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Bob Lutz on Rover, Toyota, the Chinese market, and the world's best sports car...
The UK's Channel 4 had the opportunity to sit down with Bob Lutz - General Motors' head of product development, for those living in seclusion - and started the interview by comparing him to Jeremy Clarkson. WTF, you say? It's the dominating physical presence and bountiful opinions of both men that causes the interviewer to draw a line between the two (we're guessing that the views of each on the Buick Lucerne would still serve as a useful means to distinguish them).
Being a Brit-centric outfit, one of the first questions asked by Channel 4 is that of Rover's future. Despite Lutz's prior ownership of several MGs, he doesn't seem interested in dragging his current employer into a bail-out of the failed British automaker. But the big guy does seem to have some sympathy for Rover's plight, stating that he "sheds a tear" for the brand and says that it was the British car for "non-poseurs".
GM's product - that which is built in both the US and in Europe - matches up to Toyota in a variety of attributes that are properly lumped together under the heading of "build quality", according to Lutz. Bob says that nothing in Toyota's line-up "excites me as a car guy", and claims that the same is true for Lexus as well.
Check out the rest of our play-by-play after the jump...
China is something that seems to worry Lutz quite a bit, and he assesses the situation as "the whole western industrialised system is in a battle for survival against the growing Asian powerhouse." Maximum Bob says that the current wage gap between the West and East is not sustainable, but no indication is given as to which way things will tip.
On the topic of the world's best sports car, Lutz used to say that it was the Viper - but he now believes that the second-generation snake has "gone sideways" (we're assuming that this isn't in the power-oversteer-full-opposite-lock sense of the term), and thinks that the Corvette has taken the top spot. Sure, accuse him of bias, but consider from where he currently draws his paycheck.
There's plenty more from Lutz in this interview - the guy sure knows how to talk - so make sure to hit both Part 1 and Part 2.
[Source: Channel 4]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Ted K 9:32AM (5/24/2006)
he's dead on about toyota having nothing that excites car guys.
supra? dead.
mr2? first horrendously underpowered, then dead.
celica? dead.
tc? needs a supercharger and STILL can't keep up with the competition.
sc430? fat ugly and overpriced. just get a tiny dog and name it tinkerbell already.
sure they don't make money like a camry, but I NEED these kinds of cars. it's a safety issue. driving a toyota literally puts me to sleep.
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Philbert 10:02AM (5/24/2006)
Toyota has simply morphed into a Japanese version of Buick in the 90's. Boring cars with boring styling and boring handling driven by boring people. Sure you can make a bit of money going that route but it's a route with no future, especially now that they don't have the reputation for quality that they enjoyed a decade ago.
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Jon 10:39AM (5/24/2006)
Really? Toyota no longer has a reputation for quality? What would you call a quality car then? A GM product? Interestingly Lutz doesn’t mention that GM doesn’t have a lot of ‘exciting’ products either.
Jon.
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richard elsbree 10:41AM (5/24/2006)
Bob Lutz is no more relevent to todays car market than is Carroll Shelby.He
would build cars that appeal to a generation that is largely dead. Note how
much better Chrysler is doing without him.He and Rick should move to Boca
Raton and play shuffleboard.
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superV 10:48AM (5/24/2006)
really? toyota is not known for quality? interesting then that Forbes named Lexus, Toyota, and Honda for top honors in quality...
http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/vehicles/2006/04/20/reliable-vehicles-japanese_cx_dl_0424feat.html
"When we look at a list of the nine most reliable cars on the market one question comes to mind: Where are the American cars? While certain U.S. companies, such as General Motors' General Motors Buick subsidiary, are building increasingly dependable cars, only three brands -- Honda, Toyota Motor and Toyota’s Lexus subsidiary -- meet the most stringent standards for reliability."
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Corey W. 11:05AM (5/24/2006)
Depending on who does the survey, quality and reliability are two different things. I say that because when I ownded a Civic (CRX), the engine and tranmission was great, no problems with either up 180K, the problem was that by 120K everything else started to fall apart, mainly the interior...but again, it never stop running.
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s 11:06AM (5/24/2006)
3. Bob Lutz is no more relevent to todays car market than is Carroll Shelby.He
would build cars that appeal to a generation that is largely dead. Note how
much better Chrysler is doing without him.He and Rick should move to Boca
Raton and play shuffleboard.
