Owning an electric car with a reasonable range could be a very practical solution for many drivers. After all, pulling into the garage at the end of the day and plugging in your car can be a huge time saver if it means you can forgo the gas pump, not to mention the potential environmental benefits. That is, if you have access to a plug.

As we recently found out after driving a 2011 Nissan Leaf for a week, the availability of electrical outlets can be a major downer on EV ownership. Our test car spent a week in the Phoenix, AZ area, and was parked overnight in a covered parking garage. No problem, since there were indeed unused outlets in the structure, so we could plug it in. Except that we couldn't.

It seems the property management company that oversees the garage decided that electric cars were not allowed to draw power. The problem, as so often is the case, came down to monetary concerns. It seems that, without having a way to measure how much power was being consumed by the electric car, management decided it could not accurately charge the driver for any electricity consumed. This is despite the fact that the garage serves a building with tenants that pay the electricity bill.

We understood the monetary aspects involved, so we offered to pay the property management company a fee of their choosing (after jointly considering local rates) to use an outlet for a week, which was declined. The end result? We charged the Leaf at the nearest local Nissan dealer free of charge.

It turns out ours wasn't an isolated issue. According to a report from TheTruthAboutCars.com, at least one Chevrolet Volt owner in Ontario, Canada has been blocked from charging his car in his unit's parking garage unless he installs his own separate charging system. Interestingly enough, something similar also happened to Derek Kreindler, who wrote the story for TTAC.

We don't really see an easy solution to this problem, so we suggest speaking to your property management company, if applicable, before signing on the electrified dotted line... or at least know where your nearest fast charger is located.


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    • 1 Second Ago
  • 197 Comments
      • 2 Years Ago
      In other words: "EV owners told not to buy condos." Fair enough. There's lots of reasons owning a condo (or a house with a strong homeowners association) might be a poor choice. The reason to I prefer own, rather than rent, is the freedom to do what I want with my property, including installing electrical outlets. You loose a lot of that freedom with a homeowners association, so if you own a home for the reason I do, then the homeowners association greatly diminishes the value of the home (to me). Other people seem to have different opinions on this topic, and they're free to spend the rest of their lives negotiating their lifestyles with their boards -- different strokes for different folks, I guess. P.S. People wishing to install PV panels in neighborhoods with homeowners associations that regulate the appearance of houses have the same problem. The people who live in such neighborhoods argue that making sure everyone mows their lawn and keeps their house looking a certain way keeps the value up. That may be true, just so long as they don't intend to sell the house to me specifically -- nevermind that I'm probably in an educated/skilled demographic that would be buying a fancy house. My MacGyver complex makes me riff-raff, I guess. Good thing there are so many nice houses that aren't encumbered this way! :-)
      Yegor
      • 2 Years Ago
      It is so simple: Condo owners should just ask a Volt owner to pay $1 per day - the amount it cost to full charge Volt for one day. OK may be $1.3 per day in case he will charge occasionally twice a day. There is no need to installs his own expensive separate charging system!
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Yegor
        Condo owners *should* be able to handle it however they want to. After all, they have a responsibility to provide the best value for *all* of their tenants, not just those with electric cars. It does strike me that there is a potential opportunity for these property managers. They could charge EV owners an extra $1.50 to $2 per day (assuming the actual cost is $1 to $1.30, as you say - I don't have any idea). There would be nothing wrong with making a slight profit on the deal, as there is a service being provided. On the other hand, if the property managers don't want to be bothered with administering such a system (and assuring their electrical infrastructure is up to the task...), there is nothing wrong with them putting a policy in place that says owners cannot charge their vehicles there unless they first install their own separate charging system.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          Yeah, condo owners are moving slow. They usually hate change anyway. But it is another thing when a condo association doesn't even let you bring in a charger installer to do an estimate... like they did to this guy.
