In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor James Riswick. They chat about slumming it in the Aston Martin DBX, the brand's first SUV that they didn't have terribly high expectations for yet utterly blew them away. Riswick in particular notes it's one of the best cars he's ever drive, describing it as a family GT car. They then switch to a very different family vehicle: the 2022 Kia Carnival, and the unique second-row seating arrangement we've dubbed the "Captain Kirk chair." Greg has also been driving the Chevrolet Tahoe Premier.


They also chat about two of Riswick's recent features: the 20 craziest car redesigns of the past 20 years and the best cars for snow.

Transcript

[MUSIC PLAYING]

GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to "The Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me today is senior editor for all things West Coast, James Riswick and Features. What is up, man?

JAMES RISWICK: Oh, just covering the West Coast as best I can from Alaska to I guess, Tierra Del Fuego. We recently expanded to South America so--

GREG MIGLIORE: Minding the Pacific fleet. All right, that sounds good. That sounds good. We're actually having some a little bit Oregonian-like weather here. It's been kind of a little warm. We had a little bit of rain. The snow's melting a bit. But it is going to be a low of 1 degree Fahrenheit on Saturday. So we had like maybe 36 hours of a cold snap, which is actually a pretty good beer. I think that's a Sam Adams beer. Maybe take a few drinks over this time of year.

But we have a great show for you today. We're to talk about the Aston Martin DBX, a pretty important crossover for Aston Martin. James has driven it most recently. I'll be interested to hear what he thinks. I drove it a while back. But be fun to get more into that because it's a hugely important car for Aston Martin. We'll talk about the Kia Carnival. I am in it right now. James has an interesting piece on our site involving the Captain Kirk chairs. So that's a driveway test right there.

And I've been enjoying minivan life this week. So we'll get more into that. The opposite of a minivan is the Chevy Tahoe. It does many of the same things. It's just much larger and much troop transporter-like an appearance. And it's aimed at perhaps a similar kind of buyer, but different as far as execution. Let's put it that way.

We'll get into some other interesting features we ran through this way, 20 craziest car designs, redesigns of the last 20 years. The XJ is one that really caught my eye. I guess we'll have a little bit of a British theme to this show. And then best new cars for snow or just best cars for snow. I guess they don't have to be brand new. So Aston Martin DBX. It's a pretty big deal cross over for Aston Martin. When this fig landed in your driveway or your street, what was your initial impression?

JAMES RISWICK: OK, interesting. So interesting question for that. Honestly, I was fully expecting a sort of half-assed cynical brand exercise here. You know, Aston Martins' after, you know, the middle of the thousands kind of got stale and you really started to notice like all the bits and pieces that probably didn't deserve to be in a car that was like $200,000.

And it just kind of felt like really old Aston Martin in that same respect. And honestly like the Bentaygas of the world, and like the Urus, not appealing. So I was not very-- although it's an exciting car to get in driveway and I don't get a lot here in the Pacific Northwest fleet, I wasn't exactly gaga for it.

So I immediately got it, I did what you normally would do when handed a $222,000 Aston Martin sport SUV with a 542 horsepower twin-turbo V8 from Mercedes AMG. I put my rear-facing child seat in the back to see how much space there was. And there was a shocking amount of space. This thing has this actually has a longer wheelbase than the Bentayga and the Urus, which shared their wheelbase I think and platform with an Audi Q7. At the same time it's shorter than those in overall size. So it actually grants it a ton of interior space.

And then I did my luggage test because of course, that's what you do after the child test. And there's a lot of actually user-friendly cargo space in the back. And you look around and the interior isn't just being carried by the leather that's quite nice. It's always been an Aston Martin thing. But all the bits and pieces are actually really impressive largely because a lot of the bits and pieces come from Mercedes Benz, which is better than like Miata door handles and like a Volvo S40 radio that Aston Martin has used in the past.

So if you're going to borrow bits and pieces for an interior, which can kind of make or break a car making it feel premium, its underappreciated than Mercedes. Good people to do it to boost from. So already, kind of my fears about the half-assery were being reduced, and the fact that wait a second, this actually is really useful. It's OK. Then I drove it. And I got to tell you, I think this is one of the best cars I've ever driven. Just--

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow! OK.

JAMES RISWICK: I mean-- and it all comes down to the fact that, wait, OK, it's well it's one thing to be amused and have fun driving an Aston Martin. No kidding, you'd hope that it at least gets that bar. But when it's so well rounded as it is, like this is actually functional and it's well made, and now, it actually meets that bar of being like great to drive.

And there's a lot of serious engineering in this car. It has an air suspension, electronic air suspension. It is height-adjustable to five heights, which I guess it can go off-road as a result because it does go pretty high off the ground. But then it also lowers when you put it into sport mode. It has an electronic anti-roll control system for all four corners, which is some serious tech. I mean, this is kind of what's on the Rivian I believe that everybody is so impressed with. I could be wrong about that. But at least in theory it does the same thing.

