up to 10.8, or as low as 10.8 seconds. That's pretty crazy.
There's a lot of numbers, but I think it's important. It's a 93 kilowatt-hour battery. Let's see. We don't have an EPA range figure yet, but you know you can kind of do the math on it-- probably right around 200, 220, something like that. And it should handle pretty much like a Porsche.
I mean, people are saying that the Model S's numbers are better than this. And that's obviously a matter of debate, and that's something we can talk about. But my take is that this is a car designed to do something different than the Model S. It is designed to be a sports car experience. And that means that its straight-line acceleration numbers might not be as good. It means its lateral numbers might be better.
But the important metric is-- and we should say this over and over again-- the numbers don't matter. It's how the car drives. Do you enjoy it? I mean, that is-- it's why the Miata is our perennial favorite. The numbers look like crap on paper, but it's so much fun to drive. And the question is going to be, is it worth the premium?
Because these are expensive. I think they start at $153,000. So it's expensive. Not super expensive for a Porsche, considering where it sits in the lineup, sort of an alternative to the Panamera. A little bit smaller, but they basically said this was an expensive platform to develop, and it's priced as a premium platform. We think there will be lower cost, lower spec versions in the future. But yeah, I mean, it's like the four-seat 911 of EVs, is the way to think about it.
JOHN SNYDER: Which I love. I love that idea. Porsches are some of my favorite cars to drive. The 911 is one of my favorite cars to drive, period, of all time.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, totally. And agreed.
JOHN SNYDER: But I also love electric cars. And if, you know, you can combine everything I love about electric cars with everything I love about Porsche, from styling, to driving dynamics, to technology and interior, it's going to be great. This this has the potential to become my all-time favorite car. We'll see if I get a chance behind the wheel.
But gosh, you know, I've talked to some folks at Porsche over the past couple years, and they've just assured me that this is going to be typically Porsche. They say that, those two words, over, and over, and over. And I believe them, from what I'm seeing here.
And you know, I can't wait to drive this. I'd much rather live with this, and its interior, and all the things that the Porsche brand brings than with the Model S, frankly. I love the Model S, but this is awesome.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think, too, this is sort of like, you know, the gathering storm that we've been waiting for. Tesla's kind of had this space largely to itself for quite a few years now. Have other people done electric vehicles in different shapes and forms? Of course. But there's seldom has been one that's, like, as cool as a Tesla? Well, what's as cool as a Tesla? Probably a Porsche.
JOHN SNYDER: Mm-hmm.
GREG MIGLIORE: And you know, enter a vehicle like this-- granted, the price is very heady. But it's-- I think this is something that's going to, like, literally change some opinions. It's gonna change, you know, some of the way people think about Porsche. I think, you know, it's awesome, how it looks, and the specs. Obviously, we can't wait to drive it and see how it measures up.
But you know, as you look at things like what Jaguar is doing, some of, you know, the other-- like even the Chevy Bolt, you know, all these things are now either on the market, or they're getting here, or vehicles like the I-PACE. And suddenly, I think what's going to happen is you're going to see consumers-- you know, maybe they won't be able to get the Model S or the Model 3, you know, as easily as they'd like. Maybe you live in a state where Tesla is fighting, you know, over franchise laws and it's harder to get one.
You start, you look around, and you're like, wait, I could get something else. Oh, and it costs this much. And oh, wait, there's still tax credits available on this. Hmm, OK. And I think that's where you're going to see Tesla's-- I think there's almost this perception that Tesla has a lead. And I would argue they don't, as far as the development. And I would also say that, you know, as the market matures, it's gonna be good for Tesla, because I think the rising tide is gonna, you know, carry all boats, if you will. But I think you're definitely gonna see, you know, the marketplace become much more splintered.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: You know, I agree with everything you're saying. I think in my mind, Tesla's biggest liability right now is that the cachet might wear off. In my mind, the biggest selling point is Tesla made EVs cool. That is no small feat.
GREG MIGLIORE: Right.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: They put EVs in the luxury space. They made them objects of desire. But if at some point they become uncool- you know, which kind of just happens organically. Suddenly, you know, we wake up one day, and Tesla's not cool anymore-- I think they're in real trouble. Because what they don't have is the ability to iterate product like, say, Porsche.
I mean, Porsche's got, you know, 70 years of chassis development experience. They've been building sports cars from day one. If they-- this is their first shot, right? Imagine what the next one's gonna look like.