          Ele Truk
          • 2 Years Ago
          The problem is that installing a charger can cost a condo up to $5000 per car (including if needed concrete work, electrical work, inspections and the whole board voting on it mess). At $2 per day, they are still going to take years to recoup the cost. Not exactly a money making opportunity.
      nitrostreet
      • 2 Years Ago
      You'd think someone could make a little plugin meter for this
        Joeviocoe
        • 2 Years Ago
        @nitrostreet
        http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RGF29Q/
      Joeviocoe
      • 2 Years Ago
      It is probably because the effort to do the accounting is not worth the $7 they would get from 1 Leaf owner parking for a week. (40 miles a day, 250wh/mile, 10 kwh/day, 10 cents/kwh, $1/day, $7/week) Condo associations must account for every dollar spent or received with paperwork. They aren't exactly efficient, and the accountant probably only works part time for the condo. And they don't want to say, "just take the power for free". As that would set a precedent that would hurt them when they finally have several EV owners that they would like to charge.
      Ashraf Wagdy
      • 2 Years Ago
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      • 1 Year Ago
      I was told flatly by my condo board and residents to not consider purchasing an EV if i were to continue living there. There are no provisions to retrofit charging stations and create payment schedules for such thing. What should I do? Move? Scrap the idea of owning an EV? Anyone have real experiences with http://www.parkplug.ca/condocharge.html?
      • 1 Year Ago
      This is a real concern for me, a possible plug-in hybrid buyer. I live in a condo & have an indoor parking spot. I have already sent emails to management regarding possible installation of a charging station, AT MY EXPENSE, in the garage.
      PeterScott
      • 2 Years Ago
      I am pro EV. I want to get an EV someday when the economics/situation works for me. But EV owners like Mike do EV owners a disservice. He is looking to add a new service/privilege to a 40 year old property. This isn't a right. Typically if you want something like this you need an extremely conciliatory attitude and have all your facts in order. Mikes approach was entitled, confrontational and his representation of facts quite dubious. Couple this with parking in Visitor parking and running a cord to the only full service outlet in the Garage, intended for Vacuuming your car and he paints EV owners as sneaky power thieves. Influencing 101: You need to look at the issue from the perspective of those you are trying to convince. Convince them why it is in their interest, not act like this is an entitled and hint you will sue. Use Mike as a lesson of what not to do, because with his attitude, he is looking at certain rejection.
        Joeviocoe
        • 2 Years Ago
        @PeterScott
        I actually agree with the majority of what you are saying here. Mike is terrible at persuasion, confrontational (although I am sure that after months of trying to get this done and being pushed off, would make anybody confrontational). He does not have any rights in this case. He did not get incontrovertable proof of his facts beforehand (although I think his estimates are well within reason). And he shouldn't have parked in the Visitor parking if he wanted to get on the board's good side. I think he has very valid and logical points... but you don't win over a condo board (or any stubborn person) with logic. ----- There is a discrepancy about being "entitled" though. Condo "ownership" is a misnomer. It is less like ownership and more like renting with equity. Ownership implies certain freedom and separation from the other tenants. But they share power and split the bill. But alas, he agreed to follow their rules. And they are not obliged to bend in any way to one tenant... everything is done for the community property as a whole. Even though this one concession won't harm other tenants... the condo board fears it may.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          Yes, I saw that chart the first time you posted that site. That is an "average" for residential customers. If you look, that is EXACTLY what it says. So residents who use much less or much more than the average user... surprise, would pay a different percentage. The point still stands. The "fair share" you speak of is not at all fair. He should pay what is added to the bill... not some inflated number. He should pay what he adds to the bill.... not some re-amortized amount. HE IS ALREADY A TENANT!! SO HE ALREADY PAYS HIS SHARE OF THOSE UTILITY FEES. You want him to pay twice. Where are the two bills I asked for? They will show that those extra fees don't scale as much as the base rate (listed cents/kwh). Here's a question that your precious "just divide the total bill" simplistic math cannot solve: How much money do you pay on your electricity bill when you go on vacation for a month and turn off all your breakers??? Not $0, that's for sure... There are lower limits that your utility will charge... They may still charge you $10 or so dollars... divide by zero... I dare you. Same goes for large bills... the weighted amount of the fees DECREASES. *this does not account for tiered pricing where you can suddenly jump to a new pricing and fee schedule.* --------------- Oh, and the stubborn condo board would not let Mike get an inspector to estimate the cost of a separate utility meter.
