A raft of production delays slowed the arrival of the first Fisker Karma. Though the initial round of vehicles were finally delivered, the delays mean that Fisker will only ship 1,500 of the four door plug-in hybrids in 2011, well short of the original target of 7,000.

There has been an effort to turn Fisker into a scandal and these lower production numbers are enough to fan the flames. Fisker has received loans totaling $529 million from the Department of Energy, a number that puts the company within $6 million of the assistance lent to failed solar-panel maker Solyndra. Fisker's partners at A123 Systems have been forced to chop their earnings estimates for 2011, since fewer Karmas out the door means fewer A123 batteries sold. To some, it all has the look of failure.

However, Fisker Chairman Ray Lane says that the issues in 2011 were a combination of difficulties faced by any start up – such as problems with the electrical system that didn't appear until production was underway – and some one-off disasters. For example, a flood soaked the initial shipment of leather delivered for the car's interior, leaving Fisker with 250 vehicles that were ready to go, except for seats, dashboards, steering wheels and every other surface that needed to be covered in cowhide.

With the Freshman year drawing to a close, Lane is convinced that Fisker will hit its mark in 2012. According to Lane, Fisker still plans to meet projections of 15,000 Karmas delivered in 2012. A123 is taking a more cautious approach, projecting around 7,000 vehicles. Either number would actually be very good for a car that has a base price of $96,000. Even the 7,000-unit sales number would exceed the annual sales of such well-known $100k sedans as the Maserati Quattroporte or Audi R8. Those cars don't have any green chic, though, and that might make all the difference.


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    • 1 Second Ago
  • 69 Comments
      Levine Levine
      • 4 Days Ago
      Frisker and the Karma will go bankrupt in 2012. The gig is up.
        Nick
        • 4 Days Ago
        @Levine Levine
        You'd be happy if that would happen, wouldn't you? The brain-damaged so-called patriots really are scum.
          Marco Polo
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Nick
          @Ezee Congratulations on passing your qualifications for a senior civil service position. Now all we have to do is get you a Ivy league law degree, and everything you say will have at least 17 different interpretations!
          EZEE
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Nick
          @Marco... I really need to upgrade my vocabulary. You, or PR for that matter (when he isn't really pissed) have such creative ways of being deragatory... I mean, if I said: "Children need good schools if they are to learn properly." You or PR would say: High-quality learning environments are a necessary precondition for facilitation and enhancement of the ongoing learning process. See? Sounds way cooler....
          Marco Polo
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Nick
          @Ezee, Perhaps Nick's choice of adjectives may be a little florid, but it's perfectly suited to describe terminal pests who deliberately and persistently, post such obtuse remarks.
          EVnerdGene
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Nick
          Hey PR, check your panties, they always seem to be in a knot. I thought I could make any somewhat-on-topic comment on this site, not just cheer-leader comments for green-stuff or leftist theories of how the world should work. Should i have made comments on your comments about the educational system in the US? Even though it has absolutely nothing to go with green transportation topics ? OK, here goes; and i'll keep it brief: The education system in this country worked much better when managed on local basis - before it was run into the ground by bureaucrats on the Federal level. It is now a giant baby-sitting service, full of corruption (teachers teaching tests and cheating on testing), social promotion, dumbed-down - teaching to the moron child - so no child could possibly be left behind, social indoctrination- like spending most of the day watching docu-dramas (like Algore's convenient gross exaggerations), and learning how to put rubbers on cucumbers. Most adults in the US are laughing and crying at how ignorant our children are; not even being proficient in the basic RRRs. Obviously, you are a recent product of our current educational system; and I'd be permanently pissed-off also if I had gotten such a poor foundation for the future. "You never contribute anything actually about green issues at all." Not quite true. I also don't call others childish names when they disagree with my views.
          EZEE
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Nick
          @nick... :D It may not be sporting for him to predict bankruptcy on Fisker, but scum? You will be descending into Noz level of discourse soon...
