Autoblog

Give me a break. Automakers in Europe have easily shattered the 50-mpg mark without a tax payer dime ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17344368/ ). If Detroit wants our hard earned cash they better be ready to actually innovate for a change

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Hey John, that's corporate AVERAGE fuel economy not one model per manufacturer.

I do agree with you to this point; if gas were $8 a gallon here every manufacturer would have at least one model that gets avg 40-50mpg. But it doesn't, so we don't care, so we don't.

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European fuel economy standards are not the same as US. Mazdaspeed3 gets 24 MPG in Europe and 20 MPG here. They're the same vehicle.
Also Europeans use diesels. That's about 50% more expensive than gasoline right now. It's about 20% more fuel efficient, but it also has a higher energy content and spews out more pollutants than regular gasoline. Technology has made it cleaner than gasoline, but there are still pollution disadvantages.

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John D,

1) Europe uses Imperial Gallons, not US Gallons (1 imperial gallon = 1.2 US gallon). Do the math.
2) You are siting individual models to compare whereas CAFE pertains to the whole fleet. 50 mpg CAFE would mean econo boxes would probably need > 75 mpg to balance out all the trucks necessary for the construction trade, etc.
3) Europe has less stringent pollution standards for diesel engines. Why do you think there are so few diesel options here? Conspiracy?
4) Europe's EPA equivalent uses different methodology than our EPA. You are comparing apples to oranges.

It asinine to believe that we can legislate 50 mpg and it will be so.

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While I don't neccessarily think 50MPG (especially under the new EPA measurements) is really a realistic goal for 2020, to be fair it's taxpayer money so Congress can put whatever stipulations they want on it since the money is at least theoretically supposed to go towards new R&D and not merely to pay their existing bills.
The senator does have a point though about the carmakers being so resistant to mileage mandates through the years-they probably wouldn't have been hit so badly by $4 a gallon gas if they had agreed to more hardcore fuel standards years ago, they would have had to make a lot more small and fuel efficient cars instead of the huge suvs they got stuck not being able to sell.
But 50MPG by 2020 is just not something Detroit is really capable of. Maybe by 2030 they could pull it off but seriously, if GM can't even get the Cruze here until 2011 how are they going to get to 50MPG by 2020?

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Fifty mpg is easily achievable. In fact, the Big 3 achieved between 72 mpg (Ford Prodigy and Chrysler ESX-3) and 80 mpg (GM Precept) about eight years ago in the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehices DOE funded reserach program. This mileage is in full size four door sedans!

Step One: Get rid of excessively ridged environmental regs that prevent usng diesel-hybrids.

Step Two: Tax diesel at the same rate as gasoline.

Step Three: Use a graduated scale to put a BIG tax on fuel guzzlers and give a BIG incentive for hyper-mileage cars and trucks.

We could be driving cars that get 100 mpg within a couple of years using currently availble technology (Full plug-in, series drive, diesel-electric hybrids).

A program like this would give the U.S. Big 3 someting to build that people would actually want to buy. That is the only wsay to save the U. S. auto industry.

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All Detroit needs and needed is to move to diesel!
Get rid of most gasoline engines and sub with diesel.
the cars will average, without hybridization, 30+ mpg. Add hybridization and the average is easily 40+! And for those who still want gasoline engines, they will be put inside compact and sub compact mainly.
The unions and low level management HAVE TO agree to reduction of 20% in their salary, upper management 60%, and middle management 35%. If they all agree to such terms than bankruptcy ch.11 can be avoided. If they don't, ch 11 is the solution!

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Mr. Fusion only powers the flux capacitor. the internal combustion engine uses gasoline to get upto 88MPH.

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hell yeah
maybe more like 150 billion or so
now, i'd make them have at least two models meet 50mpg, and keep the 35mpg fleet average

Ford with the coming fiesta will be close to the 40mpg mark already - put DI, smaller engine, 95HP, 2 door hatch, and possibly the diesotto design Mercedes is talking about and that thing should turn 50-55mpg easily

but 25 billion is not going to make all this happen

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Bull.

Google the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (PNGV). Hyper-mileage is achievable now with current technology.

I do not agree with CAFE because it is not a good policy tool. Let people buy what they want - but use stiff penalties and incentives to move the auto industry to hyper-mileage. We need this for our economy and we need it so we can stop giving hundreds of $billions per year to people who want to kill us.

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VW's having zero issues selling diesel cars in the US. The only BS is the lack of effort on the big 2.3's part to build a cali compliant diesel engine - you know the entire reason vw pulled theirs from the market for two years.

Then again, the Jetta gets below 50mpg on the EPA's fancy new tests so I'm curious how anyone could meet that standard given cars which are already returning 50mpg don't even rate in that range.

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The WHOLE fleet has to get an average of 50 MPG. Sounds easy if you just bring over diesels. But what about the HD trucks they sell? Those things barely get over 10 MPG.

You also have to remember that the Big 3 would have to spend a ton of money to get those diesels to pass US restrictions. Also, not an easy task. And what's to say the government doesn't change those restrictions down the road?

You know what's interesting, when our great government put the 35 MPG figure out there, the Big 3 weren't the only ones crying. Everyone is already dropping numbers on how much it's going to cost to get to 35 MPG.

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"BS. Ford and GM already have 50+ mpg diesels in their compact ranges overseas."

You can't compare those cars with what the EPA will accept here. Diesel is heavily subsidized in Europe and their emissions regulations are much easier to meet as a trade off to get the good fuel economey.

Emissions and safety is way more strict in the US and that's why you do not see many of those vehicles imported here.

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You are an idiot. They do not have 50mpg diesels, and certainly not ones that meet emmissions standards here in the US (and that will be the standard in Europe in 3 years). It is impossible to make exact correlations between European and American testing, but for comparison, the "european" TDI Jetta only gets 40mpg on the highway. And having one or two engines that get exceptional fuel economy does not mean the entire prodcut line averages 50mpg. Good luck getting a 50mpg truck with any utility that anyone can afford.

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@ rsmith
"You are an idiot. They do not have 50mpg diesels..."

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/10/ford-says-no-diesel-for-you-to-american-buyers/

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