Tesla Motors has announced European pricing for the Model S all-electric luxury sedan and has given a time frame for first sales of both left-hand and right-hand-drive versions across the Pond.

Tesla is giving the Model S vehicles earmarked for the Netherlands a base price of about $96,000 and a Performance version of about $129,000. The company said on its blog that the prices, which mark about a $30,000 premium on US versions, factor in transportation costs, import duties and other "minor business expenses" and factor out the $7,500 US federal tax credit. In explaining the price jump, George Blankenship, Tesla vice president of worldwide wales and ownership experience, writes, "Our goal is to make the same level of profit per car no matter where it is ultimately delivered around the world. We do not think it is right to seek higher profits from customers in some countries just because other companies do." Take that, other companies.

European left-hand-drive vehicles will go on sale in the late spring, while UK right-hand drive units will start being produced by the end of the year. Last week, Tesla said it was about to open its European Distribution Center in Tilburg, Netherlands, and would start bringing in parts ahead of European distribution. Last month, the company priced the Model S for the US next year, boosting the price tag by $2,500 to a base of $59,900 and a top-end maximum of $94,400. European buyers can take advantage of the pre-increase price by placing an order before the end of the year.


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    • 1 Second Ago
  • 31 Comments
      Nick
      • 2 Years Ago
      Making your prices in accordance to how much you want to profit is unusual.
      Giza Plateau
      • 2 Years Ago
      100 million dollar loss from Europe too? That's too much :)
        kEiThZ
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Giza Plateau
        Put your money where your mouth is and short the stock if you really believe what you're saying.
        Grendal
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Giza Plateau
        LTAW is complaining that they are making too much money and you, Giza, are complaining that they are losing money. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between.
          Grendal
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Grendal
          My initial instinct is to give a rude response, but I'll avoid that. Up until now Tesla was building the infrastructure for manufacturing their car. They had to hire people, buy buildings and equipment, buy raw materials, find vendors, and build test vehicles to confirm their ideas. All of that cost money with no return. They then spent six months ramping up to full production. Money becomes cash flow positive only at full production and until that point you are losing money. They began full production two to three weeks ago. If you are basing any of your conclusions from anything other than the last two to three weeks then you are using outdated data that is close to worthless at this point. Tesla is making 400 to 500 cars a week that are valued at an average of $90K each. That's $36 million a week in revenue at the low end. In a quarter, they generate $450 million approximately. That doesn't mean that something can go wrong and then, yes, they will be in trouble. But right now Tesla is doing exactly what it has always said it was planning on doing, and that is making cars.
          Giza Plateau
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Grendal
          Their financial results are published every quarter which is required by law for puclically traded companies. They are indeed losing enormous sums so there is no need to guess. They claim to be some kind of cash flow positive now but I expect that to be only in the narrowest of senses meaning not for the company as a whole so they will still be losing enormous sums. Leading to bankruptcy. It could be months away.
      raktmn
      • 2 Years Ago
      Next year the cheapest Model S will be $62,495 without tax rebate. That is the exact same price as a BMW 550i right now costs $135,000 dollars (102,000 Euros) in the Netherlands. I think folks in the Netherlands are getting quite a good deal at just $96,000 dollars compared to what BMW's cost over there. You have to realize that the Netherlands is one of the most expensive car markets in the world in the first place, regardless of who the car maker is. Even a base level 5-Series 528i is over $70K USD over there. Also, don't be fooled, your price for a car isn't just the MSRP either in most states. You still have to pay state taxes, where these prices include tax.
        Grendal
        • 2 Years Ago
        @raktmn
        Europe has VAT that is supposed to be included in the quoted price. The US always shows prices without the tax but you still have to pay the tax on top of the price.
        fsfikke
        • 2 Years Ago
        @raktmn
        The thing is that the 550i is a car that doesn't sell at all in the Netherlands. In part because of a CO2-based tax that is extremely unfavourable for cars like the 550i that spits out CO2's by the tons. Of that $135.000, $25k is extra CO2-tax. For those $63.000 you get a great Tesla S in the US you only get a entry-level, 4-cilinder 520d, or, something also available get in the US, a 328i. European cars that are shipped half way around the world always end up costing 60% of what they cost in the country of origin. Too bad it doesn't work the same the other way around :P
      Grendal
      • 2 Years Ago
      Tesla reservation list was at 16,128 on 12/19/12. And since tomorrow is the end of the world, it doesn't matter much anyway.
