Weber looks to bring V4 engine to the masses
Weber Automotive, a leader in the manufacture of engine blocks and crankshafts (many of the magnesium VW Beetle engine blocks were cast by Weber), has designed a small V4 engine in an attempt to provide an alternative to inline fours in emerging markets such as China.
The V4 configuration has had its fair share of success in the realm of high-performance motorcycles, and Weber claims that its cube-like shape makes it well-suited to compact cars as well. Not only is the 70-degree bank angle said to offer a packaging advantage, but it's supposedly up to 75 lbs lighter than a typical 2.0L I4 of similar power.
Fans of the Yamaha VMax and Honda VFR may also be glad to hear that a 90-degree crank is used. This gives the engine a firing order that effectively is like two 90-degree V-twins which run 180 degrees out of phase, and thus leads to an exhaust noise that can best be described as that of a miniature V8.
The company has posted some specifications on its site, and if they are to be trusted, this engine might be rather interesting, indeed. If someone wants to toss this into a decent sport compact, we'd be more than happy to thrash it around for a while.
[Source: Automotive Design and Production]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Michael Karesh 4:37PM (7/23/2006)
This isn't good. If this engine enjoys some success, people who claim to have a V4 under the hood might actually have a clue what they're talking about.
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Tim UF 5:13PM (7/23/2006)
what bikes besides the Yamaha (Star?) VMax has had a lot of success?
could you not technically call the Subaru Boxer 4 engines V4's? (Granted they are 180degree opposed)
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exhaust note... 5:13PM (7/23/2006)
Is this a shared-journal V4? If so, it'll fire at 0, 90, 360 and 450 degrees (or 0, 270, 360 and 630, which would sound the same). Translation: it'll run like crap and shake like mad.
A split-journal V4 would run smoother, but then again it would fire every 180 degrees, the same as an I4.
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Chris 5:14PM (7/23/2006)
What are they trying to achieve? The only reason the V6 was developed was so they would fit transverse into FWD cars - an inline 6 is inherently better. An I4 is compact enough for nearly all applications with the exception of bikes and maybe super-micro cars.
What advantage does this have for emerging markets? By using a V configuration they will need to have camshafts for each bank and that can't be cheaper than an I4.
Anyone out there with any ideas about why this would be a better design than an I4?
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Chris 5:30PM (7/23/2006)
Also, the specs list the 1.6 liter unit as having 72nm of torque = 53 pound feet = inadequate.
For those than need to convert 1 NM = 0.738 pound feet of torque and 1 KW = 1.34 HP
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gary 5:50PM (7/23/2006)
Saab 96 1966-79 Ford V-4 engines..
http://www.motorbase.com/vehicle/by-id/786/
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JayP 6:17PM (7/23/2006)
Why not make a narrow-angle V like VW's VR5/6? Those engines are smooth, use 2 cams (12v), one head and take about as much space as an I4.
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Stphane Dumas 6:19PM (7/23/2006)
thanks gary for posting this link, also here a link to Wikipedia entry about the V4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V4
GM's old 3800 V6 got its origins from a V8 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine maybe a V4 derivated from a V6 or V8 engine could lower some costs.
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Al Eisensteinium 6:19PM (7/23/2006)
I had a Saab 96 with a V4 - it shook like a paintmixer. Broke motor mounts and the exhaust manifold twice. And to think I coulda had an inline 3, two stroke. Rr Rr Rr - more power - for my chainsaw! ;^)
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DKB_SATX 6:22PM (7/23/2006)
TimUF: The Honda Interceptor/VFR bikes are V4s and while they haven't had the success of the CBR bikes, they've been selling pretty well for a couple of decades.
Chris: While in inline-6 does offer some significant advantages, the earliest V6 engine I can think of was used by Buick and GMC in the 1960s, in RWD vehicles. If memory serves, at least one iteration of that design in the '60s used 6 coils, too. Good idea or bad, it wasn't developed "just for FWD."
