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So, you're a regular AutoblogGreen reader and think you can't learn much from an infographic called "Green Cars 101," right? Well, how about this little tidbit: in a compressed natural gas car, the fuel is "compressed to less than 1 percent of its volume." Or this: "A small solar energy system (1 to 2 kW) can provide 15,000 electric miles a year" to your plug-in car.

Those are just two of the pieces of information in the Green Cars 101 image from One Block Off The Grid. Most of the rest, admittedly, will be quite familiar to readers, but easy-to-understand information dumps like this are good to keep on hand to share with people who are just getting started in knowing their PHEVs from their BEVs.

See the full image below.

Home Solar Power Discounts - One Block Off the Grid


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  • 25 Comments
      • 2 Years Ago
      Yet.
      • 2 Years Ago
      The source article mentions this about the Fuel Cell Electric Hybrid Vehicles (“FCEVs”): "Cons" "Fuel-cell cost, life cycle, and reliability" Let's address now the "cost, life cycle, and reliability" issues: "The Business Case for Fuel Cells: Why Top Companies are Purchasing Fuel Cells Today" (This report is about fuel cells in general, thus not only in automotive use, but clearly answers the cost, life cycle, and reliability issues in an authentic way based on real life data.) "Introduction – Why Fuel Cells?" Fuel cells generate electricity with low to zero emissions and provide not only environmental savings, but also productivity improvements: time, cost and manpower savings. No other energy generating technology offers the product range and combination of benefits that fuel cells can." "Power Quality" "Fuel cells generate high quality electricity power which is extremely important for mission critical applications such as banking operations and data centers. These businesses require a power supply that is free of the surges, spikes and outages that can disrupt transaction processing and can cost a company millions of dollars per hour. ...analysis of fuel cells operating at a Nebraska bank have shown their system is capable of delivering power at 99.999995% availability, while the utility power grid is less than 99% reliable." "... not to mention the ever-growing demand for power, there is an increasing need for more reliable power than is available from the current electric grid or battery backup systems... Fuel cells are also extremely durable, providing power in sites that are either hard to access or are subject to inclement weather." "Study by Battelle for the U.S. Department of Energy (DoE), assessed the market opportunity for fuel cells... The report found that fuel cells offer lower lifecycle costs than batteries... Fuel cells offer longer, continuous runtime, have lower maintenance requirements, can be monitored remotely, maintain steady voltage, and are more durable in harsh environments. Another report shows that fuel cells are 32% and 35% less expensive than battery backup power solutions based on 10- and 15- year useful life and a five year battery replacement cycle, including tax credits. Without the credits, the fuel cell life cycle costs are 12% and 18% less expensive. http://www.fuelcells.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/BusinessCaseforFuelCells.pdf "Cost, life cycle, and reliability" issues answered.
        JakeY
        • 2 Years Ago
        Stationary fuel cells and stationary battery backup (which your linked report is about) is significantly different than automotive fuel cells and automotive batteries. Most stationary battery backups use lead acid batteries, which have low cycle life and doesn't perform well in cold temperatures. Automotive batteries are lithium ion batteries, which have much higher cycle life and performs well in cold temperature (esp. when liquid cooled/heated). In terms of "cost, life cycle cost, and reliability": Fuel cell cars even at the most optimistic projection of $50k by 2015, cost more than a BEV. Hydrogen fuel costs $8/kg at the cheapest today (from the recent DOE report). Even if you assume 70 miles/kg (which Davemart points out), it costs $0.114/mile. Given 34kWh/100 miles typical of BEVs today, that's equivalent to $0.33/kWh, much higher than the average price of electricity. From the same recent DOE report, the latest fuel cells have a durability of 1800 hours,equivalent to 108,000 miles before 10% degradation in power. The latest generation of batteries can reach 2000+ cycles or 200,000+ miles in a 100 mile pack. http://green.autoblog.com/2012/07/19/doe-spends-2-4m-on-hydrogen-station-research/
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          JakeY Bazillion studies concluded already, that both fuel cell cars and their fuel (the hydrogen itself) in the near future will be way cheaper than buying / recharging a BEV. Therefore, not too many people will do it (roughly an estimated max. 10%). You have to realize: the only reason why BEVs need tremendous amount of defense, because they have tremendous amount of shortcomings, first of all due to their batteries, while fuel cells mastered all the previous difficulties. That's why fuel cell cars will be launched soon - instead of BEVs - since defending BEVs forever became dead bloody boring. Just give up this terribly dull and ineffective defense strategy (i.e. repeating the same worn out defense stereotypes for BEVs) and try to somehow live in peace with the forthcoming fuel cells, since defending BEVs on ABG cannot stop the already scheduled launch of fuel cell vehicles and also cannot convince more people to buy BEVs (rather - due to its boring nature - it is becoming now effectively counterproductive), therefore, it's dead simply just futile (and annoying as well).
          GoodCheer
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          "From the same recent DOE report, the latest fuel cells have a durability of 1800 hours,equivalent to 108,000 miles" I don't think you can assume a lifetime average speed of 60mph. That just doesn't seem reasonable to me. That might apply to the most highway-intensive individual trips, but over the life of the vehicle I doubt you'd find an average speed of more than 40mph.
          DaveMart
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          Wow! You can get a large car, powered by batteries, which have a range of 400 plus miles for less than $50k then, Jake! In the words of Gorr, I am interested to buy! :-) The rest is cherry picking from a snapshot. The DOE evaluation overall was that fuel cells were on course to be viable by around 2015 in terms of cost, durability and fuel. Anyone who quotes the DOE report to show the cost of hydrogen on the present small trial basis but does not note that the author's view is that in commercial use it would be way less is not using, but abusing, their report.
          Letstakeawalk
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          "Fuel cell cars even at the most optimistic projection of $50k by 2015, cost *less* than a BEV *with the same range*." FFTY
          JakeY
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          @krisztiant It appears you are showing your true blood. You keep claiming you are a neutral observer, that you see BEVs and FCVs in harmony. I think you are beginning to show that even yourself do not think this will be the case (you see BEVs dying, FCVs "winning"). "You have to realize: the only reason why BEVs need tremendous amount of defense, because they have tremendous amount of shortcomings, first of all due to their batteries, while fuel cells mastered all the previous difficulties." It's actually the other way around. All the governments and media are focusing their attention on plug-ins and BEVs. Compare the funding (billions for plug-ins, $100 million for hydrogen) and media attention (Google news shows 85k results for electric car, 6.4k results for hydrogen car). Heck, it's to the point where articles taking about hydrogen cars see the need to mention that hybrids and electric cars are all the rage right now (example here, in a recent article I read about Hyundai's Hydrogen SUV: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/autoracing/Hyundai+Tucson+Fuel+Cell/5615508/story.html). That's why the hydrogen lobby makes such a big deal when there's even a small peep that there might be interest again in fuel cells! http://green.autoblog.com/2012/05/22/obama-administration-rethinking-support-for-hydrogen-fuel-cell-v/ http://green.autoblog.com/2012/06/22/obama-may-be-charging-up-support-for-fuel-cell-technology/ "That's why fuel cell cars will be launched soon - instead of BEVs - since defending BEVs forever became dead bloody boring." I don't get the logic behind this comment. BEVs don't have to be launched soon because they have already launched (back in 2010, 2008 if you count the Roadster)! FCVs have never been launched and large automakers have been planning a launch since back in 2000! Personally, if nothing happens in 2015, I'm giving up on hope there will ever being an FCV for sale to the general public. But I'm willing to wait to 2015 for my final judgment. It seems you have already decided BEVs are not viable.
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          LTAW Not to mention: fuel cell cars even at the most optimistic projection takes - at least an order of magnitude - less time to refill, than to recharge a BEV with the same (or just about any) range. #fixedthatforjakey
          Letstakeawalk
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          "Of course since the cost of a BEV scales with range, any fuel cell car will have an advantage when compared on a $/range basis." Which is exactly why automakers are planning BEVs for short-range commuters, and FCVs for longer-range mid-size and up cars.
          JakeY
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          @Letstakeawalk Of course since the cost of a BEV scales with range, any fuel cell car will have an advantage when compared on a $/range basis. A fuel cell car with the same *power* as a BEV will also cost more than a BEV (since cost of a fuel cell car scales with power: $/kW), but that is not the basis for my comment. My basis is that the *cheapest* AKA typical fuel cell car will cost $50k by 2015, simply because even at the lowest power requirement (~80kW system-wide) regardless of range, that is what it will cost. A typical BEV today (the Leaf) costs $35-$40k, and you can get the iMIEV under $30k, simply because you can scale down range and still meet the minimum power requirements a consumer expects. Plus there is no equivalence in the necessity of range between a fuel cell car and a BEV. A fuel cell car needs that much range because it needs to be refueled in the same refueling cycle as a gasoline car (about once a week at a centralized station). A BEV is topped off at home nightly. @DaveMart Absent of any other report on current hydrogen prices, the $8/kg is the best figure I can find today. I'm not saying they will not be viable by 2015, but that compared to BEVs they are behind in these areas today.
          Letstakeawalk
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          (LOL)
          • 2 Years Ago
          @JakeY
          JakeY I didn't decide anything, but lots of reasonable studies did and maybe they also know something about the topic. But as you quoted my words of: "You have to realize: the only reason why BEVs need tremendous amount of defense, because they have tremendous amount of shortcomings, first of all due to their batteries" We also argued about the durability of batteries / fuel cells. Now let's see what's the otherwise very benign stance of the Battery University on this issue: "Is Lithium-ion the Ideal Battery?" "...Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. The battery frequently fails after two or three years. It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures. At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for five years in some applications..." Thus, whether the battery is in use or not, some capacity deterioration is noticeable after only just one year. This is not really a feature what consumers can get excited about. Then: The battery frequently fails after two or three years. Also not too promising and exciting feature. Finally: At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for five years in some applications. Wow. They can survive even for five years in some applications. But even if the battery pack luckily survive 5 years their capacity didn't (i.e. it will be way less). That's simply what my quoted words meant and that is the image what most consumers have about batteries too (especially as everybody has some gadgets to experience the great limitations of batteries). Also that's why even Apple Inc. seriously plans implementing fuel cells into their gadgets (filed several patents on it), since the batteries became the most painful limiting factors of all gadgets as well (just like my personal experience with them). Simply that's what I was talking about. #batteriessuck
        Spec
        • 2 Years Ago
        They could have made it simple: Cons: No one sells them.
        • 2 Years Ago
        JakeY You: "From the same recent DOE report, the latest fuel cells have a durability of 1800 hours,equivalent to 108,000 miles before 10% degradation in power. The latest generation of batteries can reach 2000+ cycles or 200,000+ miles in a 100 mile pack." DoE: "Based on the observed performance from this project, durability has significantly improved from the first generation (~2003–2005) to the latest generation (~2007–2009) of the technology. To evaluate progress on durability, it would be beneficial to gather new data on ~2010–2012 technology that would be representative of what is expected to be launched into the marketplace in the 2015 timeframe. " Thus, due to steady progress, fuel cell cars - at launch - will have even better durability specs, but since there is no analyzed data on it yet, this result is not representative of the actual cars on the market in the 2015 timeframe. And you also forgot to mention this: "Nissan states that after five years (or 60,000 miles) of use, the Leaf's battery pack will still retain 80 percent of its original capacity. " http://green.autoblog.com/2011/09/30/nissan-addresses-leaf-battery-life-replacement-costs/ So, after just 60,000 miles - as opposed to the fuel cell's recent 108,000 miles - the lithium-ion battery pack will suffer a significant 20% degradation which is a factor of 2 larger, than recent fuel cells (only 10%). But it happens under just almost half a distance, which puts the battery's durability close to a factor of 4 less than what current fuel cells already achieved. And that's a pretty big difference, what somehow you managed to forget mentioning. So I just did it for you.
      TPGIII
      • 2 Years Ago
      For some reason the diagram does not show the battery charger, power inverter and transformer in the PHEV that is shown for the EV. These components would be required in a PHEV too. The relative size of the components is amusing also. The battery in the PHEV appears to be 3 times the size of the EV. and the electric motor the PHEV looks larger than the engine, but he electric motor is the EV looks much smaller.
      Spec
      • 2 Years Ago
      Think City for $28K? I wish. Think went into bankruptcy and is not currently building cars. You can find some of the built ones for pretty cheap though.
      PR
      • 2 Years Ago
      FYI -- One Block Off The Grid is actually a sales lead generator company that makes profits off of leads deals with solar install companies. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But this is something folks should know before providing them with any personal information. They aren't exactly up-front about all of this. It also doesn't change how factual their sales material is, but anyone looking at this should understand that this is sales material for promoting products they make a profit off of. It isn't exactly scientific studies to be debated as if they were scientific studies.
        PR
        • 2 Years Ago
        @PR
        Oh crap! I just realized that I just posted about a Solar Panel company, while being "Coy" as Marco Polo put it back in the $5,000 dollar Leaf discount thread. According to Marco Polo's logic, I must work for a competing Solar Panel sales lead generator company, and I'm secretly conspiring against One Block Off The Grid!! I must secretly sell solar panels in between my job selling Nissans, and my job selling Chevy's!! Drat, I would have gotten away with all of it -- If it weren't for that pesky Marco!
          PR
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PR
          Marco, What paranoia are you talking about? Are you trying to say I'm wrong, and One Block Off the Grid is NOT a sales lead generator site?
          Marco Polo
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PR
          PR, I would call it paranoia that you continue to rant , even on different threads, about my fairly harmless inquiry ; "" PR, not wishing to be be nosy, but reading back over your posts, you seem give the impression of having spent some time employed in some aspect of retail automotive sales ?" You chose to reply with a series of posts containing thousands of words of indignant invective. despite my saying that it's an issue you find sensitive, forget it ! (but reading back over your rants, I see you never did actually answer the question candidly). What on earth is there to be so sensitive about ? There's nothing wrong with working in retail auto sales, nothing wrong with not working in auto sales either. As I said, If I were younger, and American, I would think selling GM's Volt, Tesla etc was a great job. Just relax ! It's not that important !
          Marco Polo
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PR
          @PR, You really must do something about all that paranoia ! It also should also be be noted that 'One off the Block inc" has a clean rating with both the California State Department of Consumer Affairs, and Better Business Bureau since incorporation in 2008.
      • 2 Years Ago
      Fail. CNG is still a greenhouse gas. CNG is not actually green.
      • 2 Years Ago
      You left out the Coda Electric from mid range EV's
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