Carlos Ghosn is not backing down.

Giving the keynote speech at the 2012 New York Auto Show today, the president and CEO of Nissan said that he stands behind his prediction that EVs will make up 10 percent of the market by 2020 in the places they are available. He also said that he expects Nissan to sell 1.5 million zero emission cars by 2016.

Ghosh brushed off a question about somewhat slow Leaf sales by pointing out that the Leaf is still constrained by supply, given the earthquake and tsunami in Japan last year as well as the strong yen. Leaf production in the UK and U.S. that will start in the near future (later this year for Tennessee, early 2013 for Sunderland) will make the car more available to more people. "I don't want you to take a one-month or two-month sales result in one particular market to try to make your opinion about the evolution of a very important technology for the industry," he said. "I think the electric car will hold its promises. All the stars are lining up to make it a very important segment. ... I am not at all changing my bullish approach."

Ghosn has reason to be bullish. Nissan has sold 27,000 Leafs worldwide since introducing the car in late 2010, and 11,000 of those sales were in the U.S. And, he added, "The Nissan Leaf has had no quality problems."

Looking forward, Ghosn also said that the challenge is to reduce the cost, size and weight of the battery and "we have to do it fast" because government incentives will not last forever. Luckily, the industry has changed enough in the last half-decade to make this possible. He said:

One of the biggest evolutions we are seeing in our industry is the battery. As you know, when we started our electric car goals, it was in 2006, there were not a lot of battery makers in the world. Fortunately, with our drive and with the drive of other carmakers, the number of battery makers and companies investing in batteries has really been impressive. Today, you can find very good batteries, extremely competitive, in Korea, in Japan, in the United States. The Chinese are investing in batteries. ... The life of the battery is going to be longer than the life of the car.



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  • 57 Comments
      • 3 Years Ago
      Given the amount of push back the leaf and especially the volt is getting from "think tanks", talking heads and the political right, these sales milestones are impressive. But we are early in the adoption stage for a radial new way to move our economy, and EVs are not yet past the valley of death. All it takes is another invented safety issue, more negative endorsements or even a real accident or two ( as more EVs get on the road this is going to happen). There is a lot of oily money that is now really angry at the prime time success the leaf and volt are enjoying.
        Spec
        • 3 Years Ago
        The oil companies are no longer worried about EVs. Usage of oil has dropped by 10+% in the past few years but the oil companies are making more money than ever. And oil usage will continue to drop in OECD countries in the following years . . . that's not from me, that's from their own projections. They'll continue to make zillions due to higher prices and getting into the natural gas market.
          Sasparilla Fizz
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Spec
          Make no mistake Spec, the oil industry wants plug-ins dead (they can't do it, but they would certainly do it if they could). There's a reason why all the GOP Presidential candidates said they wanted to get rid of the plug-in tax credit - and the House said they'd eliminate it (several times)? If the GOP sweeps both houses and the Presidency in 2012, I'd fully expect them to kill that tax credit (in the name of reducing the deficit and govt. spending of course). It's not because these guys just thought that up in a coordinated fashion themselves, since Republicans were part of the group that created the tax credit in the first place. There's big time lobbying from somebody that made this recent anti plug-in tax credit push happen. There's a reason why this happened at the exact same time Fox News dedicated lots and lots of expensive air time to the "news" of a plugin car that only sold in the thousands connecting it with the worst thing in their viewers heads President Obama (as their initial impression for plugins) who had nothing to do with the vehicle. It wasn't news, but somebody at the top directed and made that happen. There's a reason you still can't get NiMH batts (whose costs per kWh is still lower than Li) in large cell size (EV pack size) without the direct approval of (believe its Chevron) and whose approval has never been given for large cell size production. History is always a good thing to look at as a guide for future behavior and the Oil industry's history is replete with above board and below board (mostly below board) attacks on the electric vehicle industry from the 90's on many levels. To think they'd just be okay with plug-ins now doesn't take into account the future reduction in shareholder value large scale conversion to EV's would bring. Expect them to do anything they think they can get away with to delay or diminish future plug-in sales. If it will increase future shareholder value (i.e. increase or keep future oil demand as high as possible for as long as possible) you can bet the oil industry will make that happen whatever it is. Given the opportunity to tarnish, delay and kill plug-ins they would absolutely do so - its part of their fiduciary responsibility to enhance shareholder value.
      goodoldgorr
      • 3 Years Ago
      If they want to succeed they will have to add a gasoline electric recharger to the leaf like there is one in the volt. It cost less then a worldwide fast charger infrastructure and it's more practical. It will be still a bev but with an edge. Also it take a solar panel on the roof. Im not interrested to buy a bev without a gasoline recharger and a solar panel on the roof.
