2012 Nissan Leaf
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Fried batteries?

Nissan has reiterated that its Leaf battery will maintain about 80 percent of its original capacity after five years of use. This comes after a number of drivers reported that their cars indicated battery deterioration after one year, Green Car Reports says. When Nissan first revealed details of the battery, it said it expects the pack will have between 70 and 80 percent capacity left after ten years.

The drivers that reported the issue were all in the rather warm climate of Arizona and had driven the cars fewer than 17,000 miles. Nissan said that the deterioration indicators occurred in fewer than five percent of U.S. Leafs and called the incidents "isolated" in a statement. Nissan added that the deterioration is "non-linear," meaning that, while the battery will lose 20 percent of its capacity after five years, it'll lose just another 10 percent after an additional five years.

Questions about the Nissan Leaf battery packs go back at least two years, when ex-Tesla executive Darryl Siry went on record as saying that the battery pack's thermal management system may prevent it from keeping up that 80-percent threshold over five years. Nissan at the time denied the claim.

And last September, Nissan said the Leaf battery would need some maintenance after five years of steady use, but not replacement. The company estimated that Leaf batteries would still have about 80 percent of its original capacity after 60,000 miles of use, and that if the battery capacity fell below that level, Leaf owners would be able to swap out individual modules and would not need to replace entire battery packs.

Through May, Nissan sold 2,613 Leafs in the U.S. so far in 2012, which was up 21 percent from year-earlier totals but was less than half of the number General Motors sold of its Chevrolet Volt extended-range plug-in through the first five months of the year.


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    • 1 Second Ago
  • 121 Comments
      JPrates
      • 5 Months Ago
      Since when is the Volt a good example for PHV? If you say the PHV is the Volt, then I agree with you, the problem is the same or worse than on EV. But mind you, the only really efficient PHV on the market is the Prius PHV: Far better efficiency on EV mode and just blows away the Volt once the battery is depleted for EV mode. On a Prius you have limited amps you can pull from the battery, enough for 95% of the time. If you hit those extra 5% where the battery is not enough, the ICE comes in for help, and sure as hell the HSD system is the most efficient in the world at that task. So you have an EV which not only protects the battery with the ICE just like a regular Prius (and its reliability is well proven) plus you got a EV mode where the discharge rate is also limited to protect the battery. No other battery is more protected and more well taken care of than the battery of a Prius PHV. Sure, the battery is smaller, maybe not enough for everyone. Agree. But it's enough for most people and does not make the car cost almost the same as your house! When I tested the prototype here in Europe I got 2,6 L/100 km on HV mode after depleting the battery EV range. On a round trip to work and back, 40 km each way, the battery was depleted on the way there at around 19 km (lot of high-way at 100 km/h) and I got to work with 2,2 L/100 km. The way back was done entirely on HV mode and got me 2,9 L/100 km. Total round trip average was 2,6 L/100 km, with 2/3 of the route done at 100 km/h. Sure I could probably done that with a Volt without a drop of fuel. Sure. But Volt's engineering sucks big time, and on my frequent long trips (over 100 km) the Prius PHV is just much more efficient. Fuel consumption for the Volt on ER mode is just intolerable.
      Spec
      • 5 Months Ago
      Yeah, I've looked into determining the state of charge (SoC) of Li-Ions and it is a very hard problem. But that's not what I mean . . . I'm just wondering if the internal data will reveal some dead cells or perhaps the battery being OK but it just doesn't work well at high temps. Clues as to what the alleged problems may be.
      Spec
      • 5 Months Ago
      I'm a fan of EVs but one has to remain grounded in reality. Just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "Lalalalalalalalalal!" when ever there is bad news isn't going to help.
      SVX pearlie
      • 5 Months Ago
      The Volt has thermal management and is being conservative with the pack use, so maybe it loses 10%. If it drops from 37 miles down to 33 miles, before switching to gas, that's not so bad. Dogmatically, it's horrible that I'd end up doubling my gas consumption while commuting. Practically, filling up every 4 weeks instead of every 7 weeks is still a huge improvement over filling up every single week.
      DaveMart
      • 5 Months Ago
      Indeed. As I have said several times in reference to whether to buy or lease the Leaf - or the Volt. The technology is rather better established now, but leasing is still the more prudent course perhaps.