GREG MIGLIORE: Right.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: They're gonna take all the lessons they learned from this, and they're gonna iterate. And they've got the ability. They've got a lot of resources. They can move quickly, and they can break things without breaking the company. You know, Tesla, if I want to be unfair-- this is a dig-- you know, they're, like, building cars in a tent next to the factory, because they don't have their production line issue sorted out. Like, and at some point, something's gonna give.
And I want to see Tesla succeed, honestly-- American company making desirable electric vehicles. But at some point, they're gonna have to figure this out. The Model S needs an update. They're gonna have to get Model 3 quality control figured out. They're gonna have to actually build and sell a model line roadster. They're gonna lose a bunch of face.
All of these new EVs from the big manufacturers are just turning the screws. And I think Elon and team need to start drilling down now on that product plan for the future. Otherwise, it's gonna be too late, and they're gonna have ancient product on sale.
Like Model S is already pretty old.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, it is.
JOHN SNYDER: I can't believe it's still desirable, honestly.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think it's sort of-- it's the Tesla crossover. And I mean, I think a lot of their buyers are just like, hey, I want a crossover. Here it is. This is the right size.
I think you do get a different kind of consumer, one who is thinking green and Tesla first and second, and then car third. And I think that's where, maybe, it's just like in some way, Tesla's image is so elevated right now that they can sort of-- like, it just-- it hangs in there. And nobody realizes that the car is, you know, several years old.
All right, so speaking hybrids, let's talk about the first Lamborghini hybrid. How do you think this is pronounced-- the "Sy-an?" "See-an?"
JOHN SNYDER: I link how it's pronounce "Sean."
GREG MIGLIORE: "Sean"?
JOHN SNYDER: [LAUGHS] Like I'm sure that's not it.
GREG MIGLIORE: Irish car?
JOHN SNYDER: Probably "See-an" or something. I don't know.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, but it looks amazing. Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of cool that Lambo is dipping its, you know, toes into this area. They're not gonna make a ton of these. It's probably gonna be a riot to drive.
Yeah, I mean, it's cool. I mean, it's basically taking the naturally aspirated V12 and, you know, giving it some hybrid tech, which keeps the V12 kind of relevant for a little while longer, anyway. Pretty cool. I think, you know, in our story, we kind of write that the Urus is most likely going to be, you know, another-- you know, the next step, if you will, in Lambo's hybridization, which I think is illogical.
But do check out the story in the pictures by Ronan Glon, one of our European correspondents. Real quick, though-- what do you guys? Think we'll start with you, John.
JOHN SNYDER: It's a baby step. [LAUGHS] But it's a baby step I'm glad to see them take. You know, it looks very Lamborghini. And it's gonna be super fast, of course-- 2.8 seconds from 0 to 62 miles per hour. Top speed, more than 220 miles per hour. So this could be impressive. I'm looking forward to when they actually start getting serious about electrification, though. This Is just, like, a toe in the water.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think what's cool about this are the head and the tail lights. Some nice design cues from the recent-- there's some concepts you might see up front with those sort of like y-shaped lights. And then, in the back, you see-- you know, you step a little farther back in history, and you see some, you know, elements there from, like, cars from the '70s. But Alex, what do you think?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: I'm glad to see Lamborghini playing with supercapacitors, in particular. Because in my mind, that strikes me as the sort of nonconformist-- like a way for Lamborghini to be playing with this technology in sort of like an exotic way. And I hope they develop that further.
And it'd be kind of cool to see a car where its primary, like, burst speed is supercapacitor-based. You know, like maybe it's charging that throughout the day, and then you have a, you know, push-to-pass kind of blast of, like-- you know, Lamborghini is all about showing off. And I think they need to make the electrification aspect part of it, the showing off aspect, in order for it to make it work.
Does it make the company that green?
JOHN SNYDER: No.
GREG MIGLIORE: No.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: I mean--
JOHN SNYDER: Not really.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: But it's a drop in the bucket. You know what? I honestly don't care. I think they can play with it a little bit. But Lamborghini is such a small part of the-- it's a rounding error of a rounding error in the overall picture of, you know, what cars are doing with the planet.
So I'm a little-- I think they should be doing it because it pulls everybody else up, you know? If they're getting into it, it makes it attractive to other people. But like, who cares what-- in my opinion, who cares what's coming out of a Lamborghini's tailpipe? There's like, you know, 1,000 of them built a year, 2,000 a year. It's not that big of a deal.
GREG MIGLIORE: I will say this. It does get the word "Lambo" and "hybrid" in a headline together. So most people aren't gonna read that they're making, like, what, 63 of these things?