      Letstakeawalk
      • 2 Years Ago
      Here's an unfortunate opinion: " Given the ugly state of Tesla’s finances — and the company’s sky-high valuation: almost $4 billion — it will rank among the top candidates in Silicon Valley for a 2013 stock collapse, unless it receives significantly more cash next year. The Palo Alto, Calif., company’s financials are, in fact, in worse shape even than such high-profile Internet IPO flameouts as Zynga and Groupon." " As of Sept. 30, Tesla had cash and short-term securities of $86 million, down from $280 million at the start of the year. That leaves Tesla with less than six months’ worth of cash, given that it burned through almost $200 million during the first nine months of 2012. Including its $159 million in automobiles — and smaller items such as accounts receivable and restricted cash — the company’s total current assets were worth $285 million at the end of the third quarter. That’s down 24% from $373 million at the start of 2012. CEO Elon Musk had thus burned through a quarter of his tank (so to speak) by the end of September, even while failing to deliver the production numbers promised to both customers and investors. That failure forced Musk in late September to slash by 40% Tesla’s 2012 revenue-forecast range, from one with a midpoint of $580 million to one whose midpoint is $420 million. Including its factories and other longer-term assets, the company held $809 million in assets at the end of the third quarter. At the same time, its liabilities stood at $837 million. " http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-will-need-more-loans-to-stay-afloat-in-2013-2012-12-20?link=home_carousel
        Grendal
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Letstakeawalk
        I will repost a telling comment to that article by James L. Miller Jr.: This article is a joke. "[Tesla] will rank among the top candidates...for a 2013 stock collapse, unless it receives significantly more cash next year." Tesla will do just that: Its Model S production rampup was at 200 cars/week as of 05Nov2012, and is on track to reach 400 cars/week by year-end. At the 400 rate, Tesla will easily make its 20k sales target in 2013. At an estimated average of $75k/car, this means 2013 revenues of $1.5 billion. Given the snowballing rave reviews and word of mouth, as well as at least 10x greater production capacity of the Tesla Factory in Fremont CA, there is a strong likelihood these sales estimates are conservative. Author Shinal repeatedly cites financial data from 30Sep2012--when Tesla was still in the early stages of its Model S production ramp, and revenue stream from its Model S was a tiny fraction of its $1.5 billion 2013 target. He completely ignores this revenue, and the 400 cars/week target Tesla is on track to achieving. And ignoring is the word--it's not a matter of having only information before 30September--he cites the 03Dec2012 CEO tweet of cash flow positivity. "11th-hour visit to an investment bank in hopes of drumming up a rescue operation." This worry had been raised by prolific anti-Tesla blogger John Petersen and others. It turned out to be a non-issue. TSLA had a $193M secondary offering 28Sep2012, at $28.25/shr, a miniscule 0.8% discount to the previous day's closing market price. Yet Shinal is spreading FUD it will happen again, somehow in the face of billion dollar 2013 revenue. "one of Tesla’s chief rivals, Fisker Automotive, said in early December that it had hired investment bankers to help it raise more cash." Not comparable--Fisker's Karma is a a hybrid rather than true electric, has had at least one recall, and many production problems, unlike Tesla, and has been reviewed by the press and Consumer Reports as a much less competitive vehicle vs. the Tesla Model S. "... a lousy level of customer service " Tesla has rave reviews for its customer experience. Shinal has inexplicably extrapolated Tesla's 5% price increase--a direct result of surging demand and prudent managements' taking advantage of this--and demand outstripping supply causing long waiting times for delivery--as bad customer service. Throughout, Shinal infuses pithy FUD: "Tesla is awash in red ink", "2013 stock collapse", "That’s about as dot-com-esque as things get", "Internet IPO flameouts as Zynga and Groupon." This isn't journalism. It's harmful disinformation to WSJ/Marketwatch readers.
          Grendal
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Grendal
          I used James rebuttal so I didn't have to rewrite all that. Then the commenting system ate that post for over 30 minutes so I went ahead and wrote my shorter response... And I actually think that Tesla's customer service is both spectacular from what I've read from customers and lousy at times from other customers. Sometimes it's from the same customer for both spectacular and lousy. So I agree with the article and James.
        Grendal
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Letstakeawalk
        They are now at full production. That entire article assumes they are at the production level they had in Q3. If they hadn't ramped up then all the doomsaying of the article might be useful. This quarters numbers, Q4, should be useful in seeing where they are headed, but it won't be until Q1 of next year that we will really see whether they are headed for longterm viability or not.
