Daimler talked about the start of production for the next-generation Smart Fortwo ED last week, but waited until today to give more details on the electric-drive city car (standard details here or below). With a bigger motor from EM-motive, higher top speed (75 miles per hour) and more range (90 miles), the new Fortwo ED has been upgraded with input from "extensive experience and customer feedback from various electric mobility projects," Daimler says in a statement. Smart head Annette Winkler says, "We have taken their feedback and wishes very seriously. The new smart fortwo electric drive represents a completely new dimension of zero-emission driving pleasure at a price that is really attractive."

The new 17.6-kWh lithium-ion battery (the second-gen one was 16.5) can be charged in seven hours from completely empty "at a household socket or charging station on the electricity systems of most countries i.e. overnight" (in Europe, anyway, where home current is often over 200 volts, or similar to Level Two charging). A 22-kW (!) on-board charger allows a "completely empty battery to be fully charged in less than an hour" from a quick-charging station. Smart and SPX will offer two home- (or work-) charging boxes – a basic and connected version – that both offer this fast charging. The only difference is that the connected version can get online.

The new Smart ED also looks different. LED daytime driving lights sit beneath headlamps that frame a larger grille. The doors are wider, too. Most interesting, the E-Smart can now be ordered in any of the colors that normal Fortwos are available in, but there is still the EV-exclusive green model. This upgraded package now comes with a brighter "electric" green mixed among the "crystal white bodypanels and white alloy rims." You can see all you like in the gallery and read more – about the new Smart Drive app (we hope in-car installation isn't still $300) – in the press release below.
Show full PR text
Zero-emission driving fun: Goodbye, filling stations – The new smart fortwo electric drive has arrived

Stuttgart, Jun 18, 2012

12 June 2012 – this date marks the starting signal for the first real alternative to the usual refuelling stops. With the launch of the new smart fortwo electric drive, in future smart customers can enjoy even more fun at the wheel of an attractively priced vehicle that has the familiar compact dimensions - as a coupé or a cabriolet. The most important feature distinguishing it from its siblings with conventional engines is the fact that it does not produce any emissions on the road. With its 55kW electric motor the smart fortwo electric drive accelerates from 0 - 60 km/h in 4.8 seconds, and with a maximum speed of 125 km/h driving pleasure is also guaranteed on urban motorways. The 17.6 kWh battery enables the urban two-seater to travel approximately 145 kilometres in city traffic without producing any local emissions. The new sale&care model makes opting into electric mobility particularly attractive: it offers customers an opportunity to buy, finance or lease the vehicle at an attractive price and to rent the battery for a monthly fee.

Extensive experience and customer feedback from various electric mobility projects were integrated in the further development of the smart fortwo electric drive. Ever since 1998 the smart has been revolutionising urban mobility like no vehicle before it. Compact, agile, environmentally friendly and stylish – it has evolved from a practical small car to a lifestyle product and has long become a familiar sight on the roads of cities around the world.

From the summer the smart fortwo electric drive will start winning wide-ranging buyers in more than 30 international countries for its innovative and forward-looking drive concept.

Dr. Annette Winkler, Head of smart, says "The smart fortwo was designed for an electric drive right from the start as our customers to date have already been able to experience for themselves in their daily use of this vehicle. We have taken their feedback and wishes very seriously. The new smart fortwo electric drive represents a completely new dimension of zero-emission driving pleasure at a price that is really attractive."

The new model is fitted with a 55 kW magneto-electric motor - the first product from the EM-motive joint venture founded together with Bosch – ensuring that it is as agile and lively as ever.

With torque of 130 Newton metres it accelerates powerfully from 0 to 60 km/h in 4.8 seconds, and thanks to better acceleration in the higher speed range it can sprint from 0 to 100 km/h in 11.5 seconds as it has much more tractive power than its predecessor.

This makes for speedy driving and overtaking. The battery-electric two-seater smart fortwo now has a higher top speed of 125 km/h, as well. That is putting it on a par with the combustion-engined smart – also on the motorway.

A battery from the joint venture "Deutsche ACCUmotive" with Evonik Industries is fitted in the new smart fortwo electric drive for the first time. With capacity of 17.6 kWh the lithium-ion battery enables 145 kilometres of pollutant-free driving fun. In addition to the higher battery capacity clear improvements have been made to the efficiency of the drive system, resulting in a greater range. When completely empty it takes a maximum of seven hours to fully charge the battery at a household socket or charging station on the electricity systems of most countries i.e. overnight.

