Automakers aren't happy about a California mandate that requires manufacturers to sell 1.4 million electric, plug-in hybrid and fuel cell vehicles by 2025. As such, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers and the Association of Global Automakers have filed a petition with the Environmental Protection Agency to block the state's mandate. Mary Nichols, chairman of the California Air Resources Board, chided car companies for "shooting yourselves in the foot," while speaking at the SAE International World Congress. Nichols also asked, "Rather than rehashing the same, tired legal battles of our past, why not work together to collectively support and develop this market?"
Of course, as Bloomberg points out, automakers can only comply with the plan if buyers want to bring home zero-emission models in high volumes. So far, that hasn't happened. "It serves no one, not the state economy or consumers or automakers, to have these vehicles sit unsold on dealer lots," said Gloria Bergquist, a spokesperson with the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers.


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    • 1 Second Ago
  • 62 Comments
      Car Guy
      • 1 Year Ago
      Bob Lutz said it best. It's like trying to fight obesity by mandating clothing manufacturers only make small pants.
        Neez
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Car Guy
        That is right on, except you forgot to add that those pants must be made out of rare silk only found in the coastal mountains of California. The price reflects as such on the consumer, clothing manufacturers, and makes it much harder for the poor to live in america.
        dukeisduke
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Car Guy
        In that case, Ms. Bergquist would be out of luck.
        avconsumer2
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Car Guy
        lol - wow. I had not heard that one. Thank you. Made my morning.
      karlInSanDiego
      • 1 Year Ago
      Happy Earthday Haters. Personally, I'm very glad CARB has the stones to clean our collective $hit up. We did it with emissions in the 70s (GLOBALLY I might add) and now we're leading with e-. If you don't like the fact that California is helping compel us to the next technology, then lobby your politicians. If you don't live in CA, then figure out if you're part of the problem or part of the solution and lobby your politicians. Either way the free market has given us no cessation in excessive fossil fuel burning. Instead it brought us SUVs, a renewed love affair with muscle cars that still get crappy mileage, and oil companies that quadrupled our cost to go to work in 10 years without anyone getting up in arms about it. EVs coupled with increasing renewables are the clear path to energy independence, slowing of global warming, and yes even the decrease in the price of precious dino fuel we have left for our classic cars when demand drops and Exxon is left standing with its drick in its hand. So stop railing against the maverick state that has the forethought to fix our situation with mandates. It worked for catalytic converters and it'll easily work for EVs too.
        SpitterGuy
        • 1 Year Ago
        @karlInSanDiego
        Instead of CARB requiring the manufacturers to sell the required allotted EV's, I think they should mandate Californians like Karl to spend the $22,000 to $87,000 to buy them instead. This way, the auto manufacturer's get the money they need to sustain themselves and the extremists get the green vehicles they want. Shame on the Karl's of the world if they would rather keep their gas vehicles.
        Rex Monaco
        • 1 Year Ago
        @karlInSanDiego
        SUV's were brought to us by government regulations. Politicians killed big sedans with CAFE and then gave business owners tax incentives to buy 'farm vehicles'. Both of these 'regulations' shifted business buyers away from sedans, towards SUV's. This is the same government that you now trust to solve our problems.
        car-a-holic
        • 1 Year Ago
        @karlInSanDiego
        Have you put your money where your personally glad mouth is? If not pay me since your soo glad that carb is nothing more than a crazy neo liberal shake down......
        GasMan
        • 1 Year Ago
        @karlInSanDiego
        Mr Marx in SD, have you put your money where your mouth is and purchased an electric vehicle? Or do you prefer to spend other people's money?
      Jason
      • 1 Year Ago
      Um, disband the CARB? CA no longer needs special emissions regulations now that the EPA has caught up. Emissions regulation is supposed to be strictly Federal anyway. I'm tired of having to look up CARB EO#s for parts. I hate these people. They kill the enthusiast community in California, find ways to kill the economy, drive businesses out with high taxes ... no wonder we're broke. The people voting are stupid, apparently.
      Tiberius1701
      • 1 Year Ago
      This from the most horribly run state in the Union...Balance is a word that does not exist in these extermists vocabulary.
        Hello, Brian
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Tiberius1701
        Certainly, that can be your opinion, but in real numbers, CA is not the \"most horribly run\" state in the union. While it defintely has it\'s challenges, looking at real numbers, there are a number if states that are worse off than CA is, and that also don\'t have CA\'s resources to improve their standing.