        Spec
        • 3 Years Ago
        @goodoldgorr
        Well Nissan is creating some PHEVs. But there is plenty of market space for both pure EVs and PHEVs.
          Letstakeawalk
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Spec
          "A PHEV is like Letstakeawalk adding a extra set of pedals to his bicycle. Ridiculous!" Actually, I've sometimes thought about getting a tandem bicycle. Not ridiculous at all. But more in the analogy of a PHEV would be a bike pedal/ICE hybrid. That would be really absurd - no, wait - that would be a *moped*. Also a very popular form of transportation for many people.
          EVSUPERHERO
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Spec
          No, no way, I see another ICE pollution machine on the road I am smashing into it. Anything that spews pollution is open season here in Oregon be it hybird, Extended pollution range or other, don't matter what it is if is spews forth pollutants... Smash. No market space for PHEVs... Smash This earth ain't big enough for the two of us. ICE has got to go. A PHEV is like Letstakeawalk adding a extra set of pedals to his bicycle. Ridiculous! Ghosn, can be leisurely bringing EV's to America, after all, "every day that the large OEM's do not build a EV is a good day for us", Carlos Ghosn. He is getting his wish with GM doing test fleets and no real production in site. Ford doing next to nothing, out sourcing their EV's and Chrysler is not even trying to fake it.
      Yegor
      • 3 Years Ago
      27,000 Leafs is very impressive! Kudos to Nissan!
      Sasparilla Fizz
      • 3 Years Ago
      Saw a live interview with him on CNBC this morning. He said he wasn't concerned about the Leaf sales in the U.S. (saying it was a consumer cost issue) and that he was expecting them to trend significantly upward in September after they switch to Dollar based Leaf pricing from the current Yen based Leaf pricing (as the US based production of the Leaf starts up in Smyrna, TN later this year). This would seem to imply a good whack to US based Leaf prices for the 2013 model (in addition to adding a 6.6kW Level 2 charger and a much better heating system to the vehicle). Frankly I'm amazed by this guy's vision and financial guts to go powering into this - I hope it pays off for Nissan.
        SVX pearlie
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Sasparilla Fizz
        "I'm amazed by this guy's vision and financial guts to go powering into this " What vision and guts? He stopped Leaf sales to save a few pennies. He's a fcuking retard.
          SVX pearlie
          • 3 Years Ago
          @SVX pearlie
          As demonstrated, Nissan can sell 1700+ in the US monthly. They're selling
          SVX pearlie
          • 3 Years Ago
          @SVX pearlie
          No, Fizz. When the Yen moved, he blinked. Simple as that. I'd kick his ass heads-up.
          Sasparilla Fizz
          • 3 Years Ago
          @SVX pearlie
          "He's a fcuking retard." Dude, that's why Nissan needs you, your name calling and your spelling to replace Ghosn as CEO. What vision and guts eh? Vision - launching the Leaf to begin with and launching it with worldwide large-scale production as part of that plan (nobody else has even come close to that). Guts - Continuing forward with that large-scale production (opening the other plants in the U.S. and Europe with massive investment) even though worldwide sales seem to be handled pretty well with the single facility in Japan so far. Vision - seeing that the Leaf is fundamentally different from an ICE car regarding the rapid pace of technology moving forward and updating the Leaf (replacing the heating system, adding the 6.6kW charger etc.) as time moves along instead of waiting for the normal 4-5 year update bump that we see. As far as the whole Yen pricing thing goes - unless you want to go for a subpar EV (like the Mitsubishi i) the Leaf is the standard for the mainstream EV in the US marketplace at the lowest price point. It'll be nice when they go to Dollar based pricing in the fall - but to say Ghosn has stopped Leaf sales in the U.S. seems overstating things in my opinion (anyone that wants one can order a Leaf and get it in a couple of months and that's been the same since they started taking Leaf orders). Which is where we come to in the end, our opinions - SVX pearlie your opinion is that Ghosn is a retard. I just disagree with that for the reasons listed above.
