In this week's Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Consumer Editor Jeremy Korzeniewski and News Editor Joel Stocksdale. They kick things off discussing a whole raft of big car debuts this week that would have undoubtedly been part of the L.A. Auto Show if it happened this year. Some of those big reveals include the new Honda Civic, Subaru BRZ and Jeep Wrangler 392. They follow that with some other news highlights and end with green crossover-themed "Spend My Money" segment.
Transcript[THEME MUSIC]
GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to "The Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me today on this episode is our consumer editor, Jeremy Korzeniewski, and our news editor, Joel Stocksdale. Got a great show for you. We're going to jump right in. Today, this week was sort of like the Los Angeles Auto Show. It wasn't. This is one of the times it historically has been-- right before Thanksgiving. We had a lot of cool cars that were revealed.
Coincidentally, I think just maybe a lot of marketing budgets needed to be cashed out in the fourth quarter. They were already allocated for this time, and, boom, let's show some cars. So hey, that's fine with me. We'll talk about them. It's great. We've got a 392 Wrangler. We've got the new Honda Civic-- a very important car for Honda, the new Subaru BRZ. You "Autoblog" fans, you guys love that. It's been one of our top traffic stories of the week.
And of course, the Infinity QX55, an important vehicle that I think, Joel, you and I might have a little bit to talk about on that one, simply because it made some comparisons to the FX, which to me is pretty heavy praise. So I'm curious to hear your take on that one. And of course, the Land Rover Disco, got some updates. We have a feature section where we're going to riff on all sorts of things we found on the internet. Finally, we will spend some money. Let's jump right in.
BRZ-- I am generally pretty happy with it. I wrote a piece this week just kind of breaking down some of these reveals. I would have liked to have seen just a sconce more power out of it, maybe a little bit more torque. I didn't expect that they would do anything crazy. I didn't expect them to Hellcat it. But, hey, they gave it some more power. And it remained true to what it is, which is fine.
Overall, I like it. I thought the styling got a little busy, you know? But still pretty attractive, and I think part of the styling for me is the current one is so minimalist and just it's attractive that they didn't really need to do much. But I get that they had to do something. So some of the stuff up front seems a little busier than I would've liked. But otherwise, looks good to me. I'd give it a A-minus just at first glance-- can't wait to drive it. But that's where I stand. What do you guys think-- BRZ?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: No, I think it's cool. I'm really looking forward to getting behind the wheel to see what the new powertrain feels like. You know, it's cliche right now to talk about the BRZ lack of power. It is what it is. And Subaru, I mean, to their credit, I guess, they're sticking to their guns and not giving it a super powerful engine. What is it, 228 horsepower? Is that right?
GREG MIGLIORE: 223, I want to say.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Between 220, 230-- we could look it up. But yeah, I don't know. I'm expecting it to be really great to drive just like the last one was-- one of the most fun cars you can have on, like, a short racetrack where you're not really concerned about top speed, you're more concerned about maintaining speed in the corners. That's the BRZ game, and it's a ton of fun to do.
It's less fun to me on actual roads, though, because, you know, it's hard to worry about maximizing corner speed and keeping up momentum when you're dealing with other cars on the road. And I don't think it's the safest thing in the world to do. And that's where something like-- gosh, I don't know a 5-liter Mustang GT is a lot more fun. You know, you got the little blips of throttle, smoking tires, that kind of thing is always fun. And you can actually dip into that fun reserve on actual roads without being too dangerous.
So I think the BRZ is probably going to be a great track car just like the last one was. Kudos to them for keeping the weight down too. I mean, it's almost unheard of that a new vehicle would come out less than 3,000 pounds and have all the safety and technology goodies that we expect to have today. So as far as styling, I think it's kind of cool. All cars are a little bit over-styled these days, in my view. It's just kind of like-- it's where we are in the automotive world right now.
Go back five years and the designs were a lot cleaner than they are today. But I think the BRZ is visually interesting. The bulbous fenders look kind of neat. I'm not so sure about the rear 3/4 view in pictures. I want to see it in person. But yeah, definitely excited to sit behind the wheel.
GREG MIGLIORE: Joel.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so I know that we've talked about, like, power and things, but I actually-- I don't think that the BRZ and FRS are necessarily underpowered, but my problem is the power curve. Right in the middle of the rev band on the current models, there's, like, this torque plateau or even kind of like a little dip where, like, you can feel the power building for a little while, and then it just kind of stops. And for, like, a couple thousand RPM, it just isn't doing anything.
And then you get sort of a Honda V-tech moment where it suddenly starts picking up again. And with that dip right in the middle, it makes it feel really, really slow in everyday driving. And it's really frustrating. If you take a Mazda Miata, for instance, it's actually fairly punchy in the mid-range.
And it's got short gearing too. And the Miata does not feel as slow as a BRZ when it comes to acceleration. And I mean, I feel like it really comes down to that power curve. And so, like, if they fixed that power curve, I think it's going to be a whole lot of fun to drive. And, like, 230 horsepower in a car that weighs just under 3,000 pounds should be fairly entertaining.
I mean, that's comparable to, like, a Honda S-2000 or a Mazda RX8, but just new. So I think it should be a lot of fun. I'm still sitting with the design. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Like, there are aspects I like about it. I actually kind of like the back end of it. I'm still not sure about the front.
It almost looks like a tiny Ferrari, which I suppose is maybe a good thing for some people. I don't know that it's necessarily a good thing in my book. I'm kind of looking forward to seeing Toyota's take on it. But I'm not totally turned off by it. If it's a great car to drive, hey, I don't care if it's not the prettiest thing on Earth. I do, actually, like the interior. And the digital instrument panel I think looks really cool.
It's not trying to be too fancy and graphical. It actually almost looks a little bit retro. Maybe some people would think that looks a little cheap, but I think it looks cool. But overall, I'm excited. I think it'll be a fun car to drive.
GREG MIGLIORE: I agree with you. I think that interior looks-- you know, it's a good step up from what we currently have with the BRZ, which is, to be fair, a pretty old car. But you know, I mean, when I think of what really Drew me to the BRZ and the FRS, then the Toyota 86 as it eventually became, it really is, like, the steering, the handling, just that manual transmission, such a good gearbox, a little challenging to drive even.
I actually thought it was a decent car in the snow too-- with snow tires on it. Just that, like, low center of gravity, the weight distribution made it-- well, let me put this way, good car in the snow isn't probably the right way to put it. But if you're not going far and you know what you're doing, it's OK. Let me put it that way. That's a BRZ. I think it's really good. Go ahead.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And actually, one other thing-- I just remembered something that James Riswick commented that I completely agree with him on. I hope that part of any weight gain is some additional noise insulation, because the current 86 and BRZ are really, really loud on the highway. They're-- like, I do think if you need one car-- like, if you're an enthusiast, you need a car that can carry some things, but you want something that's sporty and affordable, the BRZ is a great way to go.
