A recent JD Power finding that hybrid popularity is giving way to more interest in diesel powertrains may have some legs to it after all. Even though gas prices have been hovering above $3 for months, Toyota is still trimming the entry price of its 2008 Camry Hybrid by about $1,000. To help pay for the unexpected price drop, Toyota eliminated standard items like the JBL audio system, leather steering wheel and shift knob, Homelink, and electrochromic mirror with compass. $25,860 will now get you a hybrid powertrain plus steel wheels, and a single CD player, which aren't exactly luxury components. Unless the folks from Aichi, Japan have achieved manufacturing efficiencies from increased hybrid output, this could be bad news for Toyota and the many automakers on the precipice of introducing their own hybrid systems.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Avinash machado @ Jul 21st 2007 8:21AM
Perhaps that is why Honda is planning to introduce a Diesel Accord instead of the hybrid.
Devin @ Jul 21st 2007 11:14AM
Exactly. And don't forget that even GM is making a huge push in diesels in a year or two as well. Toyota might have found itself in a bit of a bind..
Castle @ Jul 21st 2007 11:31AM
they are just lowering the price premium between the gasoline model and the hybrid by removing unpackaging previous luxury options.
Also, both Honda and Toyota have diesel plans in their lineup. Toyota bought a stake in Isuzu (who previously helped GM design diesels) to speed up the development of their own diesel program.
Fact is, there isn't a singular solution to energy concerns. Its not a diesel OR hybrid situation, unlike what some "diesel thugs" would want you to thing.
Castle @ Jul 21st 2007 12:44PM
So an update:
turns out the $1,000 price drop is to keep the price the same to consumers as tax incentives are phased out, not "hybrids waning"
"Toyota Motor Corp., the world's largest seller of gasoline-electric autos, is lowering the base price of the Camry Hybrid sedan by $1,000 as U.S. tax incentives are phased out."
"``They're paying for that Camry Hybrid price cut with the increase on conventional Camrys,'' said George Peterson, president of AutoPacific Inc., an industry research company in Tustin, California. ``What they're doing is basically revenue- neutral.''"
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=ajJ0KGmC4wR4&refer=japan
Gerry @ Jul 21st 2007 9:16PM
Honda is only offering a diesel option for Americans, not converting. Honda is still aiming to offer a widespread gas-electric product line.
l.i.dave @ Jul 21st 2007 9:02AM
Gm of Ford "trim" prices and its the end of the world.
Toyota "trims" prices and its a genius business move.
What's that all about?
And by the way Toyota fell behind GM in global sales last quarter.
Barney @ Jul 21st 2007 9:00PM
You may want to look at the figures again. Toyota still leads in sales so far this "year". GM may have done better the last quarter but not enough to lead.
mike-1-2-7 @ Jul 21st 2007 9:11AM
Two Words: Diesel Hybrid
or
Three Words: Plugin Diesel Hybrid
Hybrids are nice in larger cars, but, a cheaper alternative is to Just Use a Smaller Engine?
Camry V6 : 22/31 6 spd trans
Camry I4 : 24/33 5 spd trans
Camry Hbrid: 40/38 CVT
Notice, that the 4 cyl's don't get the 6 speed, making the V6 mpg look "Not So Bad After All" ( Marketing ).
But, on the question of diesel vs. hybrid.
Diesel: simpler tech to get a big mpg boost,
but, that money goes to the Middle-East.
Hybrid: you don't spend the money on Gas,
but, you do spend it on a battery, that money goes to Japan, a good ally.
- Convertible to Plugin
- Solar Arrays are continuing to get Cheaper and More Efficient. At some point you will be able to power-up from your roof.
Bruno @ Jul 22nd 2007 9:57AM
Last chart I saw, we got just 11% of our oil (19% of imported oil) from Middle Eastern countries. Less that most think. 50% comes from western hemisphere nations like Canada.
Switching to diesels, other auto technologies, reducing use of oil for heating, power generation, increased oil prodution domestically, etc, could zip that right down to near zero.
Rene Curry @ Jul 21st 2007 9:27AM
Maybe the pricing change is a reflection that just being hybrid don't sell.
The Prius has the "green" unique look that separates it from the pack and allows premium pricing. When you drive a Prius it is perceived as a statement, not a smart financial decision.