          PR
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Nick
          EZEE -- You are a ******* retard, and a prime example of a education system failure in real life. If it were me speaking for myself, I'd point out that it is our entire societal approach to education that needs to change in order to produce the level and types of education required for US workers to regain the global competitive advantage we once had. Just focusing on the schools without addressing the larger social and economic core problems that are having massive negative impact upon student's educations is just repeating the same failed policies that have already caused us to drop to the bottom of the list of Math and Science scores among First (and Second) World nations. We need to get rid of educational policies that were designed with the children of farmers working the fields in mind. (Summer break, ending mandatory eduction at 9th grade, no language requirements at young ages, etc) We need to get rid of educational policies that INTENTIONALLY drains the best teachers, and the best students OUT of certain schools, and then turns around and punishes these same schools for not getting equal results. We need to address family and social problems that force massive educational disadvantages upon the children of a single parent who works 3 minimum wage jobs (because there aren't enough jobs that pay a living wage for everyone). We need to hold the "Job Creators" accountable, and support children regardless of any "mistakes" of the parents. We need corporations to RE-engage into US colleges and trade schools, and have them drive and fund the education of their future workers in the types of classes they will need. This used to be a core corporate function, now companies just get a bunch of H1B Visas and ignore US students. Or they hire illegal immigrants instead of instituting journeyman programs that were once common in the construction trades. We need to end the "Profitization of Education" that is draining dollars that should be going to education, and funneling these dollars directly into the pockets of the most wealthy people in our society --- all at the expense of massive student debts that inhibit students from taking on higher degrees. If you don't have a deep understanding of each of these concepts, do your OWN homework before responding. I'm not going to be your tutor. I use bigger words, longer sentences, and longer posts, because I use them to convey bigger concepts and deeper understanding of issues than your type of self-proclaimed "Evil Right Winger" who are too busy beating their chests about "American Exceptionalism" and "Smaller Government" to actually FIX anything.
          EVnerdGene
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Nick
          PR - you are a sick marxist. Just like the guy we think is running this country. You either missed your meds (probably paid for by taxpayers) or are sad you missed the bus (subsidized by taxpayers) to today's occupy squat. So you think big government is the answer to everything, and big business is the cause of all of our problems. The government cannot create jobs. Take water out of the deep end, add it to the shallow end, and think you've raised the level in the pool? Not. Waste of time talking to the neo-nazi crowd like you. Yes nazi - nationalist -socialist party. Yeah, they had all the answers. Corporate greed? My boss is old enough to retire, has several hundred employees. Says; I don't need this crap from the government trying to run and ruin my business. I've made mine; I'm just staying in business because my employees are my family. Why so many businesses have already left America or have shipped so many jobs overseas. But you don't really want to work anyway, do you? You'd rather just bitch and take what you can get from uncle sugar.
          PR
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Nick
          Nerd - classic brainless right wing loser response. You don't know jack sh!t about a single thing I brought up, so you bring out the slogans to mindlessly hide behind. Not an ounce of original thought. Since you've utterly failed to even address a single thing I put in my post (much less use a single brain cell of your own in the process) then it's clear you have nothing to add. What's your point of being here on this web site? Because all you ever do is bitch about how evil the government is for backing all these green products. You never contribute anything actually about green issues at all.
      dg
      • 4 Days Ago
      I think this is one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen. I wouldn't buy it even at half the price and twice the range.
        Nick
        • 4 Days Ago
        @dg
        @dg To each his own. You probably think your 99 Mustang Cobra with orange racing stripes and a full array of pep boys accessories is hot.
          EZEE
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Nick
          See, now that our down was way more creative than, 'scum.'.
        dg
        • 4 Days Ago
        @dg
        ...but then again, maybe I just haven't gotten a proper look at it, what with nearly every picture of it on the internet making me feel like I'm tripping on acid.
          • 4 Days Ago
          @dg
          Old stories are old. The story was mis-reported by Reuters, and then corrected (on Nov 17th) to state that the target was 10,000-12,000.
          JakeY
          • 4 Days Ago
          @dg
          @Statik 10k-12k sounds more reasonable (same as Model S's target for second year). Again, we won't have a clear picture on demand until they work through the entire reserve list and have lots of extra supply on the lots.