          Spec
          • 3 Years Ago
          @SVX pearlie
          What are you talking about with 'stopped Leaf sales'?
        brotherkenny4
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Sasparilla Fizz
        I hope your correct. They are really very close to the break even point, that is, where cost of total ownership is equal to or less than an equivolent small ICE car. Of course this depends on your personal driving habits and location, so I am implying this only for my own situation. Seriously though, I know in states that have additional tax incentives it's already a no brainer. Certain states have tax credits as high as 7500 in addition to the 7500 federal. That's 15K off 35K which mean 20K for the car. How could you not buy one?
          Spec
          • 3 Years Ago
          @brotherkenny4
          I firmly believe the TCO over the ENTIRE life of the car is less than an equivalent small ICE car. However, it does mean you have to put up with a short range car. Right now, this requires the tax-credit though. Eventually, it has to be true w/o a tax-credit.
      Ele Truk
      • 3 Years Ago
      Well that explains why Leaf sales numbers have been low the last couple months: 1. They are still supply limited, 2. They are shipping them elsewhere.
      Drivesolo
      • 3 Years Ago
      Ghosn's leadership of Nissan & Renault has been impressive. He's already in a league that separates him from other CEOs. If his predictions for 2020 come true (admittedly, I have my doubts), someone is going to have to start-up another new comic book series on they guy or something.
        SVX pearlie
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Drivesolo
        "If his predictions for 2020 come true" What? 10% EVs? Depending on how one defines "EV", I can't see that not happening. Let's look at GM. Last month, they sold 2300 Volt, 100k 30+ mpgh cars, which is a good start. But the big thing for them is eAssist, which is a moderately priced mileage enhancer, with a very small battery. Suppose, in next 3 years, they ride the battery-motor efficiencies to marginally increase the battery and motor, but add a 120V plug. This would be good for 10-15 miles on battery, at speeds up to 25 mph - EV for city driving. City mileage would be awesome. Call it eAssist "plus" Now, let's go through the GM sales. The *entire* Buick line should be eAssist "plus" or Voltec, so that'd be roughly 180k EVs from Buick. Caddy should have a Voltec coupe, probably selling 40k annually. GMC's CUVs should all be eAssist "plus" or Voltec as well, for another 200k EVs. And Chevy should be good for another 300k EVs. That's over 700k EVs out of 2.5M cars, or 28%. Or, going backward, GM needs to get to 10% out of 2.5M cars. That's only 250k cars. This year, GM is on track to sell 15k to 25k Volt. In 7 years, with powered by gen-2 Voltec-based Buick Electra, Caddy ELR coupe, Chevy Nomad / GMC Granite wagons, on top of the well-established Volt, it's hard to imagine that Voltec sales don't hit 250k.
        DaveMart
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Drivesolo
        From the photo, he is still wearing his underpants on the inside, but maybe only just! :-)
        Sasparilla Fizz
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Drivesolo
        Very true Drivesolo. That would be sales of ~1.5 million (I'm going to say plug-ins since I'm guessing that's what Ghosn is referring to instead of pure EV's) in 2020. I'd love to see that, but its a long way from where we are. ;-)
      Dan Frederiksen
      • 3 Years Ago
      Carlos Ghosn, when will you learn the significance of aerodynamics and weight reduction. they are huge opportunities that you are totally overlooking
        Spec
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Dan Frederiksen
        When will you realize that they actually consider these things and are doing what they think are best considering the trade-offs? Weight - Aluminum, carbon fiber, and composites are expensive and difficult manufacture cheaply. Aerodynamics - They need to create aerodynamic cars that are practical and do not significantly alienate buyers. The Aptera should be a raging success if weight and aero meant everything.
          Dan Frederiksen
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Spec
          you mean like they considered the electric car and decided to smash it?
      throwback
      • 3 Years Ago
      "... "we have to do it fast" because government incentives will not last forever." Talk about an understatement.
