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Greenies war on fun: CO2 limits might kill Ferrari, Porsche
Are Ferraris and Porsches condemned to becoming track-day-only toys? Europe already appears well on its way to outlawing ultra-high performance vehicles. Can the US be far behind? That's the question Bloomberg is asking. The culprit in the attack on sports cars isn't necessarily their speed, but the fact that they produce too much carbon dioxide. But they do get criticized for their speed as well. One British member of the European Parliament, Chris Davies, is actually proposing a prohibition on any car with a top speed over 162 km/h (101 mph). That wouldn't leave much choice for buyers unless everybody started fitting governors.
The CO2 problem is the big one though. The European Union is planning to limit CO2 emissions in lieu of fuel-mileage standards. Carbon dioxide is considered one of the greenhouse gases responsible for global warming. While limiting CO2 emissions might be a laudable goal, the finger too often gets pointed at cars. Car & Driver's Csaba Csere is quoted in the article, talking about the fact that power plants and factories are where politicians should be focusing their efforts. "Automobiles always seem to be the focus, even though they only consume 15 percent or 20 percent of energy,'' he said.
While much of the article dwells on the anti-rich attitude that permeates these types of attacks, the writer brings up some interesting points. Some stuff seems purely intended to provoke reactions, and much of it feels like opinion over fact, but that's editorial content for you. Click over to read the whole thing.
Thanks for the tip, JayP!
[Source: Bloomberg]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Bob 8:28AM (7/12/2007)
Wouldn't be the first time a politician or two attempted to put their name up in lights by going after this target. And it won't be the first time they fail.
It also tends to shed light on the fact that the political types seem to have an acute inability to understand science or engineering. No big surprise there. CO2 limited doesn't need to mean slow. It just means it is time to loose a considerable amount of weight. If you want to go fast you will have to give up your 15 cup holders, autopilot steering system, quadruple zone climate control, refrigerated gloveboxes and a laundry list of other rather foolish gadgets.
Think Lotus Elise or early 70s 911. Light, simple and fast.
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Trace 8:51AM (7/12/2007)
Though I will proabably never be able to afford one of the uber-performance cars. Going after them is saying lets solve the worlds carbon problems by attacking .0000000001% of the emitters. Maybe in your world but I do not see many of these garage queens running around on a daily basis.
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Romeo 9:42AM (7/12/2007)
I couldn't agree more.
scappy 8:55AM (7/12/2007)
My problem with this is how many miles do these cars that would get shelved actually drive a year. I highly doubt someone and their enzo put 12k a year on their car, thus their net contribution to CO2 is minimal.
This falls into the same argument about getting rid of SUVs and trucks. It is not simply a function of what you drive but also how much you drive it.
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jamesc 9:03AM (7/12/2007)
Can't they make Ferrari's and Porsche's and etc's buyers also buy some kind of purifying machine to compensate? A kyoto for people with too much money and too many cars?
It's a patch, doesn't solve anything, but I'm just brainstorming here.
Maybe they should start taxing COWS for producing too much methane. They're up to something...
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david damn 9:06AM (7/12/2007)
I've been confused about this. Cars emit carbon monoxide, "CO". It's what kills a person when they lock themselves in the garage with the car running. Does it also emit CO2?
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Eric B 9:32AM (7/12/2007)
David, the catalysts in today's cars are so effective that nearly zero CO is emitted from the tailpipe. Nowadays, if someone tries to commit suicide by running their cars in their closed garage, they die from asphyxiation because CO2 has displaced all the oxygen in the air, not from carbon monoxide poisoning.
But even before high-efficiency catalysts, CO2 (and water vapor) was the main emission from tailpipes.
And yeah, stopping a few thousand Ferraris from running will save our supposedly scorching Earth... whatever.
Patrick Austin 9:31AM (7/12/2007)
Unlikely. Remember, Ferrari and Porsche have some of the strongest R&D in the industry. Historically, I think they've done better with tightening safety and emissions standards than almost anyone else. Adding catalytic converters did far less to hamper their performance than it did to the Americans, right? And the Porsche 924 and 944 were designed to take a 50mph head on collision back when it looked like the government was going to require THAT standard (IIRC, the Fiat X19 was the only other car that could do that). IMO the small car companies are way more nimble than GM or Ford.
Frankly, I'd expect Porsche to roll out some seriously awesome new technology in response to this. Charging $100K for a car means they can afford to put in technology that'd otherwise be cost prohibitive.
The market for extremely fast cars is very strong, and it's not going away. Car makers will _always_ find a way to give us what we want, regardless of how green they're forced to get.
Have faith in the market.