But, boy, it's hard to live with if you're doing a lot of highway miles. It's just lots of wind and road noise and it can get kind of tiresome. Like, if they could just quiet it down a little bit more, it'd be an amazing all-rounder.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's a rough car. It's a loud car. A long time ago, actually, when I worked at Automobile, it was one of the all-stars we drove all the way from Michigan to New Orleans. And I was in a BRZ for a good chunk of that drive one day-- I think it was largely through, like, Alabama in February. It was pretty cold. And yeah, man, when I got out of that car, my back hurt. So yeah--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Kind of a gritty engine. Kind of a gritty--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Like, yeah, it is definitely not, like, one of those super smooth Honda 4-cylinders. It's definitely a little rough around the edges, a little bit gruff, but never really bothered me-- but I also didn't drive it through the great state of Alabama in February for hours on end. So that would probably not be nearly as fun.
GREG MIGLIORE: It wasn't bad on the expressway just cruising, but it got tiring.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, I do feel like kind of a gritty, rough engine is sort of a Subaru signature.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, that's right.
GREG MIGLIORE: I'm curious, would you guys like-- there's always this, like, auto journalist, like, theme here that like, well, if I lost my job, this is one of the cars I would buy. It's like, this car, it's like the Mazda 3, it's the GTI, it's the Miata, it's the brown BMW wagon 3 Series, 5 Series used that you find somewhere, and then usually the BRZ over the FRS or the 86 for whatever reason-- maybe just there's a little bit of Subaru predisposition gets thrown in there. Would you guys put this in your, like, sort of short list of, like, an enthusiast car if you needed to drive something that was your own for a long time?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I'm much more eccentric than that. So, no. I mean, I would buy something old and, you know, seemingly ready to break down on the side of the road at all times. That's kind of more my automotive passion.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I think the BRZ 86 would be on my short list. I think probably-- well, there's actually-- like, there's a decent number of, like, good, affordable, kind of practical-ish fun cars out there. But yeah, it'd probably on my short list there with, like, Civic SI. Civic SI would be really high on that list.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Civid SI is pretty great.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Because it's comfortable, it's sporty, it comes with good hardware. It's cheaper than I think both of the BRZ and, like, the VW GTI which would also be high on my list. And actually, I think Hyundai a Veloster Turbo would be high on my list too.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: You know what I also like-- I hope I didn't cut you off, Joel, but it just popped into my head so I'm spitting it out-- Fiat 500C Abarth. It's got, like, the dining room chair seating position that no one really loves, myself included. But I'd have so much fun driving that car. And you know, it's got that top that rolls down, you can really hear that crazy exhaust. That would be up there. I'd have fun with that.
GREG MIGLIORE: I would--
JOEL STOCKSDALE: 500 Abarth is good. That'd be a little lower on my list just because it's a little less powerful. It's not as practical. I'd be a little bit worried about long term reliability. But I do love them. And, Jeremy, we've actually talked about this before, we both like them quite a bit.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. It's one of the few things that Joel and I agree on. I mean, we're quite a bit different in age and automotive passions, but we agree on the Fiat Abarth, so we've at least got that going for us.
GREG MIGLIORE: I'd go 124 Abarth over the 500. But I do like the 500 for what it is. I don't know. I think that car sort of missed the mark for the time and-- the time, essentially, for what it could have done in America. Like, they just-- they introduced that thing when it was, like, just, like, gas prices were low, the economy was getting good, nobody wanted a small car.
Had they introduced it maybe three, four, or five years before they did, who knows? You know, maybe a little bit-- it could've been more of-- what do we call that, not the depression-- the recession, the Great Recession-- that might have been the right car for the times. But I thought it was interesting. It was very Fiat-y, which is cool. And the Abarth, yeah, sure. I mean, the 500 Abarth is intense.
So Honda Civic-- important 11th generation. We don't really know that much about it. I actually-- well, I was not expecting more. This is what Honda does. They roll out a prototype, air quote, and then, you know, it'll have 4-cylinder engines, it'll have most of the body styles that we come to expect.
Interior, actually, that sketch they put out I think is a fairly big departure from, like, the current Civic. I mean, if they could do something close to that, aesthetically, it looks really good, I think. But for me, though, the big question becomes, how are the materials? You know, sometimes a base Honda can feel pretty cheap, then you move up, spend a couple more grand, and they start to look pretty reasonable, which is what you can say about a Ford or a Toyota or a Chevy in this segment.
But you know, I don't know. I think this looks promising. I always go back to 10 years, like Jeremy does-- like, I could-- you know, I think the big Civic stumble was the 2012 edition-- or 2011, whichever year it was. Then they had to rush the redesign out. Whenever they do a new Civic, it's always kind like, whoa, they didn't screw it up, did they? OK, they didn't.
And in this case, I don't think they screwed it up. It looks pretty good to me. And again, we'll see how it rides and how the interior is and all that good stuff. But I will say this-- they just crushed it with the 10th gen. So it's kind of like, you know, I mean-- in some ways, I feel like the styling got a little weirder than I would have liked to have seen. But again, the interior looks promising. That's my ten cent analysis. Joel, you're a Honda guy. You own a Honda. How are you feeling about this?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so overall, I'm quite pleased with it. I think it looks really good. I like the proportions. I like the long, low, flat hood and the short rear deck. I like that they cleaned it up a lot. And one of the big things with the last generation Civic is that I thought the sedan was the ugliest of the bunch. It just had a little bit too much going on. It had kind of a frumpy roofline and trunk. And that's all gone, that's all been fixed.
In some ways, I think they may have gone maybe just a little too conservative. Like, the sides-- the flanks of the car look almost a little bit too just smooth and clean. Like, I feel like if you took a picture of just the doors of that car, you'd have a hard time telling it from, like, a Kia Forte or a VW Jetta. But on the whole, I think it looks really good. I like that the sedan finally looks good. I'm excited to see the hatchback, and I am really excited to see the SI and Type R when those eventually come out.
I'm still kind of sad that the coupe has been dropped. But the fact that the sedan looks good now and the hatchback probably will to makes me feel a little bit better, because with the previous generation, if the coupe hadn't been there, it would've been disappointing, because the coupe was by far the best looking version of that car. And for the interior, I think the interior looks really nice, and I've got high hopes for it.
Honda really nailed the interior on the Honda E, and that's a really small kind of affordable car that has a fairly kind of premium looking interior. So I'm generally optimistic. I am looking forward to actually knowing more about the specifications, because we've got nothing on that right now.
GREG MIGLIORE: I was a little surprised considering there aren't that many opportunities coming forward to reveal cars that they didn't just, like, sort of drop out everything, you know, here. Like, why even show a prototype? Like, I think a prototype makes sense in the old traditional auto show sense of, like hey, there's LA, but then we know Detroit's going to be coming. And I mean, that's the playbook right there-- show the prototype in LA, show the production car in Detroit.
It goes on sale end of the first quarter, away we go. So I was a little-- like, when are they going to show the actual car? So that's a little weird. On the other hand, maybe they don't need to. You know, my thinking maybe is a little dated-- like, that's close enough, then they'll do like another Twitch stream, and away we go. But to back up, I want to give them credit for using a Twitch stream.