          PeterScott
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          Joe, Mincing over pennies on the Power rate is exactly the kind of thing that will likely further alienate Condo boards. Why should someone claiming they want to pay their fair share of electricity Bill, not pay their fair share of ALL parts of that bill in proportion to their usage? In Ottawa, the KWh rate is LESS than 50% of the electricity cost. It is Only 43% of the total according to this: http://www.hydroone.com/RegulatoryAffairs/RatesPrices/Pages/ElectricityPrices.aspx If you just quote the KWh electricity rate, you are actually ignoring the majority of the cost of electricity in Ottawa. That is disingenuous to say the least. I have no idea what bulk numbers are for a huge Condo, but I do also not that once residential customers move over a certain threshold, their RATE INCREASES. These kind of arguments, are why I think completely separate metering would be the only solution, to Mikes "generous" offer of $10-$20/month. If I was dealing with either you or Mike, I would say the same thing, get your own meter from the utility and deal with them.
          Schmart Guy
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          Joe, Hydro One Brampton is my supplier, so the numbers won't be exactly the same as Ottawa. One month I used 189 kWh and the extra fees were $20.03, which works out to about $0.106/kWh. Another month I used 395 kWh with $27.62 in extra fees, which works out to about $0.070/kWh. The delivery fee was the biggest chunk and varied the most with usage.
          PeterScott
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          If he has valid logical points, they are hard to find in his rambling hyperbole and rhetoric. He shoots out Gems like: "The absolute maximum the car could use is $30-$40 a month, but that only if it was up on a jack with the wheels spinning 24/7". He intermixes, I will pay statements, with why do you even care about $10-$20/month, its the same as other residents running their appliance/heaters more... He drops veiled threats about legal action and going to the media (which he did). He didn't ask before buying his car. This one is quite revealing. All this to me adds up to someone not very trustworthy. I live a similar situation, with shared electrical costs, except the plug at my assigned space is not cycled, I have used it in the summer to vacuum my car. So in theory I could have a Volt or similar and plug in there to recharge. I have even thought about it, but never for one second would I consider doing so without permission. Anyone doing so is trying to pull a fast one, and they know it. The only number that makes sense from a Condo board if not separately metered is a surcharge equal to Full Charge KWh X Full Effective Power Rate X Days in Month. They aren't going to do this on the honor system, especially when you have someone like Mike who has demonstrated little honor. For A Volt the Surchage for January could be: 13KWh X 15c X 31 days = $60.45 Far eclipsing Mikes 24/7 wheels spinning number.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          Using your Pizza analogy... what if the guy was NOT a 3rd guy that just showed up? What if he, and the other two guys split the entire cost of the pizza, delivery, tax, and tip... evenly. But he then wanted to add a 12oz soda. The soda adds to the tax.. but NOT the tip or delivery charge (although some are particular about the tip percentage being constant). The two other guys are D-Bags for telling him to pay a new percentage of the total bill... as if he is a new guy and didn't already pay his share of the delivery charge. The devil is in the details... Mike has ALREADY paid his share of those extra utility fees... and should only be responsible to pay the exact amount the total bill has INCREASED... not a new percentage.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          "The only number that makes sense from a Condo board if not separately metered is a surcharge equal to Full Charge KWh X Full Effective Power Rate X Days in Month." Unfortunately, that is correct. The Condo Board wants to see simplistic numbers even if they don't reflect reality. It is a testament to ignorance about EVs and the stubbornness against learning the actual facts. The fact that many people don't fully exhaust the full EV range on a Volt. "13KWh X 15c X 31 days = $60.45" Ignoring for a moment the assumption that 7 days a week, Mike would be fully depleting the pack (13 kwh) That 15 cents is still unproven and absurd. The cost per kwh in Ottawa is 10c/kwh during the day and 6.2c/kwh at night. The true cost, adding in slight increases in other fees on the bill... doesn't get you to 15c/kwh... 15cents/kwh derived by simply dividing the total by the kwh used, frankly, is for people not skilled at math. Just like folks that don't understand compound interest. Please show me two separate bills from Hydro Ottawa so I can prove it. It takes a bit more math than one division operation... but I am sure you can follow along.