      Peter Muller
      • 2 Years Ago
      Well folks I travelled up to see the Model S in Holland (I live in Belgium) Loved the car and sat back and waited for the price to be announced. Even though I can afford to "Buy" the car, and I would, I cant afford to own it... Our idiotic government has hit ALL owners of company cars with a lovely little tax, nicely called "advantage in kind". Its based on the theory that, company cars are used for private driving as well, so should be added to your salary. The calculation is based on the sticker price at the time of purchase, and never goes lower than 60 percent, no matter how old the car is. For the TESLA I would need to pay about 8000 Euro EVERY YEAR I owned it... Need I say more.. no incentives here. I will be looking at the SMART ED.
        • 1 Year Ago
        @Peter Muller
        Peter I am making a documentary about EVs I would love to interview you...Brussels good for you ? Contact me at cinema2008@europe.com Howard
        Marcopolo
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Peter Muller
        @ Peter Muller Hi Peter, yes these sorts of taxes are really 'jealousy' taxes !
      • 1 Year Ago
      I do want to say that in the UK and other countries you get tax exemptions for a pure electric car. No road tax or London congestion charge for a TESLA in UK that petrol cars have to pay.
      EZEE
      • 2 Years Ago
      Import duties...VAT tax.... Good thing to see that the European govern,nets are taking their share to help the people. Glad that those governments know so much and are so valuable that they add this much more to the price. All derisive sarcasm aside...I just want to ask any number of people out there that believe in this stuff to explain how this is right. Import duty? For an electric car that helps save the freakin' planet? Value Added Tax.... I mean, I want all of you to save those words out loud. Value. Added. Tax. We tax, when someone adds value to something. We tax it when value is added. Not an end user tax. But taxing value. I hope that y saying that out loud you can hear the twisted nature of a concept like that. Now I know, I am mean spirited, evil, hate children rush limbaugh glen beck republican party, blah blah blah, but this system takes a fine car that is a technological feat, saves the freakin planet, and nearly doubles the price. Tell me again how this is so wonderful.
        • 1 Year Ago
        @EZEE
        It is not the entire thing is insane. It is also petit minded and shortsighted and will contribute to drought of ideas, developement and prosperity in a Europe that really needs it. I am way way to the Left of any European government or party but I consider such a tax to be a diabolical bloody outrage !!
        Marcopolo
        • 2 Years Ago
        @EZEE
        @ EZEE Import taxes or duties, are a very old form of tax on trade. The idea is gathering tax from merchants (usually foreigners) who have cash, rather than poor farmers who can only offer perishable crops or animals. The tax is rationalized by assuming if you are rich enough to purchase imports, any tax you pays must be on surplus wealth, so the tax is only a tax on surplus. Later import duties (Taxes) were used to protect local producers in their domestic market. VAT, (or in Australia, GST) is a tax created to consolidate a whole range of old taxes, such as stamp duty, sales tax, luxury goods taxes, etc. Like all taxes, this stated out a good idea since it became much simpler. But, over time other new taxes crept back into existence! Death and taxes, are the only certainties ! ( evade the latter, and experience the former).
      Ugo Sugo
      • 2 Years Ago
      I am moved in hearing that they are not taking advantage of the poor European customer. Which means that a performance version will set me back just 100K Euro + 21% VAT, or almost 160K US$! Pretty much the same as an US customer is paying! Or not?
        Nick Kordich
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Ugo Sugo
        You don't add VAT to the European price. The European price includes the 21% VAT and 10% import duty. Excluding taxes (and tax credits), the base Model S Performance is very close in price on either continent: The 2013 European price is 97.550€. Factoring out the import duty and VAT, then converting from Euros at today's rate ($1.32 = 1.00€), I get a pre-tax price of $98,294.66 The 2013 American pre-tax price is $94,900 plus delivery costs of $1170. That leaves $2224.66 to cover the cost of transporting the car across the Atlantic and Europe, including includes insurance against such things as the shipping dock being swamped by storm surge during a hurricane. It also includes any modifications to accommodate the European market. The equipment list remains the same, but there will be changes, such as three-phase support. It doesn't cover revenue they might have received from CARB credits had they sold the car in the US (sale of Roadster CARB credits added up to $13.8 million) or the additional costs that may arise as a result of currency fluctuation.
      Letstakeawalk
      • 2 Years Ago
      "...We do not think it is right to seek higher profits from customers in some countries just because other companies do." Although, they're still happy to ask for twice the profit as other companies. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi all make profits in the 10-12% range. "On the earnings call, Tesla chief executive Elon Musk said the company was on track to produce more than 20,000 Model S sedans in 2013. “I think we will exceed 20,000 units and we will exceed 25% gross margins,” he said. “That’s what you should hold me to.”