So because of this, air suspension, the anti-roll control, it delivers astonishing ride comfort. These have just gigantic wheels on them, and yet the ride is just sensational. At the same time, you put it into sport and body roll is reduced to what you would get in a DB11. And I can confirm that. Now, this car was riding on winter tires, which normally, I would applaud because a lot of cars show up here and there on summers and they get parked for a week.

so grip was not great. I had a couple of clenching moments on damp roads and a hairpin, kind of backed off. But that said, I mean, there's a lot-- it's a serious performance vehicle it's quite clearly one of the sportiest, greatest SUVs to drive. And yet in terms of just a grand tourer, which is what Aston Martin is all about, this is one of the great GT car manufacturers of all time, that's what this is. This is a family GT car. It is phenomenal.

I just started off being kind of like meh coming in to being impressed by its packaging to like falling deeply in love with it. I love this car so much. It costs $222,000, and it's like, you know, two really excellent cars for the price of two really excellent cars. So I was kind of-- I came back from my four plus hour drive yesterday just kind of in love with the thing. It's like the ultimate Volkswagen GTI. It's the only car you need because it does everything.

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow.

JAMES RISWICK: Fantastic.

GREG MIGLIORE: High praise there. I mean, James at times you've known to take a rather cynical approach to some of the cars, which is a good thing. You want to be a healthy skeptic, a critic of course. You know, I'm a little surprised you were blown away this much by the Aston Martin DBX. I mean, to be clear, I really liked it. I really enjoyed it. You know, it's interesting you talk about those Volvo door handles to really take a step back.

Because being sold by Ford and getting out of the Premier Automotive Group been like the greatest new lease on life for Aston Martin. I mean, to me, the vehicles have gone up exponentially. They're actually getting some form of investment, and they're doing like partnerships with like Mercedes, Mercedes AMG. I mean, it's helped immensely because they are essentially a standalone company at this point.

So it's interesting too that I put a car seat in mind the day it arrived. Had to go drop the kid off somewhere. So I guess if you're listening to this podcast and you're looking for, you know, we had Martinis at sunset in some Tuscan countryside, which is what I did with the Aston Martin DB11 six years ago, another lifetime ago on a press trip after the drive, it's not quite the vibe. That's also not exactly the mission for this vehicle. But it can be, I think. I mean, it's a lot of fun to drive. Steering was great.

JAMES RISWICK: Yes. Yes.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's really dialed in.

JAMES RISWICK: Yes, steering is phenomenal. I mean, you can just feel so--

GREG MIGLIORE: That's one of my favorite parts of it.

JAMES RISWICK: Oh. It's like this side of Porsche, I can't think of anything better. And it's like you utterly feel if all the nuances, the subtle little dips and crevices of the road, but then like the effort-- that with the effort that's kind of like very linear. And it's like moving it through like warm butter. It's just beautiful with all this feel in the world. So very good.

I mean, you know, ultimately, it's like extremely expensive car is extremely good. So you know.

[LAUGHING]

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JAMES RISWICK: But you know up until-- but some of Aston's like, Yeah, they were extremely expensive, but they were like would you really pick one? Like would you really pick one over a 911?

I mean you'd have to like-- you're buying it for the beauty. You're buying for the badge. But like this is serious-- I mean you can buy it like a Porsche Cayennes, the turbo, this, this, and that-- the whole sentence on the back.

You know they're this expensive. I'd rather have this. Absolutely. And I lo-- Porsches are fantastic, but this is such a complete effort. I'm really, really impressed by it.

And I think it's classy too. Like it's pretty. But I mean, I had the gray with a black interior, which is a little too [INAUDIBLE]. But I mean it's classy. It's a classy car. It doesn't shout like-- if you drive a [INAUDIBLE], my goodness, I mean that you might as well just have like a big flags on the car and like a loud speaker blowing up like saying, look at me. Look at me. Look at me.

This is not that. It's pretty, and it stands out, because it's pretty and it's an Aston Martin. But it's not that showy. And it's yeah, really nice car.

GREG MIGLIORE: I actually was impressed with like, you know, from the-- yeah, I mean, it's a beautiful vehicle stem to stern. But the back end is actually very well conceived. It's handsome. You know from the lights to that kind of like almost duck tail in the back, it's very good looking. And to me, that almost is like an example of how well thought out the DBX is.

They weren't just like hey, we've got to make a crossover. Let's slap a badge on it. We'll drop in this big engine and cross our fingers and hope for the best.

To me, it really is if you're an Aston Martin buyer, and you're thinking, I need a crossover. There's Cayenne turbos and other things that you mentioned earlier. This could be my car, and maybe this is my only car. You know it definitely delivers in that sense.

I had a great time driving it too. This is literally one of the highlights of my late winter, early spring when I drove this-- you know, this was last year. Now but every bit as memorable in some ways as that DB11 drive I did in the foothills of Tuscany half a lifetime ago.

And I don't even mean that sarcastically or facetiously. It's like, you know, when you peel away some of the extra goodies of a press trip, and you're just thinking about the driving dynamics of the vehicle, the DBX really delivers. And you know it was a lot of fun. The interior was gorgeous.

I actually to add this sort of like kind of semi lame things it sounds like we both did in these things, I shot a video for HR in the DBX's interior. They asked me to do something for I think it was take your kid to work day or something. And they give you all these like things you can do like cards, whatever, however.

And I was like well I feel like I'm the only people manager at this company that's got an Aston Martin in his driveway. Let's go see if we can shoot a video off my phone in this thing.