I agree with you totally!!
Also Lutz saying GM quality somehow equals Toyota is bullshit. He's lying and their product shows that they are not honest.
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Brian 11:21AM (5/24/2006)
Oh yeah, superV, Forbes has SO much credability when it comes to cars ... :P
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Eric L. 11:34AM (5/24/2006)
#2 - Are Toyotas really more boring than equivalent vehicles from Ford and Chevrolet? Last I read, a 268hp V6 Camry accelerates from 0-60 in 6.1s. A 303hp V8 Impala does it in 6.0s. I guess 0.1s is really boring.
Toyota used to be boring, they are making an effort on being less so now. And its being well received by both customers (sales) and the media (favorable reviews). GM used to have a reputation of cheapness and low quality - they've made strides to improve on that - but it doesn't get nearly the same attention or credit as Toyota. I wonder why.
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Lithous 11:40AM (5/24/2006)
"really? toyota is not known for quality? interesting then that Forbes named Lexus, Toyota, and Honda for top honors in quality..."
I don't think Forbes is really doing any work here other than going to Consumer Reports and JD Powers and looking at some data (i.e. this isn't a new survey from Forbes they put hard work into or anything). They say the 3 companies (Toyonda and Lexus) do well on both CR and JD Powers (and I assume this is their criteria or data they used for their praise). The problem is the chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Everybody knows American cars do poor in CR. So if you do a true && false == false where JD Powers && CR == "bad for American vehicles" such that good && bad == bad) would be the case.
I really don't see anyone coming out with how scientific the CR figures are. I mean, is their readership and the subset of those readers who fill out the questionaire really a true indicator of facts (I mean scientifically, are all areas of the country represented and are there an equal amount of import and domestic owners replying)? What are the numbers, not just there are "3 million responses", that isn't detailed enough. And because GM sells more than 600K vehicles in the U.S. than Toyota (after subtracting fleet sales) is CR's stupid "dots" figured from percentages of vehicles with break-downs or total number? And are there 200K "subscriptions" (unknowingling) going to a facility owned by Toyota Motor USA and filling out perfect marks? The Asian automakers have jacked up horsepower ratings and their hybrids appear to be tuned such that EPA numbers are more off than gas cars are off the EPA numbers (are they tuned that way?). JD Powers at least sends out questionaires to people who have definitely bought cars (the vehicles for which a response is sent) and it is a lot harder to just trash a vehicle just to do it with JD Powers than it is with CR. I mean, CR readers filling out the questionaire (import fanboy ones) could think in their minds, "My friend has a Buick he doesn't like so I will represent his experience on my form" or "That Malibu sucks compared to my XYZ, I think I'll add in here that I have a Malibu with major break-downs". You can't do that with JD Powers. You get a questionaire for the car you purchased. Period.
I have a lot of questions about CR. Do I think it is a total conspiracy, no, but I really know so little about the process and my guess is so do 99% of the consumers that if I knew more about how CR got their numbers I would hopefully feel less like the figures COULD BE SKEWED. Anyone have a link to info about the CR questionaire process, in detail? I would really like to read it. I have seen some things about it but not to the detail I would like.
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Lee Gibson 11:41AM (5/24/2006)
"Toyotas really more boring than equivalent vehicles from Ford and Chevrolet?"
No. Leaving aside how low a hurdle you've set, the difference is this:
I can buy a Ford Mustang, or a Ford GT (my lottery car). I can buy a Chevy Z06, or even the beefed-up Solsky twins. Or I can buy a Toyota...nothing.
Are Toyotas reliable? Yes. Would I buy one? No. (Note that I probably wouldn't buy a Ford or GM either, but that's a different discussion).
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JSFORBES 11:49AM (5/24/2006)
Can someone explain to me why GM and Ford are supposedly doing badly because of unions while Chrysler is making a profit?
That guy looks really good for 74.
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Perspective 11:50AM (5/24/2006)
The unfortunate aspect of comparing Toyota to Buick is that *** BUICK _BEATS TOYOTA *** in initial quality; dependability, and customer service (per J.D. Power).