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: So you know, they'll read the headline. They'll read the comments. So goes the modern media, sadly. And you know, that's all, you know, a lot of people will know. And that's cool. And the people who do buy them will pay a ton of money for 'em. So it is kind of a win-win for Lambo.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, and they're already sold out. [LAUGHS]
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, yeah, there you go. They're sold out. Cool. So let's just go to the total other end of the segment. The Nissan Juke is coming back. It's a thing. Not coming back to the US, though, if you will. We just saw a refreshed version. This is for the European market.
I don't know. I mean, I guess the bigger question is, how do we feel about the Juke in general? Do these new pictures change anything? What do we think?
JOHN SNYDER: I don't know. I liked the Juke, and I was sad to see it go. And I'm sad that the Kicks is what replaced it here. [LAUGHS] So I'm just-- this whole thing makes me a little sad. But I don't know. I liked the weirdness of the interior of the old one. This one is looking pretty bright-- lots of colors. I think I like the old style a little better. It was just kind of funkier. They didn't need to get more conventional with it. But--
GREG MIGLIORE: Alex?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: I think it's well tuned to the European market. I mean, if you kind of squint, this could be a Citroen or something, or a SEAT. I agree with John. I don't think it's as edgy as the original Juke. This feels like original TT to second-generation TT to me. It's like, maybe some models need to live for one generation and then die.
That said, it's only in Europe. It appears that it sort of matches European tastes. Would I like this better than the Kicks? I don't know. The Kicks has a unique appeal that it's incredibly cheap. So I don't think they can make this as cheaply. They put some money into the interior, so--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOHN SNYDER: You know, the Kicks is like the Versa of little crossovers. It's just there to move people around. And I think that's fine. But yeah, I like-- the Juke was one of my favorite Nissans, mostly because I just like it when things are a little different. You know, a little unconventional, a little color, a little pizzazz. I guess that's not what America Nissan buyers want anymore, so there we are.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, makes sense for the US. I mean, which would I rather drive? Probably the Juke. Just more interesting. But I mean, so it goes. Let's wrap up news here, though, with Aston Martin. And we'll link the word, "Ian Callum."
Kind of interesting-- former Jaguar designer who retired and, you know, we knew he was gonna probably be setting up his own sort of shop. He did-- sort of reworked the iconic Vanquish. Looks pretty good.
I think it's interesting to see that he's-- you know, not interesting, but it's good to see that he's still, obviously, not retiring. You know, he's still gonna be out there doing things. Aston is gonna build a limited version of these-- I wanna say 25 of these. So you know, very, you know, bespoke product. It's a very cool thing, I think.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, I--
[LAUGHING]
GREG MIGLIORE: John doesn't? This is good. We should disagree on some things.
JOHN SNYDER: I respect Ian Callum as a designer. I don't know, something about this Vanquish 25 is a little-- it seems a little off to me.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: It looks like there's a bunch of stuff tacked onto it, right?
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah. Yeah, it does.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: It's been through Callum's Pep Boys shop.
JOHN SNYDER: [LAUGHS]
GREG MIGLIORE: Because, you know, that's the image he's going for here- Callum's Pep Boys sounds like a good affiliate link strategy for us.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: He's a fourth Pep Boy.
JOHN SNYDER: But yeah, I mean, it's a little busy. It's not quite as, you know, sleek, I mean, as the old Vanquish. I don't know. It didn't need this, I don't think. I don't it needed Callum's [? touch. ?]
GREG MIGLIORE: I'll concede that, for sure. Like anytime you do get these designers-- like Fisker, I want to say he tuned a Mustang a while ago at the LA Auto Show. It's like-- or it was like a Mustang-inspired car. It's like, what are you doing? The car is pretty good as it is, you know? Like the factory designed it the right way, and you know, you're just kind of like adding things. You know, it's sort of like wearing cufflinks when cufflinks aren't required for the occasion. I don't know, Alex. What do you think?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah, you know, what we were saying earlier, I was being a little unfair. But I think, you know, my take on this is, it was a clean design, and then this has just been farkled. It's covered in farkles. And the white letter tires, and-- yeah, it just seems distasteful. And it's really weird.
So I think Callum is known for you know just clean, like, you know, organic, voluptuous designs. And this is like putting a bunch of frosting on that. I don't like it.
That being said, it's a limited edition Aston. You know, people with that kind of money, maybe their sense of style and taste is a little different than mine. I think, depending on your viewpoint, it could be a major success.