That, to me, was very with the times, very try to reach a new audience, people who maybe don't even care about your car but they're on Twitch, meet the potential buyer where they're at. Civic buyers a lot of times, you know, are younger. You know, and obviously, they have their own very hardcore enthusiast base as well. But I thought that was actually pretty savvy move. And there's really no loss, because if you didn't watch it on Twitch, you could just watch it somewhere else or look at the replay. It wasn't that big of a deal. They did it at, like, 10 o'clock on a Tuesday. So you know, I thought that was a smart move.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, I agree with that. I think they're definitely hitting their target audience with a Twitch reveal. Kudos to Honda for being the first to use that platform. As far as the actual vehicle, I don't know-- I'm waiting for more. I'm currently unimpressed. I think the vehicle itself, I agree with what Joel said that it maybe is a little bit too sedate. I don't think that was exactly his word, but, like, under-styled or something like that. But sedate is kind of like the word for me.
Like, do you remember when Volkswagen had, like-- you know, they kind of had, like, an enthusiast Jetta-- like, people liked it. It was stylish. It was European. It had a lot going for it. Then they kind of dumbed it down appearance wise for the American market. And this Civic actually reminds me of that a little bit. They lost a lot of the uniqueness, I think, that we've come to expect from the Civic.
I feel like the Civic has always been a little bit of a risk-taker in design going back to putting in dact interior like gauge clusters. The most recent one was a radical-- not the prototype we're looking at now, but the current one that's on sale-- was a radical departure. They came out with the hatchback. It's got these, like, over-styled vents all over it.
And I don't know, like, I feel like that's more their target demographic. And the new prototype they've just released and showed pictures of kind of looks like a cross between a Jetta and a Cadillac CT4 or CT5 to me. And I don't know why they did that, like, made it more adult looking. And I don't really think that's the direction that the Civic should go in.
However, they've only showed us a very basic looking sedan. There's going to be better, cooler versions. There's going to be an SI. I'm sure there's going to be a Type R. And I think that they're going to recapture people's attention probably with those. I'm less excited by the hatchback, actually, because we've seen some patent drawings of it. And in profile, all I can see is Accord Tour, which is that weird kind of a hatchback Accord with, I don't know, bustle back rear end look.
Didn't like it then, not going to like it this time either. But that'll be the practical one. So I guess what it all boils down to is I'm sure it's going to be good. I trust Honda to turn out good products more than probably any other automaker selling in the United States. I'm going to get behind the wheel. It's going to drive really well. I'm probably not going to care all that much what it looks like on the outside, and I'll still recommend it to people as a good driving, practical, reasonably priced, everyday car.
GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good. How about we-- go ahead, Joel. I was going to go tug Jeep Wrangler, but I think you've got something more on the Civic. Let's do our Civic duty.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Just a little bit more.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, man. Let's hear it.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Just-- while we don't know a whole lot, there are a couple things that we do know. We do know that the hatchback production is coming to North America, and it will actually be built in Indiana alongside the sedan, which is kind of neat. And I also think that that gives us a good chance of getting a hatchback SI for the first time instead of just a hatchback sport which I think will be really nice and I think it's something that a lot of people have been kind of hoping for.
The reason we didn't have a hatchback SI for the previous generation was that the SI was all developed by Honda North America, and they just used the 1.5-liter engine that was available in the sedan and coupe, and that's because those cars were being built here. The hatchback was built in England. So I'm hoping that because all that production is coming here, that Honda North America will have more of a chance to mess around with the hatchback and give us a sporty version of that, especially since we're losing the coupe.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, the coupe is, I think, one of the downsides. I'm glad you mentioned that again there, Joel. I really like the Civic coupe. I think that's a little kind of a wah wah that they're getting rid of it or not doing it for this generation. Makes sense-- I mean, just the market for that type of car is not there.
I don't know, is this maybe an after effect of Brexit but they've got to move the hatch to Indiana? Because they can't make them in the UK anymore. I remember when-- at least profitably. So I don't know, kind of an odd tangent there, but who knows-- Brexit helps us somehow. I don't know. Cool cool, should we talk 392?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: We should definitely talk 392.
GREG MIGLIORE: Why don't you take it away, the man who's in the [INAUDIBLE] JK.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yes sir. Yeah, so this is what we've been waiting for, right? We've been thinking, you know, the 3.6 is a pretty good engine. You know, if you want to save a little bit of fuel, there's the 2.0, and they're going to come out with a hybrid. What everyone's been wanting in the Wrangler is a big infusion of power for a long time. And they're giving us what we wanted.
I'm a little bit surprised that they just went all out with the 392. They probably could have gone mid-level and just given the market the V8 that they'd been-- you know, or it didn't have to be a V8, but you know, just a regular Hemi V8 probably would have satiated those fans that have been, you know, complaining about the lack of power and trying to bump the power of their Wranglers for years.
And one thing that I think people overlook when talking about Wranglers is when you take one that's got a reasonable amount of power from the factory and then you lift it and put big wheels and tires on it, it gets really slow. And hybridizing, I think, is awesome, and it's going to give that low speed electrification. But highway passing power and you know, and, like, those kinds of, like, high speed maneuvers needed something with displacement, and they're finally getting it.
I think it's cool that they went into naturally aspirated 64 instead of that is something supercharged. I know in the past, they've said that packaging issues made the supercharged Hellcat engine untenable. I don't really buy that. I think they could have engineered their way out of that if they wanted to. But I think it's actually cool they went with the naturally aspirated-- just kind of to me fits with the idea of kind of, like, the back to basics, you know, notion of a Wrangler as an SUV.
And I think it's going to be a blast. Like, what other vehicle is going to have, like, that crazy level of performance that you can take the top off and you can go blasting sand dunes? And I mean, you could say-- I just got out of the Ram TRX earlier this week, and it's like-- that, obviously, is, like, a whole other level of off-road performance. But it's just not the same thing as a Wrangler.
You're not taking the top off. You're not, like, hitting the beaches and that kind of thing that people typically do with Wranglers. So really cool-- I think it's awesome that they're doing it. And it's about time.
GREG MIGLIORE: 392-- if they had said, Greg, what engine do you want us to put in the Wrangler? It would've been this one. I like the 64 better than the-- I believe it's a 62 that's supercharged and used in the Hellcats. I think this one is more visceral, it sounds better. It's truer when you drive it.
It's just-- it's more linear. I mean, there is no displacement for naturally aspirated displacement like this. I think it's one of my favorite engines in the Charger, specifically, but it's good in everything that they put it in. It's a brilliant move, I think. And I think it really-- 470 horsepower, that's going to be a lot in the Jeep Wrangler, I think.
You know, I think it's really going to change just a little bit of the essence of its drive character-- not what the Wrangler is. But I mean, now you've legitimately got, like, a hot right engine, you know, in there. I think if they needed to, like, kind of wedge the Hellcat in there with the supercharger, at that point, what, you just drive without the hood on like you're some sort of 1930s, like, hot rodder? Which would be amazing.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Hey, you don't need doors. You don't need a windshield. You don't need a hood.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I mean, exactly. Sounds good to me. I could just picture somebody, like, riding around-- you know, I don't know, maybe they have like a bunch of land or something, and that's, like, their thing is they put the Jeep in the barn and have all the doors and things off of it and so it's covered, of course. And then when it's time to go cause trouble, away you go.
Yeah, why would you need a hood? Doesn't make sense to me. You don't need a windshield, so-- I guess you do need the hood to put the windshield on when you fold it down. Thinking.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: You're thinking too rationally, Greg. Just rip it all off. We're hot rodding this thing.