And I got a pretty good reaction I must say. I mean, that's one of those things where it's almost it's very enjoyable when somebody is like so-- could you explain your job again? Wait a minute. What is that? So-- but it does have that presence. It can be jaw dropping you know.

I had a kind of a creamy white one that was beautiful, beautiful car, so you went for a four-hour drive. What else have you done with it?

JAMES RISWICK: Well, that-- we only had it-- it's a shorter-- it's a shorter [INAUDIBLE]

Well. No. I did go out of the way. I said like we're doing we're doing pickup tonight. We're getting takeout, so I drove. One of the normal to get takeout and drove the family around a bit. But you can only go so far on an afternoon before hitting traffic. But the thing is--

GREG MIGLIORE: You got take out in like San Francisco.

JAMES RISWICK: The one downside besides the kind of crap cup holders is fuel economy. I was getting like 15 [INAUDIBLE]

GREG MIGLIORE: Well yeah.

JAMES RISWICK: You know. And so as a daily driver, even if I have all of the money, I would not feel great about driving this thing every day. But you know, if I also had all the money, I'd buy name electric car. And then I would have something to go on long drives and take like awesome-- and would like a Grand Touring kind of coupe beautiful car. And this is both of those things.

So like I don't think-- yeah, you'll need to have all of the money, but there's actually a perfectly [INAUDIBLE] use case here for this car as long as you have all the money. And the thing with Grand Touring is like, Yes, I would love a 2007 Aston Martin DBS, and I would like to take it with my wife on lovely journeys here and there. And they're just lovely.

But we have the kid now and can't really put him in the backseat of like a Grand Touring coupe. Kind of difficult. So this is just kind of dealing with the reality of that. So it's pretty great. Yeah. Yeah. It's only so much

GREG MIGLIORE: I wish I could go--

JAMES RISWICK: I could keep going really.

GREG MIGLIORE: I think another enjoyable part of my stint is I also went and got take out somewhere not all that close. And I actually preordered it at the time. I think this is long enough ago that I think restaurants were partially closed in Michigan. I don't remember all the specifics. But you had the order ahead of time to make sure you got your food.

And then they're like, OK, what car will you be arriving in? And I'm-- an Aston Martin DBX. And I remember the guy was like, are you sure you're going to be eating pizza? Like shouldn't you maybe aim higher tonight?

So I was like well you know, pizza's good. You got to eat right man. I mean, I don't know, but--

JAMES RISWICK: I'm a simple person. I just like the simple things, but I like good cars.

GREG MIGLIORE: Exactly. Yeah. Cool. Well I mean, I think we've hit this pretty hard. I mean, any final thoughts on this. Any things you didn't like? I mean this is a tough segment. You got the Lambo. You got the [INAUDIBLE].

You know you can make a Cayenne as nice as you want it to be. This is a little bit cheaper than the Rolls-Royce, which is a funny sentence to say. Most things are.

But I mean, to me, this is probably one of the best all-around-- I'll use a cliché-- athletes in the class. It's like, it does a lot of things well. Some of the other ones are definitely more in your face. I also found that I just kind of liked it more than, like, the Bentayga. So you know, that's a qualitative approach.

JAMES RISWICK: This thing could be a Kia, and I'd love it just as much. I don't-- it's that good. It really is. Oh, I meant to say that what you were talking about, in terms of how good it looks, and the rear end looking particularly good, the thing-- one of the reasons why I think it looks so good and better than others is because of its unique platform. It has a unique platform. And one of the ways that you can really make an SUV look nicer, or anything, really, is, make it longer and have a really long wheelbase.

So the thing that makes it so darn useful inside is probably the result of them making-- of them prioritizing making it look good. And I think it's kind of like a happy-- there are other instances of this in the automotive industry, where an effort to actually make it look pretty ended up making it-- the Jaguar F-Pace is a similar situation, where they made it-- they wanted to make the proportions right. And as a result, they made it longer. And that made it more practical. So I think that's what we're looking at. That's one of the reasons here.

Also, because it's a bespoke, it's a unique platform to Aston Martin. It's not like Bentley, that was given an existing VW group, Audi A7 platform and say, here. Make it work. That's probably a big reason why that thing kind of looks awkward. And there are various examples of this out there. So just wanted to touch on that. And then we can [INAUDIBLE] so we can move on.

GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good. I will put a bow on it by saying, I think the F-Pace is a very handsome Jaguar, as far as crossovers go. Beautiful crossover. You were talking about Kia's, though.

JAMES RISWICK: Mm-hmm.

GREG MIGLIORE: We've both spent some time in the Carnival recently. I literally just got out of one a couple hours ago. And this is actually my first time behind the wheel of the new Carnival. It's a pretty important vehicle for Kia, you know? They've made a very credible new generation of minivan for them. I mean, are we still calling these things minivans? Are they multipurpose vehicles?

JAMES RISWICK: Yes. Yes, we are.

GREG MIGLIORE: You know, there you go.

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah, Kia MPV. You know what Europeans call minivans?

GREG MIGLIORE: MPV.

JAMES RISWICK: MPVs. Yeah, OK.

GREG MIGLIORE: There you go.

JAMES RISWICK: Like, we're not going to--

GREG MIGLIORE: There you go.

JAMES RISWICK: --call it an elevator anymore. No, no, no. That's not cool. We're going to call them lifts.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's a lift, right?