          • 4 Days Ago
          @dg
          Here is the updated story: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/17/us-fisker-idUSTRE7AG2QF20111117?type=GCA-GreenBusiness&feedType=RSS&feedName=GCA-GreenBusiness&rpc=43 "This corrects November 15 story's projection in fourth paragraph to clarify production of Karma models will be in the 10,000 to 12,000 range and not 15,000"
      Ford Future
      • 4 Days Ago
      Your story below, about Koch and Pickens shows where the money is coming from to bad mouth these products. - Hybrids mean Jobs in America. - Less pollution, less global warming heat, so that we will be able to eat crops from farms with sufficient rain fall. - Less war, as there will be less incentive for oil to fund candidates RABID for War. - EV's are even better: Tesla Model S: Sold Out.
      Dan Frederiksen
      • 4 Days Ago
      I'd consider 1500 in 2011 a success but I'm also a bit skeptical at that volume. 7000 in 2012 would be quite impressive in my book, but again I have a doubt. 15000 seems outrageous to me but I hope it's true. if such a car could sell in such volume the demand for EVs has to be great. 2012 will be a fateful year for tesla and fisker. it's crunch time. we know Ray Lane got a car, Leo got one, crown prince of Denmark got one. who else? maybe the one on 2½ men but could just be a promo loaner. same with the tour cars. so how many have actually been delivered so far. I fear it might be a low number
      Roy_H
      • 4 Days Ago
      As stated, there are always unforeseen problems with any start-up and there is no justification for declaring Fisker to be a failure. Anybody know what the world market is for cars in the $90k to $120k range? I would imagine that 15000/year is a substantial portion, so if I am correct, Fisker is expecting to become a major player in this segment right from the start. I think this is unreasonably optimistic. Yes I know they already have over 3000 orders and I am amazed at this number considering Fisker has no history on reliability or quality. Most people will wait for a car to be on the market long enough to gain a reputation for high quality and customer satisfaction before they will choose this car themselves. That would imply that the market is in fact many times the 3000 initial orders. But I point to the Tesla Roadster, which had a large initial excitement, but little on-going continuous sales. It seems that the market for this unique vehicle got quickly saturated and everybody that wants one already owns one. This could be the case for the Karma, where next years sales will indeed be 15k, but follow-on could be significantly less. Even 15k sales at $100k = $1.5B, more than twice the capital put into the company, so it does look like they will be profitable by 2014 even if sales drop off.
        Letstakeawalk
        • 4 Days Ago
        @Roy_H
        Further data: Audi sold 5236 A7s in NA, in only 7 months that it's been available. Audi sold 4747 A8s in NA so far in 2011 - will likely sell another 500 or so. Lexus will sell around 11,000 LS in NA 2011. Fisker is only planning to sell around 5000-7500 Karmas in NA.
        Letstakeawalk
        • 4 Days Ago
        @Roy_H
        Bentley sells around 10,000 Continentals a year, and it starts at over US$200,000. Ferrari sold 6573 cars in 2010, with prices starting at US$250,000. Mercedes sold 66,500 S-Class in 2010. BMW sold 12,253 7ers in the US in 2010. FIsker's goal of 15K Karma production *worldwide* should be a pretty easy goal to hit.
          Letstakeawalk
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          Considering the huge wait-lists (several years) of Bentley and Ferrari, I would think there would be plenty of customers who would be willing to consider dropping one reservation in order to get the new hottest thing. Especially when the Karma *looks* like it could be a Ferrari. At any rate, IMHO, they've got a pretty reasonable expectation.
          Joeviocoe
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          The question is not whether there is a market large enough for 15,000 units/per year in this segment.... but whether a BRAND SPANKING NEW automaker like Fisker could reach this demand in it's first year. Not gonna happen. They need to prove themselves for a few years (decades) like these other big boys.
          Roy_H
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          Thanks, so Fisker is expecting 5% to 10% of the market.
          Letstakeawalk
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          "I believe in my opinion that its appeal will fall short of the Tesla Roadster (if the Karma keeps the price around $100k USD)." Fisker already has more orders than the number of Tesla Roadsters sold. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. How many (few) Karmas do you think they will sell? Be brave... I've already stated several times that I think Fiskers target of selling 7000 or so Karmas in the US is pretty reasonable - while you say you disagree.
          Spec
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          I look at those numbers and think the opposite. You really think Fisker is going to waltz in and sell as many cars as Bentley and Ferrari combined?