GREG MIGLIORE: At some point, it's just, like, seats in a chassis with a Hellcat engine. That kind of sounds like something Dodge would do for the next generation of the Challenger.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: We're headed that direction, aren't we?
GREG MIGLIORE: They're like, we've got this, like, 20-year-old Mercedes platform, what can we do to make it different? No body, just an engine.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: The funny thing is we could all see that coming to SEMA at some point. Like, Oh, OK, yeah, we've been waiting for this.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: It's basically the Ariel Atom, but as a Jeep Wrangler.
GREG MIGLIORE: That sounds terrifying.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: What do you think, Joel?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, Joel, what do you think?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I mean, I'm surprised they haven't done this sooner. I mean, we've had years and years and years and years of people swapping in LS engines or small block Chevy's or even Hemi V8's into Wranglers. And Chrysler is known for, hey, we've got a really old car. What do we do to spruce it up? More engine-- more. More. Put more in it. That's all-- that's their kind of like go-to move. And so it's shocking that it has taken this long.
And I think Jeremy made excellent points. Yeah, like, when you're lifting something and adding big tires like that, it's more weight. That's taller gear ratios. And at a certain point, that V6 is going to feel painfully underpowered if you're going crazy with the off-road modifications. And, like, the fact that there's been so much aftermarket support for, like, V8 swaps in Wranglers, there's definitely a market for this. I think they'll sell plenty.
And I think that not just the V8, but also, like, the hybrid, which I'm super excited about, because it gives you, like, usable electric range and pretty good fuel economy. And it's going to be the second-most powerful Wrangler you can buy. It has nearly as much torque as the V8. I think having this giant powertrain option list is going to keep the Wrangler relevant, especially now that the Bronco is coming out.
I mean, you have two engine options for the Bronco. You've got the turbo 4 or the turbo V6. Go with Wrangler, you're going to have a gas V6. You can have a turbo 4-cylinder. You can have a turbo diesel V6. You can have a plug-in hybrid. You can have a V8.
You've got a big range of options. You can go for crazy power or crazy fuel efficiency or something really affordable. I think Jeep has a real selling point with all of these different power trains. And I think that's going to be really important, because the Bronco is a serious machine. Ford did not pull any punches when they developed that.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think the Bronco-- it's one of those things where, like, the rising tide is going to have to lift all boats. And I feel like-- I mean, you guys remember, just a few years ago, the Wrangler was literally the same for years. It didn't change. They'd roll out a new generation, and it would look the same. And that's fine, because that's what everybody wanted. And there was no other competition. The power train-- I mean, jeez, for a while, it was that old 4-liter V6, which was, like--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Inline 6.
GREG MIGLIORE: Straight 6, yes, yes, of course.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, we don't want the comments going crazy.
GREG MIGLIORE: As I literally was saying it, there was this, like, parking brake or, like, emergency brake going off in my head saying, it's a straight 6 not a V6. But I mean, what was that, like, an AMC motor or something? And they were still using it, like, not that long ago. So it's-- you know, I think now that there is such a formidable competitor out there that is so appealing-- like, the Bronco has immediate crossover appeal. Like, people love it.
You know, I mean, it's just-- even if you don't like cars, you're like, what's that thing? That's cool. You know, and immediately, it's, I would say, almost cooler than the Wrangler, which is not a place you want to be. But eventually, some of this stuff will, you know, fade away, like, just like we saw with the Gladiator. That was the best thing since sliced bread a couple of years ago. And now it's like, OK, you know, there's other things.
And you know, I mean, just all the scope that you can get with all of these powertrain options I think is-- like, if you're really going to, like, compare them, the Wrangler is once again-- to me, it's like, it's a 50-50 thing. I wouldn't look at the Bronco and say, oh, slam dunk, it's better because it's newer. It's got this great 1960s-themed styling. I mean, yeah, that's amazing. It looks cool.
But I mean, especially around here, and once they have a couple of years, it's not going to be the coolest thing on the block, because it will reach that-- like, all the early adopters will get them, and then it'll be like, wait a minute, the Wrangler, the Jeep, that's cool. You know, and hey, you can get a hybrid Jeep? That's amazing. You know?
And Joel-- or maybe Jeremy, you said this-- like, you really can get it in any flavor you want. If you just want that Pentastar V6 for, like, a reasonable price, still looks like a Wrangler. You're going to do everything you need to do off-road. You don't need the 392 to, like, do the Rubicon. So it's there for you.
And you know, I really think this current generation of Wrangler, they really got it right. You know, they tweaked just a few things like the headlight and some of the, like, window sizes and the belt line-- really subtle things that you don't notice at first. Even, like, the wheels and then, like, the clearance between the wheels-- if you don't look closely, you don't see it. But then when you look at, like, a previous gen and then the current gen side by side with, like, the headlights, it's like, Oh, of, course. This is such a more contemporary vehicle. It's still the Jeep, and that's cool.
So this 392 is, I think, going to really-- I wrote this earlier this morning too that I think this takes it into almost like-- not into G Class territory, but it out guns the G Class-- the 550, I want to say, with 460 horsepower from the bi-turbo, as they like to call it, V8. Your Wrangler has more horsepower. And I think there's a lot of people who, whatever they end up pricing this thing at-- I'm going to throw a dart and say it's going to start at 65. I don't know, I'd be interested to hear you guys think. You got a couple options, suddenly your Wrangler's like $75-- that's a lot of money for a Wrangler, still $50 grand less than a G Class.
But it's also maybe that kind of appeal that it's cool, it's essentially a luxury item, but you're not driving a Mercedes. I actually think in some ways, that's the new luxury right now is, like, people don't want to drive these old money luxury cars. They'd rather drive a Jeep, get everything on it, and roll with it that way. So I don't know, what do guys think this thing's going to cost? Curious, asking for a friend.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: So the TRX comes in, starts at $69,995 with the big Hellcat and the crazy suspension and all that. So I'm going to say the Jeep will be a little bit less than what you said. I'll throw out $59,995 and say that's where they'll start it.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting too, because the scat pack-- those for a while started in the low-40s with this engine, like in the Challenger and the Charger. That's just not how I think they would position this. Those were, like, very basic cars too. Like, it was like, you got the motor, and that's what you got. It was basically, like, a charger SE with this huge whompin V8 in it. I don't think that's going to be the play here. But just another theory here.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah I think they're giving it, like-- I think they're giving it-- they're treating it definitely as a high end trim.
GREG MIGLIORE: For sure, as they should.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, as they should. And now that we know that the 64 will fit in there, it does leave them room to put a smaller hemi in on a lower trim. Like, if this proves super successful and they start losing ground to the Bronco's turbo V6, you know, maybe they will come with a mid-level V8. Last thing on this topic that's, like, sticking in my head-- then you guys maybe have other thoughts.
