Volkwagen wants to be "the leader in electrification"

Official
Jan 9, 2013

Europe's largest automaker continues to talk big when it comes to launching and expanding its plug-in vehicle offerings in both Europe and the US. Volkswagen this week outlined its goal to become "the leader in electrification" starting with the debut of the e-up! city electric-vehicle in Europe this fall, Plug In Cars reports.

VW's Dr. Rudolf Krebs went further, saying that the German automaker set a goal of having plug-ins account for three percent of its global sales by 2018. VW's first US plug-in, the E-Golf, will debut stateside next year.

How VW will take a leadership role in electric-drive technology is unclear, as the company didn't reveal much detail beyond launching as many as six plug-in hybrids through its Audi division starting next year. Audi recently cancelled the A2 electric vehicle project. Regardless, Krebs said that VW, whose US efforts to boost fleetwide fuel economy have been almost exclusively through clean-diesel vehicles, would only be able to meet stricter emissions standards via electric-drive technology. In 2011, VW debuted its Think Blue program to push for more environmentally friendly transportation options and last year started testing the E-Golf throughout various US cities.

Volkswagen Information

76 Comments

Andrew Richard Rose
- 1 Year Ago
Kings of comedy !
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Giza Plateau
- 1 Year Ago
That's good material. Is it april 1st?
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DaveMart
- 1 Year Ago
' the company didn't reveal much detail beyond launching as many as six plug-in hybrids through its Audi division starting next year. ' The usual compete nonsense here, aside from the fact that 6 plug in hybrids from Audi is itself a major move. For professional journalism on the information, see: http://www.plugincars.com/vw-ev-chief-we-want-lead-electrification-125999.html#comment-25446 'He confirmed that the Volkswagen e-up! would go into production in mid-2013, and go on sale in Europe in fall 2013. The e-up!, a small all-electric commuter car, will not be sold in the United States, according to Dr. Krebs. An all-electric version of the VW Golf will go into production in early 2014—and will be sold in 2014 in the United States. The e-Golf and other future plug-in models will be sold in multiple U.S. markets, not just California.' And: 'A PowerPoint slide displayed to the five journalists in attendance showed a plug-in hybrid version of the Porsche 918 Spyder going into production in 2013—followed by no fewer than six plug-in hybrids beginning in 2014. That list included plug-in hybrid versions of the Audi A3, Audi A6, Audi A8, Audi Q7, as well as PHEV variants of the VW Golf and Passat. This lineup would be added to—rather than replacing—the VW e-up! and e-Golf that will be introduced in Europe in later this year.' And: 'Volkswagen plug-in hybrids will have about 35 or 40 miles of all-electric range' And: 'Dr. Krebs ruled out the possibility of VW bringing battery manufacturing in-house—explaining that relying on suppliers would allow the flexibility to choose the right battery chemistry and packaging, and to switch suppliers if necessary, as the technology evolves. He ruled out the use of commodity cells, which Volkswagen had been exploring. Dr. Krebs said that the use of commodity 18650 cells required additional housing, connections and parts that made them less cost-effective on a kilowatt-hour basis than automotive grade lithium ion cells.' So VW group in Europe and the US will be releasing a huge range of mainly plug in vehicles, with EV ranges of the order of that in the Volt rather than the Toyota PIP. VW has already redesigned all its platforms, so that they are capable of using electric, plug in hybrids, natural gas etc without intrusion into the passenger space or cargo area. So there will be Volt competitors on sale in the US likely without the central tunnel limiting passenger space and certainly without the severe capacity restrictions of the Ford offerings. Danny, without wishing to be rude, please get another job. You are in no way up to your present one.
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- Val
  
