Powered by (diesel) Honda
In conjunction with Honda's efforts towards bringing a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle to the States in 2008, plans are well underway to do the same thing for diesels that the automaker did for cleaner gasoline engines in the 70s.
Diesel-powered vehicles entering the U.S. have to meet stringent emission standards set by new legislation put into effect this year. Because of this hurdle, many manufacturers are looking towards using additives, like the urea-based injection system developed by DaimlerChrysler, to meet these standards.
Honda, on the other hand, is engineering a system that produces ammonia within the catalytic converter, changing harmful nitrogen oxide into just plain old nitrogen. The system is in the process of being tuned to accept a variety of diesel fuel, while still maintaining its low emissions, through chemical testing and programming through the federally mandated On Board Diagnostic System (OBD).
Honda plans on bringing the new diesel to the U.S. market within three years, soon after Volkswagen releases their own line of revamped diesels to consumers in 2008.
[Source: CNET]
Get a WordPress.com Blog
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Alan 8:50AM (9/25/2006)
Kudos to Honda. In 2008, there will be a choice of at least 3 automakers offering diesel in this country (Honda, DC, VW). Of course, in the meantime, since the US has jumped the gun on the clean air regulations, there is only DC in 2007.
Reply
Cosmo Kramer 8:54AM (9/25/2006)
Actually, they are targeting 2009 to introduce the diesel, if all goes to plan. As I have been predicting, Honda's engine R&D will help propel the company past Toyota in the not so distant future.
Reply
Fred D. 9:01AM (9/25/2006)
Hurry up Honda - I want my 45 mpg Accord!
Reply
federer 9:09AM (9/25/2006)
"Honda's engine R&D will help propel the company past Toyota in the not so distant future."
I don't think that is Honda'a goal at all, except to be considered a "greener" company than Toyota. Size is not their motivation. If it were they would have had a slew of SUVs and V8 enginees to offer the marketplace by now.
They and BMW are easily the best at leveraging technology to play to their strengths.
Reply
_O ^ O_ 9:36AM (9/25/2006)
#4 is right on. Honda is about smart, well planned growth. They may take longer than others to come to market with a new technology, but, they usually do it right. A Honda-BMW alliance would rock!
Reply
Bill 10:18AM (9/25/2006)
Honda will rehabilitate the reputation of the diesel engine for personal vehicles in the US. There are a lot of people who would be interested in a diesel CAR, but can't afford a Mercedes, or aren't willing to risk a VW.
Reply
Leo 11:20AM (9/25/2006)
A TSX with a 2.5 - 3.0L disel engine making 210HP and 260lb-ft adn getting something like 45mpg in the real world sounds pretty good.
Reply
matt 10:41AM (9/25/2006)
sweet. I have a 2005 passat diesel. over 40 mpg, lots of power, sporty and luxo, and takes Biodiesel. Bring over more clean diesels please.......an 35 mpg awd diesel Pilot or Ridgeline? Hmmmm........
Reply
Tim UF 11:04AM (9/25/2006)
Funny how americans are dumping more things into the exhaust, while honda is figuring out a way to better filter the same exhaust... should be cheaper to run without haveing to but purified urine to dump into a tank on the car every once in a while too...
Reply
AZMike 11:10AM (9/25/2006)
diesel cars have about as much a chance becoming mainstream vehicles in the US as hatchbacks do. they will always be niche vehicles.
why?
when the fuel cost is factored in (diesel is usually 30-40 cents more per gallon), the advantage of gas vs. diesel evaporates. and don't forget the increased maintenence costs that a diesel will incur, too.