But is this what Callum's gonna do now? He's just gonna kind of make, sort of, re-imagined versions of existing Aston cars? Maybe that's what he wants to do. To me, that sort of sounds like a sad afterlife. I don't know. I hope I'm not being too negative, but like, I'm a little down on this, 'cause this doesn't seem like a cool thing for him to be doing. But that's my opinion, and it's all subjective, so--
GREG MIGLIORE: No, that's-- we're kind of all over the spectrum on this, and that's good. I think it is interesting when you-- you're a rock star, if you will. And then, you know, I don't know, you wrote "Thunder Road" in 1975. Well, what do you do next, you know, if, say, you're Bruce, you know? And I mean, I don't it's a stretch to say, you know, Ian Callum, in the design world, is in that sort of level.
So it's tricky. I mean, the Vanquish is arguably-- it is one of his designs, because Aston was part of the Ford luxury stable back then. You know, I know he kind of takes credit for it. So it's tricky, I think. I mean, what do you do next? You know, you see this with musicians, with football coaches, with all sorts of different people. You know it's like after you leave that, like, the thing that's gonna be, like, you know, on your tombstone, if you will, what's your next act, you know?
ALEX KIERSTEIN: And this is a remastered greatest hits album, you know?
GREG MIGLIORE: No, you're exactly right. That's what it is.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Because this is a greatest hits, and it's like, hey, let's go back and play 'em, you know, in an acoustic way, instead of how everybody imagines them in their head.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah.
JOHN SNYDER: Totally.
GREG MIGLIORE: You know, I'm sure he'll have more things up his sleeve that will probably be awesome, but it's an interesting talking point. Cool, so we'll leave it there. That is news. Next, we're gonna talk about what's going on in the video game stream. We're gonna bring in our producer of the podcast, Eric Meyer, to talk about WRC8.
ERIC MEYER: Hey, everybody. My name's Eric. First of all, thanks for having me on the show, guys. I've been editing and producing the podcast for a little while, but I think this is my first ever time actually being on here.
GREG MIGLIORE: Except for, you know, your intro song.
ERIC MEYER: Oh, very true. Very true, very true. But I'm here today because I've been playing a video game called "WRC8." And I wanted to talk about it a little bit, because I really, really like it. When you're listening to this, depending on when, it either will be out, or it will be out soon.
It's currently out on PC, and it will be coming out on Xbox and Playstation on September 10-- so really, really soon. We've had the opportunity to play it a little early, which is super nice of Big Ben Interactive, the developers of the game. And I put a fair amount of time into it, and I've been really loving it.
So I don't know about you, John, but for me, I've never been the biggest fan of what people would call Sim racers.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
ERIC MEYER: Historically, I like arcade-y type racers. A lot of times, they're a little easier to handle. The emphasis is more on just have fun. It doesn't have to be super realistic.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, this one seems like it's a lot more challenging.
ERIC MEYER: It absolutely is. And so it's kind of-- it's surprised me how much I really kind of love it, because I'm just not used to that level of precision in a racing game. One of the things I love about it-- and it's also something that's frustrating in a good way-- is that you cannot-- it demands focus, and it demands precision.
So it's, I guess I should say, if you're not aware of what "WRC" is. That stands for "World Rally Championship." This is a rally racing game. So you're racing all the time down super, super tight corridors, hairpin turns everywhere. You're on gravel. You're on snow. You're on asphalt. It's all over the place.
And each one of these things kind of represents a different challenge in the game. And like I was saying earlier, is when you're really-- it feels great when you're really flying, and you, like, hit a turn perfectly, and that all feels great. And then it all kind of comes crumbling down the second you make even the tiniest little mistake.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
ERIC MEYER: And you know, you run straight into a guardrail or something like that. And then you get a time penalty, and it hurts your time. But man, it's so addictive, because the first time ever that you really want to-- or the first time ever that you really, like, nail a run in a special stage in a rally, or even, really, if you just nail, like, a good turn, like one single turn, you feel awesome. Like, it really makes you feel really awesome.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, I was watching you play some, and it looks super challenging. Yeah, there's different-- there's a skill tree sort of element to it where you're sort of leveling up certain aspects of your--
ERIC MEYER: Yes, so that's another interesting thing about this game. I should put a little caveat here. Some people listening, you might be familiar with the game series called "Dirt." They make the "Dirt Rally" games and just the original "Dirt," 1, 2, 3, 4. So apparently similar types of games. I, personally, have never played the "Dirt Rally" games.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: They're also pretty challenging.