      Joeviocoe
      • 5 Months Ago
      With any 1st generation model, and 1st iteration of a brand new, unproven technology.. there are bound to be an increased quantity of faults. Good Quality Assurance in the automotive industry would never accept 5% of any model to have substandard performance over the life of the car (at least while under warranty). So this is certainly is something that Nissan needs to fix. That being said, this is why Toyota, Honda, Mazda, BMW, Audi, VW, and many other automakers have been dragging feet. They know that the first one out the gate will discover the problems head on. But still, if Nissan can correct any Quality Control issues of their battery production and assembly before the next iteration, and before the Smyrna and Sunderland plants open... they will still be ahead of everyone else and become the leader of the EV market. ---------------------------- This could put a bad taste in the mouths of potential buyers. But the 1st generation is a risky generation. It is best to get as many EV models from as many automakers, on the road as quickly as possible.... that way, when the average person hears a story about one model catching on fire a lot, or one model getting degraded performance... but the other models don't suffer from this... they won't jump to the conclusion that the problem is inherent to all Li-Ion batteries.. but the problems come from build quality. Think of all the gasoline car models that have been built with consistantly poor quality, but with such variety out there, nobody blames the Internal Combustion Engine as being "not ready for prime time".
        Anne
        • 5 Months Ago
        @Joeviocoe
        "the automotive industry would never accept 5% of any model to have substandard performance" Just for completeness' sake: As I mentioned earlier, it isn't 5%. If you read the source at greencarreports, it is only 5 LEAF's. Trivial.
      Pip
      • 5 Months Ago
      Speaking here from the Texas Leaf - exactly one year to the day, 20,206 miles and I lost my first capacity bar (=15% capacity loss). I don't know how I am supposed to retain 80% in 5 years that Nissan claims. While I do put in a few more miles than most, I did not abuse the car anymore than others. But, if this is supposed to be a massed produced car, I shouldn't have to baby it, it should work as a normal car and those that baby it get freaky lifetime numbers...just with any gas car. This loss is really bad in my opinion. Thinking of a gas car that gets 500 miles total, this would be a reduction of 75 miles after the first year! What gas engine would loose that much efficiency in one year?
        SNP
        • 5 Months Ago
        @Pip
        I think you've just made my point from earlier. Ladies and gents on ABG - first hand account here. Nissan didnt mean to sell you lemons, they just wanted the same headstart toyota had with the prius. Unfortunately, the concept of pure EVs are unsettling for us normal people and they were not familiar enough with the technology to mass produce this. Annual performance hits was only a secondary, but a serious concern as you've proven. Have any of your guys followed up on the progress of the 6 Nissan Leafs that were sent over to the NYC taxi commission? LoL. The drive 40miles for an hour and go back to charge for 6hrs business model. LMAO. What a day for that cabby - squeeze in a lunch, cost of electricity, car payment, and your whole day's pay is out the window. And now that cabbys gotta be reminded of his 15% capacity loss cause he has to do a full charge 4 times a day because he's gotta share the vehicle. I dont know how anyone can keep such a vehicle for 10yrs
          Anne
          • 5 Months Ago
          @SNP
          I highly doubt that a cab driver in New York can cover 40 miles in an hour. On average.
        Anne
        • 5 Months Ago
        @Pip
        "But, if this is supposed to be a massed produced car, I shouldn't have to baby it, it should work as a normal car" Up to a certain point, yes. I can not judge how you treated your car over the past year, but different technologies have different specifics. In a 'reverse world' (EV the norm, ICE the new kid on the block), we would be having people complaining about a seized up engine because they never checked the oil. Having to change the oil every 5000 miles is also a form of babying. So there are some things that a battery doesn't like, just as there are things that an ICE doesn't like. But since we're all familiar with ICE vehicle, we simply don't know any better and accept its shortcomings. We all know the Tesla bricking history, where this has been discussed at length. But may I ask a question? Do you hope to lose another 1 bars in the near future to be able to claim guarantee? (2 bars would mean a loss of 30% if I'm not mistaken).
          Stoaty Marmot
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Anne
          Each bar after the first one is 6.25% capacity (according to the service manual). While we can hope that Nissan will make good on the problem cars in Phoenix and other especially hot areas, there is no warranty on battery capacity. Nissan has written a warranty which only covers sudden failure of one of the cells. Gradual capacity loss (like 15% per year) is NOT covered by the warranty. Not much of a warranty you say? Can't argue with you there.