But you know that the Gladiator's coming. Like, they're going to do it, and I think it's going to be based on the Mojave with its different suspension setup. And it's already got the hood and everything that they're using. Like, you gotta believe that's not far behind, right?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I think you would definitely stick it in the Gladiator. And it's perhaps an even more natural home than the Wrangler, just because the Gladiator is a large vehicle. It's a truck. There is definitely precedent for having trucks like this. I mean, I wouldn't call this, like, a Lightning or something like that, but I mean, at least you're starting to go down that road-- like, a powerful truck. And the Gladiator, again, is a little bit something different than that F-150 ever was. But yeah, man, it's fine with me.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: The only thing that I'll mention with Gladiators-- and I was seeing some of our colleagues from other outlets discussing on Twitter and things about a potential hindrance to putting the V8 in the Gladiator could be cooling, because they do a few little changes to improve airflow. And also I think they add, like, an extra transmission cooler to the Gladiator just with the V6.
And that's all going to take up some space. And so if you get this bigger, hotter engine in there that's taking up extra space, you may have some difficulty getting it cooled down and still being able to maintain things like towing and cargo hauling requirements that they want to meet--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Right, yeah, it is the tow rating. You're absolutely right. Like, that would be--
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And it is a pick-- like, it's a pickup truck, so it does have different kind of criteria for buyers and what they're looking for.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I'll just counter with don't put it past engineers to come up with a solution. You know, like, the solution on the regular Gladiator was to make the grill openings a little bit larger compared to a Wrangler. Like, that's not such a big deal. Like, you know, with bands and other air intakes and, you know, openings to exhale and all that-- like, I imagine that they could figure that out. But I guess we'll see.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And that's certainly true. And I guess regardless of whether they figure it out or if it takes time, I'm guessing it'll probably be another year or two before we see anything like that, just because, you know, they want to give the Wrangler V8 some room to breathe. They don't want to come straight out and be like, hey, we're also doing Gladiator V8.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Parse that out over time.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Don't want to give buyers a reason to hold back, right?
GREG MIGLIORE: They will wait until Ford, like, shows the Maverick or something. And then they're like, oh, hey, by the way, we're putting this big V8 in the Gladiator. So it goes. So here's a couple more reels we'll wrap this segment up with. We've got the-- Disco got an update. Kind of like a mid-cycle refresh, it's a turbo 6, and then, of course, the Infinity GX 55. Let's start with the Land Rover.
The Disco, I would say, is one of my-- and I generally like Land Rovers, but I found the Disco to be relatively boring in the Land Rover lineup. Give me the Velar all day. And the Velar is only about $4 grand more. So to me, there's, like, not even a comparison. Or for less money, you can get a defender like $8 grand less. So you know, to me, the Disco is kind of like the middle child in the lineup that just doesn't do much, you know, for me.
But Land Rover is making it a little bit better. Check out the piece on "Autoblog." This is written by Zac Palmer. He kind of lays out all the different things that are going on. The diesel is gone,but there is a new turbo in line six, you know, some interior upgrades. Otherwise, that's about it. I mean, this to me, like, is so, like I just said, straight out of Los Angeles Auto Show central casting.
Like, a Land Rover, so they usually do it on one of the coasts. It's, like, a mid-cycle refresh, otherwise they probably would have saved it for, like, maybe Detroit, but more likely, like, Frankfurt or some, like, European reveal or something-- or maybe Paris. Land Rover mid-cycle refresh-- this is, like, the most LA thing ever as far as, like, auto show reveals go. I don't know. I think they did what they had to, though, to make it competitive-- or keep it competitive.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, I'm more of-- more of a Defender kind of guy, just like what you just said. But you know, I think the Discovery is a-- it's a very handsome vehicle. They've got a 296 horsepower, 2-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder, which is, I think, going to be the base entry level engine. And then there'll be a 3-liter turbo charge in-line 6 for people who want to step up from there.
I don't know what it is exactly about the Discovery to me, but, like, I don't know. It doesn't excite me. Kind of like what you just said, the Velar, I think, is exciting. The Defender is exciting. The top shelf Range Rovers are exciting. I don't know, the Discovery is fine. It's, I think, headed in a good direction with these updates. I think despite the lack of the diesel engine they're getting rid of, I think that these two gas engines are probably the ones that people were going to choose anyway.
So yeah, I mean, you're exactly right about this being total LA debut, though. Like, this is exactly what you'd expect to see, like, oh, pull the covers off the new Land Rover Discovery in Los Angeles for the auto show. You know, like, that's the right play. But I don't know, maybe it's my Midwesternness standing out here, but I'm just not particularly excited about it.
GREG MIGLIORE: Any thoughts, Joel?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I'm with Jeremy. I-- just, like, there's just nothing that really excites me about the Discovery. I mean, like you guys said, I think the updates are good. I think the straight 6 will be nice in it. And I mean, it's based on the F-pace chassis, which is really good to drive. But I think you guys were-- I'm looking at pictures of it, and I'm like-- I think one of the problems it has is that I feel like it doesn't really have an identity anymore.
You have the Evoque, which is the funky, trendy, affordable entry level one. You've got the defender, which is the, like, classic retro, like, ultimate off-roading version of a Land Rover. You've got the Velar that's, like, the flashy, stylish, chic road-going, cruising kind of Range Rover. And then you have your other-- you've got your, like, kind of traditional Range Rovers, which are just sort of a top-- they do everything.
And then Discovery just sort of seems like it's there. And, like, even design wise, it doesn't-- it just doesn't have anything that makes it super distinct. If you look closely, you'll see little tributes to the older Discoveries. Like, you can see just a little bit of a hump over the back of it, kind of like the older Discoveries and like the LR3, I think it was.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And it's got sort of the funky asymmetric rear hatch. But otherwise, it kind of looks-- it kind of looks like just a slightly smaller, like, Range Rover Sport or Velar. I don't know, it just-- there's nothing that really makes it stand out. Like, it-- it feels almost a little bit like a knockoff of kind of like the bigger Land Rovers.
And I feel like the Discovery used to be a much more distinct machine. And I think it's just lost that, and it's hard to get excited about that, especially when there are substantially more distinct models in the lineup now like the Defender and the Evoque and the Velar.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, historically-- historically, there hasn't been a Velar. So there's that, right? In some ways, it's almost like Land Rover is a victim of its own, like, risk-taking. They're like hey, let's introduce this new model. Let's try and get some new people in here. Then, boom, all of a sudden their existing thing looks kind of dated and plain compared to the new Velar, which I think we all agree we like.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. I mean, touching on that point, the good news is the updates we're talking about with the engine change in the in-line 6, that's coming to Velar too. We're going to announce that-- let me make sure I'm speaking accurately here. For 2021, yeah, they're going to get the hybrid electric powertrain with the in-line 6 and the 48-volt architecture. So that's coming to the Velar too. So the things that we're excited about and we think are a good move in the right direction for the Discover are coming to the one that we prefer anyway.
But still, like, the big-- I think It's going to be hard for them to point people in the direction of those vehicles when they've got that defender out right now, which is kind of like the new hotness in the segment. I think that's going to bring a lot of people into dealerships. And I think that's probably the one that people are going to be driving away with too.
GREG MIGLIORE: Let's talk about one more reveal here that I think is, again, very LA Auto Show style. That's the Infinity QX55, which I think looks pretty good. You know, they're comparing it to the FX, which I think is pretty heavy praise. You know, I mean, I was going through the press release, and they made the comparison-- usually, we're the ones who try to, like, make these spiritual successor comparisons. But, no, they're basically saying, remember the rear-wheel drive FX with the long hood, the, like, kind of chopped roofline? Hey, this is its spiritual successor, this QX55 thing.