I learned my lesson with diesel pickups. bought two trucks, one diesel, one gas. after 200,000 miles, the diesel had maintenence costs TRIPLE the cost of the gasoline truck. the fuel mileage difference was less than 3 miles per gallon.
diesel engines run at much higher compression (22:1 vs. 9:1), so be prepared for many leaks from gaskets, etc. also, hell knows no wrath like a leaky injector pump; your car will smell like diesel inside forever.
another factor to consider is where you drive. once you get off of interstate highways, diesel can be really hard to find; so hard, we used to carry two five gallon cans of diesel in case of emergencies. we used them at least once a month.
diesel is popular in other parts of the world, because it is considerably cheaper than gasoline. not the case in the US.
also, don't buy into the "diesel longevity" story, for two reasons:
1) most people don't keep a car for 400,000 miles, and
2) a well-maintained gasoline engine will last just as long, with minimal maintenence cost compared to the diesel.
Mike
Reply
dreesemonkey 11:10AM (9/25/2006)
I agree with Bill, I think this will be the move that finally makes americans want to buy diesels. I've always wanted one, but I'm not a VW fan. I'd like a 45mpg accord and a 30mpg tacoma (you listening, toyota?)
Reply
Ken 11:41AM (9/25/2006)
AZMike,
We're talking about Honda here. You honestly think you'll see those issues as rampant on a Honda? I'd love to see Honda delve into diesel. Not just for cars either. Imagine what their quiet diesel technology would do for their generators.
I'd trade my Ridgeline in a heartbeat for a turbo diesel upgrade. Don't get me wrong, the torque and milage is decent, but to improve on both would be a no-brainer.
Reply
Roger Frazer 11:47AM (9/25/2006)
Don' know why any one would want a diesel. Diesel fuel costs more than priemiam gas nowdays.
Reply
AZMike 11:47AM (9/25/2006)
for those who don't remember, this isn't the first "go-round" with Japanese diesel engines.
in the 80's, Nissan offered diesels in the small pickup, Sentra, and Maxima; Toyota offered them in the Corolla, Camry (turbo-diesel here), and the small pickup. Isuzu, Mazda, and Mitsubishi also offered diesels and turbo-diesels; none were good sellers, and all lasted less than three years.
besides the GM diesels of the late 70's-early 80's, GM also offered a diesel Chevette (Isuzu diesel), Ford had a diesel Escort, and Tempo/Topaz (these were all Mazda diesels), and Lincoln even offered a BMW turbo-diesel in the Mark VII and Lincoln Continental in 1985-1986. these were all miserable sellers, too.
just like now, everyone screamed for fuel efficiency, and the manufacturers responded. consumers responded by buying something else that wasn't diesel.
...and this was back when diesel was 20 cents per gallon cheaper than gasoline.
Mike
Reply
Don dada 11:53AM (9/25/2006)
I definitely agree with #2, 4, 5, 6.
Honda is all about smarter technology and not trying to take over the world like GM, Ford, Toyota. Honda is a small company with the best cars on the planet.
thank you Honda
Reply
AZMike 12:10PM (9/25/2006)
Ken,
a diesel is a diesel. they all have super-high compression (they have to), and leaks will occur. if you don't believe it, drop a match on a puddle of diesel fuel. the match will go out. the high compression is the only this that will cause the diesel fuel to ignite.
if you've never owned a diesel before, be sure to buy a glove. you'll need this at every fill-up. diesel fuel is just a few steps in in refinement from stones and twigs, and it doesn't evaporate. don't stand near the filler tube when the pump clicks off; it will usually shoot out and hit you. now, take the next few minutes to completely fill the tank; there will be about four gallons of foam (diesel fuel does this) in the tank that will need to go down before you can complete the fill-up. and stay away from pumps designed for semis; they pump even faster.
I've never been one to understand the Honda "walk on water" attitude that many people have. to me, it's just another Japanese car company. I've bought and sold cars for many years, and I would wholesale one of these as fast as it came in. on the ones we kept, we got to be experts at replacing head gaskets and CV joints; they always needed them.
what would really scare me is the thought of a company building their first diesel (like Honda), and buying one. in most of the other parts of the world, diesel is what everyone buys, and the engines have been around forever, with billions of road miles to prove them. not the case with Honda.
another interesting fact is how many will have modifications made by owners for more performance. the first thing you do is turn up the injector pump (which decreases economy), and make more modifications from there. kind of defeats any fuel economy advantages, doesn't it?