          Anne
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Anne
          Just read your answer to Joeviocoe, so you think the 80% after 5 years is not warranted?
        Joeviocoe
        • 5 Months Ago
        @Pip
        The loss is likely NOT going to be linear. So you may lose 1 bar this year, and may lose the second bar 5 years from now. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of these 'lost capacity' Leafs can be fixed via an Over the Air Update... if the fault is in the SoC meter subsystem. Or if it is truly the pack that is at fault, it would not surprise me if Nissan performed a warranty service by replacing one or two modules that are bringing down the whole pack's performance.
          SNP
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          @Joeviocoe, Based on nissan's account of 2-3% ~ 10kmiles, that's about 3-4% ~15kmiles / yr. Statistically based on that 1 sample of 15% on the first yr of 20k miles, I would not paint such an optimistic picture for pip. Things tend to fail at an exponential rate, not the other way around. I'd expect more losses and dramatically worse performance of the next 5yrs. If enough people are complaining to the point where there's an article, I'd bet most people dont notice the first 5% capacity loss and a lot are ignoring the first 10%. By this same time next year, you'll see some serious complaints.
          Joeviocoe
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          It is actually NOT so easy to test the SoC metering. Since there is feedback. Even if the pack has more energy than the meter thinks... the computer reads the meter, and will go into Limp Home mode based on that reading... so simply running it dry, won't actually tell you for sure. You have to actually measure the pack terminals. And you have to know what voltage corresponds to what SoC at a particular load, temperature, condition. Also, a bad SoC meter could also prevent charging to full. Getting confused about what a full battery would measure at could definitely throw things WAY out a wack. I'm not trying to trivialize your problem though, if the computer is faulty, you still have reduced range. I know that Nissan won't warranty loss of capacity, but have you taken it to them for a look over? Just to make sure that the Pack is really losing capacity, and it's not anything else? --------------------- It is not really accurate to say 'thinks tend to fail exponentially'. If the problem is signaling, things can certainly fail logarithmically. I have seen SoC fluctuations like this many times, especially in Li-Ion (where measurements are more difficult). I have seen cells appear to be losing charge fast, but a reboot of the bat stats from NVRAM (which the meter relies on) the charge jumps 10%. Granted, Nissan should be ensuring that the metering subsystem works flawlessly too. -------------------- Yes, right now there is no warranty for battery performance. But the way it is written, a good lawyer could fight it. But you will probably need a class action lawsuit to win. But for that to be successful, you need A LOT more people to be having significant complaints too. Unfortunately, automotive Lithium batteries don't really have long term, real world experience. So while the vast majority will experience acceptable degradation that is gradual over time... there will be extremes to this Bell Curve.
          Pip
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          I actually had my 1 year battery check today. 5 stars (perfect) in every category except the "topping off" category which I scored 4/5. As the dealership explained, this is all really high marks. In addition, the report did conclude the loss of the first battery bar. When I asked if it was normal he just pointed to some standard text of "all lithium ion batteries loose capacity..yadda..yadda." Unfortuantely that doesn't answer anything. I know Li-ion batteries degrade I wanted to know if mine was degrading faster than others, to which he had no answers.
          Joeviocoe
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          Okay Pip, that answers my question. Sorry, and I hope that the degradation doesn't get worse. I would push the question with Nissan, if I were you. Don't stop hounding them until they can provide some information and data that more specific than the Yadda Yadda answer you were given.
          Joeviocoe
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          Pip... I know that simple division implies that 1 bar = 15% for the Leaf.... but did the Nissan tech give you a readout or any indication of the max capacity in KWH by direct measurement??? I don't know if the Leaf is programmed to lose that first bar at exactly 15% less than the original capacity in KWH. The bars might be evenly spaced at 15% relative to each bar... but that first bar could be lost at 7.5%. Bars and analog gauges are NOT precise. You need to know exactly how many useable KWH the pack can hold.
          Pip
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          I know Nissan has said the loss was not linear, but 15% in one year and only 5% for four years is not even a curve but a huge steep drop. I think most were expecting that first bar (15%) @ 50kish or 5 years and those that pushed hard would see 20%. As fast as the pack degraded I find it really hard to believe I will only loose 5% in 4 more years. Mind you, Nissan was on record saying that yearly loss would be ~2-3% per 10,000 miles. It is not the fault of the SoC metering. It may be for me, but there are easy ways to test the battery's capacity (its divided into 281 separate "units") and test on all the cars in Arizona prove the 15% loss. In addition Nissan does NOT warrant capacity or capacity loss. Only want is not "gradual and normal" which is lawyer talk for "extremely ambiguious so we can claim just about anything." This current loss % has been attributed by Nissan as "gradual and normal."