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah, [INAUDIBLE].

GREG MIGLIORE: There you go. When I think of MPVs, I think of, like, those--

JAMES RISWICK: The Mazda?

GREG MIGLIORE: --military vehicle landing crafts. I don't know. I like it, though. I mean, it's interesting. I haven't fully digested everything. You know, I've been-- a lot of times, with the cars we test and review and try to form a holistic opinion on, you don't always do the thing that maybe you really need to do to push that car where it goes. You should try to. You always should try to. But sometimes it doesn't necessarily happen.

This week, I've been driving my son to and from preschool. That's exactly what you should be doing in a minivan. I think tonight, we're going to go pick up a bike. So I believe that is another good purpose for it. Let me put it that way. You know, it's-- I have the EX trim, so I believe that's-- it is what it is. But I don't know. I mean, I've generally liked it.

JAMES RISWICK: That's noteworthy, though. So you had the EX, and I had the SX. And this is noteworthy, because usually, Kia's show up with all of the equipment, the fanciest, highest trim level. And you always have to have, in the back of your-- which makes them, like, at their best foot forward, really nice. And you get a lot of people saying, oh, wow, it's a Kia. It's amazing. Like, this is so nice. Bravo. Yeah, but what is the tiny percentage of people who are actually going to buy these?

And in the back of our minds, we've always been like, OK, but what's the EX like? With all the bells and whistles, let's not be too, like, singing their praises, 'cause we don't know what-- it makes it seem like they're hiding something, frankly, even though I don't think they are. It just kind of makes it seem like that. So it's nice that we get, like, the "less than top of the line" version. So the one I had, like, didn't have the heated steering wheel and didn't have the all-digital instruments. And it was still really nice inside, still had the multi-tone leather. Mine was a higher trim level than even you had. Did you have seven or eight passenger?

GREG MIGLIORE: Mine is-- let me count-- eight.

JAMES RISWICK: Oh, so you had the middle seat. So you have the Captain--

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JAMES RISWICK: --Kirk chair, too.

GREG MIGLIORE: I did. I did.

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah, so let me explain that. So here's another thing.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I was going to say.

JAMES RISWICK: Right, so here's another example of this. So the SX Prestige, the one that everyone drove, has these VIP lounge seats, which are ones that go back really far. And they have these La-Z-Boy recliners on them, and they move laterally in the van as well. And everybody, you know, rightly touted them as being impressive. Great, except they're exclusive to the SX Prestige. Again, like, the tiny percentage, one that not that many people are going to buy. So what does the other ones have?

Well, the answer is, either you have the same, like, captain's chairs that don't do any of that [INAUDIBLE] or with the seven-passenger one, or you have what we have, which is the eight-passenger. And so it has a middle seat, like a lot of the eight-- well, you have to have a middle seat for eight passengers. But like, the cases with all these minivans, the second-row format is different.

So with the Pacifica and the Sienna, the eight-passenger seat is a pretty jump-seaty thing. It's pretty narrow and small to make it easily lifted out. So you could put a child seat on there, but you probably really wouldn't want to sit on it that much. This one's a step up from that. It's flatter, a little harder than the outboard seats, kind of like the Honda Odyssey's. But this one slides to a hilarious degree. You can slide it all the way forward so that you can more easily deal with your child in the forward-facing seat, sitting safely in the middle of the van, which is nice. You can, you know, wipe noses from the front seat.

Another nice thing about that is, if you have them rear-facing, the people in the outboard seats can more easily tend to a baby facing rearward. That's nice. Also, while you can also-- by having the seat move backwards and forwards, it's easier to put three car seats across. That's-- people buy unique, thin car seats for that capability, 'cause it's very difficult to fit these, you know, imperial thrones that we all have to carry around-- three of them across in a car, or just provide enough room for grandma to also sit back there.

So this thing-- not only does it go forward, it goes beyond. It slides all the way to the third row, which, you know, provides that flexibility. Or you could lower the third row, and it goes, like, all the way back to where the third row folds into the floor, providing this kind of weird what I call the Captain Kirk chair, where you're sitting in a middle seat surrounded by nothing with the two outboard captain's chairs forward of you, and then forward, and then the front row in front of you.

It's like this bizarre captain's chair-- like, literal captain's chair-- in the middle of the vehicle. It's very weird to sit back there. But it does provide this unusual degree of flexibility that could be helpful, 'cause you could have five people onboard, but they're not all going to be, like, smushed in. And you're going to end up with more remaining cargo room than if you just-- you know, you had a seven-passenger one, and you just raised, like, the 40 portion in the third row.

So all of these minivans have different second rows. I don't think any of them is better than the other. I think they could more-- some will be better for you than others. And I think that's ultimately a great thing. But it does mean that, you know, you should know what your options are and to really crawl around and check these things out at a dealer.

GREG MIGLIORE: Generally, I think the Carnival-- and I give them credit, because they-- you know, at times, you think sometimes Kia and Hyundai will just chase value, like, to the end of the day. And it feels like even in this more basic EX trim, you get a lot of stuff, you know? I don't-- like, you didn't have heated steering wheel. I don't have satellite radio. So we're really roughing it here.

JAMES RISWICK: Oh, man.

GREG MIGLIORE: Let me put it that way.