Technical data – an overview

Electric motor (type)
Magneto-electric synchronous motor from EM-motive
Continuous output [kW]
35
Maximum output [kW]
55
Max. torque electric motor 1 [Nm]
130
Battery
Lithium-ion battery from Deutsche ACCUmotive
Battery capacity [kWh]
17.6
Maximum speed [km/h]
> 120
Acceleration 0-60 km/h [s]
4.8
Acceleration 0-100 km/h [s]
11.5
Range [km] (NEDC)
145
Charging time 0-100 % domestic socket [h]
7 (without wallbox), 6 (with wallbox)
Charging time 0-100 % 400V [h]
Less than 1

Quick charging in less than one hour

For the feasibility of quick charging it is possible to optionally equip the car with a quick-charging function. The 22 kW on-board charger enables a completely empty battery to be fully charged in less than an hour. A power cable is needed for this which is used to connect the vehicle to a public quick-charging station or a "wallbox" at home or work.

smart will offer this in future in cooperation with SPX, one of the world's leading suppliers of technology solutions in the fields of energy and automotive as a global installation and service partner, and with KEBA, a specialist for innovative E-charging infrastructure and wallboxes. If a customer decides to install a wallbox at home or work the smart Sales department will contact SPX. SPX will examine the local conditions, make an individual offer, and after a purchase decision, arrange for installation of the wallbox from KEBA. The wallbox is standardised and can of course also be used to charge vehicles from other manufacturers, for example if there is a mixed fleet.

There are two different types of wallbox: Basic and Connected. Both variants can be used for the quick charging of a single vehicle, or several vehicles one after the other. For private customers who want to charge up quickly and easily at home, a Basic wallbox is the perfect solution. It provides quick charging up to 22 kW and can be used both indoors and outdoors. The Connected wallbox also provides internet connectivity once linked up to the customer's web connection.

Furthermore, the Connectivity Plus system is an ideal solution for fleet customers. It enables up to 16 Connected wallboxes to be linked up to the "fleet server". This fleet server then enables several vehicles to be charged at once, all controlled intelligently and automatically. For example, certain vehicles can be given priority or a load limitation can be set. SmartCharging is also possible: economical charging and charging with green electricity (if the utility company provides the relevant data). This is financially advantageous to customers as they always have full control over their charging. The relevant charging cables are of course also available from SPX.

Attractive introduction to electric mobility

The smart fortwo electric drive makes opting into electric mobility very attractive with a new marketing concept. With the sale&care model customers can buy, lease or finance the vehicle at an attractive price and rent the battery. The rental costs include regular maintenance and, if necessary, quick battery replacement. smart also has a solution for all those who want to buy the entire vehicle.

In Germany the price for the vehicle with the sale&care model is €18,910 inc. VAT for the coupé and €22,000 for the cabrio. As well as this there is the standard battery rental charge of €65 including VAT in all sale&care markets. In view of the low operating costs electric driving is therefore a very attractive form of individual mobility.

National promotion programmes in many countries and various mobility benefits such as the use of special lanes or exemption from city congestion charges are further advantages of electric driving. With the attractive sale&care package and the significant technological advancement of the smart fortwo electric drive smart offers its customers affordable driving pleasure in daily use based on the environmentally friendly drive.

smart also has an attractive offer for customers who want to buy or lease the complete vehicle with the battery: including VAT the new smart fortwo electric drive costs €23,680 as a coupé and €26,770 as a cabrio.

Since the International Motor Show in Frankfurt anyone interested has been able to register on www.smart.com with no obligation to receive all the latest news on the new electric smart. In some markets, including Germany, France, Spain, Italy and the UK customers have been able to make advance reservations for a vehicle online – and these customers will be among the first owners of the new smart fortwo electric drive. A four-figure number of reservations has already been received – and a five-figure number of people have even registered on the smart website.

Fill up on renewable energies

Electric vehicles cut down greenhouse gases on a sustained basis, especially when they are powered by renewably generated electricity. This is why the company is supplying as much additional energy generated by wind power to the German grid as is needed to run all new electric smarts sold in Germany – thus supporting the ambitious climate targets of the EU. The energy needed for this is supplied by a new wind power plant on the A9 motorway, which Daimler has acquired in order to supply additional power generated from a completely renewable source to the grid on time for the launch of the new electric smart. Within the framework of this initiative Daimler is deliberately not taking up support measures from the German Renewable Energy Sources Act (EEG). With nominal output of 2.3 megawatts per year the onshore wind energy plant type Enercon E82 will generate enough green electricity to run the approximately 2,500 smart fortwo electric drives initially sold in Germany. Any power required over and above this could also be covered with electricity from wind power, without EEG funding.