      Marco Polo
      • 5 Months Ago
      I have always seen the natural progression of ICE to Hybrid to PI-hybrid to EREV, and eventually to EV inevitable for passenger cars. The technology for battery powered passenger vehicles to satisfy the expectations of the vast majority of consumers, just doesn't exist. That's why GM Voltec technology is so brilliant. It works ! Like Toyota's Prius, the Volt provides an amazingly high level of customer satisfaction, along with the ability to expand the to include a wide variety of model. Most of the companies that have tried to produce a volume selling pure EV, fail due to the stumbling block of energy storage. Pure EV technology fares better when applied to either the high priced, low volume market, or the light commercial/speciality vehicle market sector, where the EV's economic benefits can be better assessed and the logic of economic performance is the deciding purchasing rationale. In time, energy storage technology will develop to satisfy the expectations of the volume market. Nissan's Leaf, Mitsubishi's iMev, etc, should be considered in the same contest as the first 30 years of ICE passenger vehicles. (Fortunately, EV's don't have to re-invent the whole car, just the drive-train !). But for early adopters, willing to accept minor shortcomings, the Leaf is a fantastic vehicle, and ownership is a great adventure ! For these owners, the pride and delight of owning a Leaf, is easily worth minor drawbacks. In 1987 when I bought my first (Motorola) mobile cell phone, I didn't expect that it would be my only phone forever! I realised that within a short period, the technology would improve dramatically, and my purchase would be obsolete! But, it didn't stop me buying my first $5000 cell phone. ! I can remember the endless negative remarks from those troglodytes, who either doomsayed the technology, or vocally resented the high cost and made bitter, derisive remarks toward early adopters. Well, the technology has continued to evolve, along with the vast revolution and expansion of the communication industry. The Volt is not the ultimate in EV technology, and EV's will eventually replace EREV's. But in the meantime, each EV model, (including the FFE, ) moves EV technology closer to acceptance in the consciousness of the general public. And that, can only be a good thing !
        Anne
        • 5 Months Ago
        @Marco Polo
        Good comment. The emotional aspect is of considerable importance. You touch on the subject when you say: "But for early adopters, willing to accept minor shortcomings, the Leaf is a fantastic vehicle, and ownership is a great adventure ! For these owners, the pride and delight of owning a Leaf, is easily worth minor drawbacks." Many of the naysayers simply can not understand that an electric drive train is something like spoilers and sideskirts, large rims, wide tires, a foldable roof. Some people see that as a luxury they deserve, a present to themselves and are willing to spend extra money on that. The decision to buy a car, and which car is determined for 90% by answering the question: do I want to be seen in it? There are actually two natural paths for progression of ICE to EV. You already mentioned the plugin hybrid car, the other is the plugin hybrid household: one EV, one ICE car. With the EV we haven't even reached the early adopter phase. The ones buying an EV now are the innovators. The majority of the population will not even consider buying an EV for one second, because they are emotionally not ready for them. The keyword is trust. Only when they see them driving around regularly and talk to someone they actually know that owns one and do not read a boatload of negative stories about them on the internet, only then will they be ready to trust this new technology and consider buying one. It will take many years to overcome this. If these kind of stories about the LEAF are hyped too much (eg by translating less than 5 --> less than 5%), then that still fragile trust is easily shattered.
          Stoaty Marmot
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Anne
          There are plenty of Leafs on the freeway in Los Angeles. I drive my Leaf on the 405 and 101 four days a week. I frequently see a Leaf or a Volt (sometimes both) during my commute. The Leaf is NOT a NEV. It is a full-fledged EV that works great, and will probably have a long battery life anywhere the temperatures are cool or moderate. Unfortunately, that doesn't include places like Phoenix, AZ. By the way, there are now 14 Leafs reported to have lost one capacity bar and 2 reported to have lost 2 capacity bars. So much for Nissan's "5 reports"--that is old news now.