JAMES RISWICK: Go back to the DBX.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, exactly.

JAMES RISWICK: [LAUGHS]

GREG MIGLIORE: But got to-- you know, you got to have standards, right, man? I mean--

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: But yeah, I mean, it's definitely-- the thing about minivans is, you got to love putting car seats in them and being able to literally just push a button, the door opens, and there's your kid. It's, you know, super easy parenting. Let me put it that way.

The other challenge I think you face, too, is, like, how you're going to lay things out inside. And this one is-- there's a lot of room in there-- let me put it that way-- as you would expect. You know, I would also argue, too, that the Carnival is maybe the style play. I don't know if I'm going too far off field out there, but I think it's very distinctive in that segment, more so than the Odyssey, the Sienna--

JAMES RISWICK: [INAUDIBLE]

GREG MIGLIORE: --although the Sienna-- what's that?

JAMES RISWICK: The Odyssey is like-- it's a stroller. It is utterly devoid of character and joy. It is just like-- actually, my stroller is a far better, more interesting piece of design than the Honda Odyssey. Like, I take that back stroller that's sitting behind me.

GREG MIGLIORE: Mm. What kind--

JAMES RISWICK: The--

GREG MIGLIORE: --of stroller is it?

JAMES RISWICK: Oh, it's a Thule Spring. It's a great--

GREG MIGLIORE: OK.

JAMES RISWICK: It's a pretty thing.

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow.

JAMES RISWICK: [LAUGHS]

GREG MIGLIORE: See, that's why you register, right?

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah. So with all those minivans-- what was I going to say? Oh, thing with the minivan segment is that they all are very different. But the thing that really stands out for one of them is fuel economy. And that's ultimately kind of what hurts the Carnival, for me, because although--

You know, if you were to ask me, outside of fuel economy, which one would I choose and recommend, I might recommend the Carnival. It looks really good, and I really like the functionality of the interior. And the interior also looks really nice. I mean, it doesn't scream, I am a minivan. You are a chauffeur. You don't matter-- like the Honda Odyssey does. It is kind of cool. It kind of helps you forget that you're in a minivan. The Sedona-- the old Sedona did that, too, actually.

But the Sienna gets-- you know, I was getting, like, 38 miles per gallon out of the Sienna. And that was making no attempt to drive economically, making no-- like, it was filled with stuff and all of the people and the dogs. And we get 37 miles per gallon. And you're going to get 22, 23 in the Sedona and in the Pacifica V6 and in the Odyssey. And that is a subst-- that is an enormous difference. It is huge. You're going to be spending multiple hundreds of dollars every year more on gas to fill up a Carnival compared to a Sienna. And do I like the Carnival more than that? No, not even close. So the Sienna has such an ace up its sleeve in that regard.

The Pacifica Hybrid, too, of course, has-- it's a plug-in hybrid. And that's better in that regard, too. But with that, there's the-- well, do you pay enough income tax to get a 7,500 tax rebate back, or can you wait around? If you buy it in May, you're going to be waiting a long time to see that $7,500 that came off the price tag. So there's that, too.

So as much as I love the Carnival, you know, that fuel economy-- like, we're not just talking about, like, 4. We're talking about 14 miles per gallon. That's insane. So ultimately, that is such a huge determining factor for me, because it's a minivan, you know? Like, the power in the Sienna is fine, and fine is all you need.

GREG MIGLIORE: Exactly. I mean, I think when you're looking at-- you know, if you're at the life stage where you're probably going to buy a minivan, even if you're, like, investing in your minivan and getting all the bells and whistles, you still have, obviously, expenses-- children, dogs. You know, that's the stage of life where you're not looking to maybe drop extra money on your vehicle, or at least not this vehicle. Maybe the family hauler is something that's a little more, you know, everyday use, and you have, like, a sports car or something.

So it's interesting when I look at the field. I feel like I maybe would drop this somewhere at, like, third place, somewhere in there. I tend to agree with you that the Sienna Hybrid at 37-- it's really tough to beat that. And it's a really good product, stem to stern. I tend to like the Pacifica and the Pacifica Hybrid in second place. I think the Carnival looks more like-- you know, it stands out more. But I tend to like the looks of the Pacifica a little more. I think it's more of a classic look, inside and out. And I also think it drives a little bit better. It's a little more refined, especially with the hybrid. It almost has, like, a planted feel to the ground.

And I think that one is also-- you know, you talk about, you got to figure out what your use case is. With the Pacifica Hybrid, like, let's say you have a relatively short commute, and you can plug in there. Well, boom. Suddenly, that's the secret sauce for you. But if you have a longer commute, after you run out the, say, 30 miles or so of electric charge, well, then you're just kind of hauling around your dog, your kids, and a bunch of batteries. So that-- and you know, then you're just running on, like, a heavy Chrysler crossover with the old Pentastar V6 in it. So there's pluses and minuses to both. But I--

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah, and I--

GREG MIGLIORE: --tend to put the Carnival somewhere in third.

JAMES RISWICK: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I did a comparison with the Pacifica Hybrid and the Sienna. And run over enough miles, they basically got the same fuel economy, because the Sienna continued to be this-- just as efficient, whereas the Pacifica is, like, infinity MPG and then drops to 20 or something. So the other thing is, you said, put it in third. That means the Odyssey's last. And it's kind of--

GREG MIGLIORE: Mm. So I should clarify that.

