• Mar 18th 2011 at 7:50PM
  • 63
1995-1997 Geo Metro three-door hatchback

Dave Cloud's 1997 Geo Metro started life as a run-of-the-mill gas-sipping subcompact. Following a year-long electric transformation, Cloud's Metro now has virtually no resemblance of its former self. To convert the vehicle over to electric drive, Cloud fitted the Metro with used batteries, low-priced single-speed electric motors and inexpensive Curtis controllers.

The completed electric car, which Cloud calls the Dolphin due to its streamlined body, has some impressive specs. The Dolphin is claimed to be capable of hauling two adults for 200 miles at speeds reaching 72 miles per hour. What's the cost of converting a lowly 1997 Metro into a electrified wedge of a car? For Cloud, a mere $3,000.

Ecomodder's math, along with Cloud's own estimates of power usage, shows that the Dolphin returns an astonishing 214 miles per gallon equivalent (mpge). And that ain't bad for three grand. Hit up Ecomodder's site to see photos of Dave Cloud's electric Dolphin.

[Source: Ecomodder, Treehugger | Image: IFCAR – C.C. License 2.0]

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    • 1 Second Ago
      • 4 Years Ago
      I wonder why the featured picture is of a generic Metro, while the Dolphin is anything but generic?

        • 8 Months Ago
        Hi Marco, thanks for the info. I'm in the Detroit area, so I'm looking at some temperature limits, I know. I wouldn't expect to be driving it to work (100 mi round trip) at
        • 8 Months Ago
        Seriously?? So does the "less than" symbol cause the site to chop off my comment? Here's the rest of my post... wish me luck.

        Hi Marco, thanks for the info. I'm in th Detroit area, so I'm looking at some temperature limits, I know. I wouldn't expect to be driving it to work (100 mi round trip) at LESS THAN 40 degrees. No chance I'll ever buy a Leaf or Volt, but 3K to convert my Metro to elec sounds like a dream come true.

        I've looked at various kits available, but they are a bit expensive and don't offer the range I need. I've pretty much given up on an EV coversion and I am considering just rebuilding the engine & front suspension/steering on the old Metro so I can drive to work wothout going bankrupt.

        Then I come across Dave's Metro, and it looks like it might fit me very well, if what I have seen so far is accurate and I can get him to share the recipe!
        • 8 Months Ago
        @ Miles

        It's a great idea to build your own electric conversion, especially if you have some background.

        But, when it comes to a daily driver, is it really wise? Despite popular belief, EV's (especially home built) have their share of defects and service problems!

        If you don't mind, I thought I'd share these thoughts with you.

        On the other hand, there are many websites and EV associations ready with advice and depending where you live, a helping hand!

        For the price of a home conversion, you could buy a Leaf or Volt. I know Dave built his from second-hand parts, but he's very experienced and was not building a daily use vehicle. I 'm also surprised he was able to road register, and insure his EV. Most jurisdiction's would look askance at such an unroadworthy, incompatible vehicle.

        I'm not sure where you live, but a lot of the EV forums have second hand EV conversions for sale. Some of these will be pretty awful, but there will be some that are really good or can be improved on quite cheaply.

        My fascination with EV's began 10 years ago, when I conceived EV transport hire for resorts and special use locations, as a business. Since then I have commissioned or built over 190 EV's for specialist purposes.

        (Finally, the big Automakers have caught up and are trying to 'educate me' to buy fleet EV's! )

        EV's have their share of pitfalls. But it's a real joy to drive past Shell, Exxon,BP, Chevron, and know that you are driving(riding) with electrons!

        Good luck if you decide to convert.

        • 8 Months Ago
        Marc Opolo: I don't know why you're making statements about a vehicle which you know nothing about. Please come drive the car - then you will see how road worthy it actually is.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Yeah, Neil, I agree. I waited 6 months for this to come up on AutoBlog Green and they didn't even use a picture of the real car. I'm sure people will clock right past this Geo Metro and not even read the story.
        Dave Cloud
        • 8 Months Ago
        @ Dave Cloud

        No offence intended, my remarks to Miles were not intended to denigrate your EV, but I don't need to drive the car to know that in many jurisdictions it could not be registered or insured.

        I don't doubt that it may drive excellently, but in reality where is the crash testing certification? What sort, and how many airbags is the vehicle fitted ? Where is the testing certificate for seat belt point testing? Where is the engineering analysis (FTC approved) as to how the original vehicles handling capacity has been affected by the modifications? (You admit that the vehicle has certain drawbacks in handling) Where is the certification for functioning ESC, ABS etc..