  1 Year Ago
  @DaveMart
  Dr. Krebs said that the use of commodity 18650 cells required additional housing, connections and parts that made them less cost-effective on a kilowatt-hour basis than automotive grade lithium ion cells... He probably knows what he is talking about, but no EV has been able to match Tesla in terms of range, power and internal space. At any price. So I am very curious how much would an audi with 85kWh battery pack cost, and what woul be the cost of the whole pack and how it compares to tesla.
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  - DaveMart
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @Val
    Thanks for the info on the size of the Tesla. I had not bothered to look it up, it just looks big. I would argue that the other cars you name are also too long for convenience, unless it is your Chauffeur's problem, not yours, and wide is bad in Europe's city streets, but no doubt it will sell as a status symbol. See my other post on the cost of plug ins. VW reckon they can do the plug in Golf for around the same as the GTi, although whether that is the top of the range one they are talking about, and whether that includes subsidy so that they are talking about US prices I don't know.
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  - raktmn
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @Val
    I looked at the size of the Model S compared to BMW's, and it was between the length of the 5-series, and the 7-series, but wider. I suspect that Tesla might have done this on purpose, putting the Model S in a nice middle between BMW and Audi's offerings. That would be a smart way to attract buyers that would otherwise shop all 4 of those models.
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  - DaveMart
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @Val
    Dr Krebs also said that they think that the way to go with the present generation of batteries is plug ins, although they will offer BEV as an option, but not with a huge Tesla style pack. The very long wheel base of the Tesla which is great for aerodynamics is not really suitable for European use, although of course some will choose to drive it and put up with trying to fight through City streets and parallel park it.
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  - Val
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @Val
    The GTI starts at $23k, no way they can make a plug in at that price, not with the current batteries, which they say are expensive. Golf R starts at $33, which sounds more like it. Toyota managed to make the Prius Plug-in start at $32... And this is a company that has amortized the costs of hybrid development across millions of cars. The only major difference is the much higher capacity battery. And by the way, smaller hybrid batteries like the ones in the PHEV Prius are more expensive per kWh because they must provide higher discharge rates, withstand more cycles and so on...
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  - Val
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @Val
    Model S is not much longer than an audi A6, although it sure is wider than most cars. 4,915 mm (A6) vs 4,976 mm (Model S). And it is shorter than A8, S-class and VW Phaeton. And there are plenty of those on the streets of europe. The problem with plugins is that to make them worthwhile, they have to put big batteries in there, and have a range of about 30 miles. Which means they have both the parts of a gas AND electric car, and are therefore expensive when compared to pure gas cars (Volt vs Cruze).
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- DaveMart
  
  1 Year Ago
  @DaveMart
  And details on the BEV Golf: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/03/egolf-20120324.html 'The production version of the E-Golf will be based on a new MQB platform (the “A7” Golf), rather than the current version (“A6” Golf) used for the prototypes currently in fleet testing, according to Mark Gillies, Volkswagen Group of America’s Manager, Product & Technology (and former executive editor of Car and Driver). One of the differences will likely be in the layout of the battery pack, said Gillies. In the current prototype model, the 26.5 kWh Li-ion battery pack (180 cells, 30 modules) runs down the center tunnel, beneath the rear bench seat and into the floor of the trunkspace. The E-Golf looks just like a current four-door Golf, with seating for five people. It is driven by an 85 kW (peak) electric motor that delivers 270 N·m (199 lb-ft) of torque. The E-Golf has an estimated driving range of 93 miles (150 km); however, the specific range will depend on driving style and factors such as the use of air conditioning and heating.'
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  - raktmn
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @DaveMart
    93 miles range without considering factors like A/C and heating suggests that the EPA rating will be lower. Probably closer to the Leaf EPA rating. Nissan claimed 100 miles range before the EPA rating hit them too. I was hoping for something better than the Leaf. Getting Leaf-like range at slower acceleration a number of years after the Leaf was released won't cut it. They need to think bigger.
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  - DaveMart
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @DaveMart
    The figures aren't final yet. VW tend to be conservative in their estimates. Personally as long as the battery is cooled better and lasts longer than that of the Leaf then it sounds fine to me.
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- DaveMart
  
