After recent disagreements with engine supplier Navistar, as well as dealing with Super Dutys that perform roman candle impressions, Ford is accelerating development of a new diesel engine for its burliest of pickups. Ford and Navistar played chicken earlier this year over warranty costs for the older 6-liter Powerstroke V8. That engine had a high number of issues that led to Ford covering repair costs. Ford in turn sued Navistar, the engine supplier, and held back payments for the new 6.4-liter Powerstroke in an effort to recoup some of their expense. Navistar decided they'd have none of it, and shut down engine production, slowing Super Duty production until a court order got the engines flowing again.
This acrimony has spurred Ford to come up with an alternative to Navistar engines in one of its most pivotal vehicles. The diesel and its muscle-bound tow rating attract plenty of buyers, and the Super Duty is at the top of the Ford Truck food chain, so problems here look bad. If your work truck doesn't work, you're in trouble. Ford can't afford to lose the profits from the Super Duty, nor can it accept tarnishing the image of the iconic F-Series trucks, so the Dearborn team is on it in the interest of exorcising Navistar powerplants from the engine bay and keeping that customer cash flowing.
[Source: AutoObserver]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Dandy @ Mar 27th 2007 8:40AM
That's the last thing you want to do, is rush engineering an engine for your premier work trucks where power and reliability is key ;)
James @ Mar 27th 2007 9:08AM
In my opinion I think they should either switch to Caterpillar engines, since they have used them in the bigger truck lines. Or finally give in and build there own engines, which is something that would separate Ford from all the other American truck manufacturers, since they all rely on other companies engines.
Lindsey @ Mar 27th 2007 9:33AM
I don't think Cat has a light duty diesel suitable for on the road use. There best bet would be to go with Cummins. One of the many problems that Ford has to worry about is whether the straight 6 in the Cummins will fit were a v8 was the orginal engine. Would that have to get the truck retested for crash test certification.
John P. @ Mar 27th 2007 9:34AM
I think it's time Ford develop it's own diesel line of engines anyway, but as #1 said, it's gonna take time to do it right. I think this is a good move in the end.
cdiddy67 @ Mar 27th 2007 9:56AM
I can't see how this could possibly end badly for Ford at all
Mr. Oak @ Mar 27th 2007 9:58AM
Two things:
I wonder if the FlameThrower "feature" was "engineered" in by Navistar as payback?
Navistar can now go play with their engines. The ones that Ford won't be buying anymore.
travis @ Mar 27th 2007 10:04AM
Ford can not put a Cummins in their truck, Dodge has too tight of a contract with them. They had already tried this several years ago but could not get it accomplished. I think that their best bet is to get a Cat motor in as quickly as possible.
wes @ Sep 3rd 2007 9:25PM
Ford owns cummins now and Dodge contract runs out in 2008, that is a hole new door that Ford could open, and it could be nothing but good.
Michael @ Mar 27th 2007 10:09AM
I just hope Ford warns all of it's dealers to get all of their service departments ready for all the trucks that will be towed in for warranty work. This will be a disaster for Ford as they don't have the money or the time to properly design an engine, yet another BOLD MOVE !!!
cowboy bob @ Mar 27th 2007 10:20AM
Travis is correct. Besides, Ford would not use the same engine as Chrysler anyway. Sadly, there simply is no good solution here. All previously produced Super Duties will be orphans, potential new buyers will hesitate and perhaps buy GM or Chrysler rather than a Ford knowing these problems, and Ford looses again. Add to this the new emission requirements for Diesel, and the rollout of any new or pirated engine for Ford is simply too late. Roll over Henry, your box is about to have company.
Shawn @ Mar 27th 2007 10:35AM
You do realize all Ford is doing is diverting more people & resources to a program to accelerate it. That is hardly "rushing" it. It is what Ford should have done years ago.
Hamud @ Mar 27th 2007 10:37AM
I just hope that Ford really come up with something up to the Super Duty standard, maybe taking some cues from the guys at Ford Europe may help.