      Anderlan
      • 2 Years Ago
      This is dumb. Solution: a kill-a-watt device will record how many kilowatt-hours you've used since you plugged it in. If the proprietors have the manpower to enforce the rule against any charging, they have enough manpower to verify the reading! Take all you want for free, or pay the utility subscriber for what you take, it's up to the subscriber whether they want to be a jerk about it or not! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l_mo1jwh8Y http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/
        PeterScott
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Anderlan
        Listen to the board meeting I posted before. They really don't want to meter his electricity and charge him, they think it is illegal for them to do this anyway. They want him to get his own meter from the actual power utility and get billed separately by the utility. They want nothing to do with enforcement or billing. As far as having the manpower to stop him from charging. They said the are probably going to disconnect the plug he is using, which apparently is the only one in the parking garage that delivers constant power.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PeterScott
          "The Garage is separately metered/billed separately from the Condos. It is shared parking garage, between two buildings, with two separate boards, they pay half of the electricity each." Ahhhh... yeah, I just listened again. It is at the very beginning and there is a lot of background noise. It looks like there are too many bureaucracies. If there are two condo associations And it seemed like the "other" condo didn't want to allow an electrician. HE WAS DOOMED from the very start. A single condo board is hard enough to deal with.. and he is getting the runaround from two. It is very easy to shift responsibility so that things NEVER get done.
          PeterScott
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PeterScott
          Minor distinction, but he asked them to consider bringing in an electrician, to estimate work, they don't approve of (wiring up his personal space with an unmetered outlet). Didn't sound like they were stopping him from getting an estimate. From the way that was worded, sounded more like he wanted them to do it. No surprise they aren't going out of their way to get an estimate for work they don't approve of. Why get an estimate for work they don't approve. The estimate he wanted was for an unmetered outlet to his personal parking spot. Something they don't approve. An estimate for that is kind of pointless. They told him to come up with a solution that can be charged back to him. Also listening to the audio again reveals a bit more: The Garage is separately metered/billed separately from the Condos. It is shared parking garage, between two buildings, with two separate boards, they pay half of the electricity each. The other board is even more against this and see this as someone in the other building using extra power.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PeterScott
          Yet, they won't allow him to bring in somebody to get an estimate... the runaround is the polite way to F*** Off.
      • 2 Years Ago
      The thing overlooked in most of the EV hype is that almost everyone (including the government and dealers) wants to use "average" rates, usually quoted in the 10 to 12 cents/kwh range. But (I'm in Califiornia) my marginal rate right now is $0.33276/kwh, the sad result of years of years of poor planning and rolling over for the green lobby. Pretty much makes EVs a non-starter, and I'd absolutely agree with landlords and HOAs that don't want to shoulder this type of cost
        Dave D
        • 2 Years Ago
        Bill, You noted your "marginal rate". And everyone feels really bad for you. Did you explain to everyone how much you paid for the first 3 tiers you burned through before you got to that marginal rate?
          JakeY
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Dave D
          He is on PG&E, basically paying the highest rate (tier 4 & 5 costs the same). The rate schedule is here: http://www.pge.com/tariffs/Res_111101-111231.xls Tier 1 (Baseline): $0.12233/kWh Tier 2 (101-130% Baseline): 0.13907 Tier 3 (131-200% Baseline): 0.29276 Tier 4 (201-300% Baseline): 0.33276 Tier 5 (300% + Baseline): 0.33276 I assume you know how tiered rates work (ex: the $0.33276/kWh rate only applies to usage above the 201%; it doesn't mean you pay that rate for your entire usage).
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Dave D
          Thanks Jake... The FUD index on ABG is high right now... and we need to fight back with some facts. Thank you.
        JakeY
        • 2 Years Ago
        In your case, if you get a plug-in, you might benefit from a second meter and off peak rates depending on the installation costs. It seems you are tier 4 (200-300% baseload) on PG&E (basically the max amount you can pay, tier 5 costs the same). A good idea is to use some of the recent energy usage reduction incentives to improve the efficiency of your house, and you might also benefit from a solar panel. I only pay 9.38¢/kWh on SMUD, max of 18.30¢/kWh if I am over baseload. On PG&E I pay tier 1 (below baseload): $0.12233/kWh.