JAMES RISWICK: --and it should-- and honestly, it should be, because, like--

GREG MIGLIORE: You think it's last? I was going to say maybe a tie for third. I don't know.

JAMES RISWICK: I think it's last because, like, I do like the-- it does have unique functionality of its magic seat. But that's kind of it. That's the only kind of distinctive element that it has, while at the same time being so boring-- unnecessarily boring-- compared to everything else, and not-- it's-- also to drive. Like, back in the day, one of the reasons you got the Odyssey was 'cause it, quote, drove like an Accord. This doesn't drive like an Accord. The steering is, like, really numb and flaccid and not-- just, it's really a downer to drive the thing.

And like, why do you-- owning a minivan, you're kind of like-- there's already kind of a depressing element to it. It's kind of-- there's a reason so many people buy SUVs instead. So like, did you have to go out of the way to make it so blah? Like, Honda, you can do better than that. It's not indicative of the brand. It's just kind of like this-- yeah, I hope they turn up the volume a little more on the next one.

GREG MIGLIORE: I will say this. Rolling up in the Carnival is great for preschool drop-off and, you know, around-town errands. But it's definitely more fun to roll up in a Chevy Tahoe Premier. $76,000-plus with the big 6.2-liter V8, beautiful shade of-- kind of like midnight blue. Yeah, I mean, when you roll up in that, you literally see over everybody else. So-- and there's obviously some pluses and minuses to that.

But I mean, my big takeaway, after a weekend in that, is that I think GM really has gotten all of their large SUVs for this new generation that launched around the 2021 model year-- 2020, '21, '22-- they've gotten them right, you know? They did interesting things to them. The styling, I think, is better, across the board, especially with the Tahoe. I think it's a pretty classy look.

I think you could look at this or a Yukon and say, you know what? I might want the Tahoe. I just-- I don't want those headlights and all the stuff that GMC does. The interior-- very nice. They have the premium package. You know, a bunch of different options on it-- cameras, the extra trailer stuff. It didn't have stop-start or the steering-wheel lock out, thanks to the chip shortage, which is-- hey, save $100, right? I don't know if I care that much about stop-start anymore. But overall, it's a very nice vehicle, stem to stern, if you're playing the drinking game. I've now said that three times in this podcast.

So very nice vehicle, very capable and huge, you know? I drove a suburban last year with the EcoDiesel. Not the EcoDiesel, the Duramax diesel. I said that on a previous podcast, and somebody was like, you're dropping RAM and Jeep diesels into General Motors products. The Duramax, of course. But with that, along with the independent rear suspension, which do give you a little bit more space and, of course, better handling--

JAMES RISWICK: Oh, yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: --I think these are fresh vehicles. So--

JAMES RISWICK: The IRS really is a huge deal with that thing. I mean, it can't be said enough, because yes, it's a huge vehicle, but the old one-- the third row was useless. Like, you're sitting on the floor. And then the floor itself is, like, 9 feet in the air. It was-- and you got all wiggly. You had the wiggly-jiggly rear end 'cause it was not an IRS. And it was the reason why the Ford Expedition was better.

Now, I do think Ford still enjoys an advantage under the hood, because the EcoBoost V6 is just a superior [INAUDIBLE] more powerful and ridiculously smooth and is more efficient. But GM has the diesel, which is pretty great. And the GM interiors are nicer than Ford's, even with the updated Expedition for '22. So as long as you get the diesel, I'm on board. Get the GM.

GREG MIGLIORE: This is my first taste of the 2022 Tahoe. I'm pretty sure I drove the '21, which was obviously the main model year-- like, new generation for this particular SUV. And it had the Google-powered infotainment, the Chevy 3 or whatever they call it. And it was interesting. This was my second sort of experience with this. I did it in the Polestar last fall. You know, different executions.

But I mean, more Android in my life, more Google in my life. And you know, I-- it worked OK. I think the user interface is fine. It's not necessarily my favorite. I probably liked it a little more on the Polestar, even. But I mean, it worked. Google Assistant works. Frankly, some of the stuff, I was surprised, actually worked a little better in the car than it did on my phone, which is usually not the way it goes.

Yeah, I mean, that's the main improvement for 2022. And I'll say this. When it comes to large GM SUVs, these generations go on. You know, even in this day and age, these things go for a while. So we don't expect to see major changes with these until, who knows, they become full electric vehicles at some point in the future. I don't know. But I mean, this is the truck that you're going to get, if you so choose.

Speaking of trucks-- and this is another big update for the new generation-- is, the interior is not like the trucks, you know? It's a whole new bespoke, like, Chevy Tahoe interior and suburban and Yukon. And to me, that made a big difference. These things feel competitive with things in that price point, whereas before, it was kind of like, oh, sometimes I do feel like I'm driving in closed Silverado or something. So that's a nice step up for them as well. So big SUV. You know, put a lot of stuff in it-- kids, dogs, stuff, all the stuff that you would do in your minivan.

So that's the Tahoe. Let's move on to some-- I guess the features part of this. You did a nice piece last week on the 20 craziest cars-- car redesigns of the last 20 years. I thought these were interesting in the fact that I kind of went back and forgot how significant some of these redesigns were.

