Consider this a cart-pulls-horse scenario.

Nissan has started a trial program in Japan that involves a Leaf electric vehicle supplying power to a building during mid-afternoon peak electricity-usage periods, Green Car Congress reported, citing the Nikkei.

Under the program, a municipal building in the Oppama district of the Kanagawa Prefecture, about 20 miles south of Tokyo, will get about four percent of its power from a Leaf between 1 p.m. and 3 p.m.

This is the latest in a series of small vehicle-to-grid (V2G) tests that involve the Leaf. Last August, Nissan debuted a system in which a Leaf could provide as many as two days of electricity for a typical Japan home (which uses about 11 kilowatt hours of electricity per day) and said it had intentions of commercializing the system.


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  • 18 Comments
      goodoldgorr
      • 3 Years Ago
      Im not interrested to use the battery as a power usage as it provoke wear and can cause the battery to brick and last less. I said many time that a battery is a back-up devise with slow charge-discharge rate, is it clear now. Who will have his car pluggued night and days for 2$ and weardown his battery ?? A battery is only useful for an ice car for starting and lighthing or in a fuelcell car for regenerative breaking.
        mapoftazifosho
        • 3 Years Ago
        @goodoldgorr
        Oh man, somebody read an article about bricked batteries once...watch out...this guy is an expert on regen BREAKNG too!
      DaveMart
      • 3 Years Ago
      The battery is rated at 100,000 miles on the Leaf. The $12,000 it costs (Renault, insured value) works out at 12 cents a mile. At 4 miles per kwh then the 6kwh they are draining here costs about $2.88. Even if you are paying $0.30 kwh for peak electricity it would only cost you $1.80, so it sounds like a lousy deal. In a year you might knock about $1,000 worth of depreciation off your battery. Batteries would have to last for a lot more cycles to make this of much interest, save in Japan which is in a permanent state of energy emergency since switching off perfectly good reactors. The cost in battery depreciation works out to about $0.48 kwh. OK in an emergency, but that is about all.
      DarylMc
      • 3 Years Ago
      Don't be too harsh. I'm sure gorr has at least 2 languages. Well I hope he does or I just made myself look like a sarcastic bastard.
      paulwesterberg
      • 3 Years Ago
      I like the idea of allowing the leaf to supply household power during an outage - this is cheaper and more efficient than the generators that many people buy as a power source backup, but I am reluctant to waste battery cycles providing peak power for utilities because this will cause battery capacity reduction & require replacement sooner. To charge at night: 11kWh at 6.5 cents = 71.5 Peak power sold back to the grid: 11kWh at 25 cents is $2.75 per day. So the net profit is likely to be $2 per day which might tempt some, but it seems like a hassle when your car only has half its range left in the evening. Over 5 years that would amount to $3,560 which sounds great until you need to replace the battery which costs twice that amount. If the utility company agreed to pay half of the battery replacement costs then it might be worthwhile. If on a Model S missing 11kWh of capacity would seldom be an issue.
        jeffwishart
        • 3 Years Ago
        @paulwesterberg
        V2G applications are more likely to include ancillary services like frequency regulation and spinning reserve than peak shaving. Frequency reserve, especially, would involve many small charges and discharges of the battery, so you wouldn't necessarily discharge the battery to a large extent. Further, it will be possible to set the desired SOC for a set time so that you can be sure of having the range you need when you get back to your car. Utilities are already very interested in V2G, and will be willing to pay for the ability to have access to vehicle batteries for ancillary services but also for renewable energy absorption. Your 0.25$/kWh may therefore be a large underestimate.
          Dave R
          • 3 Years Ago
          @jeffwishart
          FWIW - SDG&E has announced a "Reduce Your Use" rewards program this year - for each kWh you reduce your usage on a qualifying day, SDG&E will pay you $0.75-$1.25 / kWh for each kWh saved.
        Ele Truk
        • 3 Years Ago
        @paulwesterberg
        This is really a fledgling technology. But it is important to do the work now, and have it ready when the battery technology catches up to the economics. It probably won't be for another 10 years before V2G is actually an option that utility customers can opt in on. By then who knows what battery technology will look like? Maybe in 10 years the battery pack only costs $3000. Maybe fuel prices will have doubled. Maybe there are better incentives for customers. Maybe solar will become so cheap V2G isn't needed. It's better to start working on the technology now, establish standards, and get some real world data. Sure it may not pan out, but only by doing these tests can we get hard data to make educated decisions.
        mapoftazifosho
        • 3 Years Ago
        @paulwesterberg
        Will the battery really cost twice that $3,560 five years from now?
        Joeviocoe
        • 3 Years Ago
        @paulwesterberg
        V2G is likely to draw on hundreds of EVs in the future... and at that point, drain and wear on a single battery is likely to be unnoticeable. It is good to test now... but I doubt that a single BEV will be providing power to a utility. I would think that the utility would implement this at a point in the future when BEVs/PHEVs are more plentiful than todays Hybrids.
      lne937s
      • 3 Years Ago
      More Info: "Nissan plans to sell 10,000 Leaf-to-home units during the fiscal year. With Japanese government subsidies in place it costs around 330,000 yen (US$4,153)." http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4374129/Nissan-turns-auto-home-power-sharing-into-reality And it is built around the CHAdeMO DC charger protocol. The Inverter is in the charger, changing DC from the battery into AC for the house. It then charges the vehicle with DC at a higher rate than the onboard charger, but slower than quick chargers. As it doesn't need to be small and light to fit within the vehicle, the charger can be made more efficient. http://blog.nissan-global.com/EN/?p=4866 While this charger was made with Nichichon, the CHAdeMO vehicle to grid system Nissan is developing with GE is similar. http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/ge-and-nissan-team-up-to-tackle-vehicle-to-grid-issues/
        lne937s
        • 3 Years Ago
        @lne937s
        Also, because it is a 10kW DC charge/discharge system, it will allow you to charge the LEAF from empty in 2 hours, rather than ~7 hours with the Level 2 charger. http://altenergyautos.blogspot.com/2012/05/nichicon-introduces-smallest-and.html ~$4000 to be able to charge 3 times faster, and be able to sell back to the grid, provide backup power, etc., I think they could sell quite a few.
          lne937s
          • 3 Years Ago
          @lne937s
          Looked at the wrong one, it is actually just twice as fast, not 3 times.
      marcopolo
      • 3 Years Ago
      @ DarylMc Daryl mate, you are quite right, Gorr's first language if French. Although old Gorr' may have some er,.. eccentric views, and terms of expression, his heart's in the right place and he means well.
      JP
      • 3 Years Ago
      I don't care how many languages gorr has, it's speaking gibberish in all of them.
      • 3 Years Ago
      Does anyone know what power these Leafs (Leaves?) can invert back to the grid? The REV Technologies 300 ACX vehicles have 3.3kW grid tie inverters on them. with a 25kWhr pack. 3.3kW draw on a pack this size is peanuts compared to the traction motor draw (up to 125kW). Hawaii will soon have 6 of these vehicles. If they are all inverting at the same time, that's a mobile ~20kW power generator for up to ~7.5 hours. Scale up the quantities of vehicles more, and you can start to make some significant impacts for ancillary services!
        lne937s
        • 3 Years Ago
        this CHAdeMO-based system is 10kW http://altenergyautos.blogspot.com/2012/05/nichicon-introduces-smallest-and.html
          lne937s
          • 3 Years Ago
          @lne937s
          looked at the wrong one... it is actually 6.6kw.
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