ERIC MEYER: Yeah, no, I would imagine so. And to be honest, I'm kind of excited to go try 'em, because I've been enjoying this game so much. It's like kind of opened up this whole new genre to me. It's opened my eyes to this new, exciting genre that I really enjoy.
But ass for the skill tree you mentioned, it's really cool. There's a career mode in "WRC8." and there is like a classic, like, "Final Fantasy" style skill tree that you can use to upgrade your team. And there are different sections in the tree that you can upgrade. So you can either upgrade your-- you can hire, like, a financial manager. Or even what I thought was really kind of funny and cool is you can hire onto your team a meteorologist.
JOHN SNYDER: Yes!
ERIC MEYER: Because your meteorologist will give you a higher percentage of correctly predicting the weather for the races, which allows you to make more informed decisions about the types of tires.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, it's funny watching Joel ditch the meteorologist and the get just nailed every race with the wrong tires.
ERIC MEYER: Yeah, so we've been streaming this game on the Autoblog stream on twitch.tv/autoblog. We do that every Tuesday and Thursday at 2:00 o'clock Eastern time. So we've been streaming this game this past week, you know, streaming with Joel. And he was very anti-meteorologist. I was surprised.
GREG MIGLIORE: [LAUGHS]
ERIC MEYER: I think the meteorologist is very helpful for anyone listening who is giving this game a try. But yeah, so on the career, the skill tree, it allows you to branch off. I mean, it's hard. There are so many-- it is a hardcore skill tree. It's not like, oh, here's like four or five things, and then you're maxed out. It's like, no, there are dozens.
JOHN SNYDER: So is there-- there's a career mode.
ERIC MEYER: Yes
JOHN SNYDER: Is there, like, an online mode?
ERIC MEYER: Yeah, there is. So there's a lot of, really, modes-- there's a lot of modes that I really kind of appreciate. Because there's the career mode, which is super challenging. Like it is like, if you do bad in two races, your team drops you and it's game over, buddy, sorry. Try again. Like, it's like pretty brutal.
But then, there's a season mode, which is similar to career mode, but it takes away all of the team management aspect of career mode.
JOHN SNYDER: OK.
ERIC MEYER: So it's really just focusing on the racing. So if you're listening to this, if you're interested, but you don't care about team management at all, you only care about the racing, jump into season mode. That will definitely be the mode for you.
There is, also, online multiplayer. And what was really surprising and exciting for me is there's a pretty fantastic split screen multiplayer mode, which is, unfortunately, kind of a dying breed nowadays with video games. But I think it's-- if a game can have a split screen mode, it should, in my opinion.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
ERIC MEYER: Because Couch Co-Op is a lot of fun. I mean, it's fun to, like, just sit next to your friends and go head-to-head in a rally race. What's really cool, too, about the split screen mode is-- so and again, I didn't really know anything about rally racing before playing this game.
But if you don't know, you're, way more often than not, actually racing head-to-head with, like, another car right next to you. It's more based-- it's more like time trial type things. But when you're playing split screen, you do actually-- it imposes what's called the ghost of the other player onto your side of the screen.
GREG MIGLIORE: Nice.
ERIC MEYER: So it's really easy to keep up with, like, where you are in comparison to the person that you're playing with.
JOHN SNYDER: And you've been playing on Xbox.
ERIC MEYER: Yeah, we've been playing it on Xbox. So I will say, I know I've been heaping on a lot of praise onto this, but we discovered a few things in the past week. May or may not be specific to the Xbox version. We can only speak for the Xbox version.
But so despite the fact that I've been having a ton of fun with this game, unfortunately, there's been a few times-- I've put about 10 hours into it at this point. So in those 10 hours of gameplay, there's been a few times it like-- it seems like this game was kind of built for PC. And so during some of the loading screens, unfortunately, it crashed our Xbox.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
ERIC MEYER: That's happened three times now.
JOHN SNYDER: Oh, god.
ERIC MEYER: Yes. So--
GREG MIGLIORE: That's something that could potentially be fixed with a patch or something.
ERIC MEYER: Absolutely. And that's absolutely what I'm hoping. Like I mentioned off the top, this game actually isn't even out for Xbox and PS4 yet, as of when we're having this conversation. So that is definitely something that, if it becomes a widespread issue--
JOHN SNYDER: Do you know when it comes out?
ERIC MEYER: The 10th, September 10. It's out currently for PC. It came out on the 5th, I want to say, for PC. Either way, when you're listening this, it is absolutely out. And then consoles a couple days later, on the 10th.