And it was interesting, too. Like, the one that caught my eye was the XJ, how Jaguar essentially reused the same platform and made it look, like, 40 years different, you know, which shows you what design can do. That's for sure. But I mean, were you swilling whiskey at your bar one night, and this started to come out on, you know, napkins? How did you come up with this idea?

JAMES RISWICK: Well, I was in the car for 19 hours driving from or to or from Portland to LA, or vise versa. You start-- you know, the last time that happened, I wrote an article about all 50 US license plates.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK.

JAMES RISWICK: And this time, I started looking around and thinking about most, like, substantial car redesigns in the last 20 years, which is, like, the better part of my automotive career, really. And that XJ really was-- I mean, I drove the 2009, and I drove the 2010. And the '09, the one that looked really old, was a sensational car to drive. And yeah, the platform just carried over.

And they talk about, like-- to use the same platform and the same wheelbase that they share, and to make it look that different is really astonishing. That said, I think the old one looks better now. You know, I was so blown away at the time by how beautiful that 2010 XJ was, but I think the old one has aged better. It's just so--

GREG MIGLIORE: Same.

JAMES RISWICK: --timeless. It's the one I'd want. I'd want the old-timey one. [LAUGHS]

GREG MIGLIORE: I had the same, like, just impetus. Looking at that, I remember how important that XJ was. You know, it won all those interior awards at that time. And people--

JAMES RISWICK: It's beautiful interior, yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, people almost, like, couldn't wait to kick the old dated one to the curb. But now here we are, like, a decade-plus on. And it's like, yeah, OK, the new XJ looked like a lot of different things that we came across in 2010's, whereas the old one-- I mean, that, to me, is more of a Jaguar.

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah, I think they're both really, like, special. But I think I do-- I would want the old one better. But I mean, there's some stuff here that-- I framed it as, there's the ones that changed for the better. Like, holy cow. Look-- how is that even from the same brand? Like the Hyundai Elantra-- in 2010, it's actually not a bad car. At the time, it was pretty practical and not that bad. But it looked like absolutely nothing. And then bam. That's--

Like, 2011, for Hyundai and Kia, was just an absolute renaissance, where they went from cars that looked like absolutely nothing to having some of the most avant-garde, "hey, look at me" styling in the form of Hyundai, and then also just really clean, classic, modern, very attractive styling in the form of Kia. And it's just like, you look at some of the before-and-after photos. And you're just like, oh, wait. Those came one year after another? Like, the Kia Sportage is hilarious-- the difference between them. It looks like three generations should-- are missing there.

And besides the fact that they were giant redesigns for these individual cars, that was a turning point for Hyundai and Kia. They were, you know, value, long-warranty brands. Sure, I guess you can get one, because you don't know where the Honda store is. But like, after that, it was only just a rocket-like trajectory for Hyundai and Kia, thereafter, leading to now there being Genesis as well. And it all came from that redesign in 2011. So that was really staggering for those. That's real-- and the thing is, this list really could have been just most of-- a lot of Hyundai and Kia. But I had to draw the line somewhere.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's funny. I remember going on a lot of Hyundai and Kia press events around that time. And you know, it's almost like, literally, they went from being kind of behind the times with some of those designs to setting trends. I think you could argue that Sonata-- that vintage was a very significant car for Hyundai. I think it won Car of the Year, even, based largely on its styling. I mean, they took a step forward ahead of everybody else. They almost--

JAMES RISWICK: Oh, yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: They had to, in some ways, 'cause they really needed to elevate their brand from being this value-oriented scenario to something that you might aspire to want, or at least put that message out there. You know, I remember they had a Super Bowl commercial where they said, it's Hyundai, like Sunday. And they were just trying to really educate people, and then also kind of sneak up in there. Like, but hey, it does look really good. Look at this car. You thought that was the Elantra, but this is the Elantra now. And you know, that was a big step forward for them. I'm also struck, too, by how quickly they were able to get it together.

JAMES RISWICK: Oh, yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: So--

JAMES RISWICK: Well, I think one thing is, they already had the quality down and the basics of the car. Like, the 2010 Sonata and the 2010 Elantra were like-- they lasted. The quality was there. I mean, there weren't-- in terms of, like, the basics, the bones, it's not like they made some great leap forward from year to year. It's just like, the design was amazing.

And to your point about it making-- being a big deal at the time, the designer of the current Toyota Camry-- I once asked him-- like, we were having drinks or something. I was asking him, like, what car came out that made you and other designers stop and go, uh-oh. Like, oh, this is a game-changer? And he said that 2011 Sonata--

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow, OK.

JAMES RISWICK: --because that was like-- the midsized Sedans just all looked the same, effectively. And that thing did not. That was a game-changer. They were like, we need to step up. And you look at all those sedans thereafter, all that raised the bar. And then the Fusion came out, and that raised the bar even further. That's on the list here. To the point now that all these midsized sedans look really good just in time for no one to want them. But that's besides the point.

The other thing that stood-- I mean, the Nissan Altima, going all the way back to 20 years ago-- that was one where, like, they not only changed the design, they changed the market segment that the car was in. That was the other-- like, the last kind of big game-changer in the midsized sedan segment.