        Sasparilla Fizz
        • 3 Years Ago
        @throwback
        True, I've been wondering if Nissan would go for both a range increase and a price decrease for Leaf v2, but with this in mind maybe just going for lower cost and keeping the admittedly marginal range is the better choice.
      Dave
      • 3 Years Ago
      Nissan has dumped $4,000,000,0000 into EVs. If they somehow managed to make $1,000 profit on each, they would need to sell four million of them just to make their R&D money back. That could take a while.
        Dave D
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Dave
        The big boys spend $2Billion to build out a major production line for a new car. This is the price of admission in the big leagues. $4-5Billion to be first to market in a new niche they believe will take off....totally in the ball park with expectations.
        JakeY
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Dave
        That's not out of line with most R&D budgets. That budget is spread over multiple models too (this is just looking at the Leaf; there's also the Fluence, the Zoe, Twizy, NV200 EV, the Infiniti LE, etc). And you can't only look at one or two years of sales (and initial sales at that) when the investment is long term. Nissan and Renualt have a goal to sell 1.5 million EVs by 2016. That would put the R&D budget at $2667 per car. Hope that puts it into perspective for you.
        marcopolo
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Dave
        @Dave, Just a small point, but I think you got so excited that you added an extra zero! ( $40 billion would really be impressive.)
        Dave
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Dave
        BTW - I didnt say it won't happen. But 27,000 is just a drop in the bucket. At that rate, each cost $5B/27k = $185,000 in R&D alone.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Dave
          I suppose it is only a technical point, but that is not how Nissan do the costings. They allocate a percentage of turnover to R & D, and in their case a great deal has gone to electric cars. VW for instance has put a lot of it's R & D money into diesels. The money will never be charged specifically against their electric cars, it is already paid for. Any electric cars they do produce will contribute in exactly the same way to future R & D - maybe fuel cells, which would overjoy a lot here! ;-)
        DaveMart
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Dave
        Nah, spend by Nissan/Renault is around 4 billion Euros, not dollars. Say $5 billion.
          marcopolo
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          @Dave Mart, May not be relevant, but I see from Renault, Nissan etc annual reports (Stock-market reporting) that the figures are all calculated in US dollars for the entire group, and converted back to national currencies. Although, initially the figures must have been calculated in local currency. Given the fluctuating currency market, this must be quite and exercises! (Or do they just pick a set date?).
        garylai
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Dave
        If everyone thought like that we'd still be driving around in horse and buggy, and taking sailing ships to go overseas. Nissan is making a bold move in what it believes is the future of cars, and I applaud them for their visionary and long-term thinking. I also applaud GM and Ford and the other car companies making this investment.
      Sasparilla Fizz
      • 3 Years Ago
      Here's the interview with Ghosn at the NY Auto show, it starts out talking about the new Ultima but switches over to just the Leaf pretty quickly - good stuff. http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000082349&play=1
        DaveMart
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Sasparilla Fizz
        Full 35 minute speech and questions here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MdhKOr_9Tk He comments specifically on electric cars from about 24 minutes to around 28 minutes. Main takeaways are that he expects to hit 500,000 electric cars pa by 2015, after which they will not need subsidy but will be fully competitive. The whole thing is worth watching in my view, as it is inspirational stuff - and I am not easily impressed by such things.