Robert @ Mar 27th 2007 11:03AM
Volvo has a 5.5L I-6 in Europe that produces 300 hp and 650 torque standard, 400hp+ and 700 tor when tuned. My guess is that Ford is eyeing that engine. Volvo claims that its Penta engines will be US emissions compliant.
I guarantee you that with all the quality problems they could have, Ford, under its currently leadership (well... Mulally), would not do a rush job on such an important engine. I further contend that they will not be doing a ground up design, but rather modifying something in their line-up. Maybe expanding the 4.5 they're working on for next year or taking the 5.5 from Europe and upgrading it to 6.0-6.5.
Kevin @ Mar 27th 2007 11:06AM
I know that Cat was engineering a smaller diesel for 'a consumer level pickup truck'. I personally know one of the engineers working on the project. He would never say WHO was after this new diesel but there isn't too many people who would be interested. Everyone I talked with assumed that would be Toyota since they were the only one with heavy duty aspirations and no current diesel contract. It also made sense with the heavy placement of Cat products in the literature for the new Tundra. For example:
http://www.toyota.com/images/vehicles/2007/tundra/gallery/exterior/large/photo_6.jpg
You can also look at who sponsors one of the Camrys running in NASCAR.
http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/dblaney00/cup/index.html
However, recent news that Toyota has abandoned their heavy duty project leaves a Cat without a home.
Either way, whoever lands a contract with Cat will be starting off with one extremely powerful brand. It will give instant credibility to any truck.
JIm @ Mar 27th 2007 1:03PM
Someone weigh in here. Several years ago Ford had some sort of ownership lash-up with Cummins. They sold part of Cummins but also held onto part.
Obviously the I-6 Cummins Dodge uses are outside that lash-up, but I'd like to fill in the blanks?
And where does the new light-duty turbo V6 diesel Ford is suppose to put in their '08/'09 F-150s fall into this mix? Is it also from IH or a totally Ford product?
Personally, I like both the Cat and Volvo ideas. Given Cat's reputation, a Cat engine would give Ford an instant leg up on everyone else. Volvo has a lot of experience in this market and given the Ford-Volvo connection, would probably a cheaper alternative, but in the U.S. Cat is higher on the food chain.
Tagg @ Mar 27th 2007 1:17PM
I can't see how so many people think that this will be the end Ford. It seems to me that Ford has plenty of experience in engineering diesel engines just look at the European line-up. While they are mostly car and light vehicles the know how is there so I hardly think this is the end of Ford.
BVT @ Mar 27th 2007 1:28PM
"It seems to me that Ford has plenty of experience in engineering diesel engines just look at the European line-up."
This would be a great point if it wasn't offset by for Ford of NA inability to engineer a smaller diesel for the F150 line, which people have been requesting for years, not to mention diesels for the Ranger and the car line.
Perhaps the head honchos will finally clear the way for the European engineers to come in and do the job. I'm not holding my breath.
Bryan @ Mar 27th 2007 1:34PM
Good! Dump Navistar! They had plenty of time to get it right. Their previous application shouldn't have had so many problems as well. I look forward to seeing what Ford brings out with their own in house diesel. I highly doubt this will hurt sales. You still cannot beat a Ford truck!
why not the LS2LS7? @ Mar 27th 2007 2:27PM
The don't have a lot of options. There aren't a lot of companies that can make a Diesel of any that can meet the current onroad emissions requirements. Ford's European arm currently doesn't meet these specs, so I don't know what help they'd be.
They do need to fix this and fast though.
QUICK83 @ Mar 27th 2007 2:29PM
I have a brand new 2008 superduty and love it.Hopefully for me this eng will be a good one. I have and extremly long ext warentee!!This truck is a piece of work!! fit/trim/ride/power...everything!! I just hope it also has dependability. It will be cool if it turns out to be a fantastic motor and someone 10 years says you have a navstar/internation 6.4??? "That must be a rare engine, i never heard of that before.Didnt it blow flames out the exsaust when 1st came out?? cause ford took a bold move and put out a new technology in diesel exsaust???"