        I know some jurisdictions allow hobbyist conversions a lot of leeway, but others do not!

        Before all the 'hate government' and 'conspiracy theorists' start the usual bleating, some wisdom must prevail. Road safety, is not an imposition by an authoritarian regime but a responsibility shared by all road users and regulated by the authorities.

        Most jurisdictions make allowance for 'club' road activities, be they customised cars or vintage vehicles. However, there must be limits. Vehicles which are incompatible with modern traffic become hazardous to themselves and other road users.

        That's why bicycles and horse-drawn traffic are not usually permitted on freeways!

        Dave, your car may be great as a one-off styling exercise. But in a heavy modern traffic collision, it would be an insurance nightmare!

        I would hate to be your lawyer refuting, to a court, that opposing counsels description of your vehicle construction from scrap-yard pieces and inadequate safety design did not constitute contributory negligence! I mean, imagine trying to refute an admission that the back tyres are 10 years old and misshapen! Or that the steering is dubious. The rear of the vehicle is clearly not designed for rear impact.

        Like it or not, defending such a vehicle, would be a nightmare.

        Just being given a compliance certificate and licence plates by your local DVR wouldn't be much help! Nor would pointing there are certainly a lot crappier cars on the road than yours, built by existing manufacturers.

        We see things differently, because you see EV conversion as a passion, I see EV's as an industry. (although I'm passionate about EV development) .

        As a hobbyist EV project it's a great conversion, as a serious road vehicle well... but then i don't believe you built 'Dolphin' as a prototype, but More of a working concept?

        • 8 Months Ago
        Hi Marco, thanks for the info. I'm in th Detroit area, so I'm looking at some temperature limits, I know. I wouldn't expect to be driving it to work (100 mi round trip) at
        • 8 Months Ago
        Here's the EcoModder.com blog post:


        Here's the thread I started on EcoModder.com:


        Here's the animation of the SketchUp model I made of the Dolphin:



        • 8 Months Ago
        Yer right Dave, most people will clock right by it thanks to the laziness of Autoblog

        The car is strange, but also strangely beautiful.
        and amazing range for used and crapola batteries.

        Congrats on the car,
        and a little recognition !
        • 8 Months Ago
        Neil thanks for the link to the real car +1

        Disappointing that they didn't use pictures of the real car, ironically that would have likely pushed up the click and comment that ABG wants.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Dave Cloud,
        I'm interested in converting my 2000 Metro (1L manual) to something like this. I need 125 mile range but I can do without the dramatic aero upgrades so it remains practical as a daily driver. Do you think your version would achieve 125 mile range with maybe just a belly pan as the only aero mod? What does it take to charge this car from empty? I have only 220v/100amp single phase available at my home:( I would only have 12~13 hours to charge it.

        With my 100 mile daily commute, I think it would pay for itself rather quickly:)

        I can do anything mechanically myself, I'm an ex-machinist with friends still in the tool room at the shop for any machining chores, though I would need pretty clear instructions for the elec work.

        Can you provide a link to details on the power supply and powertrain mods?
        • 8 Months Ago
        Hi Marco, thanks for the info. I'm in th Detroit area, so I'm looking at some temperature limits, I know. I wouldn't expect to be driving it to work (100 mi round trip) at
        • 8 Months Ago
        !@#$%^%^& comment system!!
      • 4 Years Ago
      @ Eric Loveday.

      I'm not sure why this sort of article keeps appearing? This is the second article in a week featuring amateur EV construction. 10 or 15 years ago when the concept of EV's was still very new to Joe Public and there was a certain 'G-Wiz' factor about the activities and achievement of amateur EV builders, this sort of story was interesting.

      But how much interest is there in a story about some guy who built a totally unusable, roadworthy, poorly designed car out of old spare parts, when nearly every mainstream manufacturer is developing and launching onto the market fully functional EV's?

      I mean, it's not even as if the conversion is particularly original. The body design concept is at least 80+ years old.

      This is great story for a local DIY EV enthusiasts club newsletter. Most EV enthusiast websites contain countless stories of more interesting EV conversions with better construction and overall performance.

      Don't you think, ABG readers (well, maybe not the cracker barrel crowd) have moved on from this sort of folksy story.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Yeah of little brains pull your head out and tell me that you don't think Waylands cars are pertinent. Please talk to my ass it is the only thing that give a crap around here.