        Spec
        • 2 Years Ago
        The California system uses a progressive rate system, so if you are up in those high rates, it is because you run your house inefficiently. Swap out your incandescents with CFLS or LEDs. Put your entertainment center on power-strip that you can turn all off with the flip of a single switch. Use natural gas for heat, hot water, and your dryer. You'll then find your electricity bill drop like a stone. And regarding EVs, you can get a time-of-use rate that will give you $0.05/KWH at off-peak times.
        Joeviocoe
        • 2 Years Ago
        Geez, why is your rate so high... I was in San Diego and it was about 14 cents / kwh ???? The California average is 13 cents. http://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/california/ The fact that you pay nearly 3 times as much suggests that there is something you're not telling us. Would charging your EV at night mean you pay at the "marginal rate"?
      • 2 Years Ago
      Green Welfare Queens get a subsidy to buy the dumb things and now complain they might have to pay to charge or install equipment. Ahhhh, so sad.
        Dave D
        • 2 Years Ago
        Do you have a reading problem their Rich? Is that a real hard skill for you to master? They TRIED TO PAY FOR THE ELECTRICITY! THEY TRIED TO PAY EXTRA FOR THE ELECTRICITY and the condo association wouldn't even let them. You're too f'ing stupid to argue with...forget it.
        Joeviocoe
        • 2 Years Ago
        READ THE ARTICLE! http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/01/27/ottawa-condo-electric-car-battle.htmlActual Board meeting MP3:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5364/voltstory/meeting.mp3 He offered to pay, even more than he consumed. But they said it wasn't about the money. They were worried about other condo owners might want access to a plug too.
          PeterScott
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          I live in Ottawa and I am much more familiar with the facts around here. You are quoting the only the KWh rate. We pay very high distribution and debt retirement charges and taxes, such that our total rate is nearly double the KWh rate: http://www.hydroone.com/MyHome/MyAccount/MyBill/Pages/default.aspx Also why 10KWh per day, It takes 13 KWh to fully charge a Volt. Average daily miles driven in the USA is 40 miles. I can't find Canadian numbers but they will likely be similar. http://www.bts.gov/programs/national_household_travel_survey/daily_travel.html That would mean exhausting the battery every day. So just like Mike, you are lowballing on Charging, and you are lowballing on Power rates. This is not going to convince people to trust that EV owners are looking to get some free power.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          Although those extra charges (Debt retirement charge, Delivery, and Regulatory charges) DO in fact change based on consumption amount (in kwh)... THEY DO NOT change linearly! You cannot simply divide the total bill with the total kwh power consumed and think that you can get a accurate cents/kwh. That is not how that works. Those extra charges DO change, but more slowly. So if he adds 300 kwh every month... to a bill that is already $5,000 Canadian Dollars... and the rate for off-peak is 6.2 cents/kwh... he will increase the the bill by $18.60 AND MAYBE add a few cents in extra charges. But the higher the initial bill... the less impact a few extra kwh will add to extraneous charges. That is why they don't simply apply those charges a steady additional cents/kwh value.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          Using your Pizza analogy... what if the guy was NOT a 3rd guy that just showed up? What if he, and the other two guys split the entire cost of the pizza, delivery, tax, and tip... evenly. But he then wanted to add a 12oz soda. The soda adds to the tax.. but NOT the tip or delivery charge (although some are particular about the tip percentage being constant). The two other guys are D-Bags for telling him to pay a new percentage of the total bill... as if he is a new guy and didn't already pay his share of the delivery charge. The devil is in the details... Mike has ALREADY paid his share of those extra utility fees... and should only be responsible to pay the exact amount the total bill has INCREASED... not a new percentage.
