Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, Euro, Green, Honda, Autoline on Autoblog
Autoline on Autoblog with John McElroy
John McElroy is host of the TV program "Autoline Detroit". Every week he brings his unique insights as an auto industry insider to Autoblog readers.
DRIVING A DIESEL CIVIC
By John McElroy
For the past week I've been tooling around town in a diesel powered, Euro-spec Honda Civic. I like it so much, and it attracts so much attention, that it makes me wonder why Honda never decided to sell this car in the 'States.
First off, the European version of the Civic looks so much sportier than the U.S. model. It's sleeker and sexier than what we get here, including the Si!
Continue reading after the jump and check out the bonus video of John McElroy doing a walk-around with the Honda Civic Sport five-door hatchback.
Though the version I drove is a 5-door hatchback, thanks to some well-executed styling tricks, it actually looks like a 2-door coupe. The front door handles are oversized and given extra prominence to draw your eyes to them, while the rear handles are strategically hidden just above the belt line at the trailing edge of the rear windows. The cut lines for the rear doors are also partially integrated into the daylight opening (DLO), making them harder to spot. And the rakish angle of the rear sail panel tricks your eyes into thinking the car is more compact than what you'd expect from a 5-door.
The headlamps, hood, front fascia and fenders, are beautifully blended into one smooth, bullet-shaped nose. The trailing corners of the hood actually form the base of the A-pillars, creating an almost un-broken sweeping line from the leading edge of the hood up into the roof. From the side, there is a pronounced wedge shape to the car. And in the rear, the backlite is split into two different sections. This helps mask the fact that it's a hatchback, yet undoubtedly contributes to the aerodynamics since it also forms an integrated rear spoiler. Overall, the car has an aggressive stance that just begs you to drive it hard.
But the real reason I ended up spending a week in this car has to do with the engine, the 2.2 liter i-CTDi diesel to be precise. It's a remarkable motor and reminds me of a private dinner I had a decade ago in Tokyo with Hiroyuki Yoshino, then CEO of Honda. We talked about all kinds of plans Honda had for alternative fuels and alternative engines, but Mr. Yoshino assured me the company would never, ever build a diesel. I was surprised, to say the least. Why would Honda, a company known for its engine prowess, swear off diesels? Yoshino-san assured me that diesels ran counter to the company's affinity for high-revving engines, and that they could not meet their customers' expectations. But then diesel mania took Europe by storm, and any mass-market automaker without one is locking itself out of half the market. So Honda engineers rolled up their sleeves and came out with an engine that would even make Rudolph Diesel burst with pride.
You all know the story on modern, direct injection, common rail, turbo-diesels: quiet, smooth, clean and powerful. The same is true with the i-CTDi but with one added wrinkle. It's fitted with a variable nozzle turbo (VNT) that gets it to spool up fast at low revs, yet breathes freely at highway speeds. That comes courtesy of my pals at Honeywell who make the Garrett turbo, and who were ever so nice to drop the car off at the office for me to evaluate.
The effect of the VNT is terrific. This thing pulls strong from the moment you dump the clutch. Light throttle, part throttle, full throttle, it doesn't matter. The torque just keeps on coming.
In Europe Honda claims this combination will go 0-to-60 mph in a little over 8 seconds, which compares to about 12 seconds for the gasoline hybrid Civic. But while the EPA rates the hybrid at 42 mpg, I was getting about 44 mpg with the diesel. In other words the diesel gets slightly better fuel economy but with a substantially more performance. In Europe, the diesel Civic is priced slightly under the hybrid. And over there, diesel fuel is cheaper than gasoline. Does the hybrid even stand a chance?
Honda plans to make this diesel engine available in the U.S. sometime in 2009, which is when it figures it will be able to meet our stringent diesel emission standards. I can hardly wait, especially if they decide to wrap it up in that sexy European body.
Autoline Detroit
Airs every Sunday at 7:00AM on Speed and 10:30AM on Detroit Public Television
Last Week's Show - "The Green Mile"
Autoline Detroit Podcast
Click here to subscribe in iTunes
DRIVING A DIESEL CIVIC
By John McElroy
For the past week I've been tooling around town in a diesel powered, Euro-spec Honda Civic. I like it so much, and it attracts so much attention, that it makes me wonder why Honda never decided to sell this car in the 'States.First off, the European version of the Civic looks so much sportier than the U.S. model. It's sleeker and sexier than what we get here, including the Si!
Continue reading after the jump and check out the bonus video of John McElroy doing a walk-around with the Honda Civic Sport five-door hatchback.
Though the version I drove is a 5-door hatchback, thanks to some well-executed styling tricks, it actually looks like a 2-door coupe. The front door handles are oversized and given extra prominence to draw your eyes to them, while the rear handles are strategically hidden just above the belt line at the trailing edge of the rear windows. The cut lines for the rear doors are also partially integrated into the daylight opening (DLO), making them harder to spot. And the rakish angle of the rear sail panel tricks your eyes into thinking the car is more compact than what you'd expect from a 5-door.
