Filed under: Car Buying, Economy, Euro, Hatchbacks, GM, Saturn
Lutz: Saturn Astra too expensive, not profitable
Click above for high-res gallery of the 2008 Saturn Astra XR
Car buyers here in the States are clamoring for fuel efficient transportation, but so far the Saturn Astra hasn't been on the top of buyers lists. The Astra is a smash hit in Europe and we liked it during its short stay in the Autoblog Garage, but it may just be too expensive compared to the competition with a starting price of $16,495. General Motors isn't keeping the price high to make a profit on the small volume import, either. GM vice chairman and quote master Bob Lutz told Automotive News that the Belgian-made Astra isn't profitable in the U.S. at all anymore due to the weak value of the Dollar vs. the Euro. The Astra has gone up in price by $500 since its introduction to reflect the broadening gap between the two currencies, and the price hike was implemented only to lessen the hit from the currency exchange. The Astra is not just a financial burden for the General – it isn't exactly a sales success, either. GM has sold only 7,914 so far this year, which is far below the projected pace of 25,000 annual units. Part of the problem is that few people actually know the Astra exists, and those who do may not want to pay the relatively high price of entry. If you've driven or own an Astra, let us know what you think of it in the comments.
[Source: Automotive News - sub. req'd]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
mike 10:37AM (9/08/2008)
I want an apology from everyone in here who attacked me for saying that Astra was too expensive. Everyone in here kept saying ohh no, it is more expensive than Civic because in is From Europe, because it has more features. My argument was that it doesnt matter, Civic is the measuring bar, you are either better or worse than Civic, Saturn is worse, and more expensive.
I kept saying that no sane person in the world will pay $1,300 for a 4 speed Automatic and $500 for stability Control, everyone in here said no Mike you are wrong, if I needed a car Id love to pay ONLY $1,300.
BTW, just so you know, even Corvette doesnt charge $1,300 for an Automatic.
The RANT is over.
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Tom 10:39AM (9/08/2008)
Holy $&*! mike! You just won at the internetz!!
congratz.. nobody cares :)
Torrent 10:55AM (9/08/2008)
I ain't apologizing for crap.
Soccer Mom 11:04AM (9/08/2008)
I didn't comment on Astra before, but I am sorry The Internet hurt your feelings.
TJ 11:07AM (9/08/2008)
That would be wonderful and all... except the Astra competes head to head with the Golf/Rabbit, not the Civic.
Your post = FAIL.
Gary 11:13AM (9/08/2008)
This isn't a kiddy arguing corner, people.
MikeMidd 11:40AM (9/08/2008)
Surprise, surprise, they botched up what could've been a solid seller.
GM still doesn't get that it's not just the price that counts. It's what you get for it. With the Astra, you get:
1. Uninspired engine
2. Really cheap feeling interior, complete with strange/tiny screen and controls that are poorly marked. The entire thing was flat grey on the model I saw, too, it just looked bland.
3. Hatchbacks only. Americans like sedans, duh.
4. FOUR SPEED AUTO!?!?
5. A car that has no image anymore. Saturn is of no interest to Americans, after years of depositing a mediocre product on lots, it just isn't on the radar screen anymore.
Switch up the transmission. Improve the interior, so that it is on par with the Vue and Aura, which actually look nice. Bring us the sedan model.
You know, do the things that actually would sell the car by making it as appealing as its competitors.
Typical GM.
Matt 2:09AM (9/09/2008)
The Astra costs more money because it's MORE CAR.
Honestly, how many people so ignorantly post (such as yourself) on these blogs, without even touching the vehicles they're commenting/ripping on.
The Astra utilizes soft-touch plastic interior... how many cars in the $16-20k price range (and more specifically, in the class) can say that? Only the Hyundai Elantra, that I can think of. And trust me, I've either owned, driven, or rented A LOT of vehicles.
The Astra not only uses higher quality plastics and materials, but the design is still very European, which could be taken either good or bad (given personal preference), however I consider it to be a nice change from the competition.
Rayw 3:36PM (10/12/2008)
I started selling THE REAL SATURN'S in Dec of '90. I left after 7 1/2 yrs. 11 years later I came back to an all GM car line, not THE REAL SATURN'S. In the early 90's we were the #1 car in the JDPowers, Popular Mechanics. Motor Trend et al surveys a # of times. I sold one Astra in the four months I WAS here. Mainly. do to a Mazda dealer being 100 yards West of us and having "3's" that were two to three thousand dollars LESS than an Astra and getting better gas mileage. Not to mention that these cars today don't stand a chance of going over three hundred thousand miles as 5 of my personal customers have done. RW
vpoort 10:38AM (9/08/2008)
Kill Saturn.
Their cars are no longer unique since they merged Saturn operationally and financially with the rest of the GM empire. At best they're re-badged Chevy's (not unlike Olds, Pontiac, and Buick).
At one time Saturn was the best part of GM.
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hankfidel 11:14AM (9/08/2008)
I say kill Saab first.
Jim 11:01AM (9/08/2008)
None of their cars are Chevys, and truth be told two of Chevys cars started their lives AS Saturns (Cobalt being one of them as its just a cleaned up Ion)
No the issue with the Astra is very easy to see.
Its expensive for its class, and while the ride shows it being much better than any car I have driven Japanese or American with one of the BEST American sub-compact interiors ever, the refinement sucked.