          montoym
          • 1 Year Ago
          @Hello, Brian
          Care to name a few? I'd be interested in seeing what you consider as worse than CA. Most people would agree that CA is definitely in poor financial condition and is only forecast to get worse as their deficits continue to increase. I'll even cite two separate resources which both place CA high on their list. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/states-suffering-worst-financial-stress/story?id=16811562#3 Quote - "3. California - Under current actuarial assumptions, says the report, state and local government pension funds are underfunded by approximately $1 trillion. Despite that shortfall, California and other states have continued to sweeten pension benefits, some retroactively, on the basis of assumptions that in hindsight were too optimistic. California's unfunded liability, based on the current market value of its fund's assets, is greatest of the six states: $135.8 billion. Illinois is next, at $92.5 billion." - http://www.nbcnews.com/business/best-worst-run-states-america-1C7332327 Quote - "These are the worst run states in America. 1. California Debt per capita: $4,008 (18th highest) Budget deficit: 20.7 percent (17th largest Unemployment: 11.7 percent (2nd highest) Median household income: $57,287 (10th highest) Percent below poverty line: 16.6 percent (18th highest) California is 24/7 Wall St.’s “Worst Run State” for the second year in a row. Due to high levels of debt, the state’s S&P credit rating is the worst of all states, while its Moody’s credit rating is the second-worst. Much of California’s fiscal woes involve the economic downturn. Home prices plunged by 33.6 percent between 2006 and 2011, worse than all states except for three. The state’s foreclosure rate and unemployment rate were the third- and second-highest in the country, respectively. But efforts to get finances on track are moving forward. State voters passed a ballot initiative to raise sales taxes as well as income taxes for people who make at least $250,000 a year. While median income is the 10th-highest in the country, the state also has one of the highest tax burdens on income. According to the Tax Foundation, the state also has the third-worst business tax climate in the country." - Do you have any data that shows CA as one of the best run states, or maybe not int he top 10 even?
          PatrickH
          • 1 Year Ago
          @Hello, Brian
          I'm curious to know which states have a greater amount of unfunded liabilities than California. Hell, you can't even find that many COUNTRIES with a greater amount of unfunded liabilities.
      Pj Taintz
      • 1 Year Ago
      I still think GM FORD Chrysler - BMW Benz VW Group should tell cali to piss off. If they ALL said they would no longer sell cars in cali as long as they keep making mandates and telling them what they have to build, cali would cave in quick, but then again maybe not cali politics are the worst in the nation
        methos1999
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Pj Taintz
        Unlikely, California is too big a market. Shareholders would likely go nuts if the companies collectively decided to stop selling to the biggest auto market in the US.
        domingorobusto
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Pj Taintz
        I definitely agree. Yes, it would be a big blow in the short term for the automakers to do this, but they have to do SOMETHING to get the morons in Cali under control. Telling California to shove it and just not sell cars there until they relax these stupid demands would be by far the fastest and most effective way to turn it around. Or they could just ignore their mandates and not pay the fines. See if they have any teeth. Just stay the course they're on and not pay the fines.
      Giordanetto
      • 1 Year Ago
      Tea baggers seem to pop-up when anything 'electric' or EV appears. So it's liberal to use home-grown American energy, yet the socialist Venezuelan oil you pump into your guzzler's tank is so patriotic, right???? Fox News should come with a warning label just like those cigarettes...sad
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Giordanetto
        [blocked]
          TruthHertz
          • 1 Year Ago
          The funniest part is that over 2/3 of the electric produced in the USA comes from burning natural gas, petroleum, or coal. The car isn't burning anything but the electricity used is burning something somewhere else. Electric isn't ready yet. When it matures, the market will move that way. But I don't have $90,000 to spend on the only electric car that I wouldn't worry about driving from a range perspective.
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Giordanetto
        [blocked]
      Timothy Tibbetts
      • 1 Year Ago
      Sadly, the economy, gas prices, etc have car companies making electric vehicles without anyone forcing them to. It's early technology still, it;s awesome to watch the future unfold in front of our eyes. Then the Government comes along and demands they make more cars then they can sell and now instead of letting the market work it out. One would assume the Chairman of CARB is surrounded by people who tell her what she wants to hear rather than actually checking the numbers and getting the facts.
      Neez
      • 1 Year Ago
      Stupid california leaders and politicians. They act like they are the center of the universe. Electric vehicles still aren't affordable and the technology still isn't there for many people like myself which drive alot. Hydrogen fuel cells are worthless because it costs too much to make hydrogen and it's hard to store because the element is smaller than any material used to store it. This administration is all about making laws with good intentions and poor research. I can't wait until the next elections.
        AB
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Neez
        Thanks for playing Neez: "hydrogen... is hard to store because the element is smaller than any material used to store it" I guess the hydrogen tank in my lab made out of steel is actually storing something else. Element size has nothing to do with ability to store it in some container. Problems with H2 include (a) it takes more energy to make it than it produces while burning with O2 to form water, (b) it likes to react with O2 - a lot (Hindenburg ring a bell?) and hence poses a safety concern with any storage device, (c) requires development of an entirely new infrastructure to produce, store, and distribute at the volume necessary to make this fuel viable long term.
      dukeisduke
      • 1 Year Ago
      The state of California will probably be bankrupt way before 2025, so mandates like hers won't matter.
      SpikedLemon
      • 1 Year Ago
      CARB needs to get over itself. It should, instead, look at taxation as a way to reward / penalize yet still allow free choice of vehicle. And the taxes could quickly help the Cali bankruptcy situation.
        Will
        • 1 Year Ago
        @SpikedLemon
        That is just what Californians need....more taxes.