          Sasparilla Fizz
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          Thanks for posting it DaveMart that was awesome! Folks watch the 24-28 minute section if you are a plugin enthusiast. Carlos is great on his feet and he knows right where he's taking Nissan with plug-ins at a speed nobody else is even entertaining in their wildest dreams. I hope he is right about just needing scale - if he is and its because of the economies of scale he'll be getting the pricing down - Nissan is just going to wipe the floor with everyone else at V2 (cause Nissan's prices will be so low comparatively). Just to clarify he was asked when he was expecting to have the Nissan battery plants being built running at full capacity (500,000 vehicle packs a year) and he said by 2015. All that said, I have a feeling Carlos is using different metrics for "fully competitive" by Leaf v2 than you and I would be, but we'll see. Unless Carlos has the miracle battery (1/4 of the price per kWh of the Leaf v1 battery) ready for Leaf v2 in 2015 it seems a stretch - Leaf v3 by 2020 seems more likely to me by common sense WAG. As an FYI this interview was probably a month or two ago (based on Carlos saying they were looking for 13-13.5 million vehicle sales US market for 2012 - in the CNBC interview today, NY auto show, he was saying 14.5 million) but an awesome viewing.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          Hi Sas. Around 500,000 vehicles or so is the level Nissan have always argued that volumes will be enough to match ICE prices without subsidy, and indeed in the video Ghosn makes the point explicitly that electric car pricing is now all about volume. The accountants at Nissan since it's near death experience have some of the sharpest pencils in the business, and I am confident of their costings. So I disagree that we will have to wait for 2020 for full cost comparability, and my own rough estimates show the same thing. To my mind the real game changer is Renault's initiative in battery leasing. This means that you can buy an electric car for around the same price as a diesel car, and lease the battery offsetting the costs of that against fuel cost savings. Purists are arguing that you still pay for the battery, so it is a gimmick. Well, so are mortgages, but they seem to have caught on. The current expansion in the US auto market has been powered by a drop in the credit ratings of people buying a new car - previously only those with ratings of A, or perhaps B, could obtain finance. Interest is also of course often higher for lower rated buyers. In practise it is much easier to get a loan for a cheaper car, and that is not going to much affect the ability to take out a lease on the battery. Many of the people buying cars, and especially vans, are sole traders or small businessmen, and they often have difficulty providing the documentation needed to obtain a large loan. I think in Europe at least that is going to power electric car sales, and Nissan are considering that model as well as Renault. I understand that there may be legal difficulties for offering it in the US, and for some reason many people there seem against leasing, unlike in Europe, or at least the UK. We do have an option to buy cars at the end of the lease period though, at a fixed price, so the difference between leasing and buying is largely in the eye of the taxman. For me, this summer and the reception given to the Zoe will be critical.
        DaveMart
        • 3 Years Ago
        @Sasparilla Fizz
        Many thanks. Take aways: The US will be supplied with a lot more Leaf cars after the battery plant starts up there in August so reducing costs, and even more so after US car production starts. The high yen is inhibiting sales at the moment. They hope to get a lot more sales without greatly reducing prices.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          Hi Sas. It's pretty clear that the Leaf price was forced up by the appreciation of the yen. I haven't followed US inflation figures closely enough to make an estimate of how much of the increase Nissan will feel able to give back, and Ghosn in the links says that they are not looking to make major price reductions. The name of the game at the moment is all about taking cost out, hence the reluctance to increase range. High oil prices should support Leaf prices, but by the autumn they should be seasonally falling, and indeed some analysts see a quite large drop in oil prices, although I am not convinced. At this stage of the technological game I see plug in hybrids as superior to BEVs, save for very expensive ones like the Tesla, so long as you can spring for the money. And that is GM's problem. They are carrying the cost of both a still costly electric drive train and of a full ICE. I think that they are in a more difficult position on costs than Nissan, and that will get worse after Nissan's US facilities open. They should be able to take out a fair amount of cost for Volt II, but by that time frame of around 2015 Nissan might be able to increase the range of pure electric vehicles and still be competitive, at least as an option. GM and Nissan are not the only big volume players though. Mitsubishi's new 50,000 battery packs a year factory has just opened, and they have a whole raft of different BEV and plug in vehicles coming. Perhaps the most exciting, and the first entry, is the plug in Mitsubishi Outlander. That moves small SUVs into the electric world, and the potential market is huge. It will make them practical for a lot of folk in the country, as well as suburban moms! ;-)
          Sasparilla Fizz
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          I think you are right DaveMart. For 2013, I think Nissan needs to drop prices back down to original Leaf prices to get the numbers back up (don't know if that's too much for Nissan, we'll see this fall). I also think that while GM with its 65,000 Volt capacity was way ahead of any of the other big automakers thinking about plug-ins (except Nissan) - Nissan's all out full ICE size scale of EV plugin production is on a totally different level altogether (literally trying to use scale to reduce significant cost reductions). Nissan and Ghosn are so bold - they want to win the war by 2015ish and nobody else will be ready at their scale. If the bet by Nissan pays off, and that scale is the key to getting prices down dramatically (not waiting on battery tech till 2020), they will just eat everyone else alive when they can drive the prices down via that scale (Leaf v2 etc.). We'll just have to wait and see. I feel for the folks at GM in this - they shot for the moon and achieved it with the Volt (65,000 yearly capacity through 2015 way beyond anyone else) - they had no idea that Nissan was going for Mars with full ICE scale (4 model) EV / Plug-in production over the next several years.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          I suspect the same process is at work at GM. They are not so much sales constrained as trying to figure out how not to loose too much money on each one. As I have argued elsewhere they are in a tougher spot than Nissan, as there are more bits in a plug in hybrid and so cost reduction is even tougher. After all, the Leaf effectively has only another 8kwh of battery compared to the Volt, but does without the ICE engine, gearbox, exhaust system, and on and on. Even with the high yen, I suspect that things are a lot easier for Nissan/Renault than the are for GM.