Which I'm not sure I buy that, but it does-- it makes some sense. It's definitely a very styled up crossover coupe thing. It's all-wheel drive, not rear-wheel drive. Proportions are certainly a lot different. It's more kind of, like, pushed together versus, like, the VFX. But that was a great driving crossover. That was, to me, almost like a sports sedan that happened to be a crossover based on, like, cargo hatch and, like, ride height-- brilliant vehicle as far as I'm concerned.
But you know, this looks OK, I guess. I mean, it's definitely where the market's going-- crossover, coupe, all wheel drive, lots of, like, you know, stylings and flourishes. So yeah, I'm OK with it. I don't have a huge strong opinion other than it reminds me how much I like the FX.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, and this is the thing-- I think style wise, I think it's actually a pretty fair comparison. The old FX was very much kind of that coupe-ish S kind of crossover. It had that really low roof and kind of a sleek fast back rear hatch. It looked more sporty car than traditional SUV. And I think-- and I mean, that's what this new QX55, it has, like, the super flowing kind of more sports car like lines, and it has the fast back roof.
And actually, I think it's one of the more successful crossover coupe designs, in part because the base car had that, like, very flowy, curvy shape that complements a curvy roofline. But like you said, Greg, the FX was a very different vehicle mechanically. Like, you could have it with a V6 or even a V8 and rear-wheel drive or all-wheel drive. And it was built on an extremely good chassis, the old G35, G37 chassis, which at the time was praised as being, like, kind of a Japanese BMW 3 Series.
GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, that car would win comparison tests too, I remember. People would-- I mean, sometimes it wouldn't even necessarily magically come out ahead, because magazines wouldn't want to rate it ahead of the 3 Series, but just to jump in, that was a brilliant car too.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And the thing is, I mean, I've driven the regular QX50, and it's fine. But it's not-- there's nothing very exciting or engaging about it. It's very just kind of-- just general crossover. It's not necessarily-- like, it's got neat tech under it. It's got the variable compression engine, which is really cool. But driving wise, it's just not that exciting. And that may be fine.
If it looks really good on the outside-- and it has the QX50's interior, which is really nice. Like, if you get that high trim with all the leather all over the dashboard, like, the nice flowing lines in it, it's a really good looking car inside and out. And that might be enough for some people. But yeah, it's hard not to think about the much more kind of enthusiast oriented FX when they make that kind of comparison.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. Yeah, I'll just be real brief here because I'm going to echo what you guys have said for the most part. I think as a styling play, the QX55 really works. It actually kind of-- it reminds me, and this is probably a stretch, but it reminds me a little bit of the Acura ZDX, not in its shape, but in the fact that Acura's styling of the time worked better on the ZDX than it did on their more mainstream products. And I think that's true of this new QX55 as well.
Infinity's kind of sensuous design language with the flowing curves and the kind of pinches all over the place and the swoopy sides, it really works on this QX55. And I think it works better here than it does on those, like, more mainstream products like the QX50, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But I think Joel's absolutely right.
People are going to buy it based on its style more than they're going to buy it based on its driving dynamics, which is sad to say, because Infinities of the past were great driving vehicles when they were built-- what was that, the FM architecture? Isn't that what they called it?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Oh, I have no idea what the chassis name was.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I think it was, like, FM for like front mid-- or front-- I don't remember. But regardless, they were praised as being great, dynamic cars. This, I don't expect to be that, but I think they nailed the styling.
GREG MIGLIORE: So we like how it looks, and we don't really know anything else other than it's got that VC turbo that we all agree we generally think is pretty good. So let's transition to the feature section, which I will call Random Auction Find section. This is basically a pure excuse for me to talk about a '73 Chevelle that one of our contributors, Joe Lauria, wrote about this week.
It's going to cross the auction block at the Mecum Auctions probably-- I think if you're listening to this on Friday, I think that's when it's going up. Usually those are on TV. It's kind of a fun just way to zone out. And if you're looking at your phone and eating something and you want something on in the background, I like watching car auctions. This is a Laguna station wagon, '73 Chevelle, one of approximately 64 or 6,600-- 6,640 produced in 1973. That's the Laguna wagon.
'73 was the only year the Laguna was a wagon-- spent most of its life in New Mexico and Texas according to the auction listing. And now I'm basically just reading from it. I just think if you're looking for random stuff, and I love looking at, like, the auctions and looking at the Craigslist findings and just all the stuff-- this is just, like, the weirdest, most random thing I've ever seen. Oddly enough for a Laguna, it has a 350. When I think of most Lagunas-- although it was, I believe, an option. The 454 V8 is what you would get on those Chevelles.
But again, I guess it was an option, which is-- you know, the 350 was standard. Big engines back then, cubic inches, not a lot of good fuel economy, but do check this out. If nothing else, it's, like, a wood-bodied Chevelle. And I use that air quotes, because I don't think this is real wood.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: It's wood from the vinyl tree.
GREG MIGLIORE: There we go. A good, you know, part of the forest, let's put it that way. So that was my gratuitous thing. I love the '73 Chevelle. I like Chevelles for a variety of reasons. Jeremy, you can just talk now.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: So I told Greg this story. My dad in the early 1970s was just, you know, becoming financially stable enough that he could start shopping for new cars. And he decided he was going to get a brand new Chevelle. They came out with the new body style for '73, and he was like, oh man, I really like the '72 better. So he chose not to get the '73 and got a '73 Firebird instead.
Now, with the benefit of hindsight looking back at this wagon, this is sweet. This is a cool thing. I would not have suggested my early 20-somethings father-- actually, he would've been exactly 20 years old in 1973-- not something he would have bought or wanted to buy back then. But now I think if this thing, the one we're talking about with the vinyl, like, dark wood sides and aluminum side trim-- if that thing were to pull up in a cars and coffee or the local car show, it'd gather a crowd.
It's got those cool American racing wheels on it. Like, I don't think they did anything with like its stance, so to speak, but it looks just right the way it sits on its wheels and tires. I like it, big fan. Not an auction find, and completely different from Chevelles, other than the fact that they're both cool, we ran a story today that Morgan is ending production of the three-wheeler. This makes me sad.
I love the Morgan three-wheeler. It's one of those little automotive idiosyncrasies that this British company known for super old-world, like, engineering and design, like, came back out with something from their past-- the three-wheeled vehicle with a v-twin up front and, you know, two tiny little seat-- well, it's like a little itty bitty bench inside. But I remember when they rolled that thing out at the Geneva Auto Show in whatever year it was-- 2011, 2012, I don't know.
And that thing got the biggest crowds in the entire auto show. And you know, remember, this is Geneva where, like, all the craziness comes-- Brenspeed and Baro and, like, all these like little itty bitty boutique manufacturers that you've never even heard of. They roll their designs out in Geneva, and everyone was just surrounding this three-wheeler-- coming to an end.