But yeah, so that really is my only-- that's my only gripe, is just those unfortunate shutdown issues. But as far as gameplay goes, I mean, it's really a lot of fun. There's a free mode where you can just kind of drive around, get used to the different cars, how everything feels.
One of the reasons why it's beneficial to have a meteorologist is because the developers actually included something called dynamic weather in this game, where the weather can actually change, like, during a race. For each stage in a rally in this game, depending on where it is and what stage, some of them can take up to, like, 7, 8 minutes for a single stage.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
ERIC MEYER: And like I said, it's really, like, demanding your focus. You really have to focus in on it. I'm not gonna lie to you, Jonathan, I completely forgot where I was going with that. But it's important to know that it's not the type of game that you can jump into and like, I'm gonna play this for, like, two, three minutes. Like, you won't. You definitely won't.
JOHN SNYDER: You've got to do it.
ERIC MEYER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, does it make you want to watch rally racing?
ERIC MEYER: Yes, it really does. It really does.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's one of the more entertaining motorsports to watch.
ERIC MEYER: Yeah, it's one of those things. So we will be having a review on this game next week. In the review, I talk about how prior to this-- and I mention earlier, even-- prior to this, I knew nothing, Jon Snow, about rally racing at all.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ERIC MEYER: And I'm so into this game that, like, all I kind of want to do is just learn everything I can about rally racing. The extent of my knowledge is pretty much that Travis Pastrana did it back in the day. And he's cool. I like him. So I came into it, you know, knowing that I generally like the sport. I just didn't know anything about it.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool.
ERIC MEYER: But yeah, this game has really expanded how much I-- I mean, instantly expanded how much I know about the sport, and definitely expanded my interest in the sport. So it's something I'm definitely gonna continue playing.
If you're interested at all in the game, we're gonna to be streaming it this upcoming week as well. So if you are listening to the podcast, the day it comes out, or even a few days afterwards, check us out on twitch.tv/autoblog. We'll be streaming at 2:00 o'clock.
And we actually stream every week. It's not always "WRC8." But we're always streaming racing games and driving games. We do "Rocket League." We do the "Forza" games. Really, anything that you can drive around something, we'll stream it, most likely.
[LAUGHS]
So that's a lot of fun. So we'll be streaming that next week, if you're interested. If you have the game and you want to play with us, tune into the stream play with us. We play with users all the time, or we play with viewers, rather, all the time. And it's a lot of fun. So hop on in.
If you want to see the full review, check out autoblog.com next week for the full review on the game. But general thoughts? It's really, really, really ridiculously fun. I like it a lot.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, thanks for talking to us about it, and thanks for being our resident gamer and streamer, and thank you for producing this podcast.
ERIC MEYER: Hey, I do what I can. Thanks for having me on the show. And I am going to throw it back to our fearless leader Greg. So thanks a lot, guys.
GREG MIGLIORE: Thanks, Eric. And now it's time to spend some money. So the writer today has a pretty nuanced question, but it's a pretty good one. Within the next 18 months, he is looking to step out of the three-row segment. Currently drives an '06 Toyota Sequoia SR5. It's an old SUV. His wife drives a '06 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 3.7 liter. So you know, they're definitely rocking some old SUVs here.
Now, for 10 years, he has been thinking about three cars that are totally unattainable. He did try out an '08 Mercedes E350 4-Matic for the last eight months. First German car. He says eight months, specifically, because the car was wonderful. Forget this, seven months and three weeks. Seven months and three weeks, then it became a money pit overnight. Very happy to sell the car.
So that's one of high-- basically, it's a little bit of context here, I guess, if you will. Plus, it was a little bit small. So here's what he's looking for. He says he's part of a dying breed that still likes sedans. I like sedans. Budget is about $22,000. So here are the choices-- 2010 to 2012 Jaguar XJ or XJL. An '08 to 11 Maserati Quattroporte. Or a 2010 to 2011 Porsche Panamera S or Turbo.
Basically lives in Western Michigan. Hey, how's it going? Not far from us here in the Eastern side of Michigan. Travels a lot throughout the Midwest for his job. Always worried about the weather. Lots of different, you know, ways he breaks this down. He's talking about the engine choices. But yeah, some interesting ideas here. What do you guys think? I'll start with you, John.
JOHN SNYDER: Well, that's a tough one. You know, I like the Jaguar XJ quite a bit. And I'm sort of leaning toward that. The Maserati, I mean, if you're getting out of an old car, you'd be getting into a car that feels old.