          Joeviocoe
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          LTAW, I disagree. When you put down a serious deposit, then customize your order, and are willing to wait several years on a wait list for a specific model luxury/super car... you don't just drop the reservation for the latest trendy fad. Buyers of high end cars have a VERY loyal brand following. If they are in the market for those other automakers, they will wait for the car they ordered. Hollywood stars who would buy any trendy green car regardless of price (like Leo) and super car enthusiasts who would buy Every car that is unique (like Leno)... are going to be the primary market. Tesla was at least aware of the fact that the Roadster would only appeal to a niche market. But then again, they had a few things different which broadened their appeal: 1) A Porsche killing acceleration to appeal to the 'gotta be the fastest' crowd. 2) 100% electric to appeal to the wealthy environmentalist 3) The first model of the EV rebirth (since the 90's) to appeal to the new tech geek buyers. While the Fisker is neither the fastest, the purest, or the newest kid on the block. I believe in my opinion that its appeal will fall short of the Tesla Roadster (if the Karma keeps the price around $100k USD).
        Nick From Montreal
        • 4 Days Ago
        @Roy_H
        Great points. Fisker's target market are current owner of $80K+ luxury cars such as the BMW, Aston Martin & Maserati who won't be see dead in a Leaf or Chevy. Until Model S arrives, this is the option for traditional rich "car guys".
      Nick
      • 4 Days Ago
      1500 in 2011? I haven't seen one on the road yet (L.A.). Have you? I hope they sell many, it's an awesome car no matter what the naysayers say.
        Letstakeawalk
        • 4 Days Ago
        @Nick
        Leo drove his to the "J. Edgar" premier. http://www.hollywoodwaxmuseum.com/blog/leonardo-dicaprios-green-sports-car-is-so-cool/ The Fisker dealer there has taken over 80 orders (and deposits) within the past couple weeks - there's definitely starting to be a serious buzz around town about the Karma. One big reason for the delay (aside from the EPA) was the destruction of most of the leather that was meant to trim the interiors. The sustainable tannery suffered from flooding, and so many custom orders were lost (hundreds of cars) and it took a while to get production back.
          EVnerdGene
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          "sustainable tannery" ? Does that mean Thailand? So American taxpayers have financed a Finnish car with leather from Thailand, and . . . Besides the chebbie engine; is anything on this car made in the USA. Wait - is the chebbie made in the USA ?
          Letstakeawalk
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          More details about the leather and non-leather interior options: http://siliconvalley.fiskernortherncalifornia.com/content/design
          EVnerdGene
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          @EZEE I'm not considering this an American car. Guys from Europe came to the US cause they could get a half-a-BILLION dollar loan from a (fill in the blank) DOE and administration, build cars in Finland, with components from mostly everywhere's else in the world. Their future plans are to use a BMW engine instead of the chebbie. Image is everything - ya know.
          Letstakeawalk
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          The Karma is offered in an "EcoChic" package that has no leather. The seat foam is made from soy, and all the wood trim is salvaged from sunken timber or forest fires. It's a very good attempt at a truly sustainable interior. The tannery is in Scotland. Stop jumping to conclusions EVnerd, it makes you look foolish. http://www.bowleather.co.uk/bow/Home_2010.aspx
          Nick
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          Cool, thanks. Yeah Leo had one, but then he was also the very first person to own one, right? I hear he received it months before anyone else, I assume for the publicity effect. I wish they offered the car leather-less. There are quality alternatives to leather out there..for a green car company.
          EZEE
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          @Evnerd... Ev....when the left seems to put down every single thing any corporation ever does (Noz) while ignoring all of the good that many do (including alternative fuel research by the oil companies), it can be pretty annoying. Likewise, although there is some question on a 'green car' being this large and heavy (Hi Dan!) and what not, one does not have to automatically assume that every last part on the car is foreign, or evil in some way. The Volt may have government subsidies, but, is actually an amazing car. The Leaf may not go very far, but is fine for city use, and it is the first of it's kind. See? Not that difficult. Besides, when you get corrected, it looks bad...
      markrogo
      • 4 Days Ago
      I've heard this 15,000 number before and assumed it was a typo. Now that I know it isn't, the word that comes to mind is delusion. In what universe is the demand for a $100,000 car from a company no one has heard of with no particular distribution network going to be 15,000 units next year? That's pure unadulterated fantasy. "Green chic" or no, this car isn't outselling the Quattroporte + the R8 in its first full year. Nor in its second. Let's leave aside the government loan programs questionable artifacts for a second, but who believes these ridiculous business plans? How about targeting 5,000 sales and delivering on that. That's still nearly $500 million in sales. And focus on bringing out one new model, stop talking about 3 variants of the Karma, 3 variants of the Nina, etc. This company is tremendous at talking. It needs to get better at doing.