        My name is Marcomoron and I love OEM's cause they have wind tunnels, what a jerk.

        As you can tell I will say what I want when I want. You almost sound intelligent sometimes, I will chalk it up to luck on your part.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Hey!....Grampus feeding time!

        Let's see, "mumble, grumble..." thing's major auto-makers overlook..mumble grumble.."

        Ah, yeah, you're right! How valuable! Major Automakers are so foolish as to overlook building cars out of old spare parts and lead batteries!

        DF, do you really think the designers and engineers at Nissan/Renault, Tesla, Ford, Toyota, VW, Peugeot/CV, GM, Mercedes, Fiat, Mitsubishi, and all other major manufacturers just 'overlook ' all the wind tunnel, computer modelling research and R&D.?

        Instead of this sort of silly remark, take up my challenge! Show us what you know!

        Or just accept that everyone knows the same, (or more), than you, and wait until you have something meaningful to say!
        • 8 Months Ago
        does it uncomfortably remind you of me such that you have to pretend ABG shouldn't speak of such things... pathetic

        of course it is interesting because it shows what the big automakers completely overlook
        • 8 Months Ago
        Marcopolo, what are you talking about. Did you read the car gets over 200 mile mpge? There is not one manufacturer, OEM that comes close. It is a good example of what it takes to achieve efficiency.

        You mean we should not hear of John Wayland and his 0-60 mph in 1.8 seconds rocket of a Datsun 1200 or his Insight that will go from Portland OR to Seattle WA and back on one charge because it is not a OEM? We should not hear of Jack Rickard and his conversions? WTH. These are guys in their garages beating the big boys, are you really not impressed with this stuff?

        In the beginning with the ICE it was the guys in there garages making the ICE go faster and farther. So it will be with the EV's as well. It's called modifying and it has been going on since the first vehicle was born. The result is many superior after market parts. Sorry but many of the OEM's have their heads up there ICE Hole cars and either build a wimpy mommy van EV that goes 50 miles or a million dollar unobtainium vehicle. These people and what they are doing are very pertinent, IMO. The OEM are pretending to try. Even my car built by a not so reputable corp beats the hell out of a OEM vehicle like the Leaf in many ways and it is just a one off. Go over to the eco modder forum and learn something.

        John Wayland, welcome to the Kocam page of the EV Album. Yahoo!

        My car below.
        • 8 Months Ago
        so tomorrow (or in next year or two) you can buy a brand new EV for 25 - 40K vs buying a junker plus 3k in parts and you end up in roughly the same place ... Do you always wait until Dell sells a computer with the exact memory and accessories in it to finally buy the computer you would like right now ?

        this was a cool example of someone not waiting for "dad" or big government of Detroit to build or "mandate" what they wanted ...

        you are one nasty piece of work sir ...
        • 8 Months Ago

        The format of ABG does tend to create misunderstandings as posts get out of sync.

        Had you read the previous, and later posts by me, you would discover that I have already clarified the issues you complain about. However, just to make it plain.

        I did not denigrate either Dave Cloud's EV, or his right and ability to build it. In fact the exact opposite.

        What I questioned, was if ABG is still the appropriate place to showcase such vehicles.

        My reasoning was that since the majority of mainstream manufacturers are now either building EV's or developing EV's, (and production EV have been available in some parts of the world for several years), home built products are neither as uniquely groundbreaking, or as interesting to anyone apart from EV enthusiast/hobbyists.

        Since hobbyists are well catered for by specialist websites and forums, such articles may be better left to those sites and readership? (it was couched as a question to the journalist Eric Loveday)

        Considering my response to Das Boese's well reasoned point of view, why would you feel obliged to ignore the rest of the thread, and post your incorrect, and abusively irrelevant, after thought?

        But, I guess, as I said, it is easy to get confused as to when the different posts are posted.
      • 4 Years Ago
      I love Metros and realize that their light weight makes them attractive to this sort of conversion, but it seems to me that it's other vehicles that are "the low-hanging fruit" to reduce our carbon footprint.
      If all the remaining 45 mpg Metros were converted to electric, how much gas would that save?
        • 8 Months Ago
        My point exactly, Gene. I drive a Metro and I love it.
        • 8 Months Ago
        amen Gene

        make that about 1% interested in environmentally bent vehicles like EVs, and over 90% driving more vehicle than they need.