  1 Year Ago
  @DaveMart
  An earlier post of mine on the Golf plug in: 'Price: 'According to VW, it expects the 2015 Golf VII Plug-in Hybrid to cost around the same as the new VW Golf GTi. ' Fuel Economy: 'Part of the key to its impressive fuel economy lies in the TSI engine, which can run on just one or two cylinders when power demands are low, allowing the VW Golf Plug-in Hybrid to run in a low-power mode if most of the power needs are met by its electric motor. ' http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1072832_2015-vw-golf-plug-in-hybrid-to-debut-at-2012-paris-motor-show Hopefully this might mean the 2015 model year, so the car might be available in late 2014. This is an interesting way of combining the range extender concept and a full-power motor. The current GTi seems to retail for around $24k and up in the US, so if VW can hit anywhere near that price they should sell them by the bucketload.'
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  - raktmn
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @DaveMart
    It will be interesting to see how good the MPG is once the battery is depleted. A lot of folks made a big deal out of the Volt's mpg. I didn't see the big deal, as long as you average 75% of your driving in EV mode each year. But it would be an interesting comparison given the TSI engine. I'm guessing VW is taking Tesla's lead on how they talk about prices, and the roughly $25K price will be the after $7,500 rebate price. The same way Tesla used to call the Model S a $49,995K car.
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  - DaveMart
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @DaveMart
    The mpg of an automatic Golf is given as 24/31 on the US site. The plug in will be heavier, but OTOH the battery pack helps out. That is quite a bit less than the Volt's 35/40: http://gm-volt.com/2010/11/24/official-2011-chevrolet-volt-epa-fuel-economy-released/ Maybe VW will be using a different engine or something though.
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Rotation
- 1 Year Ago
More VAG talk. Talk. Talk. Talk.
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2 wheeled menace
- 1 Year Ago
Oh, another German car manufacturer changed ze tune on ze electrics?
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Michael
- 1 Year Ago
Welcome to the party VW, you're late but we're happy you finally showed up. After years of incessant prattling about how diesels were the way forward, they finally see the writing on the wall.
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- razorpit
  
  1 Year Ago
  @Michael
  The modern diesel surpasses an all-electric car in just about every category except in the tons of coal per mile. You are either a fool with money to burn, or you don't need a car if you buying an all-electric with 2013 technology.
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  - j
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @razorpit
    Motor efficiency on platform 3X for EV. Emissions EV. Handling and drivability EV. Quietness EV. Smooth EV. Torque EV. Operating costs EV. Flexible fuels EV. Acceleration EV. Initial cost Diesel. Confused? Razorpit may not have noticed that an all-electric surpasses diesel in every category except initial price.
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  - Ray Blackburn
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @razorpit
    Anything that makes explosions to propell a vehicle down the road is a waist of energy, some are to dumb to know it. ICE= Last century technology.
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  - razorpit
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @razorpit
    Michael, I didn't fail to mention PHEV's, you failed to mention PHEV's. I was simply relying to your post on all-electric vehicles. While it is nice to see progress being made on advance technologies such as this it is foolish to say supporting diesel was a dumb thing. It served and continues to serve an important role in an alternative to gasoline engines. Some may not like it, such as Ray who is in la la land, but the fact is it works, and it it is better than both all-electric or gas electric hybrids when you look at the complete picture. The payoff for the purchaser comes much sooner than it does for either or the two mentioned vehicles and without the environmental impact of having to deal with batteries down the road. And Ray, whether the ignition source is under the hood of your car or at the coal plant on the other end of town, it doesn't matter. In 2013 you still need an ignition source somewhere to release stored energy from either gas, diesel, hydrogen, or coal.
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  - TurboFroggy
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @razorpit
    @Razorpit, You are correct in 2013 you do still need a source of ignition to power a vehicle, however I prefer that source to be 92,955,820 miles away and of the fusion variety. Our two EVs are powered by the clean energy refinery that is on my roof, aka "a solar array". For $10K I have fixed my energy prices for the next 40+ years, there is no way to do that gas, diesel, coal or hydrogen. However you are incorrect in the "fool" to by a 2013 technology part. All it takes is basic math and knowledge of something called "total cost of ownership". To dismiss the TCO of a vehicle and think that you need to drive 300 miles a day IS foolish. http://www.pluginamerica.org/drivers-seat/why-plug-vehicles-are-so-inexpensive
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  - razorpit
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @razorpit
    OK TurboFroogy and J, I have to ask how many miles do you drive each day? And what happens when you need to go past your charge on any given day because solar technology hasn't caught on yet for charging a cellphone battery, let alone a car. And what happens when you have a series of cloudy days, or extreme temperature days being both hot and cold can effect battery capacity.
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  - Michael
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @razorpit
    And yet you fail to mention PHEVs. The bridge vehicles that should be pushed by the automakers while a BEV charging infrastructure is developed. I have no problem with VW talking up it's diesels, however it was doing so at the expense of any type of electrification just 2 years ago. Face it they jumped on the electrification bandwagon late, and that's all I was saying.
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MK2
- 1 Year Ago
VW needs a better speech writer...
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raktmn
- 1 Year Ago
Too easy to bash comments like this, so I'll just say "bring it, VW". Also, have I missed coverage of the E-Golf here on ABG? Because I don't remember hearing anything about this at all. Anyone have stats? Range? Charge rate? Price?
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- paulwesterberg
  