        Marco Polo
        • 4 Days Ago
        @markrogo
        @markrogo I take it that you are experienced in marketing new vehicles on a world wide basis? The problem with your reasoning is that a lot of people who possess $100,000 to buy a car have not only heard of the Fisker-Karma, but are eager to obtain one! Fisker only has to sell 0.3% of its target market to reach 15 k units. Now, that's not a big ask!
          Marco Polo
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Marco Polo
          @EVnerdGene Well, the successful Chevrolet Cruze doesn't seem to have been harmed by it's multi-national input!
          EVnerdGene
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Marco Polo
          "marketing new vehicles on a world wide basis?" ? a car designed in Anaheim, built in Finland, and sold worldwide - by a guy whose specialty is drawing cars ? big ask?
      Spec
      • 4 Days Ago
      Yeah, I'd be more worried about finding 15,000 more buyers of the near $100K vehicle.
      • 4 Days Ago
      I'm no genius, but the subsidy divided by the number of cars delivered equals around 350K per unit, and that for cars that will cost nearly 100K apiece. What's the point, then? To save the planet?
        Letstakeawalk
        • 4 Days Ago
        No. The point is to build the Nina.
          EVnerdGene
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Letstakeawalk
          Talking about delusions: Tesla and Frisker ever thinking they could build a $30k electric or hybrid car - profitably.
        PR
        • 4 Days Ago
        Discursions -- You've made a number of massive math fails. Fail #1 -- They aren't subsidies, they are loans that will be repaid with interest. Fisker will be paying interest that is HIGHER than the amount the United States is paying to borrow. So in the end, the US will be making a PROFIT on each unit sold. Fail #2 -- The majority of the LOAN doesn't even go to the Karma, it goes to the construction of the plant and the productization of the Nina. The dollars have not even gone to Fisker yet, as they are distributed ONLY as the Nina reaches specific benchmarks for production. So this is actually a double math fail here, Not only have you attributed money to the wrong car, you've attributed money that Fisker hasn't even received yet. Fail #3 -- You've attributed a long-term capital investment to a single year of production. That would be like taking the entire cost of drilling in deep ocean waters, and building an off-shore drilling platform, and then trying to assign all those expenses to just a single year of gas created from that site. Anyone who knows anything about business understands how big a math fail that is. The expense of long-term capital investment is correctly accounted for over the term of the capital investment, not the first year of production. What's the point? The point is to kick start the electrification of our transportation system by creating targeted loans to get production finally started after decades of research. This will help drive down costs for ALL manufactures, because in the modern auto industry, it is the sub-contractors who actually build and supply the components that get built into both gas vehicles and EV's. Once sub-contractors have created manufacturing capacity, the cost of these parts will drop for ALL EV's, regardless of brand. What's the big picture? Whether you are willing to see it or not, we have a national security and economic juggernaut that can sink our nation if we don't address it. Every President back to Nixon have all declared energy independence as a national priority, and it is even more true now than ever. The next economic and military super-power will be determined by what country is best positioned to survive and thrive through the upcoming oil crisis's when inexpensive oil sources are over pumped right as global demand for oil expands. Our enemies aren't going to wait for us to catch up, they will simply crush us. So the point is to save the United States. Do you have a problem with that?