          PeterScott
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          Joe, you are essentially behaving just like Mike. Another example of what not to do. He, like you, need to stop suggesting weaseling out of genuinely equitable arrangements. If two friends are ordering a Pizza and a third guy shows up and says he wants in, and will pay his full share without question, but then only calculates based on base Pizza cost, while ignore the Tip, Delivery charge, taxes... claiming they were going to pay that before he showed up. That guy is a being D-Bag. If you are trying to gather goodwill, you don't stiff them power costs. You need to pay a fair share of the full cost of power including, deliver, debt retirement, taxes, everything. Simply total $Power Bill/KWh delivered = equitable power rate. Still probably a better deal than getting your own meter and being charged by the Utility as a separate entity. Which is what the Condo Board wants.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          "He, like you, need to stop suggesting weaseling out of genuinely equitable arrangements." I was about to suggest that you are acting like the board member... doesn't want to come to any agreement. "You need to pay a fair share of the full cost of power including, deliver, debt retirement, taxes, everything. " Agreed. "Simply total $Power Bill/KWh delivered = equitable power rate. " But wrong equation. Simple math for people unable to calculate real costs. Show me two separate Hydro Ottawa power bills (preferably multi-thousand dollar bills) and I will show you how to calculate the cost of extra. "Still probably a better deal than getting your own meter and being charged by the Utility as a separate entity. Which is what the Condo Board wants." Then why did he say that the Condo board refused his request to bring in an electrician for an estimate to put in a meter?
          PeterScott
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          You keep saying this Joe, but he is low balling the estimate, so it doesn't sound like more than consumed, it sounds like less. The only numbers he every stated were $10-$20 month, and claimed the Volt was similar to a small appliance.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @Joeviocoe
          I keep saying it... because you are "highballing" the estimates. Talk to Volt owners, you will see how little they pay in electricity. Look at power rates for Ottawa... 10 cent/kwh for On-peak usage, 6 cents for Off-Peak usage... yet you want to "high ball" with 15 cents. 10 kwh per day is very normal usage... and that is $18 per month. You claim $60, but that ain't gonna happen.
      Chuck
      • 2 Years Ago
      There is a simple and cheap way to measure how much energy was used and it's called a Kill-o-Watt meter. They sell for less than $30 on the internet. It measures everything you need to know and displays it with a touch of a button. I use mine all the time for every EV I own. Once I show the owner of an outlet how little my vehicle consumes they usually say yeah go ahead and the money is too small to worry about.
        PeterScott
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Chuck
        If you listen to what the Condo board said, anything they use has to Electrical Code approved, not some consumer gadget. They need a real Hydro approved meter, if they are going to meter. AFAIK, the Kill-o-Watt meter is not approved for outdoor usage. He is parking at an outdoor spot.
          Snowdog
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PeterScott
          A big part of the issue is the Condo Board doesn't trust Mike. There is no way a temporary plug in meter that can be reset, unplugged, tampered with will ever give them any confidence. You would have a much better shot just using manufacturer numbers.
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PeterScott
          "A big part of the issue is the Condo Board doesn't trust Mike." Yeah, possibly because he doesn't seem very tactful. A lockable enclosure could be used... but I doubt Mike is knowledgeable enough to offer that solution. Being an engineer, I could make an outdoor, fully safety rated, lockable box using a Kill-o-watt meter. *of course, Mike would be charged for anybody else plugging in, but I doubt he would mind paying that too* He already offered to pay up to $1,000 to have an electrician install a proper meter, permanently. But the board didn't allow the inspection to happen. ----------- Question: Does the Volt's Odometer show EV only miles? Or does it have total charge amount displayed, Like Nissan's Carwings interface? Something to show the board every month?
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PeterScott
          The consumer "gadget" is still approved and certified by UL (Underwriters Laboratory). Yes, it is not for outdoor use... that is why you can get an enclosure for about $20. Yes, I listened to the condo board.. and they sounded like a bunch of negative, "can't be done" older folks who are afraid of actually doing any work or compromising in any way. Mike was willing to do a lot, pay more than his share... and when he asked the board members, "what do I need to do/pay to make this happen"... he keeps getting, "we'll get back to you".
          Joeviocoe
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PeterScott
          If you actually paid any attention to the original post that you replied to, you would know that we were talking about a VERY temporary solution just to prove to the condo board how little power the Volt actually consumes. Nobody suggested this as a permanent solution. You are just being contradictory to any new ideas... Just like the condo board.
          PeterScott
          • 2 Years Ago
          @PeterScott
          Joe, you are living in some kind of dreamland if you think that kind of solution would fly with property managers anywhere. They don't go for some kind of indoor consumer gear, in a box as a real solution for electrical metering.
        Joeviocoe
        • 2 Years Ago
        @Chuck
        $20 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/travelpower/7657/
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