The only read advantage of this I see is packaging... you could make the total volume the powertrain occupies a bit smaller. If you read the article, they've done an interesting experiment with a 2cyl version of the engine in a Ford Ka. The overall car is lighter, their engine makes more power than the 4cyl it replaces, and the modified car returns higher mileage and lower accelerations times than the original.
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Peter 7:22PM (7/23/2006)
Sweet! Wonder how easy it'll be to fit this in my '72 Sonett.
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UH2L 8:41PM (7/23/2006)
#1 Michael,
My sentiments exactly!
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Dan 8:51PM (7/23/2006)
Some engine somewhere might be a 90 degree V-4, but the one in the picture looks like 72 degrees. I'm sure the firing order is every 180 degrees on a 90-degree V-4. Anything else would be silly, right?
I have an SV650 with a 90 degree V-twin, which fires at 0 and 360. The engine is a little shaky at idle but is smoother than an I-4 bike engine at most speeds. I guess you could say it shakes but it doesn't vibrate. And the exhaust note has much more character.
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doglet 8:55PM (7/23/2006)
this engine seems like a good idea if your trying to get as much power into a very limited space as possible.
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Poopy Head 12:39AM (7/24/2006)
This would allow tiny compacts like the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris have longitudinal mounting and RWD. I'm not specifically saying those two cars, but cars in that class.
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Schneegz 5:13AM (7/24/2006)
Tim UF wrote, "what bikes besides the Yamaha (Star?) VMax has had a lot of success?"
Honda has built numerous bikes under the designation VFR of various displacements that have enjoyed great success, especially the VFR 750, 800, 800i, and now the 800 VTEC. The Honda ST1100 and ST1300 (Pan European across the pond) have also been very successful. Honda also used re-tuned versions of the VFR engine in cruisers, like the Honda Magna.
Yamaha also used a re-tuned version of the V Max engine in the road liner (a cruiser).
All the preceding have been very successful.
Now Ducati is selling a replica of its Motorcycle Grand Prix bike, the Desmosedici (sixteen valve) 990, with over 200hp from a 990cc, 90 degree V4. See the following article.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=3358&Page=1
Yeah, I know. I can't afford it either.
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Max 5:28AM (7/24/2006)
The HONDA VFR is a V4 and is the best selling sport touring bike around. It is NOT a 90 degree angle. The firing spacing is not even (as in an I4) hence the nice exhaust note but because of the additional 2 cylinders is not as rough as a twin. Dan I am sure the SV650 doesn't fire at 0 and 360. How smooth do you want the engine, perhaps a V12?
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Chris Pryor 6:13AM (7/24/2006)
UK/German Ford used a V4 for years in the Corsair and the first Transit. It allowed it to have a longtitudinal mount and a snub nose. (The diesels had an inline 4 and so needed a longer nose.)
Ford used a V6 long before they had fwd cars. It went into Capris, Granadas, Sierras and Emergency use transits.
I'm sure that with balancer shafts they could be made shake free.
Who cares how many cylinders a car has - true a V8 burble sounds nice and a 6 (and a triple) have a nice roar but so long as it starts every time, lasts nearly forever and uses next to no petrol who really cares.
I'd be happy with a single if it could deliver all of the above!
Chris
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Cameron Ing 6:19AM (7/24/2006)
Somehow I think that the torque output for the 1.6L version is a misprint. The power and torque outputs for the 2.0L and 2.1L versions are pretty stout for their size IMO, especially the 'Freizeit' version.
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MikeW 11:53AM (7/24/2006)
There are no non-split crankshaft journal V4s that are even firing. So why bother when an inline4 with balance shafts is better than a boxing 4 which is better than a V4.
A 360 crank V4 allow for the most power because it is effectively to inline2s in a Vee formation, and that allows the inline2 to be even firing and allows for exhaust resonance.
All boxing engines are 180 degree Vee engines with 180 degree split journals. (subset of Vee engines)
Ducati's big bang V4 is a joke, it is configured to mimic a V2 like the rest of the bikes they sell.
Ducati should have used a 'big crunch' 180 degree crank, 90 degree V4, firing intervals are 90, 90, 90, 450.
http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/V-TWIN-7.html
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