Problems with the Astra as is
1) Engine is the SAME engine from the 1990 SL/SC series, and is mated with the SAME transmission. The stick should be 5 for base 6 for XR and the Auto should be 4 for base 5 for XR with a manualmatic on it. There is no diesel option (unlike Europe) nor does the engine in there have any refinement to get more MPG or more speed out of it. Here there is NO excuse from GM for this cockup, I 100% FULLY Blame Lutz for that one as he is the one who for whatever reason thinks Americans cant take the european engines.
2) GMs insistence on NOT including any proper digital age refinements to their vehicles. The Astra doesn't even have the european AUX port thanks to the companies insistence on selling On-star which everyone dumps after 1 year. And for 300 dollars I can get a aftermarket stereo that does bluetooth and syncs with any digital player I want, while GM insists on using On-star for phones (which screws you if you use anything but Verizon) and Aux ports for digital players forcing you to have to juggle the player to find a song while everyone else can use steering wheel controls even on their low end econo-boxes. I mean come on I WANT a Astra but making me have to buy a 100 dollar in-line radio adapter to even listen to my iPod in it? Your fault Lutz.
GM has basically abandoned the Astra from the start. When have you seen a ad for it? Anywhere? Even the Ion had more ads and that was the car that made me abandon Saturn after owning two SL2s for Chevy who took the platform and made a decent looking car instead of cocking it up so bad it was heavy enough to ruin any improvement having the better 2.2l ecotech in the car made.
So quite frankly its YOUR fault Lutz you screwed the pooch on the Astra. It was going to be the car I went back to Saturn on.... I lusted after it when it came out. Instead its the reason I am looking at Mazda, VW, and Honda for my next machine. You may have improved GM out of the hole it was in with your SUVs, but in the current age of the small car, your a dinosaur that needs to die for the good of the general.
tanooki2003 11:12AM (9/08/2008)
I second your comment Jim.
I couldn't have said it better myself
why not the LS2LS7? 11:37AM (9/08/2008)
Jim, you really got my hopes up. My 1991 Saturn SC was incredibly reliable, and the (manual) transmission was very good, shifted well, even had a hydraulic clutch.
But it was a 120HP 1.9L (LL0) engine with fixed valve timing. This is a 140HP 1.8L engine with VVT on intake and exhaust. The internets say it is is a family 1 EcoTEC (DCVCP).
I do agree that for the money charged, it probably should be a 6-speed. I have no opinion on the automatic because I would never get this car with an automatic.
Your AUX port rant is a little unfocused, but the Astra does lack an AUX port, so you can't attach an mp3 player. And I agree, GM has to stop dumbing down their handsfree options in deference to OnStar. They've started to fix it on higher end cars (the CTS got Bluetooth only a few months ago!), it's time to do it everywhere.
I loved my early Saturn, a co-workers 1997-ish is good too. The later SL/SC got crappy in the interior (I despise center instruments). The rest of your post I wholeheartedly agree with.
jgp 1:50PM (9/08/2008)
It is not the same engine.
The Saturn Astra has the 1.8L Family 1 engine that's all over the place in Europe.
The old SL/SC/SW models had a Saturn-exclusive 1.9L engine.
With that said, GM needs to be smacked for not bringing over the 2.0T (or the newer 1.6T) engine used in the uplevel Euro-spec models. No, I'm not talking about the VXR (though it would be a nice GTI-fighting halo, and would help sales)--the regular 2.0T models will do for American tastes. The 1.8L with 138hp isn't enough for American tastes. Hell, the 2.0T almost entirely identical to the Ecotecs used through most of GM's US line (hell, I think it's completely identical to the Saab 9-3's base engine).
Torrent 2:45PM (9/08/2008)
hankfidel: I say kill you first.
Chase 10:40AM (9/08/2008)
The only other euro hatch from Europe sold in the US is the Rabbit. I had high hopes for the Opel, but GM took a lot of the spunk out of a car that should be pretty spunky. That, and I don't think it stacks up very well to the Rabbit.
I think if it had a premium version akin to the GTI, it would get a lot more street credibility. Currently it has "Corolla competitor" written on it -- not "Mazda 3 and Rabbit competitor," like it should.
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Eddie 10:49AM (9/08/2008)
It needs a more powerful version to compete with the GTI and Civic SI. Use the Cobalt SS engine, add a more aggressive body kit, some nice wheels, and I think it would be a winner.
Mark 11:44AM (9/08/2008)
google "vauxhall astra vxr", is that what you have in mind?
Noidor 12:34PM (9/08/2008)
Mr. Lutz can spin it his way as much as he wants, but I don't but it. Typically I agree with a range of topics with him, but here I just call BS!
1) Astra was never advertised properly. Thus no one knew it existed.
2) This is a brand new model which hasn't even had a chance to gain a smidgeon of familiarity.
3) It was never advertised to driving enthusiasts, nor the general public. No specific group had any idea, what it is, why is it here, and why pick it over competition! Where are the bullet points?
4) They de-contented the interior, put a crap tranny in it. Basically cheapened it the best way possible.
What Lutz needs to understand is that hatchbacks can be successful in US, if they aren't just pretty, but overall practical vehicles to own, and lastly have entertaining driving dynamics.
Any car, must do everything as well as the competition and excel in 2-3 areas if it is to succeed.