        If only 60% of Americans switched to vehicles getting over 40mpg, we'd no longer have to import oil
        • 8 Months Ago
        How much gas would we save if most of us just drove Metros or Insights or even Fiestas ?

        instead of SUVs (Stupid Ugly Vehicles) aka: FUVs, and trucks with dualies carrying one ass to work?

        Ironic to me, that a few of us are trying to use no gas at all, and 90% of us are guzzling it as quckly as possible - and then complaining about the price of it. Go figure.
        I could give names to this type of behaviour, but I won't.
        • 8 Months Ago
        story - just for fun - but nevertheless true (call me names if you must):

        For years I was a member of the Sierra Club and would go on several sactioned hikes every month.

        I'd always noticed the parking area at the trail heads were full of SUVs but never gave it much thought.
        Then, on one hike I was strangely attracted to a female of that species - a braided underarm type (i love the smell). We discussed all the great things we were individually doing for the environment on the way back.
        Returning to the trail-head, I noticed what she was driving an asked her why a single (no kids) woman would need such a big car(SUV) to carry herself to work and to SC hikes.
        Her answer: "I occasionally take my dog to the beach."

        So you take your little made in china bag to the grocery store to keep from using plastic bags, but drive a dinosaur? Go figure.

        Sierra Club is full of illogicals. The last year I paid my dues they went on record opposing a solar project in the California desert. Go figure again.
      • 4 Years Ago
      @EV Superhero

      Sorry, but the speed of these postings has got me a little out of sync.

      In one way I agree with you. I am the first to acknowledge the contribution by early EV pioneers and early enthusiast adopters. I should, since I am one myself.

      But, I invite you to consider the future not the past. The era of the EV has dawned, and like every new industry it's finally moved mainstream, way beyond the capacity of the amateur enthusiast.

      The specialist, enthusiast will always have a place, but that's why the enthusiast websites and forums exist. IMHO, ABG should devote resources to the developments and information concerning the EV industry, which enthusiast forum's can't access.

      Your point about the Major Automakers learning from enthusiasts was once very true.

      But, even that era is disappearing. With mass manufacturing, and mass marketing the objectives are diverging.

      I invite you to really consider the problems, in an unbiased objective manner, of a mass manufacturer. Take the best conversion you know, and imagine that you are the leader of a major manufacturer and then answer all the questions about how you can mass produce the vehicle and sell it at a profitable price.

      If you are honest, you will understand the difference between idealism and reality.

      Dave Cloud's EV is a interesting and terrific achievement for a hobbyist. But, suppose Daimler or Ford were to put such a vehicle into production? Who would buy such an impractical product?

      That's not to say idealism, doesn't have a place, but so does reality.

        • 8 Months Ago
        I see your point, but I don't agree.

        Articles like this broaden the scope of a publication and contribute diversity to what would otherwise a bleak publication consisting of mostly press releases and a few op-eds.

        It's the same reason why the regular Autoblog still features articles about custom-built hot rods and modified cars, or why computer magazines have articles about overclocking, casemodding and customizing software.

        Webspace is cheap, and you're not missing out on industry news due to articles about amateur projects.
      • 4 Years Ago
      @EVsuper hero

      Very interesting referral! Your EV is the former Toyota Yaris, right?
        • 8 Months Ago
        I will have to look up the Holden and the other vehicles you mention. From your description sounds like El Caminos. The Datsun 620 PU have a very small extra cab. They advertised it as a King cab as they were the first to do this to a small PU. Their are many of them. Under the bed will make for easy mounting and monitoring of batteries.
        I am reading the site you mention now. I listen to Jack Rickard but he will become more and more a shill for the products that sponsor him. I am trying to find anyone who has pushed Thundersky 100ah batteries to 2000 amps. We have many people here in the Northwest that produce components but so far I have heard of one guy who supposedly tested CALIB batteries to this extent but no mention of number of cycles. Could be 3 or 300 cycles. It will always be on a full charge and I will only be discharging for 8 seconds tops, in the eighth mile. I will slowly ramp up the amps because I would like to get some use out of the battery pack before I abuse it. 160ah batteries would be better but 380 volts are heavy and expensive.

        Yea, I was really tempted by the Anglia. There is one for sale not to far from me.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Well done!

        The diary you kept of your first trials and tribulations will make interesting reading for future generations!

        If you were building a road only vehicle I would recommend the 105E Ford Anglia. These little cars are amazingly adaptable and very tough.. Fashionable too!