      SVX pearlie
      • 3 Years Ago
      "the Leaf is still constrained by supply, given the earthquake and tsunami in Japan last year AS WELL AS THE STRONG YEN" Emphasis added. In other words, Nissan *could* build the cars for the US, but chooses not to, because it's not profitable enough? Nissan should be selling 15k cars in the US. Pretend they actually lose $1k on each one, and that's $15M down the tubes. This is a brand new segment, and establishing market dominance was the entire purpose of rushing the car out the door. It's the entire reason Nissan claimed 20,000 preorders in 2010. It's why they raced so hard to sell Leaf #1 days before Chevy sold Volt #1. It's the entire point of standing up a second line in Symrna. Nissan poured billions into this, and now, for a few million bucks, literally pennies on the dollar, they're changing boats mid-stream? Is Ghosn retarded?
        Spec
        • 3 Years Ago
        @SVX pearlie
        Where is the 'changing boats mid-stream'? It seems like they are continuing with the same plan . . . am I missing something?
          Spec
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Spec
          @SVX Ah . . . I see. Well, I have no problem with them diverting Japanese Leafs to other markets while waiting for the Smyrna plant to come on line. The only thing I ask is that they drop the price of the Leaf once Smyrna comes on line. $35K is too expensive. What is wrong with letting the Volt catch up? I want all the EV makers to succeed. I think this obsession with mindshare does not matter. Yeah, maybe sales have slowed since some dealers near me are asking $38K for a Leaf . . . at that price, the $40K Volt is a better deal. But all they have to do is provide a better value proposition to restore market share. Open up the Smyrna plant, drop the price down to $32K and thus have a nice little EV for $24.5K after tax credit. Sales will come right back.
          SVX pearlie
          • 3 Years Ago
          @Spec
          The old plan was to push hard, fast and establish market leading position and mind share. That's exactly where Nissan was in the fall of 2011. Nissan built strong momentum as the first OEM EV out the gate, the first to hit big numbers sold to the public. They had the right story and the right push, and it was a perfectly executed launch. However, starting Q4 last year, things changed. The new plan is to go slow to wait for Smyrna to come on line 2H / Q4 2012. Nissan slowed US sales to a trickle, and allowed the Volt to catch up. Worse yet, they allowed the Volt to pass them in total sales. And now, the PiP is ahead on monthly sales. That's a huge change. Nissan is no longer volume leader, and running third on the monthly chart. Nissan has squandered the good work of 2011, and now is forced into a catch-up position against GM and Toyota. If the MIEV sells 500+ per month, the Leaf will be an also-ran. As CEO, if BEVs are the company's future, the the strategy should have been to ramp up and sell like crazy, to dominate the US market conclusively. Which is what that 2011 2.5k sales cushion should have allowed them to do pretty easily. Given the massive overall volume bump Nissan got in March, they should have had plenty of cash to allow Leaf sales to continue selling it at cost or small loss, retaining market and mindshare leadership.