[LAUGHS]
And the Porsche, the Porsche Panamera would be awesome if you could find something within your budget. That seems tricky. But I really like the XJ. I think that's where I'm leaning. But yeah, Western Michigan, a lot of snow. It would be nice to have had the all-wheel drive in a Panamera. But yeah, I'm gonna say XJ.
GREG MIGLIORE: Pass it over to you, Alex.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: I'm just gonna be honest. I'm having trouble with this question, because he just said he had a nightmare ownership experience with a late-model Mercedes. He says his absolute max budget is 22 grand. That's kind of low to be looking at sort of late model luxury vehicles. All three of the vehicles he picked are not known for their ownership experience.
GREG MIGLIORE: [LAUGHS] Very true.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: They're known for having frequent, extremely expensive repairs. So while I mean, I would love to daily a cheap Maserati. But I can tell you right now, I can't afford to be taking it to the shop all the time, and I cannot afford parts. The cars might be cheap, but the maintenance is still luxury car maintenance.
I mean, you're ordering expensive ancillaries from Italy if you have the Maserati. You know, if it needs a rebuild, good god, it's gonna be a $15,000 or $16,000 rebuild minimum. So I would suggest very, very seriously considering what kind of budget you actually have for this vehicle. Like get a cheap Maserati, sure, but you should have 10 grand in the bank just waiting for something to go wrong. You should be prepared to have it not be there a few days a month, you know, maybe a few months a year.
I don't know. I just-- you know, and in that price range, you know, for the Maserati in particular, you're looking at the automatics, which are not known for their reliability. The Quattroporte single clutch was not a very well-regarded unit. I think he's just gonna be looking at old, tired versions of these cars, so they're gonna have a lot of needs. And I'm not seeing that there is a budget built in to maintain these things.
You know, the issue with the Mercedes, he got rid of it. You know, what happens when, you know he's got a loan on one of these, and something really goes wrong? I'm concerned for him. This is out of concern.
It's not out of a hatred for these vehicles. I love Jaguars. The first [? press ?] vehicle I was ever in it was a long wheelbase XJ. I think the Mazerati V8 is phenomenal. I would put up with a lot of BS to have a Maserati V8. I don't know, man. I'm thinking, like, older Acuras, RLs or RLXes with the super handing and all-wheel drive, I think, are going to check a lot of the boxes, other than being exotic and European.
They're going to be luxurious. They're going to be affordable. They're going to never, ever, ever break. And they're gonna be a phenomenal deal, because no one wants an RLX. Like, you could probably get two RLXes for $22,000.
GREG MIGLIORE: The RLX is great, too.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: It's so underappreciated. And it is a little more boring and a little less exotic than these vehicles. But like I don't know, man. I just don't know that you can check all those boxes at that budget. So that's my, like, tough love take. I'm sorry. I just don't think this is gonna work out for you. [LAUGHS] And I hate to be that guy. But yeah, I would feel bad if we said, you know, get one of these with that kind of budget and those constraints and it caught on fire in your garage or something like that.
GREG MIGLIORE: So he did ask for other suggestions. So I think, I mean, it's a very legit answer to say, none of the above, and look at, you know, column C, you know? I think that's entirely reasonable.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: I mean, is there anything European we would suggest? Because it sounds like he wants something European. He wants something quick and fun. RLX is not that. So Greg, I mean, is the something that comes to mind that might be attainable for 22 grand?
GREG MIGLIORE: I don't know. I think in this case, I mean, so what I would do from these three is I would probably take the Porsche, I think.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Me, too, out of the three.
GREG MIGLIORE: Just from these three. And I'm with you, Alex. I love the XJ. I mean, I love that early generation of it. We actually hear it's gonna go away. That Quattroporte, man, I don't know. Life in an LA Quattroporte? You know, budget another 22 grand for the repairs for that thing.
I mean, but here's the thing, though. I do sympathize and get what he's trying to do. Like it sounds like he's saved, you know, a little bit of money-- you know, enough that you can at least start to look at the listings of these things and know, hey, you could pay cash for it. Maybe, you know, at the low end, but you could do this.
You know, you like the idea. You like the design. You want to drive one of these cars. You're probably thinking of what this is like when the car is working. You know, and I think, Alex, you're good to raise that kind of caution flag. Like, well, these three, in particular, there's probably gonna be long periods where the car is either not working or there is an issue with it that's gonna sort of hamper your, you know, enjoyment and fair use of it, if you will.