Being just another car in the pack requires some price justification.
Dave @ Jul 21st 2007 9:33AM
Edmunds says that the MSRP of an automatic 4 cyl Camry is $19520.
$6340 buys a lot of gas, even at $3 a gallon.
mike-1-2-7 @ Jul 21st 2007 9:40AM
Yes, toyota built this hybrid, really, not to push mpg?!?
4cyl 2.4 liter: hp: 158 torque: 161
hybrid: hp: 187 torque; 199
Did toyota "tune" the hybrid to be the "hot" performer, rather then the MPG Monster?
Erik Ruggels @ Jul 21st 2007 11:38AM
@mike: no, i see combined averages between 36-38 mpg, constantly - so while it feels quicker then my passat TDI, it's real world mileage is spot on
@dave: what about customers like me who only entered the toyota dealership to look at the hybrid camry? People ask occasionally what the price difference is and i chuckle, never having an interest in the base or v6 model I don't care - I'd wager there are more green sorts of buyers wanting a car which comfortably transports four adults while providing a reduced carbon footprint and substantially better in town MPG for the sheer convenience of not filling up but once a month.
Dave @ Jul 21st 2007 11:41AM
@Erik
Don't get me wrong. I never said the market for the car was nonexistent.
Erik Ruggels @ Jul 21st 2007 12:18PM
No no, I got that, I'm just articulating there are some odd eco-nuts who want to reduce or offset their carbon footprints (huge movement everywhere else in the developed world but here) and are accounting for sales which wouldn't normally have been there for toyota. Had the hybrid camry not been on the market, I would have simply waited for the next iteration of the passat tdi... well, actually no, the emissions bar on the sticker, even with the new diesel tech, isn't something i'm happy accepting for greater economy.
I realize wholeheartedly that buyers like myself are in the minority, though my experiences with the hybrid camry caused me to rethink an Audi Q7 purchase, I'm currently waiting on an order for the next gen hybrid highlander (same reasons as the camry). Thus toyota's sold one car and will sell another to an ardent german car fan.
Paul Allen @ Jul 21st 2007 9:43AM
Hybrid buyers, are, duh, economy-minded, and many have no desire for an upscale audio system, etc. It's not a price drop, its adjusting the standard equipment to give buyers a choice. Upgraded audio is probably still available as an option or in a higher trim level on the Camry Hybrid.
The Accord "failed" for the same reason- it had a feature ---high performance, which resulted in a much-lower mileage than the Camry--- not valued by current Hybrid buyers. Plus, the ingenious Toyota Hybrid system is technically superior to Honda's.
I, too, look forward to the Accord diesel, which should have amazing economy, and will almost certainly beat the Camry in highway mpg.
Travis Rassat @ Jul 21st 2007 10:40AM
I think you're on to something, Paul - I know there has been a lot of talk about the entry price point of hybrids, and some people get the perception that the price differential of a hybrid vs a regular car of the same model is very high, but a lot of that has to do with the uplevel accesories included with the hybrids. Hopefully, making some of this stuff optional and lowering the entry price point will attract more buyers who are on the fence about the hybrid.
Joe @ Jul 21st 2007 9:52AM
What a shame.
LaughingTooHard @ Jul 21st 2007 10:32AM
With media doing the math for lazy US consumers, people are finally waking up to the fact that Hybrids, while better in some ways than ICE, only are not worth the extra money.
Many Prius buyers have admitted they were driven by smugness or irrational desire. The latter being the same emotional process which sells Hummers and former is what sells two seater convertibles. Nither decision is based on the finances or ROI.
$15K Fits, Versas and Scions are selling well for the obvious reason - they start at $15K despite their medicore MPG. $26K after a price cut is still way above the $20K average and out of the reach of most car shoppers.
If you only afford a small car, just remember: the driver always has a seat.
MrMorix @ Jul 21st 2007 10:43AM
I agree with you but who really wants to drive a Fit, Versa, or Scion? They are by far not attractive vehicles at all. Is it possible that manufacturers make small sedans or coupes that can mimic larger sedans. I think a B segment car like a Fit that mimics an Accord or Civic would be great. I personally think the Fit is too soft and feminine looking.