Carbon fiber... don't believe the hype?
In a new entry over at TheTruthAboutCars.com, writer Johnny Lieberman trips the rant fantastic, lambasting carbon fiber-- material of choice for racer and poseur alike. So, what does the writer have against the sought-after weave? Well, it's impact properties, for one (Lieb' recons its accident constitution is a one-and-done proposition), and its indulgent cost for another.
Granted, Lieberman doesn't spill his vitriol on the carbon fiber's motorsports applications, he mainly calls to task the trend where the shiny plaits (or knockoffs thereof) are employed in everything from dashboard appliqués to parking brake handles, the vast majority of which offer few tangible benefits in production cars beyond aesthetics.
What do you think... is carbon fiber over-hyped, or does it remain a desirable material?
[Source: TheTruthAboutCars.com]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
WillDaThrill 2:13PM (6/11/2006)
I agree, it's mostly hype. Racers use it for obvious reasons; wieght reduction. It's amazing how ricers think their car is so much lighter and/or faster by putting a carbon fiber hood on their car. It doesn't help much when the other 90% of the car is steel and aluminum. Then to, it is aesthedically pleasing to look at.
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Jay 2:37PM (6/11/2006)
If you get a big enough scratch in carbon fiber you have to start worrying about structural rigidity. It cant be matched for strength (in the direction for which it was laid out) and light-weight.
i.e. if you bail on a carbon fiber bike frame, it wont dent, it will snap after a certain stress point is reached.
As for aesthetics. no different from the fake wood and metal we put in cars.
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AutoFan 2:42PM (6/11/2006)
It's just as useful for trim as chrome and brushed aluminum. If you like it, fine. If you don't, then don't get it and STFU.
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Matthew 2:48PM (6/11/2006)
I think he makes a pretty straightforward and logical argument. CF is not the end-all be-all of composite materials. It does have it's weaknesses.
As for an internal material, while he might not like the look inside of his car, some people prefer it over brushed aluminum or wood trim. It's really the owners choice on what material he/she should go with, as internal materials are only for show.
In the end, I think this is just one guy voicing his opinion. In any situation where CF is an option for parts, the chooser must weigh all the factors into the decision. While he makes some good points, this shouldn't detour people from using CF when applicable.
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Chris 2:49PM (6/11/2006)
TTAC sucks. Now they're gonna charge people $50 for their circa 1999 Edmunds.com content.
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Combatc87 2:50PM (6/11/2006)
I don't mind CF when it replaces something, i.e. whole interior panels or body panels. But if you have a "stick on" CF dash kit that doesn't even fully cover the dash, that's kinda tacky (I know, I've got one and it's coming off soon).
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risingsun 2:52PM (6/11/2006)
As dash trim it's stupid. Stick with the fake metal. The problem is most of the CF used on a dash as OEM trim simply LOOKS like the fake CF it is. It's not like it's saving weight sitting there on the dash.
But $500 or more for a carbon fiber hood is outrageous, just to save 10 to 20 pounds. Take out your floor mats and your spare.
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.T 3:26PM (6/11/2006)
So switching from a 40 or 50 pound steel hood to a 10 to 15 pound CF one yields no benefits, eh? And I suppose that going from a 20 pound steel driveshaft to a 6 pound CF one yields no benefits, either.
Is it expensive? Of course it is. Exotic materials by definition are. You have to pay to play.
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Jimbo 3:31PM (6/11/2006)
CF exotic material? Not anymore. Anyone and everyone is making parts out of CF.
Try Inconel. That's more exotic than CF.
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verdegrrl 3:43PM (6/11/2006)
As an actual structural element or something to help lighten a car, I think CF is just fine.
As a deign element, well, it needs to fit the whole image of the car, and not just look slapped on. Then it's like fake metal (plastic) dash trim.
Why not make an interior that doesn't need a bunch of tacked on stuff to make it look special? Then if you use different materials that are in character with the car, it will just enhance the effect. Too many car designers depend on a slathering of fake something to bring a sense of style and interest to an interior and take your eye off the cost cutting aspects of cheap plastic, mold lines, poorly matching seams, etc. That's a total cop out in my book. If they can't do anything interesting, just give me a precision designed, servicable interior rendered in better quality materials than might have otherwise been used.
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Sanfam 3:43PM (6/11/2006)
This article seems to completely ignore the fact that carbon fiber components often added as aftermarket pers have other major design flaws.
Primarily, CF hoods. In the event of a crash, a carbon fiber hood is quite likely to shear off any bolt-down connections to the hinges or hood latches and be pushed towards the cabin due to its far higher rigidity and inability to flex. Shattering is certainly one possibility and could be the better option for such a component, but imagine what would happen if said aftermarket hood was hit at the right angle and removed from the hinges, then pushed through the windshield. I'm not saying anything about decapitation, but passenger injuries are likely.
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PJ 3:46PM (6/11/2006)
If you're a hard-core autocrosser or spend lots of time at competitive track days, the 30-40 lbs you'll save with a CF hood could well be worth the cost. Especially since that's weight over (and ahead of) the front axle. Taking out the spare and floormats doesn't do as much to aid weight distribution, since most cars are nose-heavy.
That said, for people who mostly do brisk street driving (the vast majority), I can't imagine CF parts are worth the cost. Someone with highly-attuned senses might feel the difference. To each his own.
On a less functional note, I do think CF hoods and such are neat-looking, the way the weave catches the sunlight. But I cringe every time I see a Civic with its hood spray-painted primer black as a low-budge alternative.
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dfd 3:58PM (6/11/2006)
Or better yet, get on a diet and shed that 30-40 pounds off your waistline.
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naggs 4:13PM (6/11/2006)
most fiberglass hoods weigh less for less money than cf hoods but then you dont get the bling. for the most part carbon fiber is usefull in supercars, racing and dogleting out your civic. the technonlogy isnt quite there for carbon fiber to become a major building material in affordable cars. by the time the problems are worked out, there will probably be something else to comealong that costs less.
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DarkSol 4:20PM (6/11/2006)
Yo Jimbo,
Inconel might be more exotic than CF, but its denser and therefore heavier than CF and unuseful in automotive applications. You might as well have said DU (depleted uranium) if you want really exotic.
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doglet 4:23PM (6/11/2006)
the article is not really based on fact. he goes on about how carbon fiber monocoques are more dangerous than an equlivant unibody. he says that the rock hard stuff will crack skulls and in multiple contact accidents kill everyone. he is not an engineer and he doesnt know anything about carbon fiber except that he doesnt like it and its hard. if engineers had access to carbon fiber to design affordable cars they would be safer, faster and more efficient. that is a fact. engineers know the stregnths and weaknesses of all their building materials and apply them where they can be used best. this article is a waste of space.
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JSFORBES 6:24PM (6/11/2006)
I don't care about the article, I just want a carbon fiber toilet.
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Robert 6:32PM (6/11/2006)
I poop on carbon fiber!
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kjmiller 7:10PM (6/11/2006)
I just hate anything fake. I despise fake wood, aluminum, CF, ... I think carbon fibre looks pretty cool in certain applications.
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Gunnar 9:20PM (6/11/2006)
One thing about having CF body parts is that it doesn't require painting like other materials. It really isn't all about the weight saving. Like another person said, just take out some stuff from the car for that. It just happens that aftermarket body parts makers are using CF as well as other stuff, but CF has more benefits to buyers.....like I mentioned, not having to paint it, shipping is cheaper because it is lighter and I am sure there are other benefits as well.
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