GREG MIGLIORE: I was at a European motor show. I want to say it was Geneva. It could have been Frankfurt. But it was when the Sportage was revealed-- the new generation. And style was the whole, like, press conference, at least the parts of it that I could pick up in English. And I remember it was pronounced the "Sport-ahg." So that's my big memory of that.

It's also interesting, too, when you talk about design, how quickly you can almost put the past away. Like, you have cars that look like they weren't even of the times. They were behind the times. And then the next model year, it's like, boom. That's how that car would look for the next 10, 15 years.

You look at the Mustang. You know, it went from something that was-- had its roots-- I mean, that thing was redesigned in the late '80s, if you will. And then that model came into the '90s after those Fox bodies finally went away. Didn't hang on, actually, as long as some of its predecessors did. But I mean, we've had a version of that Mustang for, what, 17 years now, at this point, going on? You know, that's-- they've made enormous enhancements and improvements. But I mean, to me, that's interesting, how change can happen slowly, then literally all at once. And then that's it for, you know, another 10, 15 years.

So yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting. I interviewed Ralph Gilles, who's the Stellantis, Chrysler head of design. And he had a great line once. I've said this before on the podcast. He said something like, design is timeless. Good design is timeless. Bad design is timeless. It's still bad, you know, 20 years from now. And it's interesting, when you look at some of the different redesigns, which ones went well, which ones didn't, where the older car maybe looked a little better with the benefit of hindsight. It actually kind of hangs on a little better. So I don't know. We're going to be design columnists here.

JAMES RISWICK: Well, I'll just end it with one, and I thought that was interesting 'cause it went beyond design, which is the Nissan Pathfinder.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JAMES RISWICK: And let's go beyond 20 years out of here. So it started as a body-on-frame, kind of what we would call a compact SUV. But it was one of the original SUVs. Body-on-frame truck. Second generation is now unibody, like the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Cherokee. But it's kind of the same body style. Third generation, we're going back to body-on-frame again, but now it's a three-row SUV. Fourth generation, no, we're going back to unibody, but we're keeping the three-row SUV thing.

So they had four generations that were, like, completely different. Like, never mind that-- they're all called Pathfinder, but from the mechanics to their look, couldn't be any different. So that's one that really stood out to me, just kind of like this constant identity crisis over the years.

GREG MIGLIORE: Well, we just had a new generation of Pathfinder. And I remember thinking, when it arrived in my driveway, hmm, what's it going to be this year? You know, I had already read all of the supporting documents and data and all that stuff. But--

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

--the streak has ended, yeah. I find that entertaining, as an automotive journalist. Like, it's more interesting when somebody is all over the place, you know? If it's the same thing with new mirrors and trim, I mean, OK. Cover that in the press release. Let's make it interesting. You know what else is interesting? Is driving in the snow. Step one, get snow tires. Step two, what car should you get?

JAMES RISWICK: Yeah, so this was our best cars for the snow. Now, honestly, the snow-tires thing is the most important. And you know, trying to grade all-wheel-drive systems without a skid pad available and a series of back-to-back tests-- I don't know.

So we just kind of picked the good hardware, torque-vectoring, all-wheel-drive systems, good ground clearance in case you have a lot of deep snow to clear, and kind of focusing more on all-around winter conditions, not just like, yeah, if you have 9 feet of snow, yeah, you probably want something-- you know, a RAM 2500 with the snowplow package. But like, if you're just generally living in Michigan, what would be a better-- what would be a good vehicle? And that was kind of our goal in creating this, is focusing on cars that would be better than most, in their segments. But ultimately, get winter tires.

GREG MIGLIORE: Interesting, they do make a difference, even more so than I think four-wheel or all-wheel drive, in most circumstances, you know? I was just trying to find the-- I'm sure the Tahoe is not on anything special, as far as tires. Couple times, I locked up and went skidding through some of the roads, you know?

And I think, stereotypically, you look at a vehicle that looks like a tank with four-wheel drive and enough ground clearance to do, like, dog tricks with-- I mean, it's pretty well off the ground, but if you hit a patch of ice or you hit snow the wrong way, away you go. And it really does, in many cases, come down to, like, what-- where the rubber meets the road, if you will. So yeah, best snow vehicles. Check it out. Went up last week on autoblog.com. Any final thoughts, James?

JAMES RISWICK: Nope. I'm just going to go cry a bit that they've taken away my DBX.

GREG MIGLIORE: Well, that's a tragedy. But I'm sure something else will be arriving soon and enjoyable, right?

JAMES RISWICK: No, nothing like the DBX.

GREG MIGLIORE: Nothing like the--

JAMES RISWICK: No.

GREG MIGLIORE: --DBX. Nothing like the DBX.

JAMES RISWICK: [SNIFFLES]

GREG MIGLIORE: I tell you what. If I can remember, vividly, my drive of it, like, a year, almost, later, that's when it's a memorable car. I mean, you could-- I couldn't tell you what I drove the week before or the week after. But easy podcast conversation, 'cause some cars really are that memorable, right? So that's kind of neat.

All right. Well, maybe it's snowing where you are. If so, you have a list to choose from. It is actually about to snow right now. Like I said, we had a cold snap here. But it seems to be about to snow here. Send us your Spend My Moneys at podcast.autoblog.com. If you enjoy the podcast, please give us a five-star rating on Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next week. Be safe out there.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

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