The headlamps, hood, front fascia and fenders, are beautifully blended into one smooth, bullet-shaped nose. The trailing corners of the hood actually form the base of the A-pillars, creating an almost un-broken sweeping line from the leading edge of the hood up into the roof. From the side, there is a pronounced wedge shape to the car. And in the rear, the backlite is split into two different sections. This helps mask the fact that it's a hatchback, yet undoubtedly contributes to the aerodynamics since it also forms an integrated rear spoiler. Overall, the car has an aggressive stance that just begs you to drive it hard.
But the real reason I ended up spending a week in this car has to do with the engine, the 2.2 liter i-CTDi diesel to be precise. It's a remarkable motor and reminds me of a private dinner I had a decade ago in Tokyo with Hiroyuki Yoshino, then CEO of Honda. We talked about all kinds of plans Honda had for alternative fuels and alternative engines, but Mr. Yoshino assured me the company would never, ever build a diesel. I was surprised, to say the least. Why would Honda, a company known for its engine prowess, swear off diesels? Yoshino-san assured me that diesels ran counter to the company's affinity for high-revving engines, and that they could not meet their customers' expectations. But then diesel mania took Europe by storm, and any mass-market automaker without one is locking itself out of half the market. So Honda engineers rolled up their sleeves and came out with an engine that would even make Rudolph Diesel burst with pride.
You all know the story on modern, direct injection, common rail, turbo-diesels: quiet, smooth, clean and powerful. The same is true with the i-CTDi but with one added wrinkle. It's fitted with a variable nozzle turbo (VNT) that gets it to spool up fast at low revs, yet breathes freely at highway speeds. That comes courtesy of my pals at Honeywell who make the Garrett turbo, and who were ever so nice to drop the car off at the office for me to evaluate.
The effect of the VNT is terrific. This thing pulls strong from the moment you dump the clutch. Light throttle, part throttle, full throttle, it doesn't matter. The torque just keeps on coming.
In Europe Honda claims this combination will go 0-to-60 mph in a little over 8 seconds, which compares to about 12 seconds for the gasoline hybrid Civic. But while the EPA rates the hybrid at 42 mpg, I was getting about 44 mpg with the diesel. In other words the diesel gets slightly better fuel economy but with a substantially more performance. In Europe, the diesel Civic is priced slightly under the hybrid. And over there, diesel fuel is cheaper than gasoline. Does the hybrid even stand a chance?
Honda plans to make this diesel engine available in the U.S. sometime in 2009, which is when it figures it will be able to meet our stringent diesel emission standards. I can hardly wait, especially if they decide to wrap it up in that sexy European body.
###
Autoline Detroit
Airs every Sunday at 7:00AM on Speed and 10:30AM on Detroit Public Television
Last Week's Show - "The Green Mile"
Autoline Detroit Podcast
Click here to subscribe in iTunes

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Throwback 4:38PM (11/29/2007)
Does anyone doubt that these super refined diesels will sell? Yes price is important but if they sell a diesel Civic at the same price as the Hybrid, the diesel will dominate the sales.
Reply
Hooper 4:41PM (11/29/2007)
"But while the EPA rates the hybrid at 42 mpg, I was getting about 44 mpg with the diesel. In other words the diesel gets slightly better fuel economy but with a substantially more performance."
That's not an apples-to-oranges comparison. Different cars should be compared using identical tests. I'm not trying to hype hybrids over diesels, just calling you to task for being intellectually dishonest.
Reply
Corey L 5:06PM (11/29/2007)
I don't think it's dishonest. The diesel is more efficient in the literal sense.
I believe what you're eluding to is that while the hybrid (not a fanboy myself) is less efficient, it may do less harm to the environment.
Big Socket 5:47PM (11/29/2007)
No, he's saying it's not really fair to compare the EPA rating of one car to the real world results of another. If you're going to compare one to the other then they either both should be EPA ratings or both should be real world ratings. Saying that one is more or less than the other (EPA vs Real World) really says nothing.
rwcmick 4:44PM (11/29/2007)
At a blogger dinner w/ Bob Lutz a couple of weeks ago, I had asked Maximum Bob about GM's plans for diesel cars. No real news was uncovered, as he simply stated that the only way GM sees a 50 state legal diesel is with a expensive after treatment (i.e. urea) and that HCCI should give most of the bang w/o the buck.
I followed up by asking Bob why it is that Honda is preparing to launch a 50 state legal diesel in the USA without using urea to battle NOx. Bob's theory is that Honda will be using emissions credits or some such thing b/c he hasn't seen any way to get EPA Tier 2 Bin 5 / CA LEV II compliant.
I like Mr. Lutz and he think he's doing a great job, but I don't buy his Honda diesel theory. I think Honda is on to something. Any thoughts?
