"I've heard that Ford lost $120 million last quarter" Yup, Net. They lost double that during the same quarter last year. Mulally turned around Boeing and is fixing ford, bringing Euro models over, realizing that stopping R&D at a car company assures the world ur intent on failing, retooling factories, Mulally gets it, Ford gets it, and unlike GM they can actually survive until new years without a bail out. I'm glad to see one of the big 2.3 doing it as right as we can expect.

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Only took them like what, 3-4 years to get some common sense?

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i can go for that.... Go FORD!


http://www.ROCKandREVIEW.com

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General Motors still outsold all others including Toyota in the month of October, and Chrysler came in fourth place. Apparently somebody wants the cars.

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hey, i'm trying to show tough love here. I love them all. GM the most, but Ford is making real progress.....Chryser... Meh, I'm still waiting for a big breakthrough.

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@happy_penguin: Funny thing about selling cars. There's selling cars at a profit, and then there's selling cars at a loss. One is good for business, the other not so good.

Associated Press: "Ford Motor Co. said Friday it lost $129 million in the third quarter ..."
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jcoo_edkfrOmKJ07kHTX1C0teJtAD94A64DO0

Associated Press: "General Motors Corp. reported a $2.5 billion loss in the third quarter ..."
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hrfGP53YnWGipuckEK3htwwlCw6AD94AA91G0

Wall Street Journal: "Toyota ... reported that its profit plunged 69% to 139.8 billion yen ($1.4 billion) in the July-September quarter."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-11-06-toyota_N.htm

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Correction: All 3 news articles I mentioned above originated from the Associated Press. The 3rd one did not originate from the Wall Street Journal.

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@happy_penguin:
Actually, GM outsold Toyota only if you count the fact that they dumped a full third of their sales into fleets to keep volume going. Toyota actually outsold them quite a bit if you just look at retail sales.
Because out of those "170,000" sales only 115K were retail sales...they pumped 55,000 cars into fleet sales. Toyota managed to push about 140K units in retail sales, and fleet sales made up under 10% of sales.

Selling a third of your cars to fleets at a massive loss isn't the way to be #1, but GM can't sell them at retail so they're pretty much stuck selling these cars for massive losses.

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Agreed. I'm glad Ford isn't taking the stupid route as it doesn't need to.

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Bigrocket, WTF does anything you said have to do with anything I said? What does it have to do with what Torrent said? I simply said people want the cars. The products are good. It's obvious that all you are here to do is bash the American automotive industry. Okay, we get it! Take the other arguments to those other discussions about the bailout and bankruptcy and all that other crap.

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"tekd @ Nov 13th 2008 7:07PM

@happy_penguin:
Actually, GM outsold Toyota only if you count the fact that they dumped a full third of their sales into fleets to keep volume going."

You mean the way Japan used to dump their cars at a loss on the United States?

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@ happypenguin:
"You mean the way Japan used to dump their cars at a loss on the United States?"

No, because Japanese car manufacturers were trying to get a break in a new market. We gave 'em that break (it was all they were asking for).

The big 3 are selling at a loss into a domestic market, because competition from other manufacturers is too stiff. Now, I wonder who they are?

There are two stages in life when you wear diapers and have no teeth...

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Wrong again, Rich. It's called dumping and it's an illegal business practice. There has been some suggestion that they're still up to their old ways:

http://www.glgroup.com/News/Is-Toyotas-Prius-Being-Dumped-On-The-US-Market--23242.html

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@happy_penguin: On the contrary, it had everything to do with what you wrote, "Apparently somebody wants the cars" made by GM. Yes, some people will want to buy GM cars, but only when the cars are sold at a loss. The last thing this country needs is for GM and its employees to feel smug just because they sold the most cars, when they are hemorrhaging cash and asking every taxpayer for a cut of your paycheck, my paycheck, and everyone else's. And if you think pointing that out is bashing GM and the domestic auto industry, fine with me.

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That's a load of BS and you know it. The statement suggested that nobody wants them. The answer is that there are plenty of people who want them. The issue of losses or no losses is one which will need to be addressed through cuts including pay cuts by the employees, but has nothing to do with whether or not the products are good or whether or not anyone wants to buy them.

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I really do want the ZR1 and Viper ;)

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@happy_penguin: If GM cars are really that good, if really that many people are willing to pay a price that allows GM to make a profit on the cars it sells, why is GM reporting a $2.5 billion loss for the last 3 months? Your rhetoric and denial aside, there remains the $2.5 billion loss, which isn't going away anytime soon in this economic downturn. Now is not the time for anyone to boast GM is better than Toyota, when GM lost $2.5 billion while Toyota made $1.4 billion in the same period. Again, you might think that is bashing GM, but I would suggest a dose of reality is precisely what the organization needs, instead of boasting how it sold more cars, at a loss.

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The cars are selling as well as they can in the downturn. Everybody is taking a hit in sales everywhere.

There's a serious issue with losses by "the big three" but the cars wouldn't be selling at all at any price if people didn't want them. Stating sales numbers is not boasting, it's stating a fact. Just as stating a $2.5 billion dollar loss is a fact.

The denial and rhetoric are yours because again this is not what the discussion was about. You just keep spinning it to suit yourself. Fine you can have it. I'm done.

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