We saw this eBay find of the day. Greg said he wanted to talk about it-- or Craigslist find of the day, whatever it was. I don't remember. But that made me start thinking about the three-wheeler when I saw it's ending production. So I fired up the classified ad machine-- thank you, Google-- and I found that early Morgan three-wheelers-- 2013, 2014-- they're selling for just over $40,000 right now.
That is a lot of money for a fun little toy, but I don't think they're going to lose value. So, like, I don't know. Is now the time to buy that Morgan three-wheeler that you've always liked? It's headed out of production. It, like-- has it depreciated as far as it's going to depreciate? We don't really like specialized and that kind of thing, like, predicting values on "Autoblog." But I don't know, I'm wondering, like, is now the time to go out and get that super fun little crazy Morgan three-wheeler, park it in your garage, and hold on to it for 10 years?
GREG MIGLIORE: You could trailer it behind your Chevelle Laguna station wagon and probably have some fun. And I think it could be the time. I don't know. I agree with you that that-- is we sort of stereotype the auto shows, a Morgan three-wheeler is very Geneva-- something you would see maybe in the basement with, you know, like, the tuners and-- although they've been on the main floor too as I think back to my Geneva days. Joel, you want to weigh in with something random that you could spend your money on, or not?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, since we brought up Geneva, that reminded me in this also kind of strange segue about some of the other big news this week-- that Mercedes Benz has taken the Nurburgring Nordschleife lap record with the Mercedes AMG GT Black series. This is the super high performance AMG DT that is more performance than the also super high performance GTR and the already pretty performance-oriented GTC and GTS and all those things.
It set a lap time of 6 minutes, 43.616 seconds. And that is 1.35 seconds faster than the Lamborghini Aventador SVJ that previously held the record. And I think this is pretty impressive in the sense that the GT Black series has 40 fewer horsepower than the Lamborghini, and also the AMG GT, it's a front-- it's a more traditional front engine sports car.
I know that, like, a couple of years ago, Chevy was talking about how they were kind of reaching the upper limits of what kind of performance they can get out of a front engine-- and in that case, rear wheel drive car. The AMG GT has the benefit of being all wheel drive. But I mean, Chevy was talking about, like, yeah, we're kind of-- we're kind of at the maximum of, like, what we can do with this front engine layout. And so that's part of why they went to a mid-engine layout.
And the Lamborghini was mid-engine with more power and with some kind of freaky kind of left and right variable downforce trickery. And the AMG GT kind of went out there basically just with, like, borderline track ready suspension and aero and set a new record.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's a good point-- good thing to highlight. Yeah.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on the car, or maybe more in general, do you even care about the Nurburgring times anymore?
GREG MIGLIORE: I don't, but I think it's a great reason to, like, in our case, write about amazing cars. And the pictures of this GT are amazing. That's some really good automotive photography, if you will. So yeah. I mean, hey, and I always think if you're going to shave off a couple of seconds and-- you know, let's see what Lambo can do next.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. My only commentary on Nurburgring lap records is that they are extraordinarily impressive. The fact that they're whittling these times down to 1.3-second improvement, that doesn't sound like a lot, but get yourself on that track and drive it flat out, and you'd be thrilled with that improvement. But I don't care.
It has no effect on whether that vehicle is actually going to be better to drive on not Nurburgring than the Lamborghini or some other version of the GT. So impressive, congratulations, Mercedes-- why do we care? I don't.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well--
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I think I kind of fall in between here. Like, I still think it's kind of fun to see new Nurburgring records and things. And I'm interested in them. But I think the problem that happens for a lot of people is that a lot of people just take them way too seriously. It's like, listen, you can get upset about, like, oh, this manufacturer, like, left out the spare tire or ran slightly stickier tires-- yeah, that's not great.
But also at the same time, it's like-- like Jeremy said, it really doesn't have any bearing on how good the car is to drive in a normal fashion. And frankly, probably 99.5% of the people that might get all in a huff about this kind of stuff are never, ever going to be able to drive that car that well. Like Jeremy said, that track is extraordinarily hard to drive. It's nearly 13 miles long. It has crazy amounts of elevation change and bumpy roads and blind corners.
And these cars are just stupid fast and stupid rough. And like, you have to be a really, really good driver to get anywhere close to that kind of performance out of these vehicles. So, like, I have fun with them. I look forward to seeing new times and things. But, like, I just enjoy them as kind of like-- I don't know, kind of slightly competitive, like, backyard basketball between automakers.
It's like, it's not something to take too seriously. It's like, have fun with it, enjoy it for what it is, don't get upset about, like, perfect complete super hyper accuracy and things. I mean, like, it's good for everyone to be honest. But, again, it's not actually that relevant or important.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Is it wrong for me to say, I'd rather hit the nerve triggering in a Morgan three-wheeler than the Mercedes GT?
GREG MIGLIORE: That sounds dangerous to me, but, hey, I mean, by all means-- I will say this, I like-- as amazing as the super car and the, like, sports car records are, I like it-- I think it's funny when there's, like, a sport utility vehicle or a crossover record, air quotes, that they'll roll out there. You're like, well, that's interesting. Why did they do that? Well, OK.
You know who I would sort of give credit to or maybe blame is when Chevy was getting the C8 sort of ready for launch in that sort of extended rollout, it seemed like that car was on the ring all the time. And it seemed like they almost like made everybody like, oh, hey, we should be going for some records over here again. But that's why I don't know, give credit or blame, like I said, tp Chevy for getting people excited about ring times again. Should we spend some money?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Sure.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Let's do it.
GREG MIGLIORE: This is from Dave in Stuttgart. He's writing to us again. This is the gentleman we helped out with a CLA 250 shooting brake a while back. And he's got an EQC on order for March. So always happy to have a repeat customer. Now he's looking for a car for his father-in-law-- looking for a plug-in hybrid to replace his 2015 Ford Edge.
Situation is, again, he lives in Stuttgart, but the father-in-law lives just outside of Boston. You know, again, Dave's not fully up on all of the American options, but that's where we can help. So basically the options he's looking at are the RAV4 Prime, the Escape, which he is worried is going to be a little bit too small, the Explorer, an Aviator perhaps, the GLC 350E, Kia Niro-- that's an intriguing option.
A bunch other different options here-- I think this is funny when he throws in the Outlander-- lovable but old with four O's. Yeah, so I mean, a number of things going on here. But again, it's a plug-in hybrid to replace a Ford Edge-- looking to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $40 to $50 grand for something new. But if there was, like, a late model, hey, you know, that could work. The mileage, again, is 18,000 miles per year-- so a little bit of miles on the car.
He'll be able to charge this thing at home, so that's not something to be concerned about. And then the commute is about 25 miles into Boston, primarily long distance-- so looking for the hybrid element of this to be pretty strong. Oh, and this gentleman is 6'2 and golfs a lot. Sounds cool, maybe we can hang out. I wish I could golf, but it gets kind of cold here. Plenty of choices here-- a lot of detail.
Dave, thanks for writing again. Hope I got through all of that. But what do you guys think? Let's start with you, Joel. Go to you first.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so he's definitely done his research. I'm impressed. And I think he's got some good options here. So I honestly think that moving from an Edge to a RAV4 Prime would not be a big deal. The RAV4 has grown quite a bit. Both it and the Escape are a lot bigger than they used to be. And, like, the Escape plug-in hybrid I think would definitely be something worth looking at.