        DaveMart
        • 3 Years Ago
        @SVX pearlie
        I'm getting pretty ticked off by your throwing around the word 'retarded'. 1. it's offensive, as some people actually are, and no one has the right to use that as a term of abuse. 2. When you are one of the most respected auto industry executives in the world, and have turned around a major manufacturer, and have been seminal in getting electric cars into the market, them you might have the right to be somewhat critical, but would still have no right to be personally abusive. Cut is out, and get some manners.
          marcopolo
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          @Dave Mart, (Sigh) It's impossible not to agree with you. It's sad that some quite intelligent posts contain gratuitously offencive abuse. Mostly, such terminology indicates the writers frustration with his own sense of impotence and inability to understand complex issues. But, although I applaud you efforts, I think you are fighting a losing battle !
          Sasparilla Fizz
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          DaveMart +1
          EVSUPERHERO
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          Wrong SVX, no one is going slow. Last I checked the plant was going day and night in Japan producing Leafs. Why should they sell to the slow witted Americans sheep's that can't pull their heads out of their gas to spite themselves. Americans will be the last to adapt, is that not obvious to you. Ghosn has it right, sell to the home land. The Yen and no shipping make it a no brainer. Next is Europe as he gets more profit. Americana's are slow to adapt so no hurry here the gas is cheap. The Tenn. plant will come on line then Americans will get more. Ghosn is the man, GM asked him to be their CEO, he would have been crazy to except. Is that okay David Martin, crazy? Don't tell me you have crazy people in England so I can't use that word. Dan F, WTH is wrong with you? Do you have a memory at all? Every one knows who has been on this site for 3 years knows David Martin is a Red Coat. For a self appointed brainyack you might want to strengthen your memory. Spec, stop winening about cost and become a early adopter. You can tell you grand children, "yea, I recall when every one was standing around looking at each other and would not buy the first EV's available, so I stepped up, some time you just have to lead, you young wipper snapper you!
          Dan Frederiksen
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          EVsup, I can't really keep track of trivialities of all people, especially not over cutesy nickname changes. I didn't get smart by trying to remember the irrelevant. if you so agree with Dave, then perhaps try some courtesy.
          SVX pearlie
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          The "R-word" isn't the "N-word". Never will be. It's a perfectly reasonable word to describe unbelieveably, incredibly, irrationally stupid. Besides, "retard" is easier to type than "imbecile".
          Dan Frederiksen
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          Dave, that's a lot of BS. using the word retarded doesn't change the condition of those actually conventionally retarded. nor is anyone using it in the sense of conventional retardation. your drama queen outburst is just that. sickly american spirit yearning to be offended just for the sake of it. if you want to object to anything it should be to calling Ghosn retarded in this instance. only I'm allowed to do that : ) because I can actually see areas where he could benefit from my input. but he is fairly smart. certainly the big car CEO I prefer. although that's not saying much. the real question is, what should we do about people who choose to be stupid, who needs correction. if we cannot use harsh words then how do we reach them? if you figure that out then you could offer an alternative to using words like retarded. I have experimented a lot with reaching deadheads and I'm not really sure if anything has worked. extreme confidence and assertiveness seems to slow them down a little but I'm not sure they really change. if someone calls a retard a retard, then you can object. that's not nice. calling a republican retarded seems only fair. and frankly they need to hear it. they confuse courtesy with tacit approval and behold the result. evil men ruin the world while the meek look on. but if you have a better way I'd like to hear it. how do we correct those who violently embrace stupidity. can humanity only learn through death of generations. if even that.
          DaveMart
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          SVX: You seem to have difficulties in empathy. Many people have children or relations who have various levels of difficulty in coping mentally or physically, but you think that it is perfectly OK without regard to their sensibilities to use this as a term of abuse. It is easy to be an internet hero, but if you came to the local pub where a couple of guys have kids who have problems, you would be speedily picked up on abusive behaviour like that, As I said, get some manners, get some respect, and do grow up from the lack of empathy of a 15 year old with no role models.
          SVX pearlie
          • 3 Years Ago
          @DaveMart
          Don't go full retard on us. There will always be a shorthand for stupids, whether it's "retard", "dumbass", "moron". or simply "special". Trying to take a word away is pointless. It'll simply be replaced by the next word.
        Ele Truk
        • 3 Years Ago
        @SVX pearlie
        Nissan is investing BILLIONS in the new Leaf plant in Smyrna TN. Once it is online, they will be produced in the USA. Until then, they are made where they are made, in Japan. But the plant is scheduled to start producing this year.
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