  1 Year Ago
  @raktmn
  Looks like a vehicle conversion(for testing - no plans for production)... no pictures of the cargo area because it is filled with batteries. If VW wants to be a leader in electric vehicles they could start by getting rid of the 12V lead acid battery.(hidden under a black plastic cover)
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  - Letstakeawalk
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @paulwesterberg
    "... so you agree that they are following the lead of tesla, nissan et al." Having further reflection, I'll say I disagree. Tesla and Nissan have designed single-purpose vehicles, that are and can only be pure BEVs. Great for maximizing the vehicle, but very poor for spreading out costs and making the actual vehicle cost lower. If VAG is imitating anyone, it would be Mercedes, who has also developed platforms that can utilize pretty much any driveline - BEV, FCV, PHEV, ICE, or nat gas. That means they can spread out the costs of development over a much larger pool of vehicles, and be more flexible in meeting market demand for specific models.
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  - Letstakeawalk
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @paulwesterberg
    "If VW wants to be a leader in electric vehicles they could start by getting rid of the 12V lead acid battery.(hidden under a black plastic cover)" You are aware that the Tesla Model S relies heavily on a 12V lead-acid battery? http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/11379-12V-battery-issues-%28error-messages-car-charging-problems%29
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  - DaveMart
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @paulwesterberg
    LTAW: My understanding is that the only one of their platforms that Mercedes is using for many different fuels is the B, which only covers the two smallest model. The C platform, and any others, I am not familiar with the exact details but I think there is one more, are not used for multi-fuels. Since the B-platform has been out since 2005 it is also unclear to what extent it was designed originally to do so, or has simply been adapted, which is a very different thing. VW OTOH has introduced a platform which covers all the range other than the smallest, as far wider range of cars right up to the Q7, and which was specifically designed for multifuel as well as to cover a wide range of car sizes. So AFAIK Daimler, although it is building on the B-platform a variety of fuel sources for cars, is well behind VW. Since I do not read German and likely the technical documents are in that language, I can't be sure about the info on Daimler. AFAIK though VW are the only company to have the platforms for the whole of their range specifically designed as multi fuel capable, as opposed to adapting some models.
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  - DaveMart
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @paulwesterberg
    See my post above. VW confirm that: 'The e-Golf and other future plug-in models will be sold in multiple U.S. markets, not just California.'' The first of their electric cars, the E-Up, in any case will not be sold in the US but in Europe, so the notion that this is for Carb compliance does not fly. They would not have totally redesigned their chassis for every car to make them suitable for electric and other drive trains if they were only interested in producing a couple of thousand vehicles to comply with Carb.
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  - DaveMart
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @paulwesterberg
    Nope. VW's chassis have has been redesigned from scratch to allow multiple power sources, including electric, hybrid and natural gas, with the exception of their smallest, which will have electric but not hybrid capability. 'The group's MQB architecture--which underlies the new VW Golf, the new Audi A3, and a large number of vehicles to come--has been designed to accommodate a wide range of different energy sources and motive power. Those include gasoline, diesel, hybrid, and plug-in hybrid models, as well as battery electric and, perhaps surprisingly, even hydrogen fuel-cell powertrains.' http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079446_vw-audi-porsche-lay-out-plug-in-hybrid-plans-paris-auto-show
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  - paulwesterberg
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @paulwesterberg
    @Letstakeawalk so you agree that they are following the lead of tesla, nissan et al.
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  - raktmn
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @paulwesterberg
    That sounds like yet another of the long line of CARB Compliance EV's. Ugh. I hope they have something better than that. Sub-100 mile range conversion cars are nice and all for dipping a toe into a small limited market. But for VW to take real leadership, they are going to have to go bigger than that.
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  - Letstakeawalk
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @paulwesterberg
    I do agree that VW is making great progress towards EVs, and I do believe that if they wanted to, they could be industry leaders. VW is certainly leading Nissan and Tesla on a variety of other drivelines, as well as the capability of building them in high volumes. I wouldn't dismiss them, as you seem to. "Looks like a vehicle conversion(for testing - no plans for production)... no pictures of the cargo area because it is filled with batteries." False assumption. There are indeed plans for production, as well as clear photos of the cargo area. http://www.greencarreports.com/image/100355446_2014-volkswagen-golf-blue-e-motion-prototype-ndash-copyright-high-gear-media
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- DaveMart
  