        But for a combination of drag racing and general purpose, my engineers tell me that the twin cab configuration would be superior. (more batteries, better distribution). Are there any used twin cab/utes based on sedan models available where you live? I'm thinking of a vehicle similar to the Holden crewman ute (Pickup), (based on the front half of what is sold in the US as the 2004/6 Pontiac GTO.)

        This vehicle can be lightened considerably, and may prove perfect as a race car, (and a a lot of street car cred!).

        Just a thought..... you might light to take a look at www.aeva.asn.au/forums, some of the guys there, particularly Matt (anti-scab) have a wealth of knowledge about EV conversion, and batteries. They also have extensive experience in EV racing.

        We have converted a number of Vans and heavier trucks, but always for specialist commercial applications.

        Unlike your experience, Australia and the UK have production EV manufacturers (using OEM gliders). Buy an EV from one of these firms, is just like buying from Toyota, boring, but no fuss and reliable!

        Which ever vehicle you decide, good luck!
        • 8 Months Ago
        If it were me, I'd go for the Anglia as a first conversion. I'm not sure how much second hand MX5's sell for in your area, but they also make great conversions.

        The Anglia would be easier to upgrade, but more restricted for where you can mount batteries. The small Suzuki ute (pick-up) and 4 wheel drive jeep are also really good conversion material.

        Right now I'm standing in our maintenance shed, staring at two wreaked Vectrix VX-1, maxi-scooters, and wondering if I could mount the electric motors on the rear wheels of a little Suzuki Jeep Glider, then attach the BMS......(everyone seems to have disappeared quickly)

        The EV bug is really catching ....

        • 8 Months Ago
        Yes Marco, it is the Yaris. As of 6 months ago, one could buy most of the components on the web at Electroautomotive. It is garage based parts in a so called professional conversion. The best part about it is the Kokam batteries the BMS has held up as well. The cars components are smartly located, they did a good job at that but as you can read on the Ev Album it has had it's glitches and problems but I was always able to drive it. It has been doing very good for the last 4000 miles after my charger was replaced. I would be a very unhappy person without it. I am ready to build one now. I bought a VW bus because I was going to convert that. I sold the bus then thought of getting a Datsun 1200 ala Wayland's lightweight car or a 1959 Anglia built by Ford for England as it is another 1640 lb car stock. The Datsun and the Anglia are available but I now am thinking of a 1977 Datsun King cab pu as it is more usable than a car. The idea is to drive it on the streets and then drive it down to PIR and run in the same bracket as my friends GTX 440 in the 8th mile. Twin 9's and a 2k zilla with direct drive to a ford 9". I will probably end up melting approx 380 volts worth of 100 ah thundersky batteries. The 620 PU Datsun is 700 lbs heavier than the Datsun 1200, quite a handy cap. I need to do about 6.90's seconds to run with the big blocks in the 1/8 mile bracket racing. Would lke to keep the budget under 30k to do this but it may cost more.
      • 4 Years Ago

      Well, I accept what you say. It would appear that this sort of article does have interest to readers.

      Your point concerning the cheapness of Web-space is valid. From my own perspective, I'm a bit over the amateur heroic EV enthusiasm of home built vehicles.

      But, I realise that's just me! I'm more interested in the future of EV's as an industry and see the 'Custom' hobbyist as less relevant to the mainstream as the technology advances.

      If these articles are still of interest, I'm the one out of step!
        • 8 Months Ago
        Yeah, very sound advice. Although you have to be careful when buying somebody Else's conversion attempt.

        I have found the same rules apply to EV conversion as with auto restoration. From painful experience I've learnt that careful assessment is really important of the work that was done before.

        But if you get lucky, it can really save a lot of time and money to take advantage of someones hard work and expense.

        The other trick is to ensure all the components compatible. It's always a temptation to buy a real bargain sophisticated component, only to find it's useless or even harmful to the overall system. Still they make an excellent excuse for the next project.....
        • 8 Months Ago
        The people in the garages have some good ideas that the big companies won't implement sometimes. And since I am converting a truck myself,

        I would like to know the best combination of parts and where I can
        save money, versus where I should spend more. (I would get Lithium
        batteries of some sort (LiFePO4?)). And I don't care to spend $30-40k
        to get a professionally produced one. (If I came into a lot of money,
        I would buy a Tesla roadster however...)