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Ben H. 4:21PM (7/12/2007)
I fully agree with this point. I have a feeling some legislators are completely misinformed when it comes to fast cars and emissions. They're less than likely to actually read exotic car brochures (where emissions info may be - i.e. Porsche Cayman's) by their negative nature - which usually gets them nowhere.
Ricardohead 9:32AM (7/12/2007)
Can't they do like Al Gore does and buy "carbon offsets" so they can pollute to their heart's content and still claim a false moral high-ground? Hell, if it's good enough for fat Al, it should be also be good enough for someone with a brain.
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Bart 9:38AM (7/12/2007)
This story is months old and nothing but rumors. Chris Davies just had a political agenda, and was shot down immediately.
For people reading this story and taking it seriously; "Not gonna happen."
I'm disappointed you did so little research before posting this. It'll get people riled up over nothing.
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Che 9:42AM (7/12/2007)
Perfect combustion takes gasoline (Carbon and Hydrogen) and combines it with oxygen to produce CO2 and H2O. The world isn't perfect so you also get some CO. CO is deadly; CO2 is the green house gas. A really well tuned car will produce very little CO and the catalytic converter is designed to take the remaining CO and turn it into CO2. Assuming that you dont want to die quickly from CO poisoning the ONLY way to reduce the CO2 is to reduce the amount of fuel burned. This is a stark contrast to the other pollutants that come from cars which can be reduced by changing the combustion ratio or by adding / subtracting chemicals to the fuel or filtering the exhaust (diesel).
There is NO technology to reduce the CO2 output. The only way is to reduce the amount of fuel burned, or start burning hydrogen.
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Snark 9:42AM (7/12/2007)
These jokers need to read a bit of Amory Lovins' work and start addressing REAL CO2 emitters, rather than lining up and knocking down the little ones for cheap political gain.
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Che 9:51AM (7/12/2007)
Wasn't Porsche one of the last auto makers to switch to water cooled engines, which have much higher emissions standards by tightly regulating combustion temperatures.
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rvr 9:46AM (7/12/2007)
@david damn: exhaust apparently contains CO and CO2 (http://www.nutramed.com/environment/carsepa.htm)
as for such laws limiting these performance cars, i have to say it's hard to get too indignant about it being difficult for the ultra-rich to buy a super car. 99.9% of the population of the earth isn't going to care.
and the point is not to get these cars off the road. it seems the point is to get cars in general to pollute less. the high end sports car may be a casualty of that effort. but frankly it's like complaining that child labor laws in africa are going to make diamonds too expensive. um, excuse me, but forest and trees and all that.
ultimately, i think people will still want to spend excessive amounts of money to go really fast. luxury/performance companies will have to innovate to produce powerful cars that are much greener, and with all the money to be made, i have no doubt they will.
i know there are a lot of gearheads that love the internal combustion engine and its mystique and aura, and i'm sure it will survive in one form or another, but the sooner it dies as our primary means of transport, the better (particularly the gasoline variety--bring on the clean diesel!).
as for this type of regulation being aimed at the wrong thing, where the author said this, "they only consume 15 percent or 20 percent of energy." hello?! only 15 to 20 percent? being able to limit what is in effect one source that makes up 15 to 20 percent is HUGE. i doubt there are any other sources that make up that much of total CO2 output. sure, you can say factories and power plants, but that's actually a lot more complex, from the little i know. plus, i'm sure there's the political calculus in terms of which industry is going to be least able to fight such legislation. but minimizing it as only 15 or 20 percent is crazy talk.
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Bart 9:58AM (7/12/2007)
Oh and when are people going to start realising that whether we burn through the fossil fuel reserves in 50 or 200 years, we still emit the same amount of polution.
The way I see it, we need to profit from our reserves while we can, and switch to alternatives as we run out. Rather than in 200 years still have to contend with fossil fuels.
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Atomicbri 10:17AM (7/12/2007)
Ok when I read articles like this it just fires me up! Porsche and Ferrari do not sell nearly enough cars to think their CO2 emmissions will screw up the environment. But why doesn't Europe, the US, etc look into these plants that cause HUGE pollution and CO2 outputs! I mean these factory dump TONS of crap into the air and into the water supplies daily, yet the continue... hypocrisy at its finest!
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nlh 11:43AM (7/12/2007)
I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche already has lower emissions than most other cars. Germany is already one of the greenest countries, has been for years. If I am not mistaken, hasn't Porsche had not just one, but several catalytic converters in each of their engines (I heard six at one time but that may just be hearsay)?
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FLR 10:33AM (7/12/2007)
Does anybody know what car that is behind and right of the Ferrari? It looks like it may be a Callaway Corvette.
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Frank Filipponio 11:01AM (7/12/2007)
It is, in fact, the Callaway C16. Reeves brings it to our weekly car meet at Ford's Premier Automotive Group HQ in Irvine, CA. Last week he even brought the convertible.