  1 Year Ago
  @raktmn
  raktmn: Here you go: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-57384759-48/volkswagen-ships-first-electric-golf-to-california/ 'The battery pack holds 26.5 kilowatt-hours of electricity, and the drive system output rates at 85 kilowatts. Volkswagen puts the car's range at 93 miles, and cites a 60 mph acceleration time of 11.8 seconds. Top speed is 87 mph. ' Note the unobstructed load space in the pictures. Essentially, whether you have an ICE Golf, a BEV, or a plug in, about the only difference you will notice visually is the label In Europe there will also be NG versions, it is likely, although it is not clear if they will also go to the States. That probably depends on how NG takes off there, including infrastructure. Germany already has 900 NG filling stations, pretty good coverage for the size of the country.
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  - DaveMart
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @DaveMart
    Hi raktmn. The US centric nature of this site precludes much attention being paid to events and companies in Europe prior to US release. If you are interested in an electric vehicle, I would certainly hang on for the Golf EV rather than the Leaf, as the durability of the Leaf battery pack is way below any of the others except perhaps the iMiEV, and VW have seen Nissan's troubles and are not going to make that mistake. The Volt is fine, but space in the back is restricted, whereas both the plug in and the BEV Golf should have the same space as the regular one, with the caveat that I don't know if they present Golf, let alone the version in the US, is based on the MQB platform so that they may be a bit bigger. The Tesla is in a different class, at a very different price. BMW and Audi are more like the competition for those, but the i3 apart both are going the plug in route.
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  - raktmn
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @DaveMart
    Thanks DaveMart, that sounds a bit more promising than what paul posted. Still closer to the Leaf end of the scale than the Tesla Model S end of the scale though. Not exactly taking the leadership position from Tesla. The PHEV's you posted info about certainly do sound like a very good Volt competitor though. Those sound more promising. Thanks for the links. I could handle a PHEV Golf or Passat for the price of a GTI. I'm guessing that is post-rebate price, after the $7,500 fed rebate, putting the price somewhere in the $25-30K range after rebate. That isn't too far off from what you can get a Volt for if you make a good deal on one, so that should be realistic by 2015 with battery prices coming down. I am disappointed I haven't heard more about these here on ABG.
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  - raktmn
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @DaveMart
    It will be interesting to see how the Leaf and the eGolf compare come 2015. It isn't really fair to the Leaf to compare the 2011/2012 Leaf to a 2015 car, considering that Nissan has also hinted at better things to come. Nissan actually seems to be taking the Arizona battery thing seriously now, so they should be able to get it fixed by 2015. My concern is that it will be too much like the Leaf by the time 2015 comes around. The BMW i3 and the projected Tesla budget-minded EV also due in 2015 or so will be some pretty tough competition for VW to claim leadership. Just mildly pulling ahead of the 2011/2012 Leaf by 2015 also doesn't fit that claim either. The bizarre thing about the Golf is that it actually has the best rear seat headroom and legroom compared to almost every other VW/Audi product (short of the A8). Definitely the anti-Volt in that regard. That bodes well for competing with the Volt. Thanks again for all the info dumps you've put throughout this blog. Good stuff.
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Aaron
- 1 Year Ago
Leader in electrics? I thought the Germans were better at gas... (ducks)
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- Letstakeawalk
  