Lutz is also entirely right about the Lucerne's panel and interior gaps in the article: they are the equal of or better than those of Toyota/Lexus; Honda/Acura, and Nissan/Infiniti.
The Lucerne's interior shows the outgoing Infiniti G35's dashboard to have all the fit and finish of a kit car. There's switchgear from the senile Sentra in the G35, while Buick designers chase 0.5mm panel gaps in Lucerne.
Lutz once said that he'd like to see an end to the stereotyping of domestic cars in print. There is no doubt that it exists, and it does not serve the consumer or the enthusiast.
Incidentally - the reader above who suggested that '90s Buicks were "boring" must never have had the pleasure of driving a supercharged one. The 1995-1999 Riviera, additionally, was dubbed a "modern classic" in several credible circles -
- never will you see that slogan associated with today's Toyota.
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Sketch 1:10PM (5/24/2006)
#8 "Are Toyotas really more boring than equivalent vehicles from Ford and Chevrolet? Last I read, a 268hp V6 Camry accelerates from 0-60 in 6.1s. A 303hp V8 Impala does it in 6.0s. I guess 0.1s is really boring."
Yeah, but the 5L V8 probably makes a good 100 lb-ft of torque over the 3.x L V6. So, if you define torque steer as exciting, then yes, the Chevy will be more exciting. ;)
#12 "Incidentally - the reader above who suggested that '90s Buicks were "boring" must never have had the pleasure of driving a supercharged one. The 1995-1999 Riviera, additionally, was dubbed a "modern classic" in several credible circles - never will you see that slogan associated with today's Toyota."
The supercharged 3.8L used in the buicks in the 90's topped out at 265hp. According to #8, Toyota beats that with their current naturally aspirated Camry engine. Also, consider that the Buicks were heavier, and I don't think any of them even broke a 7-second 0-60, so those cars were at least a second slower to 60mph. Admittedly, Toyota has had about 10 years to do better so it's not really much of a surprise. Progress marches on...but do you really expect that slogan applied to "modern Buick" either? One could argue that the 1995 Toyota Supra is much more of a classic than any Buick made in the last 10 years. Of course, you could go back further and compare it to the GN... There are examples on both sides, but honestly they're both pretty boring these days.
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Peter 1:30PM (5/24/2006)
Sorry there sunshine. Have you driven a Lucerne? GM can say all they want, but the interior is still cheap with visible mold lines on the plastic. Get leather seats and they use fabric along the sides where normal car makers would use vinyl. Cheap chrome accents don't make a car any better.
Those JDP surveys are crap. They're like asking a five year old if he's happy with his new big wheel. Most car buyers don't know enough to make a sound judgement.
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Road Ho 1:37PM (5/24/2006)
Thanks Perspective,
If you look at Consumer Reports consumer ratings you will find that the owners of the Lucerne rated it highest of all cars CR has tested. Of course CR testers, Toyota suck-ups(that because of money), rates Lexus slightly higher. Those that rely on CR for valid, reliable information, are wasting their time.
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Road Ho 1:42PM (5/24/2006)
#13 Peter,
No Peter you information is crap, and frankly you don't know what you are talking about. Maybe next time you decide to spread false information, you should at least take a look at the car you are trying to put down. Why don't you go back to suckin' eggs.
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Sewer Wolve 1:43PM (5/24/2006)
Bob Lutz is an old senile buffoon, put down the liquor. He looks like a drunk idiot in that pic, yeah nothing in Toyota's lineup excite him. Well yeah, you're company is real exciting at making bad news lmao. You won't last in the global market Lutz, everyone knows it.
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Larry S. 1:49PM (5/24/2006)
Just because this idiot was in the Marines, he thinks he's a hot shot. This is not the old days buddy, all talk and no action don't work anymore.
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Road Ho 1:51PM (5/24/2006)
17. Bob Lutz is an old senile buffoon, put down the liquor. He looks like a drunk idiot in that pic, yeah nothing in Toyota's lineup excite him. Well yeah, you're company is real exciting at making bad news lmao. You won't last in the global market Lutz, everyone knows it.
Posted at 1:43PM on May 24th 2006 by Sewer Wolve
Just how long have you been using crack.......inquiring minds want to know.......
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