          EVnerdGene
          • 4 Days Ago
          @PR
          Fail #1 You are assuming the loans will be repaid. And no, we taxpayers do not "make a profit on each unit sold" That would be a commission scheme. Fail #2 Wrong. Funds have already been released to Frisker; as discussed in these pages. A hundred-something million. Q. What's the use of building plants if the company disappears? (not saying it will) But what we'll have is more empty commercial/industrial real estate in the US - like the Solyndra plant. We need more industrial space like China needs more peoples. Fail #3 OK. Good point. But everytime I hear; oh wow; $100,000 times 15,000 cars equals massive profits paying back all loans, etc. etc. I gotta laugh. We (and probably Frisker) are not even sure about actually making a profit on a $100k limited production luxury/performance car with very a costly drive and EV components like batteries. e tiny example; paying someone half-way around the world to build your cars, and probably do most of your manufacturing engineering is an expensive way to build a car. I'd bet Valmet will make much more profit per car than Frisker. Fail #3 OK. Good point. But everytime I hear; oh wow; $100,000 times 15,000 cars equals massive profits paying back all loans, etc. etc. I gotta laugh. We (and probably Frisker) are not even sure you can make a profit on this car at $100k each. One example; paying someone half-way around the world to build your cars, and probably do most of your manufacturing engineering is an expensive way to build a car. I'd bet Valmet will make much more profit per car than Frisker. Loaning money to obscure luxury car makers is not a very efficient way to build your strategic electrification of transportation.
      harlanx6
      • 4 Days Ago
      I wish them well, but if they deliver 15,000 vehicles in 2012, I would think about 14,000 of them will still be on showroom floors on new years day 2013. As I consider the cars that are offered at that price (or cheaper), a Fisker would be a tough choice for most people. This very optimistic projection is pure marketing, and has no connection to reality. The fact that the Department of energy gave them $529 million of taxpayer money enfuriates me, and in itself, tends to indicate they are headed for bankruptcy. The Department of Energy has a dismal track record.
        Ford Future
        • 4 Days Ago
        @harlanx6
        The obvious response is: No Company would ship 14,000 vehicle, with the first 1000 sitting in showroom floors.
        Spec
        • 4 Days Ago
        @harlanx6
        The money is a loan guarantee. The DoE track record is pretty good as venture capital goes. And the money is for the Nina, not the Karma. I'm skeptical about the loan but at least get your facts straight.
          LBJAY02
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Spec
          According to DOE, it's a loan. http://energy.gov/articles/department-energy-announces-closing-529-million-loan-fisker-automotive "Washington, DC - The Department of Energy announced today the closing of a $528.7 million loan with Fisker Automotive for the development and production of two lines of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV). "
          EVnerdGene
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Spec
          "The DoE track record is pretty good as venture capital goes." SOURCE ?
      goodoldgorr
      • 4 Days Ago
      They won't sale a lot because lithium-ion batteries are already rejected by consumers at the luxury level and at the economy level too. They will gather some sale at first and rapidly it will go to marginal sale like the tesla roadster, chevrolet volt, nissan leaf, mitshubishi i-miev. Peoples are expecting something like my buying bids and won't settle for less.
        Spec
        • 4 Days Ago
        @goodoldgorr
        >lithium-ion batteries are already rejected by consumers at the luxury level It hasn't even been tried yet. But in any case, no one expects EVs to be big sellers immediately. They are brand new and expensive. It will take some time for them to prove themselves, to drop in price a little, and for oil prices to go up before EVs start really going mainstream.
        Ford Future
        • 4 Days Ago
        @goodoldgorr
        Again, the Tesla Model S is Sold Out. - This model is having no problems selling. And the mass market is Rewarding the Prius for having the most bang for the buck. Although, I myself enjoy the Insight as the least expensive hybrid you can buy. But, my next car will be an EV.
          EZEE
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Ford Future
          Ford Will you have two cars (due to range issues) or only an EV? Spend the extra on the Prius...seems worth the cost over the Insight.
          EZEE
          • 4 Days Ago
          @Ford Future
          @ford Wow, just retread what I typed, ignore the Prius comment, obviously a brain fart if you are going EV. Would you get a leaf, or keeping options open?
      Smith Jim
      • 4 Days Ago
      I don't know if there is demand for 15,000 Karmas. If there is I still have my doubts about Fisker being able to produce 15,000 units. GM with all of it's experience produced roughly 10,000 Volts in it's first year of production. Mass producing automobiles is a huge logistical challenge. I hope I'm wrong.
        Roy_H
        • 4 Days Ago
        @Smith Jim
        GM could have produced more Volts. They have to plan production years in advance, and make contracts with all the suppliers. They just didn't want to commit to more vehicles. Since Fisker has planned on 15k Karmas, I have no doubt that they can meet that figure if the demand is there.
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