          SVX pearlie
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Anne
          "The majority of the population will not even consider buying an EV for one second, because they are emotionally not ready for them." In SoCal, it is not at all uncommon to see a Volt on the highway, if you know what to look for. It is funny, but I almost never see a Leaf on the highway, pretty much only on city streets / parking lots. The rare highway Leaf is the exception which proves the rule. I suspect that Leaf owners don't trust the car on the highway, due to the inherent rapid battery depletion. In that respect, the Leaf is basically being treated as a high-speed NEV. I'm still waiting to see a second MIEV or Coda in the wild. Those things are rare, even in SoCal. OTOH, I just saw my first Toyota-badged FR-S yesterday, and it's a very handsome little coupe. Being able to drive the car like a regular car, and having the ER is great stuff.
          DaveMart
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Anne
          Ford seems to be doing a good job in training it's staff on electric vehicles, unlike, remarkably, Renault, at least in the UK. When spec levels are taken into account the difference to the Leaf appears to be around $2,000, not $4,000, so if you don't need much of a boot the Focus is perhaps not too bad a buy. I still wish they had based it on the C-Max platform though, which could have handled the boot intrusion and still have provided reasonable space.
          Marco Polo
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Anne
          Anne, "The decision to buy a car, and which car is determined for 90% by answering the question: do I want to be seen in it? There are actually two natural paths for progression of ICE to EV. You already mentioned the plugin hybrid car, the other is the plugin hybrid household: one EV, one ICE car. " You make a good point. In younger household's, the decision about what cars to purchase will no longer be exclusively male oriented. Today's demographics (especially in Europe) reveal the female already has a car of her own in new households. Females will continue the role of decision makers. Unfortunately, these new, independent, (especially mothers) females tend to purchase SUV's. Hopefully, in the future, this demographic sector may be persuaded to purchase EV's instead. Toyota reports that Hybrid SUV,s are almost exclusively purchased by males, females preferring to purchase conventional SUV's. In my experience of renting holiday vehicles, it's usually the male who rents an EV out of curiosity, females stick to what they know ! This may be because in the early day's we offered Vectrix VX 1's, and at nearly 400 lb, they were just too large an heavy. I am trying to get accurate information on EV buying/use trends in the PRC, but it's not easy as the information is not collected by the same methods as in the West. Introducing, EV's to our staff as company vehicles, met with a mixture of and resistance curiosity by the males, and initial enthusiasm from females. However, female staff proved far more susceptible to negative peer pressure and comment than the males. (Especially, about catching fire). In the UK we offer the Vauxhall Ampera to middle rank executives as company cars/salary sacrifice. Of 26 executives ( 11 male, 15 female) who qualify for vehicles in this price range, only five (all male) chose the Ampera over less well equipped ICE vehicles. ( We have ordered 8 Ampera's, as I believe the Ampera will prove more popular once established.) 10 years ago, I introduced the Toyota Prius to the company fleet, and after initial doubt it proved popular with female staff, who identify with Prius image as fashionable vehicle. In the same way senior male executives have adopted the Lexus GS 450h. The Ford Focus EV, will sell it's modest production run to those individuals and companies who want an EV, with all the style and appointments of a conventional vehicle, and more importantly, fit's in with a Ford fleet plan. That's why I have great hopes for the Zoe in Europe. It's good looking (in a conventional way) small hatchback, backed by a popular manufacturer of small cars. A very good fit, in a two car family.
          Anne
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Anne
          @Marco Polo, It rather makes sense that men are more inclined to try out new tech than women. Hasn't that always been the case? Weren't men the ones tinkering with PC's? Women driving SUV's, not so much where I live. Amongst young females the new Mini seems to be the favourite. The new Fiat 500 is also proving rather popular in that demographic.
        SNP
        • 5 Months Ago
        @Marco Polo
        Good post Marco. With one comment to add to your statement. Ford didnt actually do any R&D for the ford focus electric. If you remember, they did a partnership with a canadian parts manufacturer that had an idea and wanted to test it out on a platform. Ford never releases a vehicle with the expectation of selling in the hundreds. In that respect, this was a brilliant move by ford in that it costs them almost nothing and the financial burden is the parts maker to bare. On another note, had your 1980's cell phone example gone on with only regional towers and no satellites and no high capacity batteries you would've been rightfully derided as a fool and his money. You were lucky in that respect and the same goes true for pure EV cars right now. The problem is not so much as battery capacity, it's one way of solving the problem you can also view it as gasoline being the battery right now. And currently, people can do a full "recharge" in 5 minutes when needed where as pure EVs can not. So either technology has to improve or go for the next best thing PHEV. But to buy it now and pray that technology will catch up is not realistic for 99% of society. On these boards, i'm with the 99% who only drives when i need to and when i need it, it has to be available.