Mike
Reply
GT 12:12PM (9/25/2006)
As someone based in the UK AKMike's comments make interesting reading. Diesel fuel here is approx 30-40c a gallon more expensive than Unleaded, yet diesel sales are still on the up. Times have changes since the 80s and fuel economy on diesels with Common Rail technology has left gasoline engines far behind.
Yes, the price difference requires you to do more mileage to make up for the additional costs, but you will achieve far more than 3-4 mpg more.
I agree though that the country's infrastructure will need to be updated so you can get it! And it needs to be Ultra Low Sulphur too.
Reply
Rob 12:39PM (9/25/2006)
mike,
who says it'll be honda's first diesel? don't they already sell them in the UK and elsewhere?
Reply
Howard Kerr 12:57PM (9/25/2006)
This news really doesn't surprize me. I read, with a lot of interest, that Honda (like several other manufacturers) FINALLY decided that they needed a diesel powerplant to be competitive in many NON-U.S. markets. Diesels, built by other companies, have been in the engine bays of Hondas for DECADES. Honda finally started producing it's own diesels and putting them in Accords a few years ago. The Euro CRV and the FRV (a small MPV not sold in North America) are also sold with an optional Honda diesel.
The company that brought the world CCVC and V-TEC MAY be the same company to bring a non-urea using clean diesel to the markets of the world.
Reply
Chmeeee 1:01PM (9/25/2006)
AZMike, your experiences with diesel seem very extreme, I had almost none of those problems when I owned my Jetta TDI. Maybe it was the truck that was the problem, not the diesel?
"when the fuel cost is factored in (diesel is usually 30-40 cents more per gallon), the advantage of gas vs. diesel evaporates. and don't forget the increased maintenence costs that a diesel will incur, too."
First of all, diesel is usually only more expensive in the winter. Most summers its cheaper. This summer was an exception, however in the three years I owned my Jetta TDI, fuel cost approximately averaged out to the same per gallon as 87 octane gas.
Second of all, a 40 cent price difference does not wipe out the savings, it just reduces them. Assuming 15k miles per year and $3 per gallon for both fuels, a 2002 Jetta TDI will save $533 over the 2.0 gas engine. Make the diesel $3.40 versus $3.00 for gas, and it still saves $411. So your savings has been decreased by ~20%.
As far as your comments on maintenance, I never ran into a single problem over 70k miles. I realize that that doesn't bring me into the super high mileage range, but I knew plenty of people that had them up past 150k miles with no engine problems. Maintenance costs were similar, with oil changes costing more but required less frequently.
"another factor to consider is where you drive. once you get off of interstate highways, diesel can be really hard to find; so hard, we used to carry two five gallon cans of diesel in case of emergencies. we used them at least once a month."
I never ONCE had a problem finding diesel. I did not carry it with me and never ran out. Maybe you need to remember to fill up more often? At 600-700 miles per tank, if you manage to run out of fuel, then its more of an operator problem than a lack of availability. I knew plenty of stations off-highway that carried it. Generally any town that had a few gas stations had at least one with diesel.
"don't stand near the filler tube when the pump clicks off; it will usually shoot out and hit you. now, take the next few minutes to completely fill the tank; there will be about four gallons of foam (diesel fuel does this) in the tank that will need to go down before you can complete the fill-up."
Are you serious? In the three years I owned my car, I never ONCE had the pump spray back on me. Also, letting the foam go down typically allowed me to squeeze in another 1/2 gallon, not four. I get the same results with gas.
"I've never been one to understand the Honda "walk on water" attitude that many people have. to me, it's just another Japanese car company. "
Agreed.
"another interesting fact is how many will have modifications made by owners for more performance. the first thing you do is turn up the injector pump (which decreases economy), and make more modifications from there. kind of defeats any fuel economy advantages, doesn't it?"
I would say that this will probably account for about 1% of owners. How many people actually modify their cars? Also, when I chipped my TDI to bump power from 90 -> 115 and torque from 155 -> 210, my fuel economy went up (assuming I stayed out of it).
Reply