So I think plus just looking at some of the listings, I'm seeing some pretty high mileage for these cars, and prices are still not particularly low. So that's something to consider. I think, you know, look at the Acura. That's a good move.
I don't know. Is there anything else we're missing here we could throw on here? I mean, I think by default the Porsche, that, probably, it would have, I think, the best quality of these three. I think it's a good looking car. The design hasn't changed all that much. So if you could get a '10 Panamera, I mean, you're not gonna look out of date. Nobody's gonna be like, look at that guy in that old Panamera. It's still a pretty cool-looking car.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: I don't know. Are we missing anything here?
JOHN SNYDER: Well, here's the thing. He's currently driving a 2006 Toyota Sequoia, lifted 3 and 1/2 inches.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think I left that out. That's really cool.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah, that is really cool. And it's-- he says 212,000 miles but ultra reliable. You want to sell that to us?
[LAUGHING]
GREG MIGLIORE: Now he's gonna to go with column number five here, which is keep your car, or sell it to Autoblog.
JOHN SNYDER: That's really pretty, pretty cool. But yeah, if you're done with it, you're done with it. I understand that.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOHN SNYDER: But that is pretty cool. I
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Have a suggestion. It may be hard to find, because they didn't make a lot of these. If he could find any generation of S8, Audi S8, they're big, luxurious, exotic to some degree, understated. And I think any S8 will be a collectible in the future.
So I think-- I'm not saying that it will necessarily retain value or appreciate, but I mean, none of these cars are. The reason he's looking at them is they've fallen into, like, the very bottom of the depreciation trough. I would trust an S8 to be a little more reliable a little more well-built than any of these options, except maybe the Porsche. But it could be a good alternative. I say that knowing with any of these vehicles, I would want to see-- I'd want to look at one-owner vehicle with a briefcase full of records. You know, like I think buying any of these from, like, a used car lot is a terrible idea. So if he wants to get any of these, the Panamera included, have it pre-inspected by a specialist. Make sure you're buying from a private party that has a lot of maintenance records. Make sure it's well-maintained and up-to-date on maintenance. Because you fall behind on any European car, it's gonna bite you in the butt. I mean, that's just-- the reality is these cars were designed to be maintained to perfect specification, and all throughout their life, everything needs to be maintained. If you fall behind, other systems fail. It gets real expensive. So that's my advice.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's a lot of choices here. I think it's one of those situations, too, where, I mean, it's nice to be at the point where, you know, you do have a little bit of a pot of money here, and you could think, hmm, you know, what do you do want to do with it? What kind of car would you like to try to, you know, enjoy and, you know, do with the next stage of your life?
But I mean, I think your choices here are, you know, it's kind of an interesting hand of cards, I guess, you're sort of dealing yourself. So you know, let us know how it works out.
JOHN SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: I guess I'm a little sorry we weren't more helpful.
JOHN SNYDER: This is definitely one I want I want to hear back about.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Me, too.
JOHN SNYDER: And if things change or something, it might be fun to revisit. But yeah, this is definitely a good one to follow up on.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. So just for the record, what was your recommendation, John?
JOHN SNYDER: I said that of the three, I said the Jaguar.
GREG MIGLIORE: The Jaguar. I went with the Porsche. Alex, you kind of went with none of the above.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: But if it's gotta be something on the list, by far, the Porsche. Again, taken to a specialist, with records, and all that stuff. But it's gonna be, by far, I think, the best buy, and probably the most enjoyable ownership experience of the three.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think it's also one that's gonna, probably, hold up the best, too.
JOHN SNYDER: Yes.
ALEX KIERSTEIN: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: It does-- you know what I mean.
JOHN SNYDER: Yes.
GREG MIGLIORE: Any you know, from a design standpoint, it's not gonna look dated. You know, I think that Jaguar looked good back then. It still looks good. It's a great design. But you know, that looks like a 10-year-old car, I think, at this point. And that Maserati is, you know, kind of from another time at your point.
JOHN SNYDER: Steer way clear of that one.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's-- yeah. I think we're in agreement. The Maserati, yeah, look out. So I guess we'll have to leave it there. Thanks for writing in. Please let us know what you think. If we get any more opinions, we'll let you know from around the office. But everybody else, thanks for listening. This is a bit of a long one, so maybe if you're doing some yard work this weekend, you're grilling, and then you have to walk the dog, well, now you have a couple more of your Autoblog, you know, friends with you along for the ride. Be safe out there, and we'll see you next week.
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