        But, I agree that the picture isn't accurate, and the car is a little
        'extreme' for a daily driver. But, Autoblog Green puts up a lot more
        lesser ''green' cars than this.

        And there are a lot of people who would like information on the easiest way to improve aerodynamics and convert cars & trucks I would imagine.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Rcappo, should get a Advanced DC motor, 1.8k, 166.0 volt Thundersky, 5.5k, Chennick charger, .7k,. Only 16.6 kwh. Range of 50 miles.

        Should go to 160ah batteries for 26.5kwh. Cost for batteries would then be 8.7k. For possibly 80 mile range in a small truck. S-10 PU weights 3900lbs stock, 77 Datsun Pu 2300lbs. 80 miles range for Datsun not S-10. The S-10 is a nicer ride but two heavy for me. Thunderskys are now $107.5 per ah. The delivery from So Cal would be approx $400.

        I was thinking of buying a Nissan Sentra EV for sale, asking price is $3,100.00. It has the advanced DC motor, grizzly controller,PFC 25 Manzanita Micro charger, old Rudaman regulators on the Trojan 1275 batteries. The charger alone to buy new is 2.5k. Perhaps rcappo can find a EV that is for sale to get parts for less.
        • 8 Months Ago

        Thanks for your input and best of luck with your truck conversion.

        My real point was that ABG should have outgrown this sort of article and left it for the specialist website and hobbyist forums. But it would appear I am wrong, and there is still interest in these sort of articles.

        BTW, how big is the 'truck ' you are converting, what cargo weights, and what area do you live in?
      • 4 Years Ago
      3,000 for everything at a discount..
      how much for all the body work that was done, lol?

      Converting a car is just not that cheap or anywhere near it.. best case scenario..
        • 8 Months Ago
        $2,287 parts + my labor 600 hr. David Cloud
        • 8 Months Ago
        ? 1. $. ?2. 602 mi range.
        • 8 Months Ago
        @Dave Cloud,

        Ah yeah, $'s , I understand !

        1000 klms! very impressive indeed! It's a pity, you couldn't find a sponsor to equip your vehicle with LiPo. Be a very worthwhile exercise.

        How do hills affect the performance considering the lack of gearing? Also, how do you cater for heat dispersal from the battery compartment?
        • 8 Months Ago
        @Dave Cloud

        Sorry, if my posts seem out of sync!

        Dave great EV! Well done!

        600 hours! Wow! Lot's of hard work! But, if you don't mind, could you explain why you decided to build a vehicle with such aerodynamics, then add nearly 2000 lbs of the heaviest batteries?

        What performance do you think it could achieve with lightweight LiPO Batteries ?
        • 8 Months Ago
        yah 600 hours of labor.. lol

        Not hatin on you David Cloud, just sayin that autoblog kinda simplifies things by saying everything cost about $3000... hehe

        Yeah well i spent under $1000 on my electric bike but if i was charging myself labor it would be twice that.
        • 8 Months Ago
        600 hours? That's a lot more time (and love) than most people would be willing to put into a DIY project. And, for 600 hours of work, many people could earn enough money to pay for at least half of a new Nissan Leaf, which I'm sure is a lot safer and more comfortable than any 10+ year old chassis used in a DIY project. It's great that some people have the DIY spirit, but this kind of thing is not for most people.
      • 4 Years Ago
      nice build.
      and can be even better if fully conceived as efficient car rather than adaptation of a crude steel car.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Edge, his kind would quickly go away if I weren't the only having to fight them off. they 'think' that as long as there is only one they don't have to think about what I say. they are so mindless that reason never enters the picture. but they do respond to democracy so if you told him off it would help a lot.
        • 8 Months Ago
        if you argue with an idiot, you'll start to sound like an idiot
        • 4 Years Ago
        here's my counter challenge. you prove to rush limbaugh and glenn beck that they are wrong and I will prove to you that you are wrong.
        not that you'll understand the significance of that point.
        • 8 Months Ago

        sarcastic humor - I hope
        • 4 Years Ago
        Poor ol' grampus!

        I don't have to prove Rush Limburgh or Glenn Beck or any other idiotic radio 'personalty' is wrong about every utterance, the task would be gigantic! I have enough trouble refuting our own homegrown right-wing pests.

        But to the best of my knowledge, neither Rush Limburgh or Glenn Beck has posted on ABG. If they do, that's a different story.