I would lean toward the RAV4 over the Escape. It has a little bit better range and it's much quicker. And that would be an area where coming from the Edge, which had reasonably sizeable engines with decent acceleration, the Escape might be a little bit disappointing. And actually, that same criticism could be leveled at the Mitsubishi Outlander. I actually think the Outlander plug-in hybrid is pretty nice. But--
GREG MIGLIORE: I'd agree with that, actually.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. Now that it's not the only option on the block anymore, it's got issues, mainly that the range is a little bit short compared with Escape and RAV4. And when it's running on full gas, it's not very efficient. So those are a couple reasons why I might rule out the Outlander in this case. I still think it's a decent vehicle.
And if you can find one used, they're getting pretty cheap, which is kind of nice. I would say that the Niro is definitely too small if you're concerned about size with the RAV4 and Escape, because the Niro is even smaller. And actually, X3-- I can't remember for sure if we do have a plug-in hybrid version of that right now, but it's also on the small side. But yeah, I think RAV4 Prime would probably be my first pick, maybe Escape second.
If you can wait a while, the Sorento plug-in hybrid I think would be a really nice choice. And the Sorento has always been sort of, like, this in between size between, like, Edge and, like, Escape, because it is a three-row vehicle. So it's a little bit bigger than, like, a RAV4, but not quite-- but not quite the same sort of size as, like, Edge. And from everything we've seen, the Sorento looks like it's going to be really nice, like, inside and out.
We haven't driven it yet, but it looks very promising. So if he can wait, I mean, I think it would be good to check out a Sorento plug-in hybrid. And the other sort of left field choice, I would suggest the Pacifica Hybrid, which has the benefit of being an American vehicle, as you mentioned in your description, that I think he'd like something from an American automaker. And I mean, we really liked our Pacifica hybrid that we had.
It's super spacious. It's really quiet and comfortable. It's got good range and fuel economy. So yeah, that's kind of where I'm at-- RAV4 first choice, probably Escape or Pacifica second choice, and if you can wait, check out the Sorento.
GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good. Jeremy, you're up. What do you think?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Well, I think RAV4 Prime is the right answer here. I don't think someone moving from an Edge is going to find problem with the RAV4 size wise or tech wise or, like, fitment wise. It's-- I actually have not driven the RAV4 Prime, but I've read all about them. And honestly, like, I think that's-- like I said, that's the right answer here. However, you know, I live to give different choices. That's what we do here. So the Explorer limited plug-in hybrid is a lot of SUV for a little over $50,000.
The XC60 T8 Polestar is a really fun, very powerful feeling higher-end European stylish option. But you're probably looking at more like $60,000 for that, even though it would not shock me if you find some dealers willing to deal with you. And here's my far out of left field, no one else thought of this idea-- the BMW i3.
It's more of an electric car with a range extender. It doesn't fit a lot of the things that you were talking about, but if you were just to ask me a person who commutes older, maybe likes premium things, needs a little bit of space and room to carry around golf clubs. The i3 hits all those things. I don't know how much longer it's going to be on the market.
It's currently on the market now. You can get it with a range extender-- so long highway trips aren't necessarily going to be a problem. It's not really what I'd recommend, but it wasn't on your list. And, you know, if I'm coming up with things that aren't on your list, that one popped into mind. But as I said at the outset, I think RAV4 Prime is probably the right answer here.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I would agree with that. I'll go with the hat trick here. I think that one is-- I think the RAV4 Prime wins, like, all of the areas, all of the criteria here as well. It's an interesting vehicle. You know, it took me a little while to warm up to the RAV4 in general. I liked the last generation of it. I thought they made it a little to-- it reminded me almost too much of a Jeep. Like, I like Jeeps. Jeeps are great. But it seemed like this was almost like-- it looked a lot like the Jeep Cherokee in my opinion.
It was kind of like, jeez, Toyota, this seem like a little bit like a rip off almost. But I've warmed up to it. And I think given, like, you know, just the technology, the interior is OK-- I think that would be the way I would go. Escape is intriguing, but I also find the Escape to be a little boring. You know, so it's tough for me to kind of-- like, maybe you might drive it and like the styling and that might be-- may be sort of your, like, turn on, if you will.
But yeah, I would say RAV4 Prime-- that's how I would go. You guys have some really wild off the board choices. But you know, I think the consensus probably lands there. So--
JOEL STOCKSDALE: We aim to obfuscate.
GREG MIGLIORE: There we go. There we go. This has been a pretty long show, guys.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: Not really. We want to be helpful, but--
GREG MIGLIORE: Like I said, what we'll do is we'll sort of confirm what you were thinking and then give you, like, five more choices to make you kind of, like, question like, well, they said this is good, but maybe I didn't think of this. So spend my money--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: None of us mentioned-- none of us mentioned that the Jeep 4xe's are on their way. So--
GREG MIGLIORE: They're on their way, yeah.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I don't know how quickly this decision has to happen, but would he consider a Wrangler?
GREG MIGLIORE: That's intriguing. I thought of that.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: They're fun.
GREG MIGLIORE: But I was thinking that the highway-- it sounds like it's a highway commute. Just commuting in a Wrangler maybe isn't perfect. But I mean, that wouldn't be fine-- 25 miles depending on the kind of road. It wouldn't be too abusive.
JOEL STOCKSDALE: And the thing is is that, like, I do like driving a Wrangler. And I do think the 4xe is going to be fine. But the thing is, that's such a big departure from driving a Ford Edge in terms of comfort and refinement that I don't think it would be the right choice.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Right. I agree. And I think that's why none of us brought it up. You didn't need a comment on my BMW i3 idea. What do you think of that, Joel?
JOEL STOCKSDALE: So I love the i3. I think it's a wonderful little car. I think it's super cool looking. I love the construction behind it. I love that it's all carbon fiber. They're really-- they handle well. They're sporty. The only thing is if he does any kind of, like, long highway journeys, that could be kind of a pain, even with the range extender.
I actually have not driven a range extended i3, but I have heard that the engine is a little bit raucous. And it's got a small fuel tank. So if you're doing a really long highway drive and you don't have time to do full recharges, you'll be filling up a whole lot. I feel like a lot of these other plug-in hybrids offer a slightly less compromised range of driving scenarios. You can do really long highway drives, but you also have enough electricity to do almost fuel free short commutes.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. Yeah, and the other thing about the i3, not that I'm dogging my own choice, but there is a speed limit as to how fast you can drive it on the highway when the battery is depleted. I experienced that myself on, like, an eight-hour drive in an i3 once-- range extended. But you know, I'm just going to counter, like, if it piqued your interest, that kind of thing doesn't happen all that often.
Like, the number of times that that would come into being an issue, very rarely-- maybe a couple times a year. So if you hate the idea, skip it. If you're intrigued by the idea, hey, look into it.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right. That sounds good. And if you're intrigued by the idea of the "Autoblog Podcast," please give us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Guys, it's been a long, very thorough show. Hope everybody out there enjoys this and has a great Thanksgiving. Be safe, enjoy some Turkey, and we'll see you in a couple of weeks.
[THEME MUSIC]
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