Reply
Ducky 5:21PM (11/29/2007)
Honda has developed a new catalytic converter for the diesel that doesn't need urea to achieve tier 2 bin 5 emissions standards. It has one layer that absorbs NOx emissions (reducing it that way), and converts it to ammonia- then, just like urea injection systems, it uses that ammonia to further neutralize NOx emissions into nitrogen. The new diesel engine also has even higher pressure in its common rail injection system. It's ingenious because unlike taking "the easy way out" (i.e. using urea injection, which is a brainless solution but cumbersome), it's a fully self-contained, low maintenance unit.
As for the Civic hatchback. While I think the styling is out of this world and it has an even funkier interior than our Civic Coupe/Sedan, it's actually technologically inferior to our Civic. While our Civics have a multi-link double wishbone rear suspension, the Euro Civic has a torsion beam setup. The ride, as a result, is less sporty and much bumpier. Their Type-R doesn't even have an LSD compared to our Si, nor the Japanese Civic Type-R's higher output I4. But it does have a lot more utility and even the Honda Fit's magic seats- it's designed more for the British market than ours (and it's built in Swindon too).
AlexP 5:56PM (11/29/2007)
Oh, there's a diesel Cobalt and possibly Aveo coming to Canada next model year, this I know for sure. As for the US? I have no idea.
Ducky 1:14AM (11/30/2007)
AlexP, where did you get that information from? I haven't heard a blip on a diesel Cobalt coming. The European spec diesels in GM's stable currently do not meet emissions regulations over here, so I can't imagine, if they haven't had any official announcements (especially by this time of year), that any sort of small diesel would be coming from GM. Those Euro-spec diesels, btw, are inferior to Honda's 2.2 litre diesel, at least according to the British press. It doesn't seem to tie into GM's immediate plans at all either, especially with them pursuing the Volt so heavily. I don't see how GM could be creating a Tier 2 Bin 5 small diesel... especially after the comments posted with Bob Lutz's thoughts on Honda's diesel.
Hooper 4:44PM (11/29/2007)
Whoops, I meant that's not an apples-to-apples comparison, or that *is* an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Reply
wrussi 4:47PM (11/29/2007)
how did he manage to drive a euro spec in michigan?
Reply
Guenther 5:36PM (11/29/2007)
Same way every one else does- "M" plate.
Lutz does not like diesels, for whatever reason. HCCI is a cool technology, but at the same time, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket. Honda is using a catalyst of sorts that actually makes its own urea. Pretty slick, but it uses extra fuel. VW and Merc. will have T2B5 vehicles w/o urea. GM can ,too, if Bob wants it.
2Tall 4:52PM (11/29/2007)
I actually think the styling is quite ugly and will not age well with that Mercury lightbar look up front. The weird triangular/trapezoid angles remind me of the last style cougar and with America's issues with hatchbacks I don't believe this would sell. Now if you put the diesel in the US civics that would be a different story.
Reply
davet 4:54PM (11/29/2007)
"...it makes me wonder why Honda never decided to sell this car in the 'States"
Cool cars available there and not here -- never heard >that< before!
BTW, I think every modern diesel uses variable vane turbos these days.
Reply
Samantha 5:08PM (11/29/2007)
Just as soon as diesels come to save the day, the price of diesel will increase to re-enslave us. You really don't think we are ever going get cheap fuel again, do you? Naive.
Reply
itsmeee 5:11PM (11/29/2007)
My car gets between 22-34mpg depending on driving. Now that car if I am remembering 0-60 is just as fast as my car (a 200sx SE-R) but almost doubles its gas mileage! Even with the price of Diesel being almost $4 a gallon where I live (regular is $3.36) so i'd still be saving a fair chunk of change while having a car just as fast as mine. Also due to it being a diesel the engine should last much longer then mine will which means better resale value.
Reply
Tom 5:35PM (11/29/2007)
I'd love to see a diesel civic in the states. Although I do apriciate the practicality of a hatchback, personally I think the US market coupe is the best looking out of the US, Euro, and JDM models.
Reply
Tom 5:52PM (11/29/2007)
If you were paying attention you would see that diesel is already more expensive than regular gas. The point is diesel engines are far more fuel efficient. Of course there is also the stump pulling torque.
Reply
Tom 6:06PM (11/29/2007)
sorry, my last comment was supposed to be a reply to Samantha.
Reply
Cortez 6:11PM (11/29/2007)
I dont thing that you will get the EPA rating on your low quality diesel and petrol
Reply
Jared 12:45PM (11/30/2007)
Cortez:
You'll find that our diesel and gasoline are now the same quality as EU diesel and petrol, due to new low-sulfur regulations by the EPA. And don't make the mistake of looking at the US gasoline octane ratings and directly comparing it to the EU octane ratings, since the ratings shown on the pump in the US use a different method -- RON in the EU versus (RON + MON)/2 here in the states.