          SNP
          • 5 Months Ago
          @SNP
          Ford has the Hybrid / Hybrid plugin lineup. This was more of a gimmick and consumer response test run. Whatever they learn, they share with the supplier who built it.
          Anne
          • 5 Months Ago
          @SNP
          "Ford never releases a vehicle with the expectation of selling in the hundreds. In that respect, this was a brilliant move by ford in that it costs them almost nothing and the financial burden is the parts maker to bare." That is also the downside: their engineers learn nothing from it and they build up no IP.
      Anne
      • 2 Years Ago
      green.autoblog.com says: "Nissan said that the deterioration indicators occurred in fewer than five percent of U.S. Leafs and called the incidents "isolated" in a statement." greencarreports.com says: "“We’re aware of a few isolated cases where a very small number of consumers are reporting a one bar loss. (We’re talking less than 5 units versus the 12,000 on the road in the U.S.),” a Nissan representative told us." Which is it? 5 LEAFs or 5% of LEAFs?
        SVX pearlie
        • 5 Months Ago
        @Anne
        5 is less than 5%, so they could both be true.
          Anne
          • 5 Months Ago
          @SVX pearlie
          Then Danny could as well have written "occurred in fewer than 100 percent of U.S. Leafs" :) 5% suggests that is is affecting hundreds of LEAF's, instead of just a handful. I just think it's a bit sloppy work from Danny.
          DaveMart
          • 5 Months Ago
          @SVX pearlie
          Sloppy work from Danny? You CANNOT be serious!
        EZEE
        • 5 Months Ago
        @Anne
        It's five Leaves..... Gosh Anne...you have to know your plural forms. Gee!
          Spec
          • 5 Months Ago
          @EZEE
          What? LEAF = Leading, Environmentally friendly, Affordable, Family car Ugh. I don't know which is worse, naming after a leaf of a tree or that acronym. 'Tesla' was a great name . . . a nice reference to crazy scientist of yore that worked with electricity.
          SVX pearlie
          • 5 Months Ago
          @EZEE
          Is it an acronym, or a backronym? Was the Leaf originally launched that way? Or did Nissan marketing name the car "Leaf", market "LEAF" in all caps, and then realize they needed an acronym so it wasn't completely stupid to use all-caps all the time?
          Rotation
          • 5 Months Ago
          @EZEE
          Wow, that's a terrible acronym.
          Anne
          • 5 Months Ago
          @EZEE
          LEAF is an acronym. I know better English than you. ;)
        Spec
        • 5 Months Ago
        @Anne
        Well I sure hope it is the 5 Leafs. That would be a trivial number.
          Anne
          • 5 Months Ago
          @Spec
          I simply assume that Danny misread the source. The danger here is that others take this article as a soruce and before you know it you see headlines all over the internet: "5% of LEAF's suffer battery problems". Some are very eager to kick the EV into the ground and jump onto every shred of negative news and spin it out of proportion. If the spin already starts at green.autoblog.com, then we are in deep ****.
      Peter
      • 5 Months Ago
      :D
      SVX pearlie
      • 5 Months Ago
      @JP: Please take Toyota's dong out of your mouth when speaking - it makes you mumble. The PIP is just about useless as an EV. It has no EV range, and cannot even run on the highway on battery. The Volt, can do an average commute without burning a drop of fuel, and it has done so for months on end (Jay Leno). Yes, the PIP is "better" for long drives with an empty battery, but that's because, as above, it's useless as an EV. 80+% of the time, the Volt is on battery, so 80% of the time, it's burning less gas than a PIP. Simple as that. To pretend that the PIP is actually *good* technology is self-delusion.
      Joeviocoe
      • 5 Months Ago
      I wonder.. Has any of the dozen or so Leaf drivers who have had noticeable degradation in capacity thought about taken the car to cooler climates for a few weeks? It is possible that although the higher temperatures of Arizona and Texas in June really do reduce capacity... it may not be permanent. I know that many batteries when cold, lose performance and capacity but that returns quickly when warmed up again. I'm NOT saying that the chemical reactions are the same for extremes of hot and cold.. but just wondering if it has been tried.
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