  1 Year Ago
  @Aaron
  A terribly offensive joke, at the expense of Holocaust victims.
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  - Marcopolo
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @Letstakeawalk
    @ Letstakeawalk Doubly offensive, as it's also at the expense of post war Germans, and all victims of the Nationalist Socialist regime, including thousands of ordinary German anti-nazi's. .
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- raktmn
  
  1 Year Ago
  @Aaron
  oooohhhh that's a bad joke. Very bad joke. +1
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- Spec
  
  1 Year Ago
  @Aaron
  Is that a Fritz Haber joke? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber
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  - Aaron
    
    1 Year Ago
    
    @Spec
    Isn't that the guy on Pawn Stars?
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rcavaretti
- 1 Year Ago
They want to lead in electric cars? LOL. Before they go electric, they first need to solve all the electrical gremlins present in their current designs.
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- Spiffster
  
  1 Year Ago
  @rcavaretti
  Exactly what I was thinking, the proposition of an electric car from any German automaker (especially VW) has me a bit worried.
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- DaveMart
  
  1 Year Ago
  @rcavaretti
  According to a UK car reliability guide, the VW Golf ( the normal version) has 10.51% of its faults due to electrics: http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/247 Worryingly for the Renault Zoe, which is now being released, Renault in their Clio model, which is more or less a combustion engine version of the same thing, has a staggering 51.06% of its faults due to electrics!: http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/172 Even worse, the Nissan Note has a 58.83% if its faults on electrics!: http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/147
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DaveMart
- 1 Year Ago
More on the MQB Platform and the Golf variants here: http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/de/talks_and_presentations/2012/10/Volkswagen_Golf7_Launch.bin.html/binarystorageitem/file/2012-10-08+Golf+VII_Presentation_Website.pdf On page 32 it shows that both an electric Golf and a Natural gas version are due to be released. The plug in hybrid is scheduled for 2014. In other links I have given it is clear that it will have similar EV range to the Volt, but without the battery in the middle of the cabin or load space intrusion. The price is aimed to be around that of the Golf GTi. Since they are not themselves building the battery and they will have noted Nissan's troubles it is inconceivable to me that they are not specifying the batteries to last around as long as the car with a decent percentage of the original range. They have around 500 being tested on the road at the moment, so should have plenty of time to check that the they do not degrade unduly in hot climates. The release will be right across the US, not just in selected states like California.
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- DaveMart
  
  1 Year Ago
  @DaveMart
  S/be: 'On page 32 it shows that both an electric Golf and a Natural gas version are due to be released in 2013.
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diffrunt
- 1 Year Ago
I'd buy this just to enjoy it's clean line design.
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