        But you DO! 30 bloody times, the same inane comment, so either show us that you know what you are talking about, or stop the pretence!
        • 8 Months Ago
        @ DF.

        Ah ha, more pompous abusive ravings from the grampus at his cracker barrel!

        But I repeat, why you don't simply enlighten everyone with your own theories about lightweight building material, or your own well researched, or original theory on the application of aerodynamics in vehicle design?

        I'm not being unfair or offencive, I'm inviting you to either justify that you are qualified to comment or desist. Here's your chance to prove all your detractors wrong!

        Why not accept? Instead you create every sort of pathetic evasion, but no actual evidence! Either put up, or shut up!

        By your own admission, this is the reason so many otherwise reasonable people, can't tolerate your endless mindless commentary of clichéd phrases.

        • 8 Months Ago
        Marco, dealing with Dan is quite pointless. He's one of those "everyone that disagrees with me is clearly of an inferior intellect" people that can't understand why the world does not see the light of his wisdom.

        Arguing with him is a waste of time, so ultimately I decided to stop feeding the troll.
        • 8 Months Ago
        I think Dan's comment at the top of this article is just fine, then to read what Marco has to say. Sheesh, you spend way to much time at this site reading his comments. Relax.

        I wish you guys would share emails, and take to a more personal level. Why do we have t be subject to this.
        • 4 Years Ago
        whereas you would of course never do that..
        what you're doing is not very smart. you might as well complain about the repeated use of green in the site name or that all the articles are about energy efficiency in transportation.

        I repeat the truth because it is pertinent. you heckle it because you are unintelligent and a bad person. maybe time for a different direction in your life
        • 4 Years Ago
        30 out of 38, repetitious,inane posts!
        • 4 Years Ago
        the point that was lost on you is that you are the glenn beck in this analogy. and I don't have to prove anything to you nor can you in your rabid mindlessness be reached. same as they cannot.

        I get this regularly, some new ignorant loudmouth comes along and 'thinks' I need to be dealt with. I suffer your kind all the time. if you stick around you will see the next of your type attacking me.
        and while my repetition might well eventually convince you, like the many before you you will be too bad of a person to admit I was right and you will just fade into the shadows like the many wraiths before you.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Gene, of course not. trying to educate fools does not make me a fool nor give me the appearance
        • 4 Years Ago
        Ah Ha ! The Grampus surfaces !

        Let's see, what does he say? "mumble grumble ..bad person.. mindless abuse..petulence.." Usual rubbish!

        Ok, let's try and explain it to you. It's fine to think something to yourself, but when you post or publish, it's intended for others to read. It's ok to write staff that controversial, or even a bit crazy, as long as it is original.

        But to nearly every article, you repeat the same bloody meaningless clichéd phrase. Do you really think after 30 repetitions, anyone is still interested in you solemnly intoning something every one already knows?

        Good grief do you really imagine that that a Auto manufacturer designing a 12 tonne EV removal truck, or excavator, needs your advice of "aerodynamic and light" ?

        Yet you persist!

        I may be wrong, but I bet among all the worries Carlos Ghosn has, he doesn't need your clichéd advice on how to build cars!

        Even if you posted your own, not copied, but your own theories about lightweight building material, or your own well researched, or original theory on the application of aerodynamics in vehicle design, that would be great, and a subject of considerable interest.

        But you don't! Your just trundle out the same hackneyed phrase over and over again.

        Several times, I have invited you to substantiate your negative comments. Not once have you done so. You just continually criticise the achievements of others, while contributing nothing of any value.

        But, as I say, here's the challenge! Prove me wrong! Simply, write your own theories about lightweight building materials, or your own well researched, or original theory on the application of aerodynamics in vehicle design.

        Tell us how these factors would practically apply to improve the subject of any article, increase the knowledge pool.

        Others may disagree, but at least you would be a participant, not a Parrot!

        I'm waiting!
        • 8 Months Ago
        Gene, that's... just not true
        • 8 Months Ago
        Well spotted Gene!

        I thought I might take the opportunity to correct any misunderstanding my last post may have inadvertently have created.

        I think Dan Clouds vehicle is great! I think the work and accumulation of knowledge by enthusiasts, amateur conversion hobbyist's, and EV pioneers is valuable and admirable. I own two conversions myself, including a van and an MX-5.

        But, I just think that the day has finally arrived where mainstream developments and product are more pertinent to ABG.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Opps, I was constructing my comment when you posted above, carry on. Marco...

        Polo... ; )
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