          SpikedLemon
          • 1 Year Ago
          @Will
          Whine whine whine. If you paid UK prices: you'd be at $7.79 / gal. If CARB wanted to be effective at reducing emissions by reducing consumption: fuel costs on-par with Europe would be an easy way to accomplish it.
          avconsumer2
          • 1 Year Ago
          @Will
          lol - seriously. It's fun to learn how people think isn't it?!
        GasMan
        • 1 Year Ago
        @SpikedLemon
        A gas tax incents more sustainable solutions and lets the market work while factoring in the environmental and infrastructure costs to support all those cars. Unfortunately people believe that cheap fuel is their birthright.
          gibbs5988
          • 1 Year Ago
          @GasMan
          People always want to pay less for something not more. What do you expect? Do I want to pay $8.00 a gallon for gas, with 5 of those dollars being a gas tax? Hell no! Charging more than a 50% tax rate is ridiculous!
      car-a-holic
      • 1 Year Ago
      Hey carb; You are flatly OUT of CONTROL. You all deserve to be fired. If I were gov I would dissolve your personal finances to pay for the general harm you have caused consumers. If your not from sunny CA, then you don't understand. These folks have tried to confiscate people's cars before! (Smog2 initial plan) They want to outlaw convertibles because they can't be made with metal flakes in glass to help your AC run less. They are off the charts. Read previous AP, numerous press released and Autoblog itself. U can't make this ip
      Ducman69
      • 1 Year Ago
      I guess CARB doesn't care that every manufacturer to date is having to eat huge losses for the constant problems they are having with batteries. They also apparently overlook the fact that as of right now there is on average 1.3 DEATHS, not injuries, DEATHS per new electric vehicle launch as someone inevitably makes the mistake to touch the wrong thing on the 360V+ systems that are extremely dangerous compared to the low voltage systems on cars today. And despite selling these vehicles often at so much as a $10K loss per car AND my taxes being taken away from me by force to pay part of these electric cars cost (if given a choice, I would NOT), they are sitting on dealer lots. They have long-term resale (immature technology and expense of worn out battery replacement and all batteries for liability reasons are proprietary so concerns about sourcing too), reliability (especially in hot climates where battery capacity is diminishing greatly), and range-anxiety issues to deal with.
        Ducman69
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Ducman69
        And BTW, the miracle solution to the electric car woes, the A123 nanotech batteries turned out to not be so great. The company that was supposed to be supplying GM, Mercedes, BMW, and others has gone bankrupt and has been bought by the Chinese (now called B456) at a huge loss to tax-payer investment, and the Chinese are rumored to be getting the $10million+ still unclaimed by A123 from the government despite the fact that we're just paying the Chinese for US developed and invested technology. Electric IS the future IMO, but its FUBAR right now, and forcing a technology that isn't ready is screwing over everyone.
        m_2012
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Ducman69
        Where do you read this stuff? Please stop; its rotting your brain. 20 gallons of explosives, lead acid, 1800*F heat, 50,000 volt ignition systems, precious metals being burned into the atmosphere as catalysts, toxic chemicals being burned in the fuel and oil, explosives mere inches from your face and sides - and you are worried about common electricity? How do you touch the high voltage anyways - its touch proof!? You can hardly stick a screwdriver in there and if you can, you deserve it. But nothing would happen, the system shuts off at the source - something your gas car cant do. So far over 10,000 Teslas and not a single failed battery or death. Huh, wierd how facts work. Range anxiety? Can you pick another fantasy from 4 years ago to rant about. 300 miles last me a month and last the average comsumer a week. Quick being a dick and move closer to work.
          Ducman69
          • 1 Year Ago
          @m_2012
          That's from manufacturing, not from end-users of the finished product. Electrocution and fire are the two greatest dangers at present during the manufacture, transport, storage, and assembly of the pack in the vehicle. 300 miles is a great range, but electric cars that your average person can afford offer no where near that. The Ford Focus Electric, a car that with a petrol engine is considered a cheap compact economy car, is a whopping $40,000 and has a 100 mile range, poor performance, and a lowly top speed of 85mph. The painfully slow and expensive Volvo C30 BEV with its 80mph top speed is even worse off with a 90 mile new-range and the Smart FourTwo Electric 72 mile range with its 13.5 second 0-60mph performance. Yes, 0-60mph, not 1/4 mile time. And as any electric RC enthusiast, battery lawn equipment, cellphone, or laptop user can attest to, battery life diminishes constantly with use. Especially in hot climates, that 100 mile range is going to diminish every month. 40 mile range is considered "empty" where the emergency dummy light comes on in virtually every car, and that's about half the range of a $40,000 electric car in a couple years. ICE cars lose efficiency too, but minuscule and have about the same range even with 100,000 miles on the odometer. And what is this crap about moving closer to work? I can't afford to sell my house every time I change jobs (or in this case, I was required to switch offices even though I'm in the same job as did everyone else in the building), nor can multi-income homes as is the norm in this economy be so picky as to limit their job search to 20 miles from their house. Get real! Its a VERY promising technology, much more so than hydrogen IMO, but it is NOT ready for mainstream and forcing the issue is hurting everyone.
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