        JakeY
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Letstakeawalk
        That's average profits (in BMW/Mercedes/Audi case includes low profit cars like the A3, 1 series, A-Class which drag down profit margins significantly). But if look per option case, Tesla may not make a 25% profit, esp. on the smaller packs. They only average that with a mix of different options. Overall, Tesla is aiming at Porsche (which makes gross margins above 25%). They have to, since their volume is not that high, so they have to operate like a lower volume company (esp. if they ever hope to make an overall profit after overhead costs and to have funds left for the gen III car).
        Grendal
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Letstakeawalk
        I agree with Jake Y. You're being grossly unfair to Tesla comparing them to companies that have 90 to 100 years of existence more than Tesla. They make hundreds of thousands of cars a year with factories, manufacturing lines, and vendors that have worked with them for decades. Tesla has built what little it has for the Model S since 2009. 25% is the gross margin for the car. Profits are likely in the same range as the companies you mention. Tesla has been very up front with their plans and what they intend to do. It's going to be very costly to build the Model X line and then move on to the Gen III car. Tesla is still an underdog and will be for many years and possibly even decades. They have only one car they make. A much closer analogy to Tesla is MacLaren, Ferrari, and Lambourghini. There is no way that those companies/subdivisions are working with a 10% to 12% profit range. Sorry for the rant but there is no way that the car biz is an even playing field. That's why there have been no serious contenders in over 50 years.
          JakeY
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Grendal
          @Letstakeawalk You missed the point completely: Gross margins (what Elon explicitly was talking about) are NOT the same as "profits" (AKA operating or EBIT margin)! Gross margin does not include corporate overhead (only includes labor and parts). Clear example: Porsche's overall operating "profits" were ~10-16%, but they made ~30-40% gross margins on their cars from 1998-2003 (pg 9). Latest figures place Porsche as much as 50+% gross margins. http://business.fullerton.edu/finance/jgreco/fin570/Case7_Porche.pdf BMW's gross profit margin was 21% for Q2 2012 (page 16). http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/investor_relations/finanzberichte/zwischenberichte/2012/0612/_pdf/Q2_2012_BMW_Group_engl_Online.pdf Mercedes's gross margin was 27.5% for 2010: http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2010/07/29/booming-benz-drives-upside-for-daimler/ Yes, overall operating profit margins do tend to settle around 10%, but that's explicitly NOT what Elon was talking about.
          raktmn
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Grendal
          LTAW, you are not correct. An 8-13% profit margin on the company would equate pretty closely to a 25% gross margin per unit in a smaller manufacturer. You've actually unwittingly proven exactly the opposite of what you thought you were proving.
          Letstakeawalk
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Grendal
          " A much closer analogy to Tesla is MacLaren, Ferrari, and Lambourghini. There is no way that those companies/subdivisions are working with a 10% to 12% profit range." Here's Ferrari's profit for 2012: "The legendary Italian supercar maker said that it achieved net profit of $194 million on revenues of $2.24 billion, a new record." That's about 8%, am I correct? http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2012/11/ferrari-profits-rise-on-record-sales McLaren made £22.9m profit on £172.3m in revenue. That figures to around 13%. http://www.pitpass.com/48121-McLaren-races-off-with-23m-profit I'm not knocking Tesla for trying to make maximum profits as fast as possible. Indeed, I'm all for it - if they can get their price (and they certainly seem able to) then there's no reason not to charge as much as the customers will bear. OTOH, it seems really skeezy to me for Tesla to frame themselves as *not* being profit motivated. The statement regarding "other companies" going after profits while implying that Tesla is somehow making a sacrifice is just not the case.
          Grendal
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Grendal
          I've pointed it out on TMC and here that Tesla is a business even commented they like to paint themselves as their customer's friends. That's not true. Tesla is a business and if they are out to make a buck like any other business. In many ways I'm glad that's true because then they have the chance of succeeding. Before I liked Tesla and wanted one, I wanted an Aptera. Great idea that was run into the ground because the guy running the company was a terrible businessman. In the bigger picture I think that Tesla is doing a good thing but I still expect them to act like any other business. So, LTAW, that was my long winded way of saying I agree that Tesla was painting themselves as somehow more noble than those "other" companies. But it's all part of their marketing to their customers. Or business as usual for a business.
        raktmn
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Letstakeawalk
        When Tesla gets into mass production, we'll see that gross margin fall. Because net profits can stay just as high even on lower gross margins if there is enough volume.
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