A fresh green and even more colours

With a larger radiator grille featuring the electric drive logo, stylish LED daytime driving lights below the headlamps, wider door sills and several modifications to the rear the new model is much more dynamic than its predecessor. The new E-smart comes in all smart colours and colour combinations that are also available for the diesel and petrol models.

The new colour fresh green is a particularly visible manifestation of electric driving fun. The electric drive design package comprises crystal white bodypanels and white alloy rims, tridion cell and mirror caps painted in electric green and numerous green accents in the interior, which form an attractive contrast to the black seats.

Those looking to give their vehicle an even more exclusive touch can choose from the range of options offered by smart BRABUS tailor made - with an even greater choice of colours and materials.

Perfectly equipped

As to be expected the new smart fortwo electric drive features extensive equipment. A highlight is the fully automatic air conditioning with pollen filter and pre-entry climate control. When it is connected to the power supply the vehicle can be automatically pre-cooled or pre-heated as required for a programmed departure time. A new feature is the possibility to start the pre-entry climate control via the internet or a smartphone at any time. The standard equipment furthermore includes electric windows, a leather steering wheel, leather gear knob, the audio system basic, power steering, 9-spoke alloy wheels and a luggage compartment cover. In addition to the standard solid roof, a glass roof and a cabrio version are available. The trip computer – also a standard feature in the electric smart – shows journey information including the remaining range. And like the predecessor model the two round instruments show the battery state-of-charge and the energy used and recuperated. In addition, the smart fortwo electric drive can be equipped with a navigation system and a 3-spoke leather steering wheel.

Clever app for infotainment with smartphones

smart is the first car brand to develop its own drive app for the iPhone®. Together with the smart kit and cradle for the iPhone®the cult phone becomes a multimedia trip computer that is optimised for the smart fortwo in terms of function and design. The smart drive app for the iPhone® has all the important features needed whilst driving: phone calls via hands-free system, your own extensive music collection, internet radio and a clever navigation system with a special smart touch. There are also smart extras – for example the Car Finder that will guide you back to wherever you parked your car.

The new smart drive app for the iPhone®is simple to operate, for example thanks to extra-large buttons. The new app therefore makes urban mobility even easier and more fun - the declared objective of the smart philosophy.

Two new elements developed by smart make the two-seater car and the iPhone® a perfect team:

The smart cradle for the iPhone ® with control unit and microphone serves as a stylish and functional holder. It charges the iPhone ® and also functions as a hands-free system using the loudspeakers of the smart radio for sound output and automatically muting it when phone calls are made

The smart drive app for the iPhone ® is the world's first drive app on the market to be developed by a car brand. It combines all the features needed on the road in a single app. All the functions are extremely easy to use thanks to extra-large buttons and extra-large letters

Always know how far you can go: connected services

The smart drive app for the iPhone ® can be supplemented with further functions tailored to the smart fortwo electric drive. However, the current state-of-charge or the SmartCharging charge configuration can also be conveniently controlled and managed via a web portal from a home computer or with any modern smartphone.

The Vehicle Homepage offers every smart fortwo electric drive customer a chance to visualise the range on an interactive map with 3D views.

All the destinations that can be reached with the current battery charge are displayed. The public charging stations within reach can also be seen at a glance. If a desired destination is further away than the available range the Vehicle Homepage can be used to quickly check how long the battery still needs to be charged for to reach it. Among other factors, the depiction of the range considers the topography and the route profile. The intuitive graphic depiction that can be combined with 3D views and satellite images is an attractive feature. Furthermore, the vehicle itself can also become active: information on the charge status and range can be sent by email or Twitter messages for example. The driver is notified as soon as the desired range can be reached with the current charge.

Intelligent charging

The smart fortwo electric drive can be connected to the internet at home via a standard powerline adapter (Homeplug AV) for SmartCharging. After entering the planned departure time in the vehicle or the web portal the vehicle will be fully charged in a battery-saving and economical way. The smart fortwo electric drive also makes charging at public stations easy. With Plug&Charge the vehicle identifies itself as soon as it is plugged into a compatible charging point and the charging process is settled automatically.

"Electric history at smart"

With the start of the first electrically driven test fleet in 2007 in London smart also took on a pioneering role in the area of electric mobility when 100 smart fortwo electric drives took to the roads of the British capital – with great success.

With the introduction of the second generation in 2009 the smart fortwo electric drive was ready to take to the roads. The electrically driven avant-gardiste from Stuttgart was introduced in 18 markets. The objective was to gather as much experience as possible about how customers use and charge electric vehicles. The huge demand exceeded all expectations. Instead of the planned 1000 vehicles more than 2000 smart fortwo electric drives were produced in Hambach. This means that smart has one of the largest fleets of electrically driven vehicles on the roads worldwide and a trove of customer experience and wishes that have been input in the new smart fortwo electric drive.

A higher top speed and better acceleration at speeds above 60 km/h were right at the top of the customers' list of priorities. However, contrary to prevailing opinion the range wasn't the crucial point from the perspective of the test customers. The vast majority of users confirmed the results of surveys which say that people drive approximately 30 to 40 kilometres per day on average in urban areas and they expressed great satisfaction with the range of their smart.


I'm reporting this comment as:

Reported comments and users are reviewed by Autoblog staff 24 hours a day, seven days a week to determine whether they violate Community Guideline. Accounts are penalized for Community Guidelines violations and serious or repeated violations can lead to account termination.


    • 1 Second Ago
  • 57 Comments
      2 Wheeled Menace
      • 3 Years Ago
      I always wanted something that looked like a shoe, was expensive, and had limited range. You nailed it, Smart!!
        Schmart Guy
        • 3 Years Ago
        @2 Wheeled Menace
        In Canada it will cost $26,990, compared to the i-MiEV at $32,998 and the LEAF at $38,395. While not cheap, that's 6k less than the i-MiEV and 11.4k less than the LEAF. Spec, the EV cabriolet will start from $29,990. For comparison the ICE cabriolet starts at $17,890 in the US and $20,500 in Canada.
        Spec
        • 3 Years Ago
        @2 Wheeled Menace
        C'mon, we don't know the U.S. price yet. Yeah it does look a bit like a shoe . . . I wouldn't mind the Cabrio though.
      Exooc news
      • 3 Years Ago
      Priced surprisingly well.... €23,680 with batteries or just €18,910 with VAT when opted to lease batteries 60 euros a month. Even with batteries this is almost half a price of EVER cars... In october I tried second generation of smart.... this is my video after my first charging at cottage: https://plus.google.com/u/0/105427389435590421024/posts/McgnbHiH7WG I Loved it. With current free of charge charging in Czech republic offer from Power companies its dream come true.. (you have to just prove that you are owner of the car and they give you rfid card to charge for free from outlets like this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/105427389435590421024/posts/VqKnLh95eba
      Spec
      • 3 Years Ago
      They've done a good job of refining the Smart ED into a nice sensible city car.
      DaveMart
      • 3 Years Ago
      The ICE Smart is priced at around 12,500 Euros, so you are paying around 11,000 Euros more for the EV. Mileage is given at 60 mpg ( Imperial, 4.5 litres/gal ) So you are going to spend something like 1,500 Euros pa on petrol for 12,000 miles. You might use something like 3,000kwh for that In Germany at 20 Euro cents/kwh that is around 600 Euros pa. Things are a lot more hopeful elsewhere though, with subsidy available and cheaper electricity. In France for instance after subsidy it will cost around 18.5k Euros for the coupe, 6,000 more than for the petrol version. Overnight charging in France might cost 5 Euro cents kwh - I have not looked it up exactly, but that is the right ballpark - so you would pay perhaps 150 Euros pa for electricity. The cars should pay the difference back in 4-5 years. That ignores perks like cheap parking. Of course in London it will be congestion charge exempt, so there is no contest.
        Anne
        • 3 Years Ago
        @DaveMart
        The comparable version would be the 62 kW 13600 euro Passion (the cheaper models don't have climate control like the ED does). And then you're still at a disadvantage because it doesn't have an automatic transmission.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Anne
          The Smart four two Passion is listed as having auto in the UK: http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/smart/smart-fortwo-passion-84bhp.asp £10,500. I don't know about climate control.
        .cj
        • 3 Years Ago
        @DaveMart
        Yes. This is the little disappointment of the eSmart, because as mentioned before 19.990€ (incl. Battery) would have been the sweet-point for the first Electric Car which you really could buy with economical arguments (and not as image- or show-car). But it is another step in the right direction, isn't it?
          .cj
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          @DaveMart A comparable ICE Smart costs in Germany about 13.600€. But maybe i am wrong, because i've also included our rooftop solar in my calculation (without subsidy).
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          It's likely to be less than that where they have the subsidy, as my above post notes.
          .cj
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          @DaveMart "I doubt that is worth it economically in Germany with their power rates" We are running 3 Models or cases for EV to figure out when will it be worth economically. One of them has turned positiv with a 20.000€ eSmart (which was promised/advertised month before) and some other parameters . a) a commuter model (with e-related subsidy) b) a commuter & solar model; without any e-related subsidy (because here it is economically more intelligent to sell your solar energy, than to use it for your own purpose). Maybe in your opinion, this model is not valid , but ... OK. c) an office eCar solar model; without any e-related subsidy (but with some none e-related economic tax reductions) "but even better for other European locations with a subsidy and cheaper electric rates" Yes, you are right.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          I should add that exemption from equivalent tax charges to that on petrol is also an indirect subsidy. I reckon when petrol hits something like £2/litre in the UK electric cars will be fully competitive even if they paid an equivalent of that tax.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          @cj: Thanks for the info on the Smart price in Germany. I don't speak German so guessed the price at 12,500 Euros based on UK prices. It most certainly is not valid to include the price of a solar array in the cost of the Smart, as that is a totally separate decision, and since it provides power during the day in the summer not all year at night when most of the charging is likely to take place is irrelevant. I am curious when you say 'without subsidy' since most of the money on the array comes from flogging power you don't need during the day in the summer, when no-one else and most particularly the utility don't want is either, as huge rates and buying your power in the winter at subsidised prices from the grid when it has none to spare. Unless you are off grid the subsidies are massive, even without installation subsidies. Anyway using your figures the Smart EV is around 10,000 Euros more than the Smart ICE. I doubt that is worth it economically in Germany with their power rates, but even better for other European locations with a subsidy and cheaper electric rates.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          @cj: Without seeing the source where Daimler said under 20,000 Euros I can't comment, but clearly if they said something like 'with a lowest price of under 20,000' then they have done that, but of course the battery has to be leased on top of that. My disagreement on your claim of 'without subsidy' is that it is clearly not the case, if the price of the electricity you sell is way above the market rate, and that which you buy is way below it. The subsidy has a different form to installation subsidy, but it is a subsidy none the less.
          .cj
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          @Dave 16.000€ + 60E/month + Tax (we don't pay taxes now), now we are at 18.910 + 65€/month (source, german >>> http://www.golem.de/1109/86431.html) 20.000€ for car & battery (an information i got at a conference), now we are at 23.680€ (car & battery) And no, the battery is not(!) only the difference between 23k/18k.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          @cj: Without seeing the source where Daimler said under 20,000 Euros I can't comment, but clearly if they said something like 'with a lowest price of under 20,000' then they have done that, but of course the battery has to be leased on top of that. My disagreement on your claim of 'without subsidy' is that it is clearly not the case, if the price of the electricity you sell is way above the market rate, and that which you buy is way below it. The subsidy has a different form to installation subsidy, but it is a subsidy none the less.
      SVX pearlie
      • 3 Years Ago
      So the new Smart has range like this: - 145 km Smart EV - 150 km MIEV - 175 km Leaf So apples-to-apples under US EPA ratings, the 'real world" Smart EV will be lucky to get 60 miles out of the battery. And a higher top speed: - 125 km/h Smart EV - 130 km/h MIEV - 150 km/h Leaf With a top speed of 78 mph, at least it's highway capable, but still not as good as the MIEV. If it's beaten by the MIEV in range, speed, seats, and almost certainly price, why does this even exist?
        Spec
        • 3 Years Ago
        @SVX pearlie
        Oh I think it may have some advantages. -It may be priced less than the iMiEV -it has nice smartphone support -It is built in France/Germany so it will have some nationalistic support. -Having a Cabrio model adds something new -Smaller size makes for easier parking It seems like the Think City but with a smaller battery and backed by deeper pockets who need the ZEV credits.
        .cj
        • 3 Years Ago
        @SVX pearlie
        Good. But now ad the price. for your comparsion (e.g. in germany, uk), then we can talk.
          SVX pearlie
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          As an American, I could hardly care less how much a car costs in Germany or the UK - the currency conversion doesn't hold, so it's a waste of effort looking it up. That said, you are free to do the homework and post the result for your home country or geo.
          Spec
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          Well if you don't care about the price in Germany or the UK and can't be bothered to look it up, then you really should not voice a strong opinion on the relative value proposition of the cars.
          SVX pearlie
          • 3 Years Ago
          @.cj
          Presumably, it will be available in the States, for CARB compliance if nothing else. And even if it's not, it'll still be the least capable EV on the market.
        Nick
        • 3 Years Ago
        @SVX pearlie
        Why does it need to go any faster than 65mph? As far as I know, only a few lonely roads in the central desert allow for speeds in excess of 65mph. We don't know the Smart EV's price yet, so I'll wait to issue a judgement. There's good reasons why people would take it over a MIEV though: The Smart is extremely convenient and easy to navigate/park in a crowded city.
          SVX pearlie
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          "only a few lonely roads in the central desert allow for speeds in excess of 65mph" Untrue. California has posted speed limits up to 70 mph. And if you've ever driven in SoCal freeways or highways when congestion isn't choking them, the traffic can move quite a bit faster than that. 78mph is a decent minimum top speed for something on the highway.
          Spec
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          Well, at least here in California it would be nice to go at least 70mph since that is quite common on a lot of freeways and you'd feel like a bit of a nuisance not being able to drive 70. But I agree that 78mph is more than what is needed.
          Spec
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          Yeah, I grew up in Minnesota . . . and when I go back there I need to remember to slow down or else I'll get a speeding ticket. The CHP pretty much won't bother you as long as you are going under 70mph on the freeway even though the posted limit is often lower.
        Vlad
        • 3 Years Ago
        @SVX pearlie
        There are ICE cars that are bigger and cheaper than ICE Smart, and ICE Smart still sells. I don't quite get its appeal, but it apparently is appealing to some people who vote for it with their wallets. Why would MB stop catering to their tastes?
          Vlad
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Vlad
          @SVX. Yes, it's apples to apples. ICE Smart vs other ICE cars is also apples to apples. The simple fact of life is that people are ready to pay more for one sort of apples than for another.
          SVX pearlie
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Vlad
          Vlad, it's basic apples to apples comparison.
      .cj
      • 3 Years Ago
      ... 19.990 Euro would have been nice, mercedes.
      noevfud
      • 3 Years Ago
      Do they proof read?
      Baldur Norddahl
      • 3 Years Ago
      "in Europe, anyway, where home current is often over 200 volts" It is in fact 230 volts and most homes also got a 400 volt three phase 16 ampere outlet in the utility room and in the kitchen.
        American Refugee
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Baldur Norddahl
        Nick of course doesn't bother to refute my facts, plainly presented, because he doesn't have to in internetland, where he can lie at will. Nick told a lie, that 99% of Europeans live in apartments. I corrected him with the fact, that only about 36% do. Nick changed the debate to claim the 99% of Europeans who live in cities live in Apartments. I corrected him again, using a major European city as an example. Now Nick is just listing cities. Since I've lived in some of them, here's just one of those cities on his list, with the facts for Nick, who finds Google confusing and weird: In Berlin, where I've lived, one out of every ten residential properties is a single family home or duplex. (http://www.businesslocationcenter.de/en/welcome-to-berlin/making-your-home/buying-in-berlin) I could do this for every city on his list, and prove that in no city on Nick's list, do 99% of the residents live in apartments either within the city limits or in the metro area (for example, Berlin also has a very large suburban population who live in places like Potsdam and Falkensee in lovely tree-lined streets where every house has a garage). But Nick obviously doesn't care about facts since he doesn't refute them. So it comes back to the fact that Nick's 99% claim is still unproven, and my evidence that only 36% of EU citizens live in apartments stands. As for my ass, Nick, like many, but obviously not all, Amsterdammers, I ride a bike:)
          Nick
          • 3 Years Ago
          @American Refugee
          American Refugee I bought a meat grinder specially for you and I can't wait to shove you in it feet first !
          Campisi86
          • 3 Years Ago
          @American Refugee
          The internet is an ocean of piss, man, and you and Nick seem to have huge bladders. Let it go.
          American Refugee
          • 3 Years Ago
          @American Refugee
          Oh, and as for your very, very brave internet-issued threat of violence, as a rugby player, I'm quite used to having people's feet in my face, right after I tackle them :)
          American Refugee
          • 3 Years Ago
          @American Refugee
          A meat grinder, that's what your attempt at logic recalls! Cogent thoughts go in, and Nick-speak comes out!
        Nick
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Baldur Norddahl
        99% of Europeans live in apartment buildings / condos though..
          Marco Polo
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          @Nick, American Refugee Time Gentlemen, Please ! You are both correct ! The inner city areas of most European cities (especially older cities) are almost entirely apartment style, or at least built long before parking was considered. The suburbs, even ancient ones are not listed as part of the city by some definitions. Nick, cities like London, Berlin, Paris etc, have huge single house dormitory suburbs, built in the age of motor transport. The UK has one motor-car for ever two people (man, woman, and child !). If 99% didn't have car spaces, that would be a lot of rural population ! I think you have made the mistake of confusing the CBD, or inner city description of 'city', after all the 'City of London" is little over 1 square mile and has a population of only 11,700 of whom only 56 live in a detached house!
          Baldur Norddahl
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          I live in an apartment but I still got my own parking space were I can put up my own charger if need be. Sure, some people are parking on the street but most apartment buildings have a parking lot.
          American Refugee
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          Sigh. Why do people make stupid statements when, because of their improbable and absolute nature, they are obviously stupid? 30 seconds on Google would have produced this excellent report on the building performance of energy use in the EU (www.europeanclimate.org/documents/LR_%20CbC_study.pdf), in which you would be informed that 64% of residential building stock in the region is single family houses, and 36% apartment blocks. That's about what anyone who has spent any time in Europe, especially off the inner-city tourist route, would tell you is about right. So, electric cars can only take up 64% of the car market in the EU? Golly gee, it's just not worth is at all!
          Spec
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          "99% of Europeans live in apartment buildings / condos though.." You didn't say CITIES did you? Don't get all snippy and insult everyone else when you said something 100% wrong.
          Spec
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          "Most Euro countries don't have the kind of incentives provided in the U.S." $8/gallon gasoline is a pretty damn big incentive. Of course, it isn't as much of an incentive as it would be in the USA since Europe (wisely) built itself on the assumption of high gasoline prices such that it is more dense and has very good mass transit available. But that is still an incentive for many. Also, Europeans do not need special charging stations as much as Americans do. We have 120V power which sucks for EVs. But a typical outlet in Europe can provide 10 Amps at 220V such that it is much easier for them to charge up as long as an ordinary outlet is available.
          Marco Polo
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          @American Refugee (Sigh), Yes, Yes, Nick's statement is clearly in error if taken literally. Nick's, point was that more European urban dwellers, live in apartments and old cities which were built long prior to the automobile, than in the newer western nations with vast suburbs of individual housing created first by train and trams and later the automobile. Should Nick have conceded to the literal error, but while retaining the validity of the context ? Probably, but you made it so difficult with such a pedantic and aggressive escalation of invective about such a trivial error of speech ! Isn't it more important that you try to understand Nick's intent, than start a contest to humiliate him, by taking a small, and relatively trivial issue, and bang on abut it in such a belligerent manner ?
          American Refugee
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          Oh, BTW, since you continue to claim, having moved the football, that "In European CITIES, 99% of people live in apartment buildings", here's an actual study of my city, Amsterdam, one of the densest in Europe. This study counts only within the city limits (approximately half of greater Amsterdam's residents reside outise those those limits, in suburbs). According to this actual study, the percentage of Dammers living in apartments, with or without parking, is 77%. Meaning that theoretically, plug ins could account for over 20% of the market here before you even have to consider the problem of plugs Learn to use the Google, dude. The Google is your friend! http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CF8QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdare.uva.nl%2Fdocument%2F344538&ei=NozgT_fxE4al0AWbqdX7DA&usg=AFQjCNEqHcdslqR2CwRm2GOqtP1QiVrfxg&sig2=Nny1yjd44lVEgJx7veEJxQ
          Nick
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          American Refugee Wow, you're dumb as hell ! Europe is not Amsterdam. Only pot-smoking idiots live in Amsterdam !! How about you take a trip to Paris, Marseilles, Lyon, Hamburg, Munich, Frankfurt, Berlin, Zurich, Geneva, Milan, Vienna and other real cities, and then come back to me and tell me people don't live in apartment buildings. If all efforts to bring you back to reason through evidence fails, I'll gladly plant my foot in your dumb face, and the other up your fat a-- Sincerely, Nick
          American Refugee
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          Well then Nick, you don't have the excuse of being an informed American. You are just a plain old fool. If you live in Europe, then you damned well know that most Europeans do not live in the inner city, and most Europeans commute to work by car. Here in the Netherlands, where I live, the car modality for commutes is 70%. Yes, in one of the densest parts of Europe, with excellent public transport, 70% of Dutch people get to work in an automobile. I am sitting in my office in Amsterdam looking over a sea of them parked below. The people who own these cars mostly live in inner suburbs, where they have garages or parking structures with fixed parking. Very few of them rely on street parking, which is extremely limited in this city. You made a statement that was false, and that was stupidly and obviously false. Rule of thumb: when you say 99% of people do something, unless you are referring to breathing, eating, or other bodily functions, then you are probably full of it. Even here in Amsterdam, one of the densest cities in Europe, nowhere near 99% of the populace live in apartment buildings. Amsterdam, like everywhere in Europe, has its suburbs. With your absolutist statement you simply showed yourself to be statistically ignorant. BTW this car, which is perfectly capable of autoroute speeds, is not just a "city car". It is a fine commuter vehicle, which is why it is so popular here for just that purpose. My neighborhood, which is one of those inner suburbs with a mix of apartment and row houses with garages (in Amsterdam! Imagine!) is full of Smarts, including the earlier electric models. European cities, with thier closer-in suburbs, are indeed excellent potential markets for plug ins. But let's put this to rest and prove you aren't an idiot. Please cite one piece of legitimate data that supports your claim that 99% of Europeans live in apartments (this should be interesting, since, just to name one example, 24% of the population of France live in rural communities). Note that you claimed "Europeans", not "inner city dwelling Europeans who check off the new set of qualifications I'm going to now impose to not look like an idiot". If you can't back up this claim, then accept the label. One more anecdote for you. When I lived in the Grachtengordel, in the densest part of central Amsterdam, there was parking for about 16 cars on my block. Of those 16 slots, there were two electric car charging spots. So yes, even in your hypothetical urban situation (which isn't, of course, what your initial statement claimed), there are ways to have an electric car. You may not be an American, but you aren't exactly a well informed member of the EU either, buddy.
          Spec
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          Like most Americans, Nick has probably never been outside the country and is filled with stereotypes about those evil socialist Europeans who are already a lost cause to the rise of atheism and Islam within Europe.
          American Refugee
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          My apartment block is also planning on installing a bank of shared electric chargers, in addition to the one currently available for the two current car sharing Smart EDs usually parked there. Also, the sprawling neighborhood of two and three story row houses around my building (most with garages) is the scene of more and more plug ins, including the earlier Smart ED's, a couple of Leafs, and a lovely burgandy C-Zero. Stupid cliches be stupid!
          American Refugee
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          Marco, nothing that Nick said was true, since what he said, "99% of Europeans live in apartment buildings/condos", is demonstably false. He's simply trying to backpedal from what he said, because he lacks integrity. As to some larger point you seemed to have gleamed from his rants, he also is not correct in the bigger picture as well, no matter how he may try to re-define his past statements. As I stated, nearly 2/3 of Europeans live in non-apartment residences. Most Europeans live in families with cars. Most of those cars are probably parked in garages or lanes, not on the street. So his larger point, that Europeans won't adopt plug ins in sufficient numbers because they lack access to plugs, is also false. In central cities, most people don't own cars at all and aren't in the market, but as I've made clear, the central cities only make up a small part of European residences. Just like in America, the suburban market is far more important then the inner city. Nick talks like someone who has never set foot in Europe. As for his repeated anecdote about not having power in his particular space, it's immaterial. My personal anecdote is that electric chargers are being installed in my building's shared garage as we speak. Anecdotes mean nothing. Facts mean everything. He is wrong, and I am not, since I made no silly and unfounded absolute claims. That's all there is to say about it. Opinions, a##@&!es, as they say.
          Nick
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          " If 99% didn't have car spaces, that would be a lot of rural population ! " I didn't say all don't have car spaces. Buildings in my neighborhood have private underground parking lots with dedicated spots. What's not provided though, and it won't for a very long time, is power outlets or charging stations. Practically no one I know has charging stations or even simple power outlets in their underground garage. Most Euro countries don't have the kind of incentives provided in the U.S.
          Nick
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Nick
          @ American Refugee & Spec I've lived in Europe for over 20 years, have travelled to over 20 countries, and unlike you brainless, smug sacks of feces, actually know what I'm talking about. American sh-theads like you think American is the center of the world, and have no clue that I might not even be one of you, lol! FACTS for you TWITS: In European CITIES, 99% of people live in apartment buildings with either street or underground parking. Unlike what's going on in the U.S., there's little to no effort made to install charging systems in said parking lots. As a matter of fact, my own parking spot doesn't even have a power outlet. Euro cities are very different from U.S. cities where there's still a large proportion of individual homes. There are many homes in the countryside in Europe, but do you think they'll go for a city car with low range? These EVs are made for city driving....and are targeting users who are unable to charge them.
      Smoking_dude
      • 3 Years Ago
      In Europe the we have as standard 230Volt sockets with 16 Amps. The american dryer outlet has 220/230 volts. the german Oven / dryer outlet has 400 Volts. But the smart faces competition by the Zoe (~ renault clio sized) which offers 4 seats and a range of 136 miles
        DaveMart
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Smoking_dude
        Up top 125 miles (NEDC) but otherwise correct.
      Dan Frederiksen
      • 3 Years Ago
      I guess I chose not to hear concerns